Allen to Sherfield times two

[2003Contenders]

The key is Josh Allen.

 

I do believe that Sherfield was a great under-the-radar pickup in the off-season. It seems that every veteran receiver we have brought in since Josh has been the starting QB -- from John Brown to Cole Beasley to Stef Diggs -- has had career stats playing with Josh. The exception would be Emmanuel -- but he battled through injuries and wound up retiring at the end of the season. Maybe not a "breakout" season, but I do expect Sherfield to make solid contributions this season.

[Warriorspikes51]

when Sherfield was signed, I think a lot of fans thought he was a fringe player. But he earned the starting slot role in Miami

 

He's also a very good blocker.    He's WR3 or WR4 on this team

[SCBills]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hill and Kelce coupled with Mahomes was the best in the league… better than anything the Bills have ever given Allen and even with the Hill trade they still had JuJu and MVS with Kelce… not great receivers but not nobody’s/scrubs like the Bills trotted out last season behind Diggs and the inconsistent Davis. … the investment also isn’t nearly the same as the Bills lack there of.

 

People fall for the Mahomes-hype narrative driven by the media.  And don't get me wrong, he's worthy of hype.. but you can ball out as an elite QB when you have one of the top offensive minds in the league orchestrating an offense led by a Top 3 OL, Top 3 receiving option in Kelce and a bunch of WR2/3 types.  

 

Mahomes has never been without elite weapons OR an elite OL.  Hill/Kelce etc.. and then they traded Hill and invested heavy in OL.  The one year their OL let them down, they went all in to fix it.

 

Contrast that with Allen behind a bottom 5 OL, one elite WR, a good TE and not much else last season with Gabe hobbled and everyone else being complete JAG's. 

 

Now, I'll say, this year gives me hope.  There was real investment on the OL (not as much as we'd all like, but there's potential), the addition of a true weapon in Kincaid and the addition of Sherfield who provides functional WR3 ability/durability.  Harty is a flashier/higher-ceiling Jamison Crowder... let's see if it works. 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by SCBills

[ddaryl]

When I read about Sherfield and his troubles trying to get playing time ahead of higher draft players in Miami and Arizona, I felt JA and the BIlls Coaching would see it if he demonstatraed it in camp/preseason, and he would get increased playing time this season.  Looks like he is on track for exactly that



 

[Logic]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hill and Kelce coupled with Mahomes was the best in the league… better than anything the Bills have ever given Allen and even with the Hill trade they still had JuJu and MVS with Kelce… not great receivers but not nobody’s/scrubs like the Bills trotted out last season behind Diggs and the inconsistent Davis. … the investment also isn’t nearly the same as the Bills lack there of.

If history means anything than no… in all likelihood it won’t. 

Yeah. The Bills never gave Allen an elite #1 receiver and drafted an athletic specimen tight end in the 3rd round.

Oh wait. They did both of those things. And no, I'm not saying Knox is on the level of Kelce, but both were drafted in round 3, and the Bills gave up MORE draft capital for Diggs than the Chiefs spent on Hill, so this "Bills haven't invested on the same level as the Chiefs" thing...I don't buy it.

As for your mentioning Juju and MVS as evidence of the Chiefs giving Mahomes a bunch to work with? I dunno, man. Sure seems like a big stretch to me.

Where Mahomes has had the advantage over Allen is in two primary and very important areas: Play-calling and offensive line. THOSE are the things Mahomes benefits from that Allen does not. Receiving corps, though? I just don't agree.

[SWATeam]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hill and Kelce coupled with Mahomes was the best in the league… better than anything the Bills have ever given Allen and even with the Hill trade they still had JuJu and MVS with Kelce… not great receivers but not nobody’s/scrubs like the Bills trotted out last season behind Diggs and the inconsistent Davis. … the investment also isn’t nearly the same as the Bills lack there of.

If history means anything than no… in all likelihood it won’t. 

