Stop blaming Josh Allen

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm sure Allen is oblivious to the reaction as he should be.  My point is that the reaction is EXTREME and OVER THE TOP.  Obviously after a game like that fans will be pissed and they should be.  But just look at all the "Allen sucks" threads on 2BD and the vitriol being poured out in post after post after post for ONE bad performance in the season opener.  Frankly, it's psychotic.

 

 

No one is asking fans to appreciate Allen's sloppy play on Monday night.  But what we're seeing here goes way beyond a lack of appreciation.

 

 

 

It's not extreme or over the top.  It's the same stuff fans have posted on such boards all over the country since such places have existed.  This place is very tame--mods keep a solid grip on the language.

 

Anyway, fan support directly and indirectly pays Allen's astronomical salary to properly entertain them. They can say they want on a fan message board that he doesn't read.

 

Why pretend this isn't the case?

[DapperCam]

The majority (and most visible) of the bashing is coming from the national media. Not sure we can stop that.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

 

Allen has more ability, running and passing, but Kelly never had a fumble like that. It’s hard to understand from a guy who is the most talented and confident QB we ever had, but who also descends to a nearly Petermanesque level every so often.

 

Your post got me thinking about Kelly who is the best QB to ever play for the Bills. My recollection was that Kelly was a gunslinger who was often reckless with his passing and at times wildly inconsistent.  So I cracked open Sal Maiorana's wonderful book "Relentless" to see how Kelly was game to game during the Bills glory years from 1988 - 1993. What I found was that Kelly could be very "Petermanesque" at times.

 

First a couple of notes:

 

* I didn't look at Kelly's fumbles/rushing production because running the football is a huge part of Allen's game and not Kelly's. Sure Allen has lost a lot more fumbles then Kelly but he's also produced gob smacking rushing production that Kelly can't come close to matching.  So I focus on the passing stats here.

 

* I get it's a different era of football but by the late 80's offenses were beginning to dominate the game. But I would suggest that while Allen has benefited by the rule changes that is more then cancelled out by the fact that Kelly was surrounded by future HOF and yearly pro bowlers/all pros on the offense. Kelly had a lot more help on offense then Allen does.  So let's call it a wash.

 

From 1988 - 1993 Kelly threw 2 or more INT's in 26 regular season games out of a total of 96 regular season games.  That is one multi INT game every four games.  This was consistent throughout those 6 regular seasons.

 

Here's a sampling of some of Kelly's really bad regular season games which the Bills often lost but also won a surprisingly large amount of:

 

Bad Completion % (less then 50%) and/or low yardage games:

* 8/18 for 115 yrds

* 10/23 for 144 yrds

* 5/15 for 79 yrds

* 11/33

* 7/19 for 93 yrds

* 17/35

 

Lots of INT's not so many TD games:

* 3 INT/1TD

* 3 INT/1 TD

* 3 INT/2 TD

* 3 INT/0 TD

* 4 INT/1 TD (against the 3 - 8 Pats)

* 4 INT/1 TD

* 3 INT/0 TD

 

Special note was a 1991 game at home against the Bengals in which Kelly threw 3 INT's in the 1st quarter!  He then went on to have a monster game to win,

 

I won't spend much time on the playoffs/Super Bowls as we all know Kelly laid a couple of eggs in those games:

 

1988 - In 2 playoff games Kelly was 33/63 for 407 yards with 4 INT's & 1 TD.  This includes a 14/30, 163 yrd with 3 INT/1 TD AFC championship game. If Allen had back to back playoff games like this today we would be screaming for he Bills to draft a new QB in the off season.

 

1991 - Kelly was 13/25 for 117 yrds & 2 INT's in the AFC championship game at Rich Stadium.  The O did not score a TD. The Bills won 10 - 7 on the back of their D.  How many times has Allen sucked and the Bills won on the back of their D?

 

That year also saw Kelly's worst Super Bowl performance where he attempted 58 passes and gained only 275 yards and threw 4 INT's against 2 garbage time TD's.

