Benford - Was he being showcased? (Opinion, not a rumor)

[Simon Says]

4 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

I think if a trade is made there it is Elam in a player-for-player trade. He would have better value. I could see Beane targeting a recent first round OT or ML that someone else feels has underperformed their draft status and swinging that trade.

I think Benford is the week 1 starter across from Tre.

Elam would be attractive to a team that plays man defense. I wonder who that might be?

[BigAl2526]

Benford is not going anywhere.  He's got nice size for a CB and better athleticism than Jackson.  You have to give Jackson a lot of credit for sticking with the Bills and contributing, but his ceiling, like Levi Wallace's ceiling, is still limited by the lack of athleticism.  Benford doesn't have Kaiir Elam's athleticism, but he has enough to be a quality starting CB in an NFL zone defense.  His college background and football intelligence has kept him ahead of Elam.  That's not going to change in the near term.  Right now, Benford is the second best outside CB on the team.  The Bills aren't so foolish as to get rid of that at the start of the season.  

 

I don't know what the future holds for Elam.  I think he is a good CB.  Whether or not he can become fully comfortable in a zone defense is impossible to predict.  I think he sticks around this season.  Next season, depending on what happens with the CBs, someone could be trade bait, but I don't see it happening in the near term.

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to trade him either.  Just seemed like Dane was the clear leader at CB2 all preseason and had played good throughout camp.  So Benford making a last minute leap frog just seemed a bit unusual given Dane did nothing to lose it.  And Beane has showcased players before in preseason before trading them (as do many GMs), so it made me wonder did he really pass Dane, or were they seeing if he might garner some trade value if they decide to move one.

 

But my personal stance has been keep all of them and that’s what I hope happens.  

I agree. We need depth at that position. Tre is getting older as well. The secondary is likely the strength of the defense especially if Poyer and Hyde are fully back. I think Benford is a bright young talent. Keep him. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Benford is a late round gem. Both safeties are likely gone after this year. We really don't know how White will rebound this year. Keep all 4 CBs for 2023 and see how the season unfolds. Right now the depth is far more important than a draft pick next year. 

[Mat68]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Benford is a late round gem. Both safeties are likely gone after this year. We really don't know how White will rebound this year. Keep all 4 CBs for 2023 and see how the season unfolds. Right now the depth is far more important than a draft pick next year. 

Benford is a better scheme fit but less an athlete than Elam.  I think you keep both.  Elam gives Mcdermott scheme flexibility.  Match ups and even situations you want to play man Elam will be used.  Seems like Elam isnt the best practice player but game day he seemed to play well.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Benford is a better scheme fit but less an athlete than Elam.  I think you keep both.  Elam gives Mcdermott scheme flexibility.  Match ups and even situations you want to play man Elam will be used.  Seems like Elam isnt the best practice player but game day he seemed to play well.  

Agree. Still don't trust McD to play the right guys. 

In the end if White is solid any of these three guys will be fine at CB#2. 

Wonder who is the backup for Taron Johnson?? Do they go with Jackson or Elam if Benford starts, or does nickel go to Rapp or a guy like Neal. 

[MasterStrategist]

28 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Agree. Still don't trust McD to play the right guys. 

In the end if White is solid any of these three guys will be fine at CB#2. 

Wonder who is the backup for Taron Johnson?? Do they go with Jackson or Elam if Benford starts, or does nickel go to Rapp or a guy like Neal. 

Neal for certain, he looked much improved in preseason too

[QLBillsFan]

Why would the Bills trade a cb ? A critical position where depth is required.

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Let me clarify...I am not advocating to trade him or even saying he is for sure being traded.  Unlike many others, I am not concerned with the 3 way log jam at CB2 because I love having the depth, especially given the injury issues we have had at times at CB and the number of high level WR groupings we will face both in regular season and playoffs.  IMO, you can never have too many good CB's.  

 

BUT...we have a roster that isn't easy to make and we may need to make some tough decisions in places on players at various positions.  Plus Beane loves and needs more draft capital given our tight cap for the foreseeable future.  So, I don't think anyone would be surprised if Beane traded a player or two either for both roster space and gaining more draft capital.  

 

So why do I think Benford might be one of those players...2 main reasons:  

1. Beane already knows he has trade value and teams are interested given he was getting calls last year for Benford and he has only increased his value since then.  
2. His surprising start - In a 3 man battle at CB2, Dane was the clear leader in the race, and in the game where most starters played, Benford gets the start.

 

So this begs the question why did Benford start?