Diggs is in the same category as Kelce.  I would say that Gabe and Crowder were at least on par with JuJu and MVS.  A one legged Gabe and IR'd Crowder is a different story.

[uninja]

I like his blocking prowess and what he's shown as a pass catcher when given opportunities on other teams.

 

It makes the idea of 12 personnel packages with him, Diggs, Cook, Knox & Kincaid on the field VERY interesting.

[SWATeam]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

Where Mahomes has had the advantage over Allen is in two primary and very important areas: Play-calling and offensive line. THOSE are the things Mahomes benefits from that Allen does not. Receiving corps, though? I just don't agree.

Oline only became a strength for the Chiefs this past year.  Prior to that it was poor, remember that TB SB?

[SCBills]

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yeah. The Bills never gave Allen an elite #1 receiver and drafted an athletic specimen tight end in the 3rd round.

Oh wait. They did both of those things. And no, I'm not saying Knox is on the level of Kelce, but both were drafted in round 3, and the Bills gave up MORE draft capital for Diggs than the Chiefs spent on Hill, so this "Bills haven't invested on the same level as the Chiefs" thing...I don't buy it.

As for your mentioning Juju and MVS as evidence of the Chiefs giving Mahomes a bunch to work with? I dunno, man. Sure seems like a big stretch to me.

Where Mahomes has had the advantage over Allen is in two primary and very important areas: Play-calling and offensive line. THOSE are the things Mahomes benefits from that Allen does not. Receiving corps, though? I just don't agree.

 

Chiefs current roster:

 

Paid big money for LT, as they have been doing.

Paid big money for an IOL, as they have been doing.

Drafted Creed Humphrey high.

Traded for a recent RD1 WR.

Drafted WR's in RD2 in consecutive years.  

Are paying 10M per year for a WR2/3.

 

As discussed quite a bit here, some of it is just the fact that they hit on Trey Smith & Creed Humphrey while we're waiting on Spencer Brown, but they've absolutely went more in on giving Mahomes what he needs than we have for Allen.  I don't really see how that can even be debated up until this year. 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by SCBills

[Fixxxer]

Damn, should Sam Martin be worried?

[ddaryl]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Chiefs current roster:

 

Paid big money for LT, as they have been doing.

Paid big money for an IOL, as they have been doing.

Drafted Creed Humphrey high.

Traded for a recent RD1 WR.

Drafted WR's in RD2 in consecutive years.  

Are paying 10M per year for a WR2/3.

 

As discussed quite a bit here, some of it is just the fact that they hit on Trey Smith, but they've absolutely went more in on giving Mahomes what he needs than we have for Allen.  I don't really see how that can even be debated up until this year. 

 

Alsways been miffed about our inability to address the OL properly. 

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Diggs is in the same category as Kelce.

 

Not really. Kelce is arguably the greatest of all time at his position and will be a first ballot HOF. Diggs is an elite WR1 but that's still a step below Kelce IMO. Although I recognize a 1:1 comparison of WR to TE may not be entirely fair.

[SWATeam]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

And you’d be wrong.

Ok, we'll see what kind of contract Gabe gets compared to the other two to see how they're valued.

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not really. Kelce is arguably the greatest of all time at his position and will be a first ballot HOF. Diggs is an elite WR1 but that's still a step below Kelce IMO. Although I recognize a 1:1 comparison of WR to TE may not be entirely fair.

My point is that they are in the same category simply as both being top tier weapons.

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not really. Kelce is arguably the greatest of all time at his position and will be a first ballot HOF. Diggs is an elite WR1 but that's still a step below Kelce IMO. Although I recognize a 1:1 comparison of WR to TE may not be entirely fair.

 

Love Diggs, and this isn't even a knock on him.. it's just an admission of how dominant and unique Travis Kelce has been. 