 

Bottom line Kelly should thank his lucky stars that Social Media and an over abundance of National Football Media exports weren't around during those years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[Dopey]

Love Josh and I’m glad he’s our qb, but he’s been coddled enough by the “Josh is God” crew. Time to take the kid gloves off and treat him like any other Bill. Edmunds was not the reason we haven’t made it to a SB, but that didn’t stop the mob. Josh shouldn’t be babied anymore. If this runs him out of town…sayonara. 
He’s not going anywhere and he’s going to turn it around this week vs the Raiders. Hopefully he just gets to work and not soak up the accolades when we win. 

[McBean]

13 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Fans, players and his own coaches bashing him is not a good look. You are going to drive him out of town. He is the best QB we ever had imo, definitely since Jim Kelly. I blame the coaches, we need an offensive minded head coach. Imagine if Kyle Shannan had Josh Allen, we need a guy like that. That’s the only way we will finally get that Super Bowl, defense doesn’t win championships anymore. McDermott has to go!

Spot on

[CincyBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's not extreme or over the top.  It's the same stuff fans have posted on such boards all over the country since such places have existed.  This place is very tame--mods keep a solid grip on the language.

 

Anyway, fan support directly and indirectly pays Allen's astronomical salary to properly entertain them. They can say they want on a fan message board that he doesn't read.

 

Why pretend this isn't the case?

First, this place is tame because the majority of posters are great and the MODS do keep most of the wack jobs away.  The good posters can be critical of Allen but they also share interesting insight and some have a sharp sense of humor.  Most importantly they know how to structure their criticisms with the proper context. My pet peeve is the relentless negativism and spite directed at Allen whenever he has a bad game. Hell it's often directed at the guy when he has just an average game.  It IS over the top.

 

Second, I don't care what other goofy fan bases do on other message boards.  2BD takes up more then enough of my time.

 

Third, I'm not saying people can't be negative Nellie's and over react and direct spiteful attacks at Allen.  Go for it if that's what floats your boat.  It's a free country. But why do you guys get upset and want to shut those of us up when we react by defending Allen and trying to place some context around his games & performances?

 

Why are you pretending that this ISN'T a two way street?

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Love Josh and I’m glad he’s our qb, but he’s been coddled enough by the “Josh is God” crew. Time to take the kid gloves off and treat him like any other Bill. Edmunds was not the reason we haven’t made it to a SB, but that didn’t stop the mob. Josh shouldn’t be babied anymore. If this runs him out of town…sayonara. 
He’s not going anywhere and he’s going to turn it around this week vs the Raiders. Hopefully he just gets to work and not soak up the accolades when we win. 

Who is saying "Josh is God"?  You throw that out there with no evidence to back it up.  Allen takes more criticism then any other Bill and he's the best player on the team.  Oh wait, is calling Allen the best player on the team the same as calling him a God?

 

Edmunds had what, ONE thread that attacked him, often unfairly.  How many does Allen have right now on 2BD attacking him?

 

I agree that Edmunds wasn't the reason we haven't won a SB.  But Allen handed the Bills franchise a golden opportunity to win a SB in 2021 with his lights out play.  And over the next 5 years he will do it again, probably a couple of more times and maybe this season. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

I would love nothing more than Kyle *Shanahan as HC of this team, but Josh Allen is not above criticism.  He is no different than any other QB in football. 

 

He needs to cut down on the turnovers.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[Mark92]

I am one of the biggest fans and supporters of Josh Allen.  We finally have our Franchise QB who is capable of winning League MVP and bringing us our coveted Super Bowl Championship.  It's also ok to say the man sucked against the Jets.  He really sucked and looked like a damn fool.  He will come out of this because it's what he does.  Go Bills. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Mark92

[Mc1320]

He has the most turnovers of any QB since 2018……..and his poor decision making lost us the game Monday night.

 

If he was showing signs of improvement in this area it would be one thing but he is not, so the criticism is justified…

[BreezeMafia]

14 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Fans, players and his own coaches bashing him is not a good look. You are going to drive him out of town. He is the best QB we ever had imo, definitely since Jim Kelly. I blame the coaches, we need an offensive minded head coach. Imagine if Kyle Shannan had Josh Allen, we need a guy like that. That’s the only way we will finally get that Super Bowl, defense doesn’t win championships anymore. McDermott has to go!