1.  Was it because he passed Dane?  Doubt it, Dane has not only been leading in the battle, but done nothing to lose his spot either as he has played well all camp and preseason and there is nothing Benford really does that Dane can't do.  
2. Was it to just give him his chance to "start" in the 3 CB race?  Doubt it because they did not do that with Elam who didn't start any preseason game despite being in the race to "start".  So there isn't a pattern of consistency there if they were all going to equally get that chance.
3. OR...Was it to showcase Benford, potentially increase his value as showing him as a possible starter and see what kind of trade interest it might create?  

 

Well, for me personally, I think it may be to showcase him to see what kind of trade interest and potential compensation it might create if he showed well, which he did.  This also tracks with what Beane has done in the past as well and its a common tactic when teams are considering a trade during preseason as well.  So while others are focusing on what Benfords start meant for Elam, I think it may be less about Elam and more about Benford and seeing what kind of trade value a good showing might drum up.  

 

I don't think Beane would "dump" any of the CB's for cheap if teams call, so I don't think he is say aggressively shopping him or trying to dump him.  But I think Benford starting may have been to try and increase his value for any calls he may get or already have gotten on one of our CB's.  To me I think it shows that maybe Benford of the 3 is the one he would be more willing to trade for the right offer.  And teams are always lookin for CB's, so I would suspect Beane will get some calls this year on one of them, if he hasn't already.

 

So while I like Benford and personally prefer to keep all 4 CB's (Tre, Dane, Elam, Benford) for depth, this feels like he was just showcased to maybe gauge trade interest and value.  And if Beane gets an offer he feels is good value for him, I think it might result in Benford being on the move.  

Alpha, you know I like you bud, but we have to have 4 good options at outside corner.  We also need a backup slot which Rapp can somewhat fill as welll as backup Hyde and Poyer.

 

we’re going to keep more, but I’d never move in from Benford, Elam, or Dane.  There’s a good chance Benford starts week 1.

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Agree. Still don't trust McD to play the right guys. 

In the end if White is solid any of these three guys will be fine at CB#2. 

Wonder who is the backup for Taron Johnson?? Do they go with Jackson or Elam if Benford starts, or does nickel go to Rapp or a guy like Neal. 

 

Neal is the backup nickel. Could I see a situation where they use Dane there some if Benford has sealed the CB2 job? Sure. But I think Neal would get first run.

[eball]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Still don't trust McD to play the right guys. 

 

I'll never understand comments like this.  The man has had more success running NFL defenses than you could ever dream of...but YOU don't "trust" him to play the right players.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I'll never understand comments like this.  The man has had more success running NFL defenses than you could ever dream of...but YOU don't "trust" him to play the right players.

 

 

So I think it is fair to acknowledge that coaches don't have to be right on every decision they make. Nor do GMs. The game isn't that much of a science. Really experienced and talented people can and do screw up in almost all walks of life. 

 

But I can't help but agree that when a poster takes it from the specific to the abstract (i.e. not "he is screwing up not playing player X" to "I don't trust him to play the right guys") then you have to look at McDermott's overall record in this league as a DC and a HC and say the evidence would suggest he overwhelmingly does play the right guys.

[eball]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I think it is fair to acknowledge that coaches don't have to be right on every decision they make. Nor do GMs. The game isn't that much of a science. Really experienced and talented people can and do screw up in almost all walks of life. 

 

But I can't help but agree that when a poster takes it from the specific to the abstract (i.e. not "he is screwing up not playing player X" to "I don't trust him to play the right guys") then you have to look at McDermott's overall record in this league as a DC and a HC and say the evidence would suggest he overwhelmingly does play the right guys.

 

That's ok...Ethan will just label me a "homer" (as if that's an insult) and say I don't think McD should ever be criticized.  Of course that's not the case, but I've grown used to it.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by eball

[mrags]

Maybe it’s more along the line that they want to be sure they have a legitimate starter opposite Tre and if they are comfortable with Benford and Elam as starter and backup in any capacity. They maybe trade Jackson. 

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

That's ok...Ethan will just label me a "homer" (as if that's an insult) and say I don't think McD should ever be criticized.  Of course that's not the case, but I've grown used to it.

 

 

Pfffft. Homer 

[MasterStrategist]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Neal is the backup nickel. Could I see a situation where they use Dane there some if Benford has sealed the CB2 job? Sure. But I think Neal would get first run.

I don't think Dane has ever played nickel.

 

I still think we find a way to keep Cam, solving our 3rd nickel (break glass option).  Potentially Ingram if we can keep on p/s

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I don't think Dane has ever played nickel.

