Looking back at JA17s best game ever, the underneath stuff killed NE. Makes Josh unstoppable

[JerseyBills]

Was on YouTube and this game highlights was on my feed so I couldn't resist but what caught my eye was how Allen took the underneath throws all day, our run game was extremely effective which lead to effective play action. This combo then opens up the intermediate- long pass game and will leave the D on skates all day..

I been saying for years,  if Josh takes what the D gives underneath,  he'd literally be unstoppable like we see here - 1 of the best QB performances in the post season. 

 

I think with the moves we made on we'll be seeing alot more games play out  like this. Josh just needs take those underneath options more and idk how you stop us

 

 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

Not bad for a QB that supposedly chokes in the playoffs (according to hack writers and twitter trolls).

 

Man, that was fun to watch!

[78thealltimegreat]

I often wonder if Josh last year just didn’t trust his guys enough to do this.

Rewatch the Jets game last year the

middle of the field was open the whole game.

 

After the Gabe drop in the first quarter he just didn’t throw there anymore.

I just think there’s trust issue with his receivers not named Diggs. 

[transient]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I often wonder if Josh last year just didn’t trust his guys enough to do this.

Rewatch the Jets game last year the

middle of the field was open the whole game.

 

After the Gabe drop in the first quarter he just didn’t throw there anymore.

I just think there’s trust issue with his receivers not named Diggs. 

It was also suggested that after the Jets game and the UCL injury that he had to alter his mechanics, which affected the short and intermediate throws more than the long throws. Given the ball that he uncorked that hit Davis in the hands to end the Jets game… 3 plays after the injury… there may be some credence to that. 

[DapperCam]

16 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I often wonder if Josh last year just didn’t trust his guys enough to do this.

Rewatch the Jets game last year the

middle of the field was open the whole game.

 

After the Gabe drop in the first quarter he just didn’t throw there anymore.

I just think there’s trust issue with his receivers not named Diggs. 

I can’t remember the game, but Allen threw underneath to Cook across the middle, and Cook just stopped running his route, leading to an INT.

 

I noticed Allen trusted Cook underneath a lot less after that.

[Buffalo Boy]

  He started against the Rams getting rid of it immediately all game.

   Same during the Miami game. He’s got it in him. 
  I absolutely agree with the OP. With a decent running game it keeps us on the field and opposing Os off

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Was on YouTube and this game highlights was on my feed so I couldn't resist but what caught my eye was how Allen took the underneath throws all day, our run game was extremely effective which lead to effective play action. This combo then opens up the intermediate- long pass game and will leave the D on skates all day..

I been saying for years,  if Josh takes what the D gives underneath,  he'd literally be unstoppable like we see here - 1 of the best QB performances in the post season. 

 

I think with the moves we made on we'll be seeing alot more games play out  like this. Josh just needs take those underneath options more and idk how you stop us

 

 

Now if only KD & JA can come to a meeting of minds and implement such a strategy…, the very thought makes my football fan self very happy…, 

[pocoboy]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I can’t remember the game, but Allen threw underneath to Cook across the middle, and Cook just stopped running his route, leading to an INT.

 

I noticed Allen trusted Cook underneath a lot less after that.

 

It's these types of things that make me wonder if Daboll did a much better job than Dorsey of ensuring key players knew their responsibilities on routes etc. I rationalize that by the fact that early in the season there was likely still some memory from previous gameplans and training sessions, but as time faded and plays evolved Dorsey didn't get that aspect right nearly enough.

[mjt328]

The Bills offense ranked very highly in all categories last year.  But it lacked consistency.

 

 

Fans who poured over film really felt they missed Cole Beasley.  The injury to Jameson Crowder hurt more than most expected, and Isaiah McKenzie just wasn't great in the role of slot receiver.  I think over the course of the season, Ken Dorsey and Josh Allen lost confidence with the short options and just started going for the throat on passing plays.

 

Brandon Beane seemed to recognize this, and went after Nyheim Hines.  For some reason, he just never got incorporated into the offense.  He also brought back Beasley, although it wasn't the same without a year to get timing and rhythm down.

 

Hopefully the Bills focus on getting this right in 2023.  They certainly have the guys to make it work.  Dawson Knox, Dalton Kincaid, James Cook, Nyheim Hines, Deonte Harty.  