 

I'd take him over any WR in the league.  Jefferson, Adams, Hill, Diggs etc., doesn't matter..  Give me the unicorn Tight End.  He is the most dangerous receiving weapon in the entire NFL and allows your offense to do so much around him. 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by SCBills

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

My point is that they are in the same category simply as both being top tier weapons.

 

GOATs are in a tier of their own. It's like saying Tom Brady and Philip Rivers are in the same category as both being top tier QBs.

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

GOATs are in a tier of their own. It's like saying Tom Brady and Philip Rivers are in the same category as both being top tier QBs.

Not nearly the same discussion.

 

Diggs: 108 catches for 1,400+ and 11 TD's

Kelce:  110 catches for 1,300+ and 12 TD's

 

They're the same caliber receiving weapon.   Kelce is a TE in name only. 

 

 

[msw2112]

Every year, there's a young, unheralded WR who has a great camp and preseason.  He doesn't make the roster and is never heard from again that season.  Sometimes he comes back and does it again the next season, and still doesn't make the team.  I'm not sure who that guy will end up being this year.  (NOTE:  it would be a fun thread to post the names of those guys from the past).  Sherfied is NOT that guy.  Sherfield is a veteran who has been with a few teams and has actually produced in the league.  He had pretty good stats in Miami last year, and he was the 3rd option, at best.  He's one of those guys that doesn't have a high draft status or a big name, so he gets passed over for guys that are less talented or less deserving than him.  He's showing his value in camp this season and he'll make the 53 and be a contributor.  He could probably contribute a lot more than he will simply due to numbers.  There's only one ball and the team has to feed Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Knox, and others, plus, the team is trying to put more focus on the run game this year.  I think he's a legitimate #3 and could be a #2 in the right situation, but with the Bills' offense he'll be somewhere from the 3rd to 5th option.  He'll still see the field and make some big plays and we will be very glad the Bills signed him.

[Success]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

Looks like between Harty, Shakir and Sherfield there is a lot of quality depth at the #2 and #3 WR spots.   Assuming they can stay healthy and with the addition of Kincaid, I think the offense could have its best year yet under Allen.

 

100% agree. I think the conventional take on the Bills is that it's Diggs & then everybody else, but Beane has really built out a versatile, talented group in the past year.  Sherfield and Harty were both great additions, and it's exciting to hear that Davis is having a great camp and looks like a true #2.  Add Kincaid into the mix, along w/ the improved line & running game, and this offense could be a nightmare for opposing DC's.

 

[Don Otreply]

38 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hill and Kelce coupled with Mahomes was the best in the league… better than anything the Bills have ever given Allen and even with the Hill trade they still had JuJu and MVS with Kelce… not great receivers but not nobody’s/scrubs like the Bills trotted out last season behind Diggs and the inconsistent Davis. … the investment also isn’t nearly the same as the Bills lack there of.

If history means anything than no… in all likelihood it won’t. 

Just a matter of usage, Sherfield is faster has better hands, and is essentially the same size, are you willing to assume Gabe won’t re-injure his ankle yet again, as he has every season thus far? If history means anything…, 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Not nearly the same discussion.

 

Diggs: 108 catches for 1,400+ and 11 TD's

Kelce:  110 catches for 1,300+ and 12 TD's

 

They're the same caliber receiving weapon.   Kelce is a TE in name only. 

 

 

 

Again I will admit I don't know how fair it is of me to compare a WR with a TE. But to counter your point I will point out that true GOATs make their hay in the playoffs against the other contenders, and that's where Kelce makes the biggest difference compared to Diggs.

 

Diggs' playoff stats since 2020:

75.3 YPG

5.3 receptions per game

61.7% catch percentage

0.29 TDs per game (this is honestly an awful stat)

 

Kelce's playoff stats since 2020:

101.8 YPG

9 receptions per game

83.3% catch percentage

1.1 TDs per game

 

The thing about Kelce that makes him a GOAT is that NOBODY shuts him down. Triple cover him and knock him on his ass and he still might score a TD on the play (this actually happened in a game last year).

