McD much better D coordinator than Frazier

[DaggersEOD]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:02 PM, pi2000 said:

So if Wash scored 35 against the Broncos and 3 against the Bills, and Miami scored 70 aganst the Broncos.   

Then Miami should score 6 points against Buffalo.

That adds up 👍

[PatsFanNH]

13 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

New England’s defense is legit. Again, if the Bills do not turn the ball over they should have no problem with either game this year. The Bills have are more better than the Patriots have gotten more better, as teams.

Ok I am sick and have a raging headache so excuse me if this question seems odd.. but what are you trying to say in that last sentence? That the Bills improved more than the Patriots did?  Thanks!

[Scott7975]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:50 PM, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I'm not a Frazier fan at all, but I'm not ready to anoint McD as the second coming.  Let's see how it plays out.  He didn't exactly light the world on fire against the Jest and Zach Wilson.  Frazier was competent, but came up small in the biggest moments.  We'll have to see whether McD can turn that tendency around.

 

I disagree.  Josh gave them the ball 4 times and McD held them to 22 points.  Outside of the one big run, I thought the D played well.

[Rockinon]

9 sacks, 4 interceptions, a forced fumble and general havoc in the backfield all game......I'm in. Go McD!

[Alphadawg7]

NFL rankings:

2nd in points allowed per game:  11.7 (Cleveland is 10.7) 

1st in takeaways:  9

1st in Interceptions:  7

2nd in sacks:  12 (Steelers have 13)

 

I would say thats a pretty good start, and we still get Von Miller back too

Edited September 25, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Heathcliff]

And they held last year’s rushing leader to -2 yards….

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I disagree.  Josh gave them the ball 4 times and McD held them to 22 points.  Outside of the one big run, I thought the D played well.

And a miraculous catch. 

[DuckyBoys]

its a small sample but looks like McDermott's defense is more specific to its opponent and specifically the opposing qb  I swear we played the same under Frazier if it was a good qb or rookie jag   

[NoName]

Frazier gets so much bashing on this board.  The guy coordinated the number 1 defense not that long ago.  Plus he's had top 5 defenses with us at least twice and probably never had a defense worse than 15 with us.  I just dont think he deserves all of the bashing.  I am liking McDs play calling and I do prefer it over Frazier's . but it's only been 3 games and Frazier wasn't as bad as people make him out to be.

[Sierra Foothills]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:13 PM, somnus00 said:

Yet we always heard people saying that Frazier was running the defense that McDermott wanted. It's early in the season, but so far it looks like Frazier and McDermott have different philosophies.

 

I always felt it was more McDermott respecting Frasier's autonomy than Frasier running the defense that McDermott wanted. I believe McDermott wants to allow his coaches to coach... sometimes to his own detriment.

 

On 9/24/2023 at 2:17 PM, Blackbeard said:

This thread is so homerish 

 

And you were expecting???

 

On 9/24/2023 at 4:43 PM, JerseyBills said:

They almost take on the personality of the coordinator 

 

00Frasier was laid back , McDermott is high intensity and i think the defense takes on that identity to a certain extent 

 

Even outside of sports, workplaces take on the personality of their leader. I don't think there's any question that McDermott's intensity is making a big difference. In addition the defensive players are now being directly supervised by the head guy. That makes a difference too.

 

7 hours ago, wppete said:

I predict Leslie Frazier doesn’t return after his 1 year off 😂…. That whole story was so laughable but the media went for it. 

 

To spare Frasier's pride and dignity the Bills concocted this exit strategy and the media played along.

 

No one was fooled by the leave of absence story however there was nothing to be gained by refuting it.

 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

Spot on. We have the lowest blitz rate in the entire NFL.

 

Frazier blitzed on 19.4% of plays last season.

McDermott is blitzing on only 6.7% of plays this season.

We are not only being less aggressive, we are being significantly less aggressive. 65% less aggressive. 

 

Blitzing isn't the only way to judge aggression on defense. I hate that narrative. 

7 hours ago, wppete said:

I predict Leslie Frazier doesn’t return after his 1 year off 😂…. That whole story was so laughable but the media went for it. 

 

Who in the media actually said Frazier would return to the Bills? I don't recall anyone saying that. 

 

The Bills never did and the media never did. 

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Who in the media actually said Frazier would return to the Bills? I don't recall anyone saying that. 

 

The Bills never did and the media never did.

To be fair the way the Bills initially described him leaving was him deciding to take a year off which vaguely makes it seem like he'd be back.

[Einstein]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Blitzing isn't the only way to judge aggression on defense. I hate that narrative. 

