Justin Houston receiving significant interest - The Bills a potential fit

[Perk71]

Get em

 

Go Bills!!

[Warriorspikes51]

would really like to see a DaQuan Jones extension to open up 4-5 mil in cap 

[DrDawkinstein]

12 years later, @Estro and I are finally vindicated. (Probably way too late tho)

[Chandler#81]

I’m hopeful Groot makes the huge jump this season that predicated his Draft selection. We know the story. Great height, great 1st step, long arms and strong. But lost a full season to Covid so there was fear of a 1st Round flop ala Aron Maybin. He has shown great at times but nowhere near the expectations or consistency that comes with his pick. Obvi, Beane did the best he and scouts could do in that weird year regarding his mindset, background and comps. IF he can burst through this season (7-9 sacks) we could punch our ticket to the Conference Championship providing no setbacks for Von. 
It may not be ‘make or break’ but I think it is..🤔

[JohnNord]

21 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Reportedly we offered Yannick Ngakoue an incentive loaded deal (if ECB and Cover 1 are to be believed) that he turned down.

 

I tend to feel that makes sense given our cap situation and the large amount of finessing we've already done via restructures. I feel like if there were more restructures to be done that Beane was comfortable doing, that he'd have done them by now.

 

DT extensions to free cap space are a popular cap freeing sentiment amongst fans. But Beane has said he won't look to do that until into Training Camp, at the earliest. He wants to see who's looking good, who's interested, and talk to them about numbers first. He may also want to see how Poona Ford looks this year before committing to others.

 

He also said he looked into getting DE's in here post Draft and wasn't able to do it. That's why he claimed Cline and brought in Ray for an extended tryout and decided to sign him.

 

Long story short, I think a move for someone like Houston may have sailed with the signings of Cline and Ray. We currently sit at 9 DE's in Camp, with all 5 of our DE's from last year's 53 returning, Von reportedly on schedule to miss no time (at most a game or two), no cap space with little wiggle room, and 88 of 90 roster spots filled - when Beane said he didn't want to bring 90 to camp. 

 

If Houston were to sign here, he'd have to be agreeable to a fully incentive laden deal for league minimum. That seems to be the most we're willing to do. If we're interested in adding a 10th DE at all at this point. 

Erik Turner is reliable… ECB is a fraud.  I pity anyone who believes his crap

[C.Biscuit97]

Give me all the old, can’t get a job, AARP past rushers!!!

[Mister Defense]

Seems like a good fit, for the right money.

 

Dude gets lots of sacks and QB hits, still, after all of these years.

 

It seems the Bills, with their young players on the line, and player rotation makes it a good fit.

 

Another mentor for the young guys and the kind of playing time where he could still be a difference maker.

[3rdand12]

On 5/17/2023 at 8:45 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

Ok. Then the article clearly states if this thread gets to 200 pages he will sign for the NFL minimum AND buy wings for the whole stadium at the home opener. GO!

Just awwesome BBG thanks

[Thurman#1]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:46 AM, BillsFanForever19 said:

Reportedly we offered Yannick Ngakoue an incentive loaded deal (if ECB and Cover 1 are to be believed) that he turned down.

 

I tend to feel that makes sense given our cap situation and the large amount of finessing we've already done via restructures. I feel like if there were more restructures to be done that Beane was comfortable doing, that he'd have done them by now.

 

DT extensions to free cap space are a popular cap freeing sentiment amongst fans. But Beane has said he won't look to do that until into Training Camp, at the earliest. He wants to see who's looking good, who's interested, and talk to them about numbers first. He may also want to see how Poona Ford looks this year before committing to others.

 

He also said he looked into getting DE's in here post Draft and wasn't able to do it. That's why he claimed Cline and brought in Ray for an extended tryout and decided to sign him.

