Connor and O’Cyrus at the minimum should help cut down on these type of things

[78thealltimegreat]

I have no words for what Josh endured last season

 

[mrags]

Worst part is Saffold just standing there watching his defender chase Josh all over the field 

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I have no words for what Josh endured last season

 

 

What was the down and distance needed for 1st down on that play? 

 

I do agree I do think having the Cyborg protecting Josh will make life very pleasant for Bills Mafia as an untouched Josh will be a bigger nightmare for dcs than he already is now.  Big difference in when Josh beats the other teams defense and they don't get to beat up on him to stop him. 

 

And with bigger holes opened for our speedier rbs or the slot Kincaid releasing to open middle of the field for easy yards and keeping the chains moving.  Josh has the smarts to up his qb game another notch or two when reading defenses and knowing what players will be open for big gains or where his safety valves are if a play gets blown up like in the video.  No need for him to take off he just tosses the ball to whoever is open.    At 6'5" Kincaid will be open alot as there aren't many corners that have matching height.  Taller players generally develop into wrs or tes more often than dbs.  Least it seems that way to me.  

 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

It's unfair to judge a veteran player like Saffold just by one rep.  That's why you need to watch all of them last year to truly grasp how terrible he was.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

It's unfair to judge a veteran player like Saffold just by one rep.  That's why you need to watch all of them last year to truly grasp how terrible he was.

He was bad. One thing about an OL, a bad apple does ruin the bunch. Brown also gets beat but it Saffold holds up his guy at all then Allen steps up and Brown washes his guy out.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He was bad. One thing about an OL, a bad apple does ruin the bunch. Brown also gets beat but it Saffold holds up his guy at all then Allen steps up and Brown washes his guy out.

That's encouraging because I fully expect Spencer Brown to be the apple that Adam and Eve ate in Genesis.

 

I watch that play and it's funny to me just how easy it was for Josh to side step Reader.  He's just so deceptively quick.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

That's encouraging because I fully expect Spencer Brown to be the apple that Adam and Eve ate in Genesis.

 

I watch that play and it's funny to me just how easy it was for Josh to side step Reader.  He's just so deceptively quick.

Brown can be a problem next year but it’s much easier to chip or give some help to Brown then having your OG literally just be a pylon.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I have no words for what Josh endured last season

 

 

$6m doesn't get you much these days. I said it at the time, Von apart I hated what the Bills did in FA in 2022. I know Daquan Jones played well for them too so I take that into account but overall that was a horrific use of money. 

 

$23.5m on one year of Jordan Phillips, one year of Roger Saffold, two years of Tim Settle (who might now be a cut candidate) and OJ Howard (who didn't make it out of camp). So when Beane pleads cap poverty now someone should remind him of how he got there. 

 

This isn't a fire Beane post. He has done a good job for Buffalo overall. But I took a lot of heat at the time for being critical of their 2022 FA strategy (Von apart). But all my worst fears were realised.

[Doc Brown]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Brown can be a problem next year but it’s much easier to chip or give some help to Brown then having your OG literally just be a pylon.

Let's not insult pylon's now.  You can definitely chip to help Brown out but in doing so you limit what you can create in the passing game.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Let's not insult pylon's now.  You can definitely chip to help Brown out but in doing so you limit what you can create in the passing game.

Bills haven’t done a lot of that even with Brown so they probably won’t. Probably because Allen is an escape artist. But most OLs have a weak link. Hopefully ours is just Brown next year.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GETTOTHE50]

holy ***** that was terrible

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bills haven’t done a lot of that even with Brown so they probably won’t. Probably because Allen is an escape artist. But most OLs have a weak link. Hopefully ours is just Brown next year.

 

I also think they believe (and to an extent I agree) that if you can keep the blindside secure and the middle clean you can let Josh account for the rusher round right tackle. It is in his field of vision and if they beat Brown he can step up / escape / make them miss. The problem much of the last two years but especially 2022 was the middle collapsed too.

[bmur66]

And that stiff went to the Pro Bowl

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I also think they believe (and to an extent I agree) that if you can keep the blindside secure and the middle clean you can let Josh account for the rusher round right tackle. It is in his field of vision and if they beat Brown he can step up / escape / make them miss. The problem much of the last two years but especially 2022 was the middle collapsed too.

What’s funny or sad in the video posted is they actually have Singletary chip. I didn’t notice it at first.

[mannc]

Who’s “Connor”?

[Pete]

Don't sleep on Edwards

[Never NEVER Give-up]

5 hours ago, mrags said:

Worst part is Saffold just standing there watching his defender chase Josh all over the field 

You're right - he barely moved and got out of his stance on the play. Wow!