 

What have you noticed schematically or otherwise that shows McDermott’s aggressiveness? Not arguing, just curious. My theory is that Bernards aggressive play style in the middle has swayed people into thinking the defense is being called more aggressively. I personally have noticed very little difference, schematically.

 

.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Einstein

[LABILLBACKER]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:33 PM, GerstAusGosheim said:

McDermott called the D during 13 seconds. 

Nobody knows that nor has it ever been confirmed. 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

To be fair the way the Bills initially described him leaving was him deciding to take a year off which vaguely makes it seem like he'd be back.

 

They said the day they announced it "we'll see" on would he be back. They have never said he'd be back here. They have said he isn't done coaching.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Nobody knows that nor has it ever been confirmed. 

 

I doubt the Bills would ever confirm that, but there was an NFL insider that said McDemott did take over defensive play calling in 13 seconds. Allegedly that was the beginning of the fracture between McD and Frazier. 

 

It could be BS, but just reminding you of where the poster may have gotten that info.

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What have you noticed schematically or otherwise that shows McDermott’s aggressiveness? Not arguing, just curious. My theory is that Bernards aggressive play style in the middle has swayed people into thinking the defense is being called more aggressively. I personally have noticed very little difference, schematically.

 

.

 

There is very little difference schematically. I told you all that all offseason. This idea that Frazier was running his own defense completely divorced from what McDermott believes in was foolish in the extreme. 

 

What I would say is I think Sean is a more aggressive playcaller. They have been running some more man on the outside (still primarily zone but they have mixed some more in) and they have been a bit more creative up front. I think a fair criticism of Leslie was that their pressure packages were a bit vanilla at times. We have already seen McDermott run 4 man rushes where Milano, Bernard or Taron are the 4th rusher and Greg or Floyd drops out and covers the flat. That kind of thing Leslie went to very sparingly but it was always there in their playbook Sean is just willing to call it more.

 

The biggest schematic difference is linebacker usage. And in 2020 when the D started slow and McDermott spent the bye week working with Frazier to change some things up we saw what we have seen so far this season too - Sean wants his linebackers to trigger downhill much faster. Leslie generally asked for a bit more read and react from his guys. It isn't a huge thing but I would expect the average depth of tackle from our linebackers this season to be less than it has been the last few years. He just wants them closer to the line and attacking the ball more quickly.

[wppete]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Blitzing isn't the only way to judge aggression on defense. I hate that narrative. 

 

Who in the media actually said Frazier would return to the Bills? I don't recall anyone saying that. 

 

The Bills never did and the media never did. 

NFL Network. Fox Sport. Colin Cowhert. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, wppete said:

NFL Network. Fox Sport. Colin Cowhert. 

 

I didn't see anyone on NFL Network say that. I can't speak for the other two. I tend to watch less Cowherd in the offseason.

[Warriorspikes51]

Let's revisit this after we face the Miami Rockets....

Elam needs to be on the field. He has 4.3 speed and can be rough with Hill to disrupt their timing routes

[BillsFanSD]

I have been pleasantly surprised with McDermott's performance so far.  I didn't expect him to fall on his face or anything like that, but there has been a clear improvement in the defense IMO, without any obvious corresponding drop-off in other areas.  Good for him.

 

Of course, this was against three sad-sack teams.  Let's hold off on the ticker-tape parades until we see how this defense holds up against the Dolphins and Chiefs.  

 

Also, one of my biggest fears here is not that McDermott will fail as a DC, but that his DC role will cause him to fail as a HC.  Specifically I am thinking ahead to a divisional playoff game against the Dolphins (or whoever) where we face 4th and 2 late in the fourth quarter nursing a 1-point lead.  Is McDermott going to be willing to put the game and a potential trip to the AFCCG in the hands of Josh Allen and Ken Dorsey -- who he cannot directly control -- or will he punt and put the game in the hands of his own unit?  We won't know the answer to that question until we get there.

[wppete]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't see anyone on NFL Network say that. I can't speak for the other two. I tend to watch less Cowherd in the offseason.

Well the definitely were. 

[Royale with Cheese]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is very little difference schematically. I told you all that all offseason. This idea that Frazier was running his own defense completely divorced from what McDermott believes in was foolish in the extreme. 

 

What I would say is I think Sean is a more aggressive playcaller. They have been running some more man on the outside (still primarily zone but they have mixed some more in) and they have been a bit more creative up front. I think a fair criticism of Leslie was that their pressure packages were a bit vanilla at times. We have already seen McDermott run 4 man rushes where Milano, Bernard or Taron are the 4th rusher and Greg or Floyd drops out and covers the flat. That kind of thing Leslie went to very sparingly but it was always there in their playbook Sean is just willing to call it more.