 

[NickelCity]

Our potential success is hugely dependent on Josh taking the short and intermediate throws. 

 

We've seen him do it ad nauseam to become one of the best in the game. Let's hope the abandonment of it last year was an aberration...I think it was. 

[MJS]

33 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

It's these types of things that make me wonder if Daboll did a much better job than Dorsey of ensuring key players knew their responsibilities on routes etc. I rationalize that by the fact that early in the season there was likely still some memory from previous gameplans and training sessions, but as time faded and plays evolved Dorsey didn't get that aspect right nearly enough.

If a player runs a wrong route or a bad route, that is on the player. You can't lay everything at Dorsey's feet.

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Was on YouTube and this game highlights was on my feed so I couldn't resist but what caught my eye was how Allen took the underneath throws all day, our run game was extremely effective which lead to effective play action. This combo then opens up the intermediate- long pass game and will leave the D on skates all day..

I been saying for years,  if Josh takes what the D gives underneath,  he'd literally be unstoppable like we see here - 1 of the best QB performances in the post season. 

 

I think with the moves we made on we'll be seeing alot more games play out  like this. Josh just needs take those underneath options more and idk how you stop us

 

 

In order for us to win a Super Bowl, it is incumbent on Allen to maintain this level of patience…Hopefully it will come with experience and maturity as a QB…👍

[Nephilim17]

This is my belief or at least hope as well.

Kincaid should be the lynchpin to the short game. Cook as a receiver will also be a factor.

[B-Large]

If this offense can find balance between grinding a run game, intermediate passing game and long ball, they simple can't be defended.  I think this year we will see game plans catered to the opponent and conditions... last year it was just "let Josh and Stephon do stuff".... it was crazy there were able to be a great offense doing that, but it was limited when it mattered most. 

 

If Kincaid and get up to speed quick, this offense is gonna be donkey.....

[fergie's ire]

Yeah, it irritates me when posters write "Josh has NEVER taken the short stuff."  He has.  It's been sporadic, which is annoying but it's been there.  Most consistently was the end of the 21 season and start of last year.  Against NE, KC, LA (prompting Collinsworth to comment that he was Brady-esque), Miami (prompting half our offense to vomit from heat exhaustion because we had the ball so long), etc.  Then, I don't know what happened.  I remember speculation that the Pitt game spoiled him and Josh started looking for 98 yard bombs.  There was the injury...and as mentioned above I do think there was a lack of trust with his receivers.  I don't think Knox (also a good short to intermediate target in 21) was ever quite right after the loss of his brother.  And, maybe it was scheme from Dorsey.  It was probably a combination of all those things and I just hope they remember how effective Josh's short game can be and it gets back on track.

[machine gun kelly]

It’s a new year.  The team has changed over a bit, and the TC will ferret out what happens next.

[JerseyBills]

59 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Yeah, it irritates me when posters write "Josh has NEVER taken the short stuff."  He has.  It's been sporadic, which is annoying but it's been there.  Most consistently was the end of the 21 season and start of last year.  Against NE, KC, LA (prompting Collinsworth to comment that he was Brady-esque), Miami (prompting half our offense to vomit from heat exhaustion because we had the ball so long), etc.  Then, I don't know what happened.  I remember speculation that the Pitt game spoiled him and Josh started looking for 98 yard bombs.  There was the injury...and as mentioned above I do think there was a lack of trust with his receivers.  I don't think Knox (also a good short to intermediate target in 21) was ever quite right after the loss of his brother.  And, maybe it was scheme from Dorsey.  It was probably a combination of all those things and I just hope they remember how effective Josh's short game can be and it gets back on track.

Ya I really liked the 2 "back" sets in this game,  with Motor and McKenzie 

 

I hope to see more q back sets with Hines back there . He's just a straight weapon 

 

But I've been one of those ppl critical of his lack of check downs and easy yards he passes up. Watching Mahomes constantly throw to his RBs for major yardage kills me. 

 

Ya there was a shift after the injury for sure. But man if Josh can take what the defense gives and make them respect that area of the field, with a good rush attack,  he'd be nearly impossible to slow down

[PatsFanNH]

3 hours ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

Not bad for a QB that supposedly chokes in the playoffs (according to hack writers and twitter trolls).

 

Man, that was fun to watch!

