Dawson Knox, 10th Best TE in NFL

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

My guess is it is because he hasn't been properly healthy for two seasons now. He was constantly nicked up in 2021 and then the 2022 injury he was "1 week away" for about 5 weeks and then even when he did get back on the field at the end of the year was not moving anything like smoothly. 

 

I am open to the idea that a change if scenary, fresh S&C regime, and a good offseason and you could see the old Darren Waller again. But I also think it is possible his body is just breaking down and he has another injury hit year.

 

Bottom 3rd for sure. 

IMO, Waller's play last season was an effect of the Josh McDaniels syndrome. He just didn't seem like he wanted to perform/play for this coach.

[NoSaint]

13 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

ESPN polled a bunch of execs, coaches, and players and came up with this Top Ten list for TEs:

 

1.  Travis Kelce – Kansas City Chiefs

2.  George Kittle – San Francisco 49ers

3.  Mark Andrews – Baltimore Ravens

4.  Dallas Goedert – Philadelphia Eagles

5.  Darren Waller – Las Vegas Raiders

6.  T.J. Hockenson – Minnesota Vikings

7.  Kyle Pitts – Atlanta Falcons

8.  Evan Engram – New York Giants

9.  Pat Freiermuth – Pittsburgh Steelers

10. Dawson Knox – Buffalo Bills

 

I'm just a bit surprised to see Dawson squeak into the top ten.  

 

www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/best-tight-ends-in-nfl-ranked-by-executives-players-scouts-and-coaches-full-list-here/ar-AA1dOmSj?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5c96caba93df4f4999185e02244fd04c&ei=38

top ten is essentially “very slightly above average” in this position group. I think that’s a good spot for him. 

[machine gun kelly]

Not that I care about any rankings from ESPN, but the rating for Knox seems right.

[78thealltimegreat]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes.

Well he’s paid like it

[Buckets]

14 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

ESPN polled a bunch of execs, coaches, and players and came up with this Top Ten list for TEs:

 

1.  Travis Kelce – Kansas City Chiefs

2.  George Kittle – San Francisco 49ers

3.  Mark Andrews – Baltimore Ravens

4.  Dallas Goedert – Philadelphia Eagles

5.  Darren Waller – Las Vegas Raiders

6.  T.J. Hockenson – Minnesota Vikings

7.  Kyle Pitts – Atlanta Falcons

8.  Evan Engram – New York Giants

9.  Pat Freiermuth – Pittsburgh Steelers

10. Dawson Knox – Buffalo Bills

 

I'm just a bit surprised to see Dawson squeak into the top ten.  

 

www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/best-tight-ends-in-nfl-ranked-by-executives-players-scouts-and-coaches-full-list-here/ar-AA1dOmSj?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5c96caba93df4f4999185e02244fd04c&ei=38

How do you know that he "squeaked" his way in? Who is #11?

[Ga boy]

13 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

QB throwing ball to TE factors into list. Move Dawson Knox to somewhere else, say New England, and his rating goes down.

Pitts would be pushing for #1 if JA17 was his QB.  Just think about it.  

[Jay_Fixit]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

thats a decent list imo

 

unfortunately the difference between 10-20 is not that big

True.

 

For a guy who gets around 31 yards per game, having people think Knox is the 10th best right end is something. If he was ranked 25th I wouldn’t be surprised either.

13 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

10th isnt bad, in my opinion.  He may be a couple of positions higher, as this list is subjective. 

 

Waller can't stay healthy, so I don't put much stock in him being on the list at all.

 

There will be a few risers this year as well.  I talked about it in another thread, but keep your eye on Chigoziem Okonkwo in Tennessee.  He is crazy talented!

10th best is actually amazing. I would have put him between 15-20.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

IMO, Waller's play last season was an effect of the Josh McDaniels syndrome. He just didn't seem like he wanted to perform/play for this coach.

 

What was the excuse in 2021?

14 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

True.

 

For a guy who gets around 31 yards per game, having people think Knox is the 10th best right end is something. If he was ranked 25th I wouldn’t be surprised either.

10th best is actually amazing. I would have put him between 15-20.

 

It is not. This was a ranking by people who watch the film. He can block, he gets open really well, he is good after the catch and the last 2 years his hands have been pretty good. The reason the #s are not more eye popping is down to the OCs and Allen. Where the Bills use him more - redzone. His production the past 2 years is that of a top 5 TE in the NFL.

[Brandon]

I'm not surprised.  He's better than he gets credit for around here and probably better than #10. 

[Nextmanup]

If that's close to true, the amount of action he saw last year is CRIMINAL.

 

Chalk another up to our "outstanding" coaching staff.

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

17 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Waller might be washed. There aren’t that many really good TEs right now.

There never has been. It's always been extremely thin at the top.

[Jay_Fixit]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What was the excuse in 2021?