 

I still think we find a way to keep Cam, solving our 3rd nickel (break glass option).  Potentially Ingram if we can keep on p/s

 

He hasn't as far as I am aware but I remember he worked there for teams at the Senior Bowl practices the year he came out and there were a lot who saw him as a nickel. I think I recall the Bills worked him there in camp some as a rookie too. If my memory is serving me well that was the year Josh Norman as here with Levi and Tre as the top 3 outside guys and they worked Dane both inside and out. So while he has never done it in a game that I am aware of it is something people have always felt him capable of. 

 

I think you are right it would be Neal in first and then and Ingram / Lewis PS call up. But I think if Taron were to miss serious time they might ask themselves "why are we not putting our best 3 guys out there?" And if Benford has locked down the outside job it's an option. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Alpha, you know I like you bud, but we have to have 4 good options at outside corner.  We also need a backup slot which Rapp can somewhat fill as welll as backup Hyde and Poyer.

 

we’re going to keep more, but I’d never move in from Benford, Elam, or Dane.  There’s a good chance Benford starts week 1.

I agree, again was not proposing this, was wondering if this was why Benford started given Dane seemed to be in the lead to start all camp and preseason.  
 

I want to keep them all too

 

4 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

You're right, dude.  My bad.  I think I was mostly responding to the thread's narrative than your original post/question.

Yeah all good  

Edited August 28, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Punching Bag]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

….and I seriously doubt they trade Elam, either. He needs time to learn the game and how to use his physical skills in more of a zone defense. 

 

And learn that NFL wants to see scores so he needs to keep his hands off WRs unlike in college.

[AuntieEm]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Saw a Ravens guy on Twitter pushing for an Elam to the Ravens trade for a LB.

 

The Elam family has ties to the Ravens. Seems to think they would want Elam.

 

And it certainly is possible and I am not saying this is any fact,  but if Elam would rather be on another team that maybe plays man much more he could be a bit slow to trying to excell in a zone system he may not care for.  Not totally dogging it but just not letting the new techniques become muscle memory.    He's gonna be signed by another team if he ever is deemed a bust for zone schemes.  Might have to earn less until he breaks out in the other scheme if he even does.  However these guys have egos that they often bet on themselves. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by AuntieEm

[PrimeTime101]

7 hours ago, Simon said:

It is clearly not too early on the Left Coast to light one up.

 

'ere..... 

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I agree, again was not proposing this, was wondering if this was why Benford started given Dane seemed to be in the lead to start all camp and preseason.  
 

I want to keep them all too

 

Yeah all good  

Respectfully my friend, I think you’re reading a little too much of the tea leaves into it.  They just want to figure out who’s the starter and why for the jets based on what they think the jets will do.

 

Each team Tre will always start, but they have different skills in Dane, to Benford to Elam.  When McD needs an athletic gift with natural press man coverage he’s going to start Elam.  When he needs which is more often zone he’ll probably toss up between Dane and Benford.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Analysis paralysis.

[stinky finger]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Saw a Ravens guy on Twitter pushing for an Elam to the Ravens trade for a LB.

 

The Elam family has ties to the Ravens. Seems to think they would want Elam.

 

Seems credible and highly likely.

[John from Riverside]

I think there’s literally no chance that the bills trade Benford

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, stinky finger said:

 

Seems credible and highly likely.

“Guy on twitter “ is never wrong.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Benford will start for the Bills. 

 

 

This is the general feeling I've gotten.

 

Uninformed feeling, I should say. But that's the way it looks to me to be trending.

[KOKBILLS]

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Let me clarify...I am not advocating to trade him or even saying he is for sure being traded.  Unlike many others, I am not concerned with the 3 way log jam at CB2 because I love having the depth, especially given the injury issues we have had at times at CB and the number of high level WR groupings we will face both in regular season and playoffs.  IMO, you can never have too many good CB's.  

 

BUT...we have a roster that isn't easy to make and we may need to make some tough decisions in places on players at various positions.  Plus Beane loves and needs more draft capital given our tight cap for the foreseeable future.  So, I don't think anyone would be surprised if Beane traded a player or two either for both roster space and gaining more draft capital.  

 

So why do I think Benford might be one of those players...2 main reasons:  

1. Beane already knows he has trade value and teams are interested given he was getting calls last year for Benford and he has only increased his value since then.  
2. His surprising start - In a 3 man battle at CB2, Dane was the clear leader in the race, and in the game where most starters played, Benford gets the start.

 

So this begs the question why did Benford start?