 

Kelce is comfortably a tier above Diggs IMO. Diggs is still elite in his own right though, no question on that.

[brianthomas]

28 minutes ago, Logic said:

As for your mentioning Juju and MVS as evidence of the Chiefs giving Mahomes a bunch to work with? I dunno, man. Sure seems like a big stretch to me.

Where Mahomes has had the advantage over Allen is in two primary and very important areas: Play-calling and offensive line. THOSE are the things Mahomes benefits from that Allen does not. Receiving corps, though? I just don't agree.

It really is amazing how KC can seemingly toss out any RB or WR onto the field & have them be utilized in a manner that is not only productive, but that strikes fear into your opponents. The names of their supporting cast change every year it seems, yet KC remains consistent & dominant. I agree with your general take. The 2 glaring differences as i see them are KC has better coaching & a better offensive line, period. Everything else is a give & take.

If Mahomes has the time to throw, he'll find the open guy no matter who it is. Josh Allen is the same way. We just dont have the line to do that like KC does. We cant run the ball like KC does, throw screen passes like they do, offensive line & coaching, simple as that imho.

[Jerome007]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Although the starting lineup isn't much different; I think the depth of our receiving corps is much better than last year.

Yep. It's not that great for the receivers not getting much touches, but sure is for the team to have all this depth. Kincaid is the big change probably, but as he will replace in many ways what Beasley was asked to do, not too much game plan change for Dorsey.

[GoBills808]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Again I will admit I don't know how fair it is of me to compare a WR with a TE. But to counter your point I will point out that true GOATs make their hay in the playoffs against the other contenders, and that's where Kelce makes the biggest difference compared to Diggs.

 

Diggs' playoff stats since 2020:

75.3 YPG

5.3 receptions per game

61.7% catch percentage

0.29 TDs per game (this is honestly an awful stat)

 

Kelce's playoff stats since 2020:

101.8 YPG

9 receptions per game

83.3% catch percentage

1.1 TDs per game

 

The thing about Kelce that makes him a GOAT is that NOBODY shuts him down. Triple cover him and knock him on his ass and he still might score a TD on the play (this actually happened in a game last year).

 

Kelce is comfortably a tier above Diggs IMO. Diggs is still elite in his own right though, no question on that.

@SWATeamget dunked on 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

What dime a dozen talent had Mahomes turned into contributors?

 

He has had a lot more to work with than Allen. 

Is this a serious post? He has straight scrubs besides Kelce last year. 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Hill and Kelce coupled with Mahomes was the best in the league… better than anything the Bills have ever given Allen and even with the Hill trade they still had JuJu and MVS with Kelce… not great receivers but not nobody’s/scrubs like the Bills trotted out last season behind Diggs and the inconsistent Davis. … the investment also isn’t nearly the same as the Bills lack there of.

If history means anything than no… in all likelihood it won’t. 

MVS??? Come on dude. My man averaged 500/ season playing with QbS who won 3 MVPs. Really reaching there. 
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/ValdMa00.htm

 

also, juju is basically a possession receiver who scares no one. I bet more GMs would have Davis than him at their current contracts. 

 

 

[BuffaloMatt]

Winning 

[billybrew1]

13 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

We’ve been hearing good things about him. Starting with Dolphin players and fans sad to see him go to JA bragging on him to having a solid camp. What do you guys think Sherfield’s ceiling is with this team?

 

I know it’s just training camp, but just when you thought you’ve seen all the throws from JA, check this out! Nice grab too.

 

And check out this one handed grab.

Go Bills!

 

I expect him to average 3.5 targets/game on the season and to be a very solid weapon for us.

Unfortunately for him, he is a very solid blocker and knows how to block downfield when our guys catch the ball, but you have to reward him and make him one of the weapons to diversify your offense. He was a great pickup. My two favorite adds at this time are Kincaid and Sherfield on offense and Poona and Floyd on defense, though Rapp will get more press probably.