 

The biggest schematic difference is linebacker usage. And in 2020 when the D started slow and McDermott spent the bye week working with Frazier to change some things up we saw what we have seen so far this season too - Sean wants his linebackers to trigger downhill much faster. Leslie generally asked for a bit more read and react from his guys. It isn't a huge thing but I would expect the average depth of tackle from our linebackers this season to be less than it has been the last few years. He just wants them closer to the line and attacking the ball more quickly.

 

100% notice this both with the LB's and the DL.  It seems McDermott emphasizes the DL to be more aggressive attacking up front, maybe not worry much about lane or gap discipline....just use your physical ability to get through or past the OL.

[Bangarang]

This thread is going to be bonkers on Sunday. I hope it’s for a good reason 

[Simon]

Fwiw, I'm not seeing much difference at all in what McDermott is running vs what Frazier was running for McDermott.

If trends continue we'll see a fair amount more blitzing this weekend as the Bills have tended to really break out multiple blitz packages specifically against the Dolphins over the last several years.

 

From my perspective, the most glaring difference by far between McDermott's defense and Frazier's is that the Bills personnel is currently healthy.

[longtimebillsfan]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:02 PM, pi2000 said:

So if Wash scored 35 against the Broncos and 3 against the Bills, and Miami scored 70 aganst the Broncos.   

Then Miami should score 6 points against Buffalo.

The math doesn't lie.

 

Squish and embarass the fish!

[machine gun kelly]

25 minutes ago, Simon said:

Fwiw, I'm not seeing much difference at all in what McDermott is running vs what Frazier was running for McDermott.

If trends continue we'll see a fair amount more blitzing this weekend as the Bills have tended to really break out multiple blitz packages specifically against the Dolphins over the last several years.

 

From my perspective, the most glaring difference by far between McDermott's defense and Frazier's is that the Bills personnel is currently healthy.

Simon, it’s okay calling I’m seeing.  Not necessarily scheme, but application what they are doing.

 

yes, Floyd is better, but Bernard is playing exactly how McD wants him to play.  This is why I think our defense will give the fish some fits.  They’ll probably score 28, but not 70.

[Simon]

14 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

yes, Floyd is better, but Bernard is playing exactly how McD wants him to play.

 

The last time we saw Frazier's defense it was missing Hyde/DJones/Benford/JPhillips, had Poyer/Oliver/TWhite out there wrapped in duct tape and has also since added LFloyd and Bernard.

What they're putting out there now is a massive upgrade in skill over what we last saw out there under Frazier.

 

I won't argue against your point that they are now running similar schemes a bit more downhill, but imo that adjustment pales in comparison to the upgrade in healthy players on the field.

[colin]

the new mcd D is head and shoulders better than the old frazier d through the first 3 games, but clearly these are not great teams we are playing and it's just not enough of them, miami will give us a lot of data.

 

The d is more aggressive in that players are reacting and making decisions more quickly than they did under frasier.  even if the scheme and most of the play calls are similar to what frazier did, mcd is a superior coach because he has his guys better prepared, more confident, and they don't tend to spiral after bad beats (long run vs jets, the miracle td pass to wilson vs jets, the clock work drive vs raiders, etc) but under frazier they turned into a pumpkin in phases and for entire games at times.

 

now, miami might be more than they can handle, but i have a feeling the d will make plays to win the game.  

 

one thing we can say for certain, our d looked like it had a high priced DL and zero pass rush most of the time before, now the mcd coaching it directly, and still no von von, we are seeing maniac and screaming barbarians just pillaging all day.

[Kmart128]

My omly complaint is the gameplan has been pretty bad. Teams have been able to script a very good first drive on us. But McDermott has been awesome at making the adjustments after we see what the teams have been doing

[Gregg]

McDermott is going to be tested this week. If the Bills can keep the Fins to 28 points or less, I will say he did an excellent job. To ask the Bills defense to keep Miami under 20 is not realistic. I hope that happens, but I see a 34-30, 31-28 type of game. Similar to when the Dolphins and Chargers played. Back and forth with both teams putting up points.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

Fwiw, I'm not seeing much difference at all in what McDermott is running vs what Frazier was running for McDermott.

If trends continue we'll see a fair amount more blitzing this weekend as the Bills have tended to really break out multiple blitz packages specifically against the Dolphins over the last several years.

 

From my perspective, the most glaring difference by far between McDermott's defense and Frazier's is that the Bills personnel is currently healthy.