1.  Was it because he passed Dane?  Doubt it, Dane has not only been leading in the battle, but done nothing to lose his spot either as he has played well all camp and preseason and there is nothing Benford really does that Dane can't do.  
2. Was it to just give him his chance to "start" in the 3 CB race?  Doubt it because they did not do that with Elam who didn't start any preseason game despite being in the race to "start".  So there isn't a pattern of consistency there if they were all going to equally get that chance.
3. OR...Was it to showcase Benford, potentially increase his value as showing him as a possible starter and see what kind of trade interest it might create?  

 

Well, for me personally, I think it may be to showcase him to see what kind of trade interest and potential compensation it might create if he showed well, which he did.  This also tracks with what Beane has done in the past as well and its a common tactic when teams are considering a trade during preseason as well.  So while others are focusing on what Benfords start meant for Elam, I think it may be less about Elam and more about Benford and seeing what kind of trade value a good showing might drum up.  

 

I don't think Beane would "dump" any of the CB's for cheap if teams call, so I don't think he is say aggressively shopping him or trying to dump him.  But I think Benford starting may have been to try and increase his value for any calls he may get or already have gotten on one of our CB's.  To me I think it shows that maybe Benford of the 3 is the one he would be more willing to trade for the right offer.  And teams are always lookin for CB's, so I would suspect Beane will get some calls this year on one of them, if he hasn't already.

 

So while I like Benford and personally prefer to keep all 4 CB's (Tre, Dane, Elam, Benford) for depth, this feels like he was just showcased to maybe gauge trade interest and value.  And if Beane gets an offer he feels is good value for him, I think it might result in Benford being on the move.  

 

It's possible... I did not think of shopping Benford, but on another thread I commented that Elam coming in at CB4 in the final preseason game was not exactly improving his market value if Beane wanted to dangle him. So when you look at it the other way around with Benford it is interesting. Of course chances are they keep all 4. But the trade possibilities are not zero. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Respectfully my friend, I think you’re reading a little too much of the tea leaves into it.  They just want to figure out who’s the starter and why for the jets based on what they think the jets will do.

 

Each team Tre will always start, but they have different skills in Dane, to Benford to Elam.  When McD needs an athletic gift with natural press man coverage he’s going to start Elam.  When he needs which is more often zone he’ll probably toss up between Dane and Benford.

This is what I think too, and what I’ve been saying is what I think will happen at CB2 all camp.  So totally agree with that

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I think it is fair to acknowledge that coaches don't have to be right on every decision they make. Nor do GMs. The game isn't that much of a science. Really experienced and talented people can and do screw up in almost all walks of life. 

 

But I can't help but agree that when a poster takes it from the specific to the abstract (i.e. not "he is screwing up not playing player X" to "I don't trust him to play the right guys") then you have to look at McDermott's overall record in this league as a DC and a HC and say the evidence would suggest he overwhelmingly does play the right guys.

I can say I don't trust him if 13 seconds is left in a huge playoff game. 

 

I can say I don't trust him come playoff time. 

 

You look at McD overall record in the playoffs and the evidence would suggest he overwhelming doesn't get it done come playoff time. 

 

When do fans start to question whether McD is the coach to get the Bills to advance further? 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I can say I don't trust him if 13 seconds is left in a huge playoff game. 

 

I can say I don't trust him come playoff time. 

 

You look at McD overall record in the playoffs and the evidence would suggest he overwhelming doesn't get it done come playoff time. 

 

When do fans start to question whether McD is the coach to get the Bills to advance further? 

 

We disagree on how much the evidence does really suggest that when you dig deeper into it but that's not to be rehashed here. 

 

I don't think anyone said McDermott can't be questioned. The point was much more specific than that. Unless you believe the playoff losses are because he "didn't play the right guys" in which case I'd be interested to know which guys you think he should have plaued but didn't. 

 

[Nelius]

The McShyamalanBeane twist is going to be that it was Dane Jackson being "showcased" all along. Hooo, gasp

 

Will turn out that all the Elam doesn't get it chatter was the curveball. Elam and Benford subsequently both level up. Cam Lewis makes the team and and provides backend support along with Neal. Taron Johnson continues being the maniac that he is. Nobody really thinks Dane is the #2 on this team, cmon.

[davefan66]

Dane reached his ceiling and is a good 3rd or 4th.  He’s proven he can play, but does have too many breakdowns to be a starter.

 

Elam isn’t starter material, yet.  He’s buried on the depth chart which could be motivational versus ability.  He has the ability to be good, just needs the mental piece.

 

Benford starts.  And will be good.