I wish we had a better RT and backup RT…. At least that’s the way it looks now. LG doesn’t thrill me either…. Sigh…. It’s the OL stupid! Do something great with the OL…. I know it looks like Beane has done a lot with the OL, I just think he might have failed.

No one is writing about McGovern but scarily, everyone is writing about Ed Oliver’s great camp….

[machine gun kelly]

I know Sherfield and Harty aren’t the big names like OBJ, and D. Hop, but that doesn’t mean they won’t have an impact as the 3rd.

 

Davis has the 2 spot, and with a healthy ankle he should make more of an effort impact this year.  Harty is great for the gadget thing, and Sherfield will probably win the slot job.  I think Shakir could end up on the PS.  He’s not wowed anyone in camp so far.

 

Besides, now we have DK2 for the 12 personnel.

[JerseyBills]

Been saying since day 1 , Sherf and Harty are big upgrades over McKenzie 

[John from Riverside]

I’ve been telling people to watch out for sherfield
 

Sometimes the situation is important let’s keep in mind that he was the third receiver behind two very good receivers in Miami

 

And he does everything he can catch. He’s fast and he blocks.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Is this a serious post? He has straight scrubs besides Kelce last year. 

MVS??? Come on dude. My man averaged 500/ season playing with QbS who won 3 MVPs. Really reaching there. 
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/ValdMa00.htm

 

also, juju is basically a possession receiver who scares no one. I bet more GMs would have Davis than him at their current contracts. 

 

 

MVS is a 1 dimensional WR who is like a WR4 i agree

[BillsFanForever19]

I was surprised to see he was with the 1's on the 1st series at the Red and Blue scrimmage in the Slot. They also had Kincaid lined up behind Knox on the line and then set him into motion.

 

He caught a TD that night too. He's been impressing all Camp. If that series is any indication, with Diggs, Kincaid, Davis, and Knox all also on the field at the same time - Sherfield is going to be find himself open pretty often.

Edited August 8, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Sherfield seems like one of those overlooked under the radar off-season FA signings that just blows up out of no where. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Chiefs current roster:

 

Paid big money for LT, as they have been doing.

Paid big money for an IOL, as they have been doing.

Drafted Creed Humphrey high.

Traded for a recent RD1 WR.

Drafted WR's in RD2 in consecutive years.  

Are paying 10M per year for a WR2/3.

 

As discussed quite a bit here, some of it is just the fact that they hit on Trey Smith & Creed Humphrey while we're waiting on Spencer Brown, but they've absolutely went more in on giving Mahomes what he needs than we have for Allen.  I don't really see how that can even be debated up until this year. 

 

You mean MVS?  They pay him $11 mil, but he is their WR1.  I agree that he is a 2/3 for other teams, but he is their current #1. (not counting Kelce)

 

They pay all of their other receivers less than $2 mil each.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

You mean MVS?  They pay him $11 mil, but he is their WR1.  I agree that he is a 2/3 for other teams, but he is their current #1. (not counting Kelce)

 

They pay all of their other receivers less than $2 mil each.

Yes, because they’ve invested in their OL and have a recent RD1, RD2 and RD2 WR all on rookie contracts. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

3 hours ago, msw2112 said:

Every year, there's a young, unheralded WR who has a great camp and preseason.  He doesn't make the roster and is never heard from again that season.  Sometimes he comes back and does it again the next season, and still doesn't make the team.  I'm not sure who that guy will end up being this year.  (NOTE:  it would be a fun thread to post the names of those guys from the past).  Sherfied is NOT that guy.  Sherfield is a veteran who has been with a few teams and has actually produced in the league.  He had pretty good stats in Miami last year, and he was the 3rd option, at best.  He's one of those guys that doesn't have a high draft status or a big name, so he gets passed over for guys that are less talented or less deserving than him.  He's showing his value in camp this season and he'll make the 53 and be a contributor.  He could probably contribute a lot more than he will simply due to numbers.  There's only one ball and the team has to feed Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Knox, and others, plus, the team is trying to put more focus on the run game this year.  I think he's a legitimate #3 and could be a #2 in the right situation, but with the Bills' offense he'll be somewhere from the 3rd to 5th option.  He'll still see the field and make some big plays and we will be very glad the Bills signed him.