The same Kyle Shanahan who, while an OC for Atlanta, calls a pass on 3rd and 2 vs. running against the Pats to close the Super Bowl out??????

[blitzboy54]

LEAVE BRITTNY ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

sniff

[BigDingus]

"Stop blaming the guy I like!"

 

"Blame these other scapegoats instead!" 

 

That's the OP in a nutshell. You're a complete fool if you think those throws or that fumble was the coaching staff.

 

You're also a fool if you think Josh Allen is the NFL leader in turnovers the last 4 years because of someone else's fault.

 

I'm so freaking sick of seeing the "blame anyone *BUT* the guy who had the most to do with it!"

 

Thankfully, the rest of the NFL community who aren't complete homers know the truth, including Josh himself. You can deflect all you want, but your "blame the other people" narrative falls on deaf ears after so many years of seeing this play.

 

Allen's a talented QB, and we all love him, but he's a Rollercoaster. And it's also why he's not in that Mahomes tier. 

[benderbender]

38 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't care what other goofy fan bases do on other message boards.  2BD takes up more then enough of my time.

You don't have to, but it's good for the soul. You'll find that other fanbases (Bears and Raiders I've seen recently) are marinating in caustic cynicism that the naysayers on this board could only dream of attaining the recipe for. It actually makes our weekly fire McD threads seem classy. 

[Heavy Kevi]

14 hours ago, SCBills said:

I’ve been high enough on Allen that I think he’s the most naturally talented QB in the NFL, but due to those gifts, that’s also why he’s receiving the harsh criticism this week…

 

The typical talking head nonsense was going to come regardless.   They have a clickbait job to do. 
 

What he’s getting that’s different is the old “I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed” vibe aimed at him from some of the more nuanced and respectable talking heads. 
 

The fact he is so talented, but (so far) just doesn’t seem to get it.   He does whatever he wants to do with zero regard for his body and/or what he does to hurt the team when he gets bored or frustrated. 
 

That’s not professional QB’ing.  That’s immature and selfish. 
 

It’s on him to change it.  Apparently nobody, except maybe Daboll, can get through to him. 

 

Agree with most of this except bolded. Daboll may have been the only one so far, but you can't make that statement because we haven't tried. We moved Josh's buddy QB coach to oc and that's it. We know McD and dorsey can't get through to him and that's ALL we know.

 

Maybe the next OC, or the next HC can (and there will be other OCs and HCs), but we can't say with any confidence that "nobody... can get through to him"

 

The first person we put with Josh did get through to him. The second didn't. Hardly a "welp, Josh be Josh" type situation.

 

The 100% certain thing right now is Josh is the most important person in that building more important than McD, beane, Terry... Everyone. 5 years from now most of the players will be gone but Josh will remain. It's on coaching, management, and ultimately ownership to put competent leadership around him with no regard for anyone else's feelings or job security. If (when) McD likely replaces Dorsey after this year, if he can't find a suitable replacement, it's time for McD to go. If beane doesn't properly address McD when it's time, beane needs to go, etc.

 

I like McD and beane but there is NOBODY who should be immune from accountability. You have a unicorn QB that needs structure. Give him that structure or get TF out of the way for someone who can.

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's not extreme or over the top.  It's the same stuff fans have posted on such boards all over the country since such places have existed.  This place is very tame--mods keep a solid grip on the language.

 

Anyway, fan support directly and indirectly pays Allen's astronomical salary to properly entertain them. They can say they want on a fan message board that he doesn't read.

 

Why pretend this isn't the case?

Agreed. Getting criticized is part of the package deal that also includes incredible wealth and fame. 

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm sure Allen is oblivious to the reaction as he should be.  My point is that the reaction is EXTREME and OVER THE TOP.  Obviously after a game like that fans will be pissed and they should be.  But just look at all the "Allen sucks" threads on 2BD and the vitriol being poured out in post after post after post for ONE bad performance in the season opener.  Frankly, it's psychotic.

 

 

 

 

 

It’s actually very normal! You should have seen Patriots sites after Brady stunk against KC or when he played poorly against Baltimore. Fans were calling for his head.  Fans are FANATICS.. they over react.. always have always will. 
 