 

Long story short, I think a move for someone like Houston may have sailed with the signings of Cline and Ray. We currently sit at 9 DE's in Camp, with all 5 of our DE's from last year's 53 returning, Von reportedly on schedule to miss no time (at most a game or two), no cap space with little wiggle room, and 88 of 90 roster spots filled - when Beane said he didn't want to bring 90 to camp. 

 

If Houston were to sign here, he'd have to be agreeable to a fully incentive laden deal for league minimum. That seems to be the most we're willing to do. If we're interested in adding a 10th DE at all at this point. 

 

 

No particular reason to think it would have to be league minimum plus.

 

More likely they're offering somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.5 to $2M, with some incentives on top. If any teams were offering these guys the sort of $5M contracts they'd ideally hope for at this point, they'd probably already have signed by now.

 

And they're probably offering very similar deals to the 7 or 8 good but old DEs out there as FAs that they have interest in. Whoever signs first gets the contract.

 

Those older FAs are most likely not especially interested in spending a ton of time at mini-camps and off-season activities. My guess is they'll start going just about as camps start and some will sign even later than that.

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

We can kick some of the cap hit down the road a year or two with void years. The Browns are doing that with Za’darius Smith’s contract, though all the details are not out yet. Cap hit of about $3M this season on an $11.75M, 1-year deal. They’ll either re-sign him (unlikely) or designate him a 6/1 cut next offseason to push some of the hit out to 2025. They’re being very aggressive with the cap to try to gain an advantage. Obviously there are always risks to that. We will just have to wait and see how aggressive the Bills are willing to be. 

 

 

Of course they can kick cans down the road. But Beane's made it clear he has real limits about doing that. There are consequences. 

 

Houston's not getting a Za'Darius Smith deal. His last deal (Spotrac) Was $3.5M for one year. $2.075M for one year the year before that.

 

And he's a year older and is unfortunately in a market with 7 or 8 very similar guys still unsigned. 

[Sierra Foothills]

5 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Like everyone else we are tied to in a big trade... "I'll believe it when I see it"

 

In this case it would be a free agent signing.

 

5 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m hopeful Groot makes the huge jump this season that predicated his Draft selection. We know the story. Great height, great 1st step, long arms and strong. But lost a full season to Covid so there was fear of a 1st Round flop ala Aron Maybin. He has shown great at times but nowhere near the expectations or consistency that comes with his pick. Obvi, Beane did the best he and scouts could do in that weird year regarding his mindset, background and comps. IF he can burst through this season (7-9 sacks) we could punch our ticket to the Conference Championship providing no setbacks for Von. 
It may not be ‘make or break’ but I think it is..🤔

 

Even if Rousseau does, I'd like to see another pass rusher. You can't have too many, especially when your best edge is in the twilight and the rest are unproven.

 

[ganesh]

3 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

In this case it would be a free agent signing.

 

 

Even if Rousseau does, I'd like to see another pass rusher. You can't have too many, especially when your best edge is in the twilight and the rest are unproven.

 

All the more for Basham and Epenesa to demonstrate being able to put the heat consistently on the opposing QBs. 

[RyanC883]

On 5/17/2023 at 9:56 PM, NewEra said:

Do you really believe that?

 

Yep.  Greg R. was a JAG when Miller was out.  Houston has proven to be able to create for himself.  Next year could be different, but hoping that Greg R. improves is not a strategy for success when you have a proven answer out there.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Only team I see him going to is the Texans. 🤔

*
Q.  Justin Houston?

A.  Just in Houston.

😇

15 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

would really like to see a DaQuan Jones extension to open up 4-5 mil in cap 

That's what she said...

[ExWNYer]

On 5/17/2023 at 8:11 PM, Don Otreply said:

And there in lies the rub…

 

If there is a tug to follow, then Kraft will sign him...

 

On 5/17/2023 at 9:13 PM, John from Riverside said:

Meaning, what?

 

Meaning he/she/it is a Kansas City troll.