 

It is not. This was a ranking by people who watch the film. He can block, he gets open really well, he is good after the catch and the last 2 years his hands have been pretty good. The reason the #s are not more eye popping is down to the OCs and Allen. Where the Bills use him more - redzone. His production the past 2 years is that of a top 5 TE in the NFL.

Yeah. And the ranking great for him. Because as a Bills fan. Who watches every game. And knows a lot about the game. And has eyes that work.  I really think 10 for Knox is quite generous. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Yeah. And the ranking great for him. Because as a Bills fan. Who watches every game. And knows a lot about the game. And has eyes that work.  I really think 10 for Knox is quite generous. 

It is

 

People say oh he's got top physical abilities...yeah no kidding, he's a TE. They are all freak athletes

 

The reality is Knox runs pretty sloppy routes and doesn't have great hands. He's in the mix but top10 is being charitable and speaks more to the dearth of talent at the position.

[MPL]

I took a crack at how the actual TE list should look, and unfortunately, I think this is very accurate. 

1. Kelce
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2-10. Other guys that play TE

[Billl]

14 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

After the top 3 it’s debatable. Knox would be too 4 easy if he didn’t have drops. Kincaid will be the best after this year. 

That would make Kincaid a top 5 player in the league.  Pretty good return for the 25th pick in the draft.

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

QB throwing ball to TE factors into list. Move Dawson Knox to somewhere else, say New England, and his rating goes down.

Or up 

[Coach Tuesday]

Freiermuth?!?  Really?

[Mike in Horseheads]

Dawson Kincaid  9th.  😁

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

It is

 

People say oh he's got top physical abilities...yeah no kidding, he's a TE. They are all freak athletes

 

The reality is Knox runs pretty sloppy routes and doesn't have great hands. He's in the mix but top10 is being charitable and speaks more to the dearth of talent at the position.

No. We have to think all Bills players are the best. And are always hated on.

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

No. We have to think all Bills players are the best. And are always hated on.

 

I do not think all Bills players are the best. You are just wrong on Dawson Knox.

[GoBills808]

45 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

No. We have to think all Bills players are the best. And are always hated on.

If Knox was a better player he would see more use. It's not rocket surgery lol

 

all other pass catchers who come to Buffalo and play w Allen end up having career years

 

tbh Knox might not be in consideration for top20 if he were in a different offense w another QB

[Jay_Fixit]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do not think all Bills players are the best. You are just wrong on Dawson Knox.

I’m actually nowhere near wrong.

 

And this ranking of him at 10 will be the highest he’ll ever see.

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

If Knox was a better player he would see more use. It's not rocket surgery lol

 

all other pass catchers who come to Buffalo and play w Allen end up having career years

 

tbh Knox might not be in consideration for top20 if he were in a different offense w another QB

And the Bills probably wouldn’t have traded up to grab another TE.

[PrimeTime101]

13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Where would Gabe Davis ranked for WR2?

good question. the only person that could come close to answering this that I know? @GunnerBill

 

[billsfan89]

Knox is about the 12-10th best TE in the NFL. He isn't elite but he is better than average in my opinion. His Receptions (48) rank 17th among TEs in 2022 and his yards (517) rank 14th among TEs and his TD's (6) are tied for 5th among TEs in 2022. So outside of his TD numbers, he may seem fairly average but factoring in his targets (65) which rank tied for 18th among TE's in 2022 he looks a bit better doing more with less targets so to speak. 

 

Receiving wise I would say Knox's numbers are well outside the top 10 even factoring in his targets and high TD rate. BUT Knox is also known as a good blocker, something that I think adds value as many TE's with better-receiving numbers are average or worse blockers. So a good blocker with slightly above average receiving numbers on below-average volume puts him either just inside or just outside the top 10 at TE. So as a receiver he might be the 13-15th best TE but his blocking gets him up a few more spots.

Edited July 14, 2023 by billsfan89

[DCofNC]

Pitts is too low, but whatever.  This sounds about right for Knox.

[Jay_Fixit]

8 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

good question. the only person that could come close to answering this that I know? @GunnerBill

 

This is good sarcasm.

[Doc Brown]

12 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I’m actually nowhere near wrong.

 

And this ranking of him at 10 will be the highest he’ll ever see.

And the Bills probably wouldn’t have traded up to grab another TE.

Money talks.  They don't give Knox a 4 years 52 million dollar deal (31.2 million guaranteed) if they were down on him.  They wanted a true slot guy to replace Beasley and Kinkaid was the best solution they could come up with. 

[Pete]

 

 

When is Kyle Pitts going to break out?  He is being wasted in Atlanta.  Now Bijan is there, this might be his year.  If Pitts hits free agency, he willl be one of higher paid TEs

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

 

When is Kyle Pitts going to break out?  He is being wasted in Atlanta.  Now Bijan is there, this might be his year.  If Pitts hits free agency, he willl be one of higher paid TEs

 

He had a thousand yards as a rookie. Injuries and QB issues held him back last year. Agree he hasn't justified the #4 pick yet.