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Brown can be a problem next year but it’s much easier to chip or give some help to Brown then having your OG literally just be a pylon.

Spencer Brown had no last college season due to COVID, then almost no camp, then last year no ota’s,

minicamp, or training camp due to back and neck injuries which is the metaphoric Achilles heel for an O Lineman.

 

Im not making apologies or excuses for him.  I’m simply stating facts and this off season he can participate in all of it, and is most likely healthy.  Kramer has this off season to work with him and advance his development.  That’s why McBeane continue to support him.  They are not quick to pass judgment as his raw talent got him through his rookie season and he put powered everyone.

 

His RAS score is 100.  That’s what Beane, McD, and Dorsey, and Kroger see.

 

Now another poor year and there are no excuses and you’ll hear no argument from me.  I’ve been wrong before like I was ready to give up on Lnox when he finally put it together with his hands and tied the league in 9 touchdown catches two years ago.  The staff was more loyal to him than I.

You guys have no argument from

me on our guards in 22.  Bates and Boettger are nothing but backups.

 

I have cautious optimism on McGovern and Mt. O Cyrus.  This coupled with faster backs and a 6’5” F TE/Slot WR can be the very thing to provide hope this year.  I like many wish we had D. Hop, but that ship sailed.  We’ll have to make the most of our current stable of Diggs, DK squared for 12, Davis, Sherfield, Harty, and Shakir.

 

It’s almost odd to say a team that was #2 and #3 in two important offensive categories to think we can be better.

 

The defense is more about our draft, free agency, and a full year for Tre to get better.

[T master]

I believe those that Beane has brought in will make a big difference this year & hopefully the others will be great depth just incase . The team will look much different & i believe for the better .

 

GO BILLS !! 

[eball]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

$6m doesn't get you much these days. I said it at the time, Von apart I hated what the Bills did in FA in 2022. I know Daquan Jones played well for them too so I take that into account but overall that was a horrific use of money. 

 

$23.5m on one year of Jordan Phillips, one year of Roger Saffold, two years of Tim Settle (who might now be a cut candidate) and OJ Howard (who didn't make it out of camp). So when Beane pleads cap poverty now someone should remind him of how he got there. 

 

This isn't a fire Beane post. He has done a good job for Buffalo overall. But I took a lot of heat at the time for being critical of their 2022 FA strategy (Von apart). But all my worst fears were realised.

 

Fair post.  It's unfortunate Phillips got hurt and Settle didn't develop the way many thought/hoped he would.  Saffold was an unmitigated disaster, however.

 

[Allen2Moulds]

7 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I have no words for what Josh endured last season

 

This certainly is criminal. It's been painfully obvious the last 2 years, that our oline is holding us back. Outside of the Bengals 2 years ago, you don't see teams with average to below average lines in the Superbowl. 

 

1. QB

1b. Oline

2. Pass rush

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Fair post.  It's unfortunate Phillips got hurt and Settle didn't develop the way many thought/hoped he would.  Saffold was an unmitigated disaster, however.

 

 

Phillips had two hamstring injuries. He has a history of hamstring injuries during his time with the Cardinals. And he underperformed when healthy except for week 1. 

 

My problem with Settle was never Settle per se. It was that they felt the need to have 4 established, paid, vets in the DT rotation (at the moment it looks like 5 this year!) and that money comes from other areas on the roster. Whether that is OL, WR, TE, a better backup QB.... a better bet LB this year than AJ... it is the opportunity cost as much as Settle not playing that well IMO.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Spencer Brown had no last college season due to COVID, then almost no camp, then last year no ota’s,

minicamp, or training camp due to back and neck injuries which is the metaphoric Achilles heel for an O Lineman.

 

Im not making apologies or excuses for him.  I’m simply stating facts and this off season he can participate in all of it, and is most likely healthy.  Kramer has this off season to work with him and advance his development.  That’s why McBeane continue to support him.  They are not quick to pass judgment as his raw talent got him through his rookie season and he put powered everyone.

 

His RAS score is 100.  That’s what Beane, McD, and Dorsey, and Kroger see.

 

Now another poor year and there are no excuses and you’ll hear no argument from me.  I’ve been wrong before like I was ready to give up on Lnox when he finally put it together with his hands and tied the league in 9 touchdown catches two years ago.  The staff was more loyal to him than I.

You guys have no argument from

me on our guards in 22.  Bates and Boettger are nothing but backups.

 

I have cautious optimism on McGovern and Mt. O Cyrus.  This coupled with faster backs and a 6’5” F TE/Slot WR can be the very thing to provide hope this year.  I like many wish we had D. Hop, but that ship sailed.  We’ll have to make the most of our current stable of Diggs, DK squared for 12, Davis, Sherfield, Harty, and Shakir.