[bmur66]

Very good possibility he was being show cased.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I personally feel that Beane would have to be mental to to trade any of our cb’s.

 

First, last year showed how fast injuries can happen and test your depth.

 

We play in the Afc loaded with top Qbs everywhere you turn. 
 

I actually hope Benford starts or it it won’t be long when Jackson gets toasted out there.

I think we should try to win a Super Bowl first before trading anyone promising. If anything Beane will trade Dline. 
 

But to your point.. Beane has a way of looking to showcase certain players for trade.. 

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We disagree on how much the evidence does really suggest that when you dig deeper into it but that's not to be rehashed here. 

 

I don't think anyone said McDermott can't be questioned. The point was much more specific than that. Unless you believe the playoff losses are because he "didn't play the right guys" in which case I'd be interested to know which guys you think he should have plaued but didn't. 

 

I think that's splitting hairs sort of speak. 

 

As a fan, coach McD hasn't get it done. He has vastly underperformed in the playoffs. In fact, there's plenty of games the Bills just lost winnable games. There's ample examples of him and his coaching staff getting out coached by a large margin. That's just not acceptable. 

 

I think it more than fair and reasonable for Bills fans to question this coaching staff. Not implying you don't. Certainly, last years disappointing exit doesn't instill confidence. Last year wasn't an anomaly. 

 

In short, as a fan, the bottom line is McD has fallen short and that's what really matters. Just look at Stephen Diggs reactions the last few years after disappointing losses. 

 

This team needs a change. McD is a good team builder, good coach, and a nice guy. That muddies the water when it comes to change. The team can do worse but I truly believe they can do better. I get staying the course. I realize I'm in the minority here. However, I believe this knowledge fan base has lost a lot of objectivity when it comes to McD. 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think that's splitting hairs sort of speak. 

 

Or it is literally the subject being discussed.....

[Chaos]

27 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think that's splitting hairs sort of speak. 

 

As a fan, coach McD hasn't get it done. He has vastly underperformed in the playoffs. In fact, there's plenty of games the Bills just lost winnable games. There's ample examples of him and his coaching staff getting out coached by a large margin. That's just not acceptable. 

 

I think it more than fair and reasonable for Bills fans to question this coaching staff. Not implying you don't. Certainly, last years disappointing exit doesn't instill confidence. Last year wasn't an anomaly. 

 

In short, as a fan, the bottom line is McD has fallen short and that's what really matters. Just look at Stephen Diggs reactions the last few years after disappointing losses. 

 

This team needs a change. McD is a good team builder, good coach, and a nice guy. That muddies the water when it comes to change. The team can do worse but I truly believe they can do better. I get staying the course. I realize I'm in the minority here. However, I believe this knowledge fan base has lost a lot of objectivity when it comes to McD. 

The main factor driving coaching hire/retain decisions is who Terry Pegula likes working with. Full stop.  If I spent billions on a team, I would want to work with who I want to work with too.  Based on the recent extension it is pretty clear he like working with McDermott and is not going to bring in a new person for the foreseeable future.  Mr. Pegula is not reviewing the situation through your lens or my lens.  

[Solomon Grundy]

I'd rather trade Dane personally

[newcam2012]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Or it is literally the subject being discussed.....

I hear you. Yes it was. However, I expanded the topic. The topic was coach McD and his playing in incorrect players. 

 

That's just too micro of a discussion with regards to McD. I think it's prudent to discuss many other factors. Right or wrong that's what I did. 

[OldTimer1960]

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This is what I think too, and what I’ve been saying is what I think will happen at CB2 all camp.  So totally agree with that

I liked the Elam pick at the time - not hiding from that, but Elam is clearly not performing remotely close to what they expected.  I think they might have been better off keeping Alex Austin.  Elam is clearly not in favor of this staff.  Indeed, in preseason he was basically holding on almost every play involving him - and he is not a good tackler, either.

 

I think Elam is trying, but I believe his confidence is shot.  He is grabbing because he doesn't trust his coverage skills.

13 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Dane reached his ceiling and is a good 3rd or 4th.  He’s proven he can play, but does have too many breakdowns to be a starter.

 

Elam isn’t starter material, yet.  He’s buried on the depth chart which could be motivational versus ability.  He has the ability to be good, just needs the mental piece.

 

Benford starts.  And will be good.

By all reports I've seen, Elam is a dedicated worker and student of the game.  I don't think any message needs to be sent to motivate him.  He needs to stop holding/grabbing which, in part, is a confidence issue.  It could also be that Elam doesn't have the quickness necessary to go with his speed and size.