[ChevyVanMiller]

15 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m hopeful Groot makes the huge jump this season that predicated his Draft selection. We know the story. Great height, great 1st step, long arms and strong. But lost a full season to Covid so there was fear of a 1st Round flop ala Aron Maybin. He has shown great at times but nowhere near the expectations or consistency that comes with his pick. Obvi, Beane did the best he and scouts could do in that weird year regarding his mindset, background and comps. IF he can burst through this season (7-9 sacks) we could punch our ticket to the Conference Championship providing no setbacks for Von. 
It may not be ‘make or break’ but I think it is..🤔

I agree with your points wholeheartedly, but 7-9 sacks would not be a breakthrough. He quietly had a sneaky breakthrough last season when he posted 8 sacks.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4362506/greg-rousseau

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Yep.  Greg R. was a JAG when Miller was out.  Houston has proven to be able to create for himself.  Next year could be different, but hoping that Greg R. improves is not a strategy for success when you have a proven answer out there.  

🤣 👌 sure thing

[BarleyNY]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Of course they can kick cans down the road. But Beane's made it clear he has real limits about doing that. There are consequences. 

 

Houston's not getting a Za'Darius Smith deal. His last deal (Spotrac) Was $3.5M for one year. $2.075M for one year the year before that.

 

And he's a year older and is unfortunately in a market with 7 or 8 very similar guys still unsigned. 

 

I never said I expect Houston to get a contract like Smith’s. I don’t. My comment was strictly about the Bills’ level of aggressiveness and their options. Many AFC teams are pushing hard this season so the Bills have to decide how they want to play it. Do they want to push in hard this season and deal with the consequences later? Or do they want to play a longer game? As of now it looks like they want to be competitive, but have pulled up shy of really going for it this season. That’s a very defensible strategy especially with the meat grinder the AFC looks to be, but it does temper my expectations for the season. Not that the off-season is over yet. Things could change. 

[Success]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I never said I expect Houston to get a contract like Smith’s. I don’t. My comment was strictly about the Bills’ level of aggressiveness and their options. Many AFC teams are pushing hard this season so the Bills have to decide how they want to play it. Do they want to push in hard this season and deal with the consequences later? Or do they want to play a longer game? As of now it looks like they want to be competitive, but have pulled up shy of really going for it this season. That’s a very defensible strategy especially with the meat grinder the AFC looks to be, but it does temper my expectations for the season. Not that the off-season is over yet. Things could change. 

 

Agreed, and Beane has stated a few times that he's not interested in trying to go all in for one season by compromising our competitiveness in future years.  He wants us to be a contender every year that we have Allen - which coincidentally is exactly what I want.

 

That said, I'm kind of blown away by this offseason.  Knowing our cap situation, I didn't see us doing much of anything.  Instead, we have upgrades at both guard positions, RB, WR and TE.  Kincaid could end up being our Kelce, and will create match-up problems for defenses.  Even a signing like Ford is going to be pretty impactful.  Beane really looked at that Cincy game and made upgrades based on that - we're more physical, we should have a better run game, our receivers have better hands and YAC. 

 

I keep seeing on other boards that the Bills are "taking a step back." I think the 2023 team will be our best yet.

 

[BarleyNY]

34 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Agreed, and Beane has stated a few times that he's not interested in trying to go all in for one season by compromising our competitiveness in future years.  He wants us to be a contender every year that we have Allen - which coincidentally is exactly what I want.

 

That said, I'm kind of blown away by this offseason.  Knowing our cap situation, I didn't see us doing much of anything.  Instead, we have upgrades at both guard positions, RB, WR and TE.  Kincaid could end up being our Kelce, and will create match-up problems for defenses.  Even a signing like Ford is going to be pretty impactful.  Beane really looked at that Cincy game and made upgrades based on that - we're more physical, we should have a better run game, our receivers have better hands and YAC. 

 

I keep seeing on other boards that the Bills are "taking a step back." I think the 2023 team will be our best yet.