 

It’s almost odd to say a team that was #2 and #3 in two important offensive categories to think we can be better.

 

The defense is more about our draft, free agency, and a full year for Tre to get better.

My guess is that one of the main reasons PFF had Allen as one their top rated QB's overall was that they understood better then most how badly the Bills O line performed and yet Buffalo's Offense and Allen's stats were still very good.  In fact they were elite. Give Allen an extra second from interior pressure and he will do bad things to opposing teams defenses - bad things.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 hours ago, bmur66 said:

And that stiff went to the Pro Bowl

 

Same way Ruben Brown went to the Pro Bowl every year (although Brown was never THAT bad). If you are a Guard, once your name is known, you are going every year since you're pretty much the only Guard people know.

 

My dad and I used to joke that all the opposing Defenders voted Ruben in every year just to keep him around so they could play against him.

 

Same here for Saffold.

[eball]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Phillips had two hamstring injuries. He has a history of hamstring injuries during his time with the Cardinals. And he underperformed when healthy except for week 1. 

 

My problem with Settle was never Settle per se. It was that they felt the need to have 4 established, paid, vets in the DT rotation (at the moment it looks like 5 this year!) and that money comes from other areas on the roster. Whether that is OL, WR, TE, a better backup QB.... a better bet LB this year than AJ... it is the opportunity cost as much as Settle not playing that well IMO.

 

Phillips hurt his shoulder in W2.  That's the injury that derailed his season.

 

[BillsDad51]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Phillips hurt his shoulder in W2.  That's the injury that derailed his season.

 

I think it was his hammy in week 2. He was sprinting all out to escort Milano on his pick 6 against Tannehill and went down with no contact. He hurt his shoulder later in the season while trying to make a diving tackle on a scrambling Mac Jones.

[aceman_16]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It's unfair to judge a veteran player like Saffold just by one rep.  That's why you need to watch all of them last year to truly grasp how terrible he was.

But but....he MADE THE PRO BOWL!!!

[JohnNord]

7 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I have no words for what Josh endured last season

 

I think sometimes we underestimate just how BAD Saffold was.  Despite this…the Bills never attempted to replace him which is almost as scary.  I’m not so sure how much worse they’d be with Greg Van Roten or a returning Ike Boettger.   You can scheme ways to help pressure off the edges but it’s harder when the pressure is coming up the middle.  This is why I think they invested on interior OL talent 
 

Saffold was a Kromer guy - who I think has multiple strikes against him as OL Coach.  He needs a big year to his job.

 

 

[Fleezoid]

10 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

My guess is that one of the main reasons PFF had Allen as one their top rated QB's overall was that they understood better then most how badly the Bills O line performed and yet Buffalo's Offense and Allen's stats were still very good.  In fact they were elite. Give Allen an extra second from interior pressure and he will do bad things to opposing teams defenses - bad things.

 

 

 

Can't resist.

 

From defense to offense......

 

[eball]

2 minutes ago, BillsDad51 said:

I think it was his hammy in week 2. He was sprinting all out to escort Milano on his pick 6 against Tannehill and went down with no contact. He hurt his shoulder later in the season while trying to make a diving tackle on a scrambling Mac Jones.

 

Maybe you're right.  It's all a blur. 

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Phillips hurt his shoulder in W2.  That's the injury that derailed his season.

 

 

Nope. Week 2 was hamstring. He did it chasing down the field on Milano's pick 6.

6 minutes ago, BillsDad51 said:

I think it was his hammy in week 2. He was sprinting all out to escort Milano on his pick 6 against Tannehill and went down with no contact. He hurt his shoulder later in the season while trying to make a diving tackle on a scrambling Mac Jones.

 

Yep. He had two different hamstring injuries (or an injury and a re-injury) before the shoulder. 

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

Who’s “Connor”?

The new left guard who is so good that all you have to do is call him by his 1st name & everyone knows who you're talking about.  

[Utah John]

4 hours ago, bmur66 said:

And that stiff went to the Pro Bowl

Well, yeah, but unfortunately he came back.

[mannc]

16 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The new left guard who is so good that all you have to do is call him by his 1st name & everyone knows who you're talking about.  

Of course…

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

$6m doesn't get you much these days. I said it at the time, Von apart I hated what the Bills did in FA in 2022. I know Daquan Jones played well for them too so I take that into account but overall that was a horrific use of money. 

 

$23.5m on one year of Jordan Phillips, one year of Roger Saffold, two years of Tim Settle (who might now be a cut candidate) and OJ Howard (who didn't make it out of camp). So when Beane pleads cap poverty now someone should remind him of how he got there. 