As for the talking heads, being negative gets them more ratings brings more money for them. For an example a certain Talking head who for like 10 years said Brady was done and no good anymore.. 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Who is saying "Josh is God"?  You throw that out there with no evidence to back it up.  Allen takes more criticism then any other Bill and he's the best player on the team.  Oh wait, is calling Allen the best player on the team the same as calling him a God?

 

Edmunds had what, ONE thread that attacked him, often unfairly.  How many does Allen have right now on 2BD attacking him?

 

I agree that Edmunds wasn't the reason we haven't won a SB.  But Allen handed the Bills franchise a golden opportunity to win a SB in 2021 with his lights out play.  And over the next 5 years he will do it again, probably a couple of more times and maybe this season. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve read plenty of posts calling him a god, a Superman, etc. Not throwing it out there blindly. 
Allen takes more criticism than any other Bill?!? Unless you’re referring to this week, that’s BS. 
Did Allen hand us a golden opportunity? sure. He also laid a big fat egg vs Cincy. last year. 
There were numerous Edmunds bashing threads  and posts here. Of course Allen apologists will gloss over this. 
Diggs gets crap for calling out Josh(deservedly so) and Allen is babied here. He finally gets put in the category of someone who needs to do better and his crew cries fowl. You should follow your leader’s example and place blame where it lies. He did. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

15 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Fans, players and his own coaches bashing him is not a good look. You are going to drive him out of town. He is the best QB we ever had imo, definitely since Jim Kelly. I blame the coaches, we need an offensive minded head coach. Imagine if Kyle Shannan had Josh Allen, we need a guy like that. That’s the only way we will finally get that Super Bowl, defense doesn’t win championships anymore. McDermott has to go!

This is sarcasm right?

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

First, this place is tame because the majority of posters are great and the MODS do keep most of the wack jobs away.  The good posters can be critical of Allen but they also share interesting insight and some have a sharp sense of humor.  Most importantly they know how to structure their criticisms with the proper context. My pet peeve is the relentless negativism and spite directed at Allen whenever he has a bad game. Hell it's often directed at the guy when he has just an average game.  It IS over the top.

 

Second, I don't care what other goofy fan bases do on other message boards.  2BD takes up more then enough of my time.

 

Third, I'm not saying people can't be negative Nellie's and over react and direct spiteful attacks at Allen.  Go for it if that's what floats your boat.  It's a free country. But why do you guys get upset and want to shut those of us up when we react by defending Allen and trying to place some context around his games & performances?

 

Why are you pretending that this ISN'T a two way street?

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a 2 way street.  So let people say what they want.  It doesn't hurt Josh Allen (it will not "drive him out of town").  

 

No one is saying he's a bad person.  None it is "spite".  Bad takes always exist.  Don't let it hurt you.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Mark92 said:

I am one of the biggest fans and supporters of Josh Allen.  We finally have our Franchise QB who is capable of winning League MVP and bringing us our coveted Super Bowl Championship.  It's also ok to say the man sucked against the Jets.  He really sucked and looked like a damn fool.  He will come out of this because it's what he does.  Go Bills. 

 

he's had this issue since the middle of last season.  It's systemic by this point.  If he doesn't snap out of it soon, Dorsey and/or McD need to go, because ultimately with a talent like JA, the coaching staff needs to figure out how to maximize it.  

[Mr. WEO]

56 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Agreed. Getting criticized is part of the package deal that also includes incredible wealth and fame. 

 

People take this stuff personally---which is so bizarre.  Do they really think this bothers the leader of a team?  He absolutely knows (they all do) that heat comes after a tough loss.  

 

He's a big boy making lots of money.  These criticisms don't affect him.  Why would posters feel affected?  It's creepy.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

I’ve read plenty of posts calling him a god, a Superman, etc. Not throwing it out there blindly. 
Allen takes more criticism than any other Bill?!? Unless you’re referring to this week, that’s BS. 
Did Allen hand us a golden opportunity? sure. He also laid a big fat egg vs Cincy. last year. 
There were numerous Edmunds bashing threads  and posts here. Of course Allen apologists will gloss over this. 
Diggs gets crap for calling out Josh(deservedly so) and Allen is babied here. He finally gets put in the category of someone who needs to do better and his crew cries fowl. You should follow your leader’s example and place blame where it lies. He did. 