People say that? I’d be more likely to say the Bills D finds a way play just bad enough to lose in the playoffs. (So far) 

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya I really liked the 2 "back" sets in this game,  with Motor and McKenzie 

 

I hope to see more q back sets with Hines back there . He's just a straight weapon 

 

But I've been one of those ppl critical of his lack of check downs and easy yards he passes up. Watching Mahomes constantly throw to his RBs for major yardage kills me. 

 

Ya there was a shift after the injury for sure. But man if Josh can take what the defense gives and make them respect that area of the field, with a good rush attack,  he'd be nearly impossible to slow down

Agreed.  Here's hoping with the retooled line and a healed elbow, we see it.

 

[wppete]

Best game I have ever seen from any player. Thy was a perfect game. 

[GETTOTHE50]

'Give-me-shotgun-or-give-me-death Dorsey' only calls for deep shots. it treats the offensive game plan like its madden.

 

ill give dorsey a couple of games to get this ***** cleared up. develop a run game and some plays where JA17 takes some snaps from undercenter to establish a solid play-action ffs

 

 

[BillsClinton]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

If a player runs a wrong route or a bad route, that is on the player. You can't lay everything at Dorsey's feet.

eh, it’s both. If I’m bad at my day job, it could be because I’m simply incompetent. Or it could be because my manager is awful, I never received the training or instruction on how to complete my duties, or I may not even know what is expected of me. A coaches job, like a managers, is to put their players in the best position to succeed. If guys are running the wrong routes because the scheme is needlessly complex, or they have insufficient instruction, aren’t on the same page, etc etc, that is a failing of coaching as much as it is the player.

Edited June 13, 2023 by BillsClinton

[RoyBatty is alive]

Noticed several factors.

 

There were MANY playmakers in the game including Hyde on the INT and the big punt return, Singeltary had a fantastic game as did McKenzie who didnt fumble/drop the ball.  Also note Josh ran a lot, several designed runs.  Our O Line held up quite well.  We had almost everything going for us in that game.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, mjt328 said:

The Bills offense ranked very highly in all categories last year.  But it lacked consistency.

 

 

Fans who poured over film really felt they missed Cole Beasley.  The injury to Jameson Crowder hurt more than most expected, and Isaiah McKenzie just wasn't great in the role of slot receiver.  I think over the course of the season, Ken Dorsey and Josh Allen lost confidence with the short options and just started going for the throat on passing plays.

 

Brandon Beane seemed to recognize this, and went after Nyheim Hines.  For some reason, he just never got incorporated into the offense.  He also brought back Beasley, although it wasn't the same without a year to get timing and rhythm down.

 

Hopefully the Bills focus on getting this right in 2023.  They certainly have the guys to make it work.  Dawson Knox, Dalton Kincaid, James Cook, Nyheim Hines, Deonte Harty.  

 

I think they had other options for the short routes in Diggs, Knox and Cook (along with Hines) but we kept chucking it deep.   That was never going to be the answer against the Chiefs and the Bengals. 

[jethro_tull]

exactly why kincaid will help us win a bowl soon.  

[Robert Paulson]

On 6/13/2023 at 9:30 AM, transient said:

It was also suggested that after the Jets game and the UCL injury that he had to alter his mechanics, which affected the short and intermediate throws more than the long throws. Given the ball that he uncorked that hit Davis in the hands to end the Jets game… 3 plays after the injury… there may be some credence to that. 

this was the issue- he's healthy this year and as long as the O Line is not 2+ turnstiles we will be unstoppable

[LABILLBACKER]

I've said for years, besides a mediocre OL, the only thing that can stop Josh Allen is Josh Allen.  There were dropped balls early last year by Cook, Dirty and Gabe that suggested a loss of confidence in those guys. Then the Jets ulner injury changed the dynamics of throwing short or short-intermediate.  Factor in the 10 or so crazy drama events and poor field conditions v. Cincy and our fate was sealed. Dorsey should've kept routes simple in the snow. Whoever was in charge of cleats that day should be fired.  Now that his arm is healed we should see a return to the NE playoff game plan. And factor Diggs, Knox & Kincaid more into the equation. 

[julian]

On 6/13/2023 at 4:18 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Noticed several factors.