 

This isn't a fire Beane post. He has done a good job for Buffalo overall. But I took a lot of heat at the time for being critical of their 2022 FA strategy (Von apart). But all my worst fears were realised.

 

 

I keep hoping Beane is going to get better with the player valuations in free agency.........but he just hasn't gotten there.    He overpaid for McGovern, Hines and Harty as well, IMO.   Maybe McGovern is actually on the rise and becomes a good starter but given what he's shown that deal was extremely generous.   Hines.......I mean, how much is he even going to be used?    Harty was coming off a wasted season so I am not sure how he got more than those $1.7M deals that Beane gave out after he was tapped.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I keep hoping Beane is going to get better with the player valuations in free agency.........but he just hasn't gotten there.    He overpaid for McGovern, Hines and Harty as well, IMO.   Maybe McGovern is actually on the rise and becomes a good starter but given what he's shown that deal was extremely generous.   Hines.......I mean, how much is he even going to be used?    Harty was coming off a wasted season so I am not sure how he got more than those $1.7M deals that Beane gave out after he was tapped.

 

I agree on McGovern. It is a gamble that the ascension he showed last year continues. Similarly agree totally on Hines. On Harty when you look at the guys on those sort of value deals his last healthy season is right in the ballpark. I think that is just an example of some of the stupidity of the WR market to be honest rather than a very obvious overpay by Beane. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Spencer Brown had no last college season due to COVID, then almost no camp, then last year no ota’s,

minicamp, or training camp due to back and neck injuries which is the metaphoric Achilles heel for an O Lineman.

 

Im not making apologies or excuses for him.  I’m simply stating facts and this off season he can participate in all of it, and is most likely healthy.  Kramer has this off season to work with him and advance his development.  That’s why McBeane continue to support him.  They are not quick to pass judgment as his raw talent got him through his rookie season and he put powered everyone.

 

His RAS score is 100.  That’s what Beane, McD, and Dorsey, and Kroger see.

 

Now another poor year and there are no excuses and you’ll hear no argument from me.  I’ve been wrong before like I was ready to give up on Lnox when he finally put it together with his hands and tied the league in 9 touchdown catches two years ago.  The staff was more loyal to him than I.

You guys have no argument from

me on our guards in 22.  Bates and Boettger are nothing but backups.

 

I have cautious optimism on McGovern and Mt. O Cyrus.  This coupled with faster backs and a 6’5” F TE/Slot WR can be the very thing to provide hope this year.  I like many wish we had D. Hop, but that ship sailed.  We’ll have to make the most of our current stable of Diggs, DK squared for 12, Davis, Sherfield, Harty, and Shakir.

 

It’s almost odd to say a team that was #2 and #3 in two important offensive categories to think we can be better.

 

The defense is more about our draft, free agency, and a full year for Tre to get better.

Brown has elite physical abilities. He’s definitely worth the time to develop. Many 1st round picks have started worse than Brown. And yes, he’s had many hurdles early on in his career.

 

I think most people just wanted a competition at RT. Currently no one will challenge Brown at RT unless they move Bates back out to OT. 

[That's No Moon]

8 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I have no words for what Josh endured last season

 

Scenes like this are what give me pause about declaring the Iine fixed. It's not like they inherited Saffold. They went out and signed him intentionally. Line has been a serious blind spot for this front office in general. They have a ton to prove.

[jwhit34]

Guard comparison:

 

2022: Saffold, Bates, VanRoten, Mancz, Boettger, maybe a little Doyle before injured

 

2023: McGovern, Bates, Torrence, Edwards, Boettger, maybe Broeker

 

To me, the improvement of the interior OL is the most important and biggest story line to come out of the offseason as it relates to 2023, with the potential of Kincaid a close second. 

 

The change at RB is story #3. Cook, Harris, Hynes can they combine for around 110 yards from scrimmage per game? Josh throws for 250/game and runs for 35-40 that's an average of almost 400 yards of offense (minus sacks). 

 

The offense will be much better and it was already really good. 

 

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Phillips had two hamstring injuries. He has a history of hamstring injuries during his time with the Cardinals. And he underperformed when healthy except for week 1. 

 

I don't think he "underperformed except for week 1".  Von Miller specifically called out Phillips after several games for the pressure up the middle that let Miller do his thing.

 

I do think the Bills expected Phillips to behave with more sense on the field and not pull his hamstring and tear up his shoulder chasing around the backfield like a nickel corner.

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

My problem with Settle was never Settle per se. It was that they felt the need to have 4 established, paid, vets in the DT rotation (at the moment it looks like 5 this year!) and that money comes from other areas on the roster.

 

Then you're going to fundamentally always have a problem with a roster built to support McDermott's defense, because McDermott believes in DL rotation as a fundamental underpinning of his D.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Beck Water