Allen laid the same egg against the Bengals that the entire team laid.  Allen would have had to be at his best to beat Cincy last season and even then I'm not sure the Bills win.  But to me this is a prime example of the type of posts that I'm complaining about.  The notion that Allen lost the Bengals game.  It's wrong IMO.

[Mango]

6 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

I think it’s because it’s genuinely confusing. The kinds of mistakes Josh makes when he’s in that fog are such total blunders—dropping the snap, then picking it up and immediately running into the line, fumbling it again—almost moronic looking.
 

Allen has more ability, running and passing, but Kelly never had a fumble like that. It’s hard to understand from a guy who is the most talented and confident QB we ever had, but who also descends to a nearly Petermanesque level every so often.

 

 

The Josh Allen ride is such a rollercoaster,, it is addicting. It seems like every year, no matter how high he raises the bar he still has the ability to have these basement games. The constant thread of huge amounts of turnovers and mental gaffes is concerning. 

I get the comparison to Favre. I have even made it. The playing style certainly has a lot of similarities at times. But one thing to take into account is that even with all of that, by the time Favre finished his 6th year with Green Bay (7th in the league) he had won 3x NFL MVP's, 3x AP First Team All-Pro, played in 2x SB's, and won 1. His HoF jacket was sized up before he stepped under center in season 8. Josh has a lot of catch up to do to Brett Favre. 

IMO Allen still has a ceiling of Favre with a couple of championship seasons strung together and maybe an overall floor of Stafford if he never went to Detroit. A good comp might be Eli Manning who had lots and lots of success, but tons of ups and downs. That means Josh is still really good. But there will always be some fan frustration. Unless he puts a hot streak like Favre's together he'll never get the "one bad game" benefit of the doubt like Brady and Manning. It seems as though some fans expect this and that just isn't the way the league has ever worked. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Mango

[CodeMonkey]

16 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Fans, players and his own coaches bashing him is not a good look. You are going to drive him out of town. He is the best QB we ever had imo, definitely since Jim Kelly. I blame the coaches, we need an offensive minded head coach. Imagine if Kyle Shannan had Josh Allen, we need a guy like that. That’s the only way we will finally get that Super Bowl, defense doesn’t win championships anymore. McDermott has to go!

FFS, Allen SUCKED. Everyone knows it,  including him.  He is not some little sissy that is going to take his ball and go elsewhere because people state the obvious.  Get over it and move on.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

he's had this issue since the middle of last season.  It's systemic by this point.  If he doesn't snap out of it soon, Dorsey and/or McD need to go, because ultimately with a talent like JA, the coaching staff needs to figure out how to maximize it.  

 

I think part of the trigger is fear and a lot of it.  He entered the league this way. His first season and a good portion of his second were full of these bonkers moment. The Houston game is a great example. That was totally absurd. Then we saw this epic leap in 2021, the 13 seconds game, and everything changed. We thought we had THE GUY. Buffalo had arrived. And we have to a certain extent. 

 

 Mahomes is hands down "THE GUY". There is no 1a/1b conversation anymore. You start to have smart QB's like Warner go "Allen is great but decision making can be really bad", but you write it off because of this stretch in 2021. Then you have this very weird second half of the season where the game starts to be such a struggle for him again. There aren't moments anymore, there are halves of games, or a whole game, or a stretch of games.

 

The fan base isn't hating Allen. They don't want to run him out of town. Their criticisms are all valid. The stuff people are seeing are correct. It is erratic and careless at times. The collective "negative" voice around Allen right now is critical, but the emotion behind it isn't "You suck". They mean "Please don't hurt me!". 

[PBF81]

17 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Fans, players and his own coaches bashing him is not a good look. You are going to drive him out of town. He is the best QB we ever had imo, definitely since Jim Kelly. I blame the coaches, we need an offensive minded head coach. Imagine if Kyle Shannan had Josh Allen, we need a guy like that. That’s the only way we will finally get that Super Bowl, defense doesn’t win championships anymore. McDermott has to go!