 

 

I certainly don’t fault the Bills for taking a long term approach. I’m a little shocked by the degree to which some other AFC teams have pushed in this season though.

 

I’m not quite as high on the team this season as most others. Part of that is the increased competition. Also I almost always take a wait-and-see approach to draft picks and non-premium FA signings. I like that the OGs were addressed, but we have to wait and see how (and when) that works out. I do not like that we haven’t addressed OT.

 

Kincaid looks very promising as a receiving TE/big slot, but I’m certainly not anointing him the next Kelce yet. I don’t like that WR really wasn’t improved. RB seems like it’s a push from last year too. I think we will see an improvement in our running game if the OGs improve with Torrence getting on the field. 

 

The defense’s success will likely depend on the return to form of Miller and White as well as how well Edmunds has been replaced. Maybe there will be a play calling improvement with McDermott taking the reins too. 

 

I don’t mean to pee in anyone’s Cheerios - especially at this time of year. Sometimes everything clicks and that’s possible for the Bills this year, but it is rare. 

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

🤣 👌 sure thing

 

I mean we can disagree here, but i'm not sure how Rousseau is better than Houston?  

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

I thought Beane was going to take an EDGE in the draft.

 

But Houston will do.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 5/17/2023 at 4:26 PM, JerseyBills said:

I have hope AJ could have a breakout year coming into a contract year.

He has flashed in the past Just inconsistent. Especially when Von gets back but as of now he'd be getting like 3-5 mil per year I'd think 

Basham and Epenesa are not long for this team. Love to land either Houston or Floyd but we don't have the cap?  Von can't do it all himself and we'll see what we get out of Rousseau?  Maybe Ray makes the team?

Edited May 19, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I mean we can disagree here, but i'm not sure how Rousseau is better than Houston?  

Ok

[BillsFan619]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ok

NewEra, are you playing nice, bro?

 

🤣😃🤣

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, BillsFan619 said:

NewEra, are you playing nice, bro?

 

🤣😃🤣

🤣 

 

I’m trying my best!! 
 

🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[dollars 2 donuts]

On 5/17/2023 at 8:25 PM, 3rdand12 said:

I have wanted this guy for years.
 Flame away but i had no interest in Miller. Because of salary more than anything

 Would have preferred  Houston. Before he went to Ravens. And he did a nice job there !

We would still have money to sign another like Yannick or whatever.
 

But just imagine lining Miller and Houston up on the same down.

 GAWD
 

 

 

You...have...

 

...

 

...bad hair.

 

 

That's the best I got.  It's Friday.

 

3/12, no lie, the Miller signing sort of scared the heck out of me due to age and money.  Love "the guy" but don't love the age, money and then getting sidelined.  You want to tell me they signed (insert name) for $22 million per and he is 27, sure.  I could be a little more on board.  

 

Go Bills!

 

EDIT:  Jeepers creepers, it's just kind of frustrating.  20 Mill and hands down best player on D, but is old and gets sidelined, previously the best player on D at 17 plus Mill gets sidelined and then we have a number of picks and a number of guys on the D-Line that are just sort of JAGS, or JADL if you prefer.

 

...Throw in that we didn't have six million measly dollars per for 3 years for Harry who was rocking it by the end of 21 and we already had an investment in?

 

Whatevs.  That's why I don't make the really big bucks.  That and because I am iron deficient.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

You...have...

 

...

 

...bad hair.

 

 

That's the best I got.  It's Friday.

 

3/12, no lie, the Miller signing sort of scared the heck out of me due to age and money.  Love "the guy" but don't love the age, money and then getting sidelined.  You want to tell me they signed (insert name) for $22 million per and he is 27, sure.  I could be a little more on board.  

 

Go Bills!

 

EDIT:  Jeepers creepers, it's just kind of frustrating.  20 Mill and hands down best player on D, but is old and gets sidelined, previously the best player on D at 17 plus Mill gets sidelined and then we have a number of picks and a number of guys on the D-Line that are just sort of JAGS, or JADL if you prefer.