[frostbitmic]

Wait ... Where's Zach Ertz ?

[Nextmanup]

14 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Knox is about the 12-10th best TE in the NFL. He isn't elite but he is better than average in my opinion. His Receptions (48) rank 17th among TEs in 2022 and his yards (517) rank 14th among TEs and his TD's (6) are tied for 5th among TEs in 2022. So outside of his TD numbers, he may seem fairly average but factoring in his targets (65) which rank tied for 18th among TE's in 2022 he looks a bit better doing more with less targets so to speak. 

 

Receiving wise I would say Knox's numbers are well outside the top 10 even factoring in his targets and high TD rate. BUT Knox is also known as a good blocker, something that I think adds value as many TE's with better-receiving numbers are average or worse blockers. So a good blocker with slightly above average receiving numbers on below-average volume puts him either just inside or just outside the top 10 at TE. So as a receiver he might be the 13-15th best TE but his blocking gets him up a few more spots.

He's a lot better than what we have had for a very long time, but he's still not what you are really looking for....which makes Beane's HUGE K with the guy a big mistake IMO.  Unless they have a trick for getting out of it.  I don't know the details on that.

 

If he was "the guy" they would not have drafted Kincaid so highly, even if they are saying he will be the slot guy.  How he plays out and where he fits in, and how good he is, I think remains to be determined. 

 

George Kittle just left the 49ers in free agency.  I would have gotten rid of half the salary load on this team (if possible) to free up the cash to sign that guy.  Beane knows how to pull off some tricks....I can't believe we didn't pursue that.

 

Keep Von, I'll take George.

 

 

 

 

[Augie]

14 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I’m actually nowhere near wrong.

 

And this ranking of him at 10 will be the highest he’ll ever see.

And the Bills probably wouldn’t have traded up to grab another TE.

I don’t think they drafted “another TE.”  I think they drafted a mismatch in the slot, which is something we were sorely missing. I’m excited about this pick, but time will tell. 

 

If the Bills OLine could protect Josh, we would have seen much more of Knox last season. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

George Kittle just left the 49ers in free agency.  I would have gotten rid of half the salary load on this team (if possible) to free up the cash to sign that guy.  Beane knows how to pull off some tricks....I can't believe we didn't pursue that.

 

 

Your posts make a lot more sense now. You are living and commenting on an alternate reality where things that have happened didn't happen and where things that didn't happen actually happened.

[Augie]

28 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Wait ... Where's Zach Ertz ?

 

I think he might be with Waldo, but maybe you should start a new thread so we can properly investigate this? 

[frostbitmic]

7 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I think he might be with Waldo, but maybe you should start a new thread so we can properly investigate this? 

I think an Ertz thread would be popular on this board.

[Augie]

16 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

I think an Ertz thread would be popular on this board.

 

I think you just may be on to something! I trust your judgement.  😋

[Jay_Fixit]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Money talks.  They don't give Knox a 4 years 52 million dollar deal (31.2 million guaranteed) if they were down on him.  They wanted a true slot guy to replace Beasley and Kinkaid was the best solution they could come up with. 

Who said anything about being down on him? I’m saying ranking him 10th is excellent for Knox. Probably speaks more to the lack of good tight ends in the NFL. Knox is an average route runner with average hands. And you guys can spin the Kincaid pick how we you want. He’s factually another TE. 

[Big Turk]

I think he is anywhere from 10-13 IMO with some upside. I still think he has more to offer.

21 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Who said anything about being down on him? I’m saying ranking him 10th is excellent for Knox. Probably speaks more to the lack of good tight ends in the NFL. Knox is an average route runner with average hands. And you guys can spin the Kincaid pick how we you want. He’s factually another TE. 

 

Factually, but it doesn't matter what his position is, it matters how they utilize him in the offense and based on everything we have been told he likely is going to be a big slot receiver.

 

Gilliam is factually a fullback, or at least was, but he lines up all over the formation like a swiss army knife.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Big Turk

[Eastport bills]

If Knox emerges as a real red zone machine, with Kincaid being a threat as well, how can any defense cover all our weapons? Look out for Cook, Harris and Murray  to have success in the  red zone with these receivers and Josh needing to be accounted for.

[3rdand12]

On 7/14/2023 at 6:28 PM, Jay_Fixit said:

I’m actually nowhere near wrong.

 

And this ranking of him at 10 will be the highest he’ll ever see.

And the Bills probably wouldn’t have traded up to grab another TE.

I think they picked up Kincaid without thought to Knox necessarily . Kincaid is a great receiver in the making who can open up the playbook for Bills. Can play the slot and even outside. Great pickup imo , but yet to be proven of course.
Beane expanded the arsenal. did not replace Know by any means
Complimentary player
You might be wrong  LOL

11 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

I think an Ertz thread would be popular on this board.

lets give it a try !