 

Here's the thing, everyone always chides others for not being coaches or "experts" otherwise, but this is not complicated and it's mystifying as to why it hasn't been corrected.

 

I mean how difficult is it, Allen's very intelligent.  

 

You sit him down, show him the litany of plays on which he went deep with wide open guys underneath, and on the wings/flats, OTM, etc.;  reiterate to him why a simple 1st-Down is adequate;  explain that there's far less risk on those throws;  and tell him that's how all the greats got great and how you want him to do it, in the best interests of the team.  

 

Either that's been done, or it hasn't. 

 

If it has and he's ignoring it, then that's on him.  He's not so stupid that he doesn't get it.  It's trivial and fundamental.  

 

If it hasn't, then whiskey tango foxtrot.  

 

Before all of this came out, I was prepared to compile a running season long video of all the plays that he did that, which, while not the intent, could have easily served as a coaching tool in that regard.  But I'm no expert in that way, I've never coached college or pro ball.  

 

The point is that it should be far from difficult to correct, it shouldn't require Don Shula or Bill Walsh to correct.

 

My only question is why is this an issue in Allen's 6th season.  That would seem to reflect directly on coaching.   

 

As to the heat he's taking, it'll happen.  He'll be a hero when it doesn't.  But that's not the core issue and it will cost the team in the playoffs when our D goes on vacation.  

 

... which would also implicate coaching for that matter.  

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by PBF81

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

he's had this issue since the middle of last season.  It's systemic by this point.  If he doesn't snap out of it soon, Dorsey and/or McD need to go, because ultimately with a talent like JA, the coaching staff needs to figure out how to maximize it.  

 

He's had the issue otherwise as well, it did not begin last season. He did it in 2020 to albeit to a lesser extent.  That's when I began contemplating putting together a running montage of it.  It was annoying to watch.  

 

It's beyond mind-boggling that the issue still exists on his watch and in McD's 6th season and Allen's 5th and with two different OCs now.  For any astute observer the reason why should be clear, there's only one commonality in the scenario. 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by PBF81

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

People take this stuff personally---which is so bizarre.  Do they really think this bothers the leader of a team?  He absolutely knows (they all do) that heat comes after a tough loss.  

 

He's a big boy making lots of money.  These criticisms don't affect him.  Why would posters feel affected?  It's creepy.

 

Agreed. Most fans project how they’d feel. They don’t understand that players who let fan criticism negatively affect them are quickly out of the league. If Allen doesn’t succeed it won’t be because of anything said by fans on a message board or the media. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Not combing through 8 pages so apologies if already posted, but…

 

Anyone else read the title in the “Leave Brittney Alone!” person’s voice?

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Not combing through 8 pages so apologies if already posted, but…

 

Anyone else read the title in the “Leave Brittney Alone!” person’s voice?

It was also my first thought when I read the OP. 

[Brand J]

Don’t know if it’s been posted, but Broussard’s take on Allen’s presser after the game was hilarious (3:48). 
 

First Things First

[Max Fischer]

I'm betting this is just a troll, but I'll still say, I'm a huge believer in Josh Allen, but he shares the most blame for the loss.  If he played just OK, the Bills could have won. 

[Toyo321]

17 hours ago, Chaos said:

Game had five awful plays in regulation:
 

1. Int by allen
2. Int by allen
3. fumble by allen
4. 83 yard defensive collapse
5. Bad decision to decline a penalty and concede 3 points to to the Jets

There was also another interception by allen that had the same consequencence as if he had thrown it way, and then we punted.  Didn't really alter the game. 

Despite these five awful plays the team played well enough to tie the game in regulation.  
In a fact based world, Allens regulation performance resulted in a tie.  To reiterate, at the end of regulation the game was tied. This cannot be disputed.  All of the turnovers and other bad plays did not lead to a win.  It also did not lead to a loss. 

The overtime was a complete shitshow, the team choked massively and the team lost the game collectively. 
 

Yeah we were lucky as hell even to get that tie,   Doink!!!!  Off the post and luckily through the uprights.  90% of the time that kick fails to go in.  This is football not hockey. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Toyo321

[4merper4mer]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Drive him out of town?  

 

Where do fans appreciate sloppy QB play?  Cleveland is tied up with Watson for years...