 

...Throw in that we didn't have six million measly dollars per for 3 years for Harry who was rocking it by the end of 21 and we already had an investment in?

 

Whatevs.  That's why I don't make the really big bucks.  That and because I am iron deficient.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks !

 and you are quite correct. Bad hair day everyday for me .
yes and age is a big deal in regard to Miller contract.

I know McBeanes like this mentor by example (Vets who fit his ethical mold )  thing but ,

There are at least two guys still on the FA boards I would like to have over him.

And not that Von is not a monster !!
 

 Its really hindsight on my part though at this point

 

But i really wish we had Houston here pre ravens. or now. I like him over Yannick as well !

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

Thanks !

 and you are quite correct. Bad hair day everyday for me .
yes and age is a big deal in regard to Miller contract.

I know McBeanes like this mentor by example (Vets who fit his ethical mold )  thing but ,

There are at least two guys still on the FA boards I would like to have over him.

And not that Von is not a monster !!
 

 Its really hindsight on my part though at this point

 

But i really wish we had Houston here pre ravens. or now. I like him over Yannick as well !

Try more red meats for that iron thingie. 💪

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Basham and Epenesa are not long for this team. Love to land either Houston or Floyd but we don't have the cap?  Von can't do it all himself and we'll see what we get out of Rousseau?  Maybe Ray makes the team?

Von certainly can't do it alone but the DL was dominant in a few games prior to his injury.  He makes the whole line better

Agreed on AJ and Boogie but they're still legit nfl rotational players that'll land somewhere,  it's not like they'll be out of the league but definitely have not lived up to their draft picks

[jlgarsh]

Wouldn’t be surprised to see AJ & Boogie traded/cut. Good opportunity to get more picks if they can find a guy opposite Von for a year or 2 

[Eastport bills]

If Beane could somehow fit Houston,Ingram or Floyd underneath the cap with some slight of hand artistry, we would look pretty intimidating on both sides of the ball.

[Rigotz]

On 5/19/2023 at 11:54 AM, BarleyNY said:

 

I certainly don’t fault the Bills for taking a long term approach. I’m a little shocked by the degree to which some other AFC teams have pushed in this season though.

 

I’m not quite as high on the team this season as most others. Part of that is the increased competition. Also I almost always take a wait-and-see approach to draft picks and non-premium FA signings. I like that the OGs were addressed, but we have to wait and see how (and when) that works out. I do not like that we haven’t addressed OT.

 

Kincaid looks very promising as a receiving TE/big slot, but I’m certainly not anointing him the next Kelce yet. I don’t like that WR really wasn’t improved. RB seems like it’s a push from last year too. I think we will see an improvement in our running game if the OGs improve with Torrence getting on the field. 

 

The defense’s success will likely depend on the return to form of Miller and White as well as how well Edmunds has been replaced. Maybe there will be a play calling improvement with McDermott taking the reins too. 

 

I don’t mean to pee in anyone’s Cheerios - especially at this time of year. Sometimes everything clicks and that’s possible for the Bills this year, but it is rare. 

 

This seems pretty needlessly negative...

 

You don't think WR was improved?

It's the same players, but they added Deonte Harty and Trent Sherfield, with Shakir and Davis having more experience under their belt.

How is that not better? Do you think Isaiah McKenzie is better than Deonte Harty? And that's expecting nothing from Justin Shorter.

 

How is RB a push?

Damien Harris is an actual short distance running back and 3rd down pass protector. We didn't even have that last year.

It also shouldn't be understated that James Cook will have a significantly bigger role this year, which is a good thing, as he doesn't have the speed and pass catching limitations we experienced with Singletary.

 

Totally fine if you don't think this is a better team overall compared to last year, but saying WR and RB are a push or haven't improved seems very negative.