 

There were MANY playmakers in the game including Hyde on the INT and the big punt return, Singeltary had a fantastic game as did McKenzie who didnt fumble/drop the ball.  Also note Josh ran a lot, several designed runs.  Our O Line held up quite well.  We had almost everything going for us in that game.

Agree, most importantly the oline wasn’t getting run over on every snap.

[TBBills Fan]

That Hyde INT is just so damn impressive...

[LABILLBACKER]

13 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

That Hyde INT is just so damn impressive...

It's probably the most memorable int I have ever seen watching 50+ years of Bills football.  He literally came out of nowhere.

[Gugny]

Playing against New England certainly didn’t hurt. 

[TBBills Fan]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It's probably the most memorable int I have ever seen watching 50+ years of Bills football.  He literally came out of nowhere.

 

 

agree...Im 45 and been a fan as long as I remember and that one is special

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It's probably the most memorable int I have ever seen watching 50+ years of Bills football.  He literally came out of nowhere.

Yeah.  He glided in like an Eagle and flew away with the ball.   It was awesome

[Einstein]

Daboll is so good.

Watching those game highlights again and seeing the variety of plays and the pacing and spacing… night and day.

[WyoAZBillfan]

On 6/13/2023 at 12:20 PM, BillsClinton said:

eh, it’s both. If I’m bad at my day job, it could be because I’m simply incompetent. Or it could be because my manager is awful, I never received the training or instruction on how to complete my duties, or I may not even know what is expected of me. A coaches job, like a managers, is to put their players in the best position to succeed. If guys are running the wrong routes because the scheme is needlessly complex, or they have insufficient instruction, aren’t on the same page, etc etc, that is a failing of coaching as much as it is the player.

Players don’t get to this level and rely on coaches for all that is done. Your statements make it sound as if they were complete baboons in losses. Sure they have to work together and be on same page, I’d venture to say more games are lost due to players inability to perform or rather lack of execution. 

[Dave_Bills]

22 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It's probably the most memorable int I have ever seen watching 50+ years of Bills football.  He literally came out of nowhere.

That INT was phenomenal. Especially the situation. 
 

Maybe because it was live and I had an exceptional view of it but I remember Jairus Byrd making an incredibly athletic interception against the Fish one year. Don’t remember the year. Obviously not as meaningful as we sucked but I’ll never forget that play he made. Out of this world athletic

[JerseyBills]

22 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It's probably the most memorable int I have ever seen watching 50+ years of Bills football.  He literally came out of nowhere.

I slammed my hat thinking the WR caught it until Hyde popped up. That was phenomenal 

[Mango]

On 6/13/2023 at 11:05 AM, mjt328 said:

The Bills offense ranked very highly in all categories last year.  But it lacked consistency.

 

 

Fans who poured over film really felt they missed Cole Beasley.  The injury to Jameson Crowder hurt more than most expected, and Isaiah McKenzie just wasn't great in the role of slot receiver.  I think over the course of the season, Ken Dorsey and Josh Allen lost confidence with the short options and just started going for the throat on passing plays.

 

Brandon Beane seemed to recognize this, and went after Nyheim Hines.  For some reason, he just never got incorporated into the offense.  He also brought back Beasley, although it wasn't the same without a year to get timing and rhythm down.

 

Hopefully the Bills focus on getting this right in 2023.  They certainly have the guys to make it work.  Dawson Knox, Dalton Kincaid, James Cook, Nyheim Hines, Deonte Harty.  

 

I have all 22 and at no point did I think we ever needed Cole Beasley back. 

[NickelCity]

55 minutes ago, Mango said:

I have all 22 and at no point did I think we ever needed Cole Beasley back. 

 

So was it OLine, pay design, Josh? All?

[Capco]

On 6/13/2023 at 9:30 AM, JerseyBills said:

Was on YouTube and this game highlights was on my feed so I couldn't resist but what caught my eye was how Allen took the underneath throws all day, our run game was extremely effective which lead to effective play action. This combo then opens up the intermediate- long pass game and will leave the D on skates all day..

I been saying for years,  if Josh takes what the D gives underneath,  he'd literally be unstoppable like we see here - 1 of the best QB performances in the post season. 

 

I think with the moves we made on we'll be seeing alot more games play out  like this. Josh just needs take those underneath options more and idk how you stop us

 

 

I like how a 15-yard penalty made the highlight reel lol.