At least you have Zappe hour to fall back on.

[zow2]

On The Herd show today, James Jones said Allen's turnover issues cannot be corrected.  This is Josh.  He used his experiences with Brett Favre and described the "gunslinger" mentality as basically meaning "careless with the football".  He said the good outweighs the bad so Josh should be OK but don't expect the turnovers to just dramatically slow down or cease to happen.

Edited September 15, 2023 by zow2

[Toyo321]

 

Maybe we just need a coach that shows some passion and anger when it's deserved and appropriate.

Instead of the clappy...happy....itis syndrome that we get now.

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

34 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Don’t know if it’s been posted, but Broussard’s take on Allen’s presser after the game was hilarious (3:48). 
 

First Things First

Its perfect. Allen acts like he had no control when HE is the one that did it. These were conscious decisions. Look Fans, Media, coaches, hell Peyton Manning are tired of hearing it. Fix it, don't talk about it anymore, just fix it.

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

On The Herd show today, James Jones said Allen's turnover issues cannot be corrected.  This is Josh.  He used his experiences with Brett Favre and described the "gunslinger" mentality as basically meaning "careless with the football".  He said the good outweighs the bad so Josh should be OK but don't expect the turnovers to just dramatically slow down or cease to happen.

Scorpion and the Turtle (or Frog). He is what he is. He is going to do better than not, but he is going to cost us games, he just can't help himself.  At this point, hell, just implement Mouse Davis' Run and Shoot offense and be done with it.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

he's had this issue since the middle of last season.  It's systemic by this point.  If he doesn't snap out of it soon, Dorsey and/or McD need to go, because ultimately with a talent like JA, the coaching staff needs to figure out how to maximize it.  

 

I'd like to raise to your attention the Curious Case of Carson Wentz

 

Very promising 1st 2 years in the league.  Team is 11-2 with him his 2nd season, wins Superbowl after he's injured.  Doug Pederson, Frank Reich, John DeFilippo as QB coach. 

 

Loses Reich AND DeFilippo before next season, replaced with Mike Groh and Press Taylor.  Plays well but is injured again next season, signed to a big contract while his backup Nick Foles is shown the door. 

 

Following year, Wentz puts up good numbers and wins Comeback Player of the Year his 4th but...things aren't all well.  Not as many YPG as one might like, team record of 9-7 so not as many wins.  There is chatter about Wentz getting a full of himself, demanding an extended warmup routine and starting to object to criticism.  And there is criticism, for his reckless style of play and passing up quick, short targets in favor of lower percentage riskier throws.

 

Next year, Pederson takes over as OC trying to "right the ship" and Wentz goes to hell in a handcart.  Completion % tanks, Ints soar, YPG plummet.  Eventually, Wentz gets benched for Hurts, Pederson gets fired, and Wentz gets  traded to Indy where he reunites with...Frank Reich but a new OC Marcus Brady.

 

Wentz plays better than the previous year in terms of avoiding INTs, but the passing production is not there (200 ypg) and the Colts barely eke out a winning season.    Again, there is talk of issues with Wentz taking coaching/criticism and maintaining a reckless style of play that cost the Colts games.

 

Following year, Wentz gets shipped off to Washington where he has different coaches (Scott Taylor, Ken Zampese).  Wentz continues his struggles with not enough passing production and reckless play.  Taylor Heineke outplays him, and Wentz is now "footloose and fancy free", out of a job at present.

 

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Why am I bringing this up here?  Because when Wentz started to struggle with reckless play and poor passing production (passing up open targets in favor of low percentage, riskier throws, more INT), he got exactly what you suggest Allen needs - new coaches.  Several times.  And it didn't help.

 

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The solution to Josh Allen, is between Josh Allen's ears.  If Josh is self-aware (he seems to be) and truly wants to right his ship and turn things around, he can probably do it with whatever coaches are around.  But if he doesn't. new coaches aren't necessarily going to help him.

 

 

 

 

[MJS]

Winning cures everything. If Josh goes out and has a good game and brings home the win, the criticism will reduce. If he strings together a bunch of good games, like we know he can, the criticism will be a distant memory.

 

It's up to him to do that.