Ok, thanks for the bolded above.  I was wondering where you were going with that at first. I agree with your points, Sherfield is a proved vet, who will definitely produce for us, if he and Josh develop chemistry.

 

As far as your list, I'll start: Marcus Easly, D'Rick Rodgers, David Sills V, 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by buffaloboyinATL

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, brianthomas said:

It really is amazing how KC can seemingly toss out any RB or WR onto the field & have them be utilized in a manner that is not only productive, but that strikes fear into your opponents. The names of their supporting cast change every year it seems, yet KC remains consistent & dominant. I agree with your general take. The 2 glaring differences as i see them are KC has better coaching & a better offensive line, period. Everything else is a give & take.

If Mahomes has the time to throw, he'll find the open guy no matter who it is. Josh Allen is the same way. We just dont have the line to do that like KC does. We cant run the ball like KC does, throw screen passes like they do, offensive line & coaching, simple as that imho.

Top 3 OL and Kelce. 
 

Mahomes is elite, of course, but that’s the reason why.  
 

Let’s not act like they haven’t invested at WR though.. We have Diggs and day 3 picks.   They have a recent RD1 and two RD2 picks at the position. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Yes, because they’ve invested in their OL and have a recent RD1, RD2 and RD2 WR all on rookie contracts. 

Kelce allows them the luxury to do that.  I pray that some day soon, Kincaid becomes a similar type player, who makes all of the WR's better, because of the attention he receives/success that he has.

[Alphadawg7]

16 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

We’ve been hearing good things about him. Starting with Dolphin players and fans sad to see him go to JA bragging on him to having a solid camp. What do you guys think Sherfield’s ceiling is with this team?

 

I know it’s just training camp, but just when you thought you’ve seen all the throws from JA, check this out! Nice grab too.

 

And check out this one handed grab.

Go Bills!

 

 

Ive been saying since the day he is signed that this guy is better than people think or realize.  I have followed him all the way back since his SF days, and this kid is going to provide some value to this team this year.  I really liked his signing and I think he is going to prove his doubters wrong on the field this season and why just googling stats without context is an unreliable way to grade or evaluate a players potential.  

 

And Sherfield has been having a very good camp overall beyond just these 2 clips too and seems to already have good rapport with Allen.  Of course, that still needs to transition into live game action, so don't want to over value that...but still good to see consistent positive reports on him.

 

Like in Miami last year, he is going to be a role player barring injuries.  So his stat line isn't going to be crazy otherwise, there are a lot of mouths to feed with Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Knox, and then guys like Harty, Shakir and the RB's getting some targets too.  Just not enough balls to go around, plus it seems a them in camp so far is more balance in the run game too.  

 

But, he will make plays for us and bring value to this team while also being capable of an increased role when needed.  

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[JerseyBills]

Damn man . I'm happy for you but jealous 

I'm in north jersey,  I see the Bills every year at metlife, I'll be there Monday night, 9/11 but I'm just dying for an OP experience 

 

We were supposed to go in 19 and some unfortunate events happened . Idk any Bills fans irl. It's rare over here, so it's tough to get out there 

[Mat68]

Sherfield is a plus blocker.  As good or better than Davis.   Davis wont be asked to 99 to 90% of offensive snaps now. Sherfield will be on the field more often than Harty and Shakir because he can block.  He will get schemed wide open when the defense thinks he is digging out a baker or safety but runs by them.  He will be the number 3 in snaps.  Shakir and Harty will look like the slot because they will play the traditional position.