 

[NewEra]

43 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

This seems pretty needlessly negative...

 

You don't think WR was improved?

It's the same players, but they added Deonte Harty and Trent Sherfield, with Shakir and Davis having more experience under their belt.

How is that not better? Do you think Isaiah McKenzie is better than Deonte Harty? And that's expecting nothing from Justin Shorter.

 

How is RB a push?

Damien Harris is an actual short distance running back and 3rd down pass protector. We didn't even have that last year.

It also shouldn't be understated that James Cook will have a significantly bigger role this year, which is a good thing, as he doesn't have the speed and pass catching limitations we experienced with Singletary.

 

Totally fine if you don't think this is a better team overall compared to last year, but saying WR and RB are a push or haven't improved seems very negative.

 

Agreed.  I think WR is definitely improved.  Our slot WR went from a dirty lil midgeee to Dalton fricken Kincaid.  People may call him a TE, but I think he’s a huge WR (with beastly RB potential for a slot).  
 

I understand those saying that Harty and Sherfield aren’t great upgrades over dirty and Kumerow.  Statistically, there’s an argument.  But I think if Harty and Sherfield were on the bills last year, they’d have had better seasons.  The eye test on Harty says he’s much better than dirty imo. His problem is injury.  Big problem to have. I think Sherfield is superior to Kumerow in every way. It’s not really a debate.  
 

regarding the RB-  I think motor is better than Harris….. but I think Harris is a better compliment to cook.  He gives us something we need. Some power up the middle other than JA.   Player to player it may not be an upgrade-  but considering the fit, I think Harris is better for our team. And Murray is a very good option as RB4.

 

I think our playmakers have been improved a great deal.  Maybe not the splash some we’re hoping for, but combined with the IOL improvements, I think we’re in for a treat.  
 

Did I mention DK86 for HoF this post?  There you go 

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

This seems pretty needlessly negative...

 

You don't think WR was improved?

It's the same players, but they added Deonte Harty and Trent Sherfield, with Shakir and Davis having more experience under their belt.

How is that not better? Do you think Isaiah McKenzie is better than Deonte Harty? And that's expecting nothing from Justin Shorter.

 

How is RB a push?

Damien Harris is an actual short distance running back and 3rd down pass protector. We didn't even have that last year.

It also shouldn't be understated that James Cook will have a significantly bigger role this year, which is a good thing, as he doesn't have the speed and pass catching limitations we experienced with Singletary.

 

Totally fine if you don't think this is a better team overall compared to last year, but saying WR and RB are a push or haven't improved seems very negative.

 

 

 As for WR, going into last year the expectations for Davis were a lot higher than right now. I think most of us know who he is - a solid #2 WR with limitations to his effective route tree. If you want to call him a push, okay. Diggs and Shakir are a push too. Last season we had McKenzie Kumerow and Crowder. This season we have Harty, Shorter and Sherfield. Crowder got injured (as I’m sure some will this year), but he’s better than all of the three that replaced him. I think calling it a push was a tad generous if anything.

 

Motor is a good back. So is Harris. I see that as a push. Hines and Cook are the same as last year. I’d certainly rather have Murray than Taiwan Jones, so I guess that is an upgrade. Still, he’s 33 so my expectations are not sky high. But, sure, I can revise my take to a modest upgrade at RB.

 

I’m just looking at this team to see it for what it is. Sometimes that is a positive take and sometimes it’s not. Either way it has to do with my honest take on a situation. I understand that if I do not have a fawningly favorable take about everything Bills, that it won’t be well received here. Just like people told me how dumb and negative I was when I said that Tyrod Taylor was a bottom tier starting QB that had no chance of getting the Bills to a SB. It is what it is. 

[jethro_tull]

he led the ravens with 9.5 sacks last season in 14 games.  he likes to sign late and many signs point to him being re-signed by the ravens unfortunately 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 5/19/2023 at 2:29 PM, RyanC883 said:