The near total lack of aggressive play by Fraziers “contain” style defenses especially the D-line, in comparison to what McDermott has them doing is a stark difference, kinda odd that you don’t see it, but whatevers…, 

[akcash]

Its early but so far so good.

[ngbills]

Lets see how they look this week. I dont count NYJ, LAV or WAS as good indicators of anything. We have allowed essentially the same amount of points as last year through 3 games but last year it was LAR, TEN, MIA and actually held them all to less yards than this year. People quickly forget...

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

Fwiw, I'm not seeing much difference at all in what McDermott is running vs what Frazier was running for McDermott.

If trends continue we'll see a fair amount more blitzing this weekend as the Bills have tended to really break out multiple blitz packages specifically against the Dolphins over the last several years.

 

From my perspective, the most glaring difference by far between McDermott's defense and Frazier's is that the Bills personnel is currently healthy.

 

I think they might not blitz as much this week. The book on Tua before they got Hill was blitz him but because Hill wins so early in routes that isn't the play now. I would be doing as suggested earlier... some 3 man pressures, drop guys out, try and flood zones confuse Tua and make him hold the football. But first you have to stop the run game and put the game on Tua cos that allows your linebackers and secondary players to really focus on playing the pass if you can get them out of their run game early.

41 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

The near total lack of aggressive play by Fraziers “contain” style defenses especially the D-line, in comparison to what McDermott has them doing is a stark difference, kinda odd that you don’t see it, but whatevers…, 

 

You need to be able to discern what is schematic and what is play calling. 

 

Scheme wise other than a tweak at linebacker to really get them going downhill and less read and react it is virtually identical. 

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

The last time we saw Frazier's defense it was missing Hyde/DJones/Benford/JPhillips, had Poyer/Oliver/TWhite out there wrapped in duct tape and has also since added LFloyd and Bernard.

What they're putting out there now is a massive upgrade in skill over what we last saw out there under Frazier.

 

I won't argue against your point that they are now running similar schemes a bit more downhill, but imo that adjustment pales in comparison to the upgrade in healthy players on the field.

 

This is 100% right.

[PatsFanNH]

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

NFL rankings:

2nd in points allowed per game:  11.7 (Cleveland is 10.7) 

1st in takeaways:  9

1st in Interceptions:  7

2nd in sacks:  12 (Steelers have 13)

 

I would say thats a pretty good start, and we still get Von Miller back too

This is the first real test for the Bills D. If they can keep Tua and company contained the Bills win.. (which I think will happen) but the key will be a full 60 minute effort because they can score in seconds. 

[Don Otreply]

57 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they might not blitz as much this week. The book on Tua before they got Hill was blitz him but because Hill wins so early in routes that isn't the play now. I would be doing as suggested earlier... some 3 man pressures, drop guys out, try and flood zones confuse Tua and make him hold the football. But first you have to stop the run game and put the game on Tua cos that allows your linebackers and secondary players to really focus on playing the pass if you can get them out of their run game early.

 

You need to be able to discern what is schematic and what is play calling. 

 

Scheme wise other than a tweak at linebacker to really get them going downhill and less read and react it is virtually identical. 

 

This is 100% right.

Scheme or play calling, the results thus far speak for themselves, ( yes i realize we won’t se very many nine sack games) Frazier was a contain first and second, attack third DC,  he coached in a scared to take a risk way and it really showed at crucial moments, imo its no surprise he was let go.

[Success]

I'm excited about the game Sunday.  As has been mentioned, we'll know what kind of D we have after this weekend.

 

I think this is the best defense we've had, and among the best in the league right now.  This is easily the best unit we have had in terms of putting pressure on opposing QB's.  

 

I think we're going to keep the Phins offense in check and win a game that will be close for awhile, but see the Bills pulling away in the 4th.  And gear up for the national hype train to jump a level come Monday.

 

 

[TwistofFate]

3 hours ago, Gregg said:

McDermott is going to be tested this week. If the Bills can keep the Fins to 28 points or less, I will say he did an excellent job. To ask the Bills defense to keep Miami under 20 is not realistic. I hope that happens, but I see a 34-30, 31-28 type of game. Similar to when the Dolphins and Chargers played. Back and forth with both teams putting up points.

It's realistic if we are firing on all 3 phases.  6 minute drives ending in TDs is great defense as well as offense. 

 

This team needs to be dialed in. This is huge game early on.  2-2 with Miami at 4-0, or 3-1 and 3-1 with head to head tie breaker. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:00 PM, Real McNasty said:

Already can't wait to see our D line against Miami next week. 

Not going to matter. It's one of the most frustrating things about playing the Dolphins. You might as well drop 8 because Tua is getting rid of that ball as soon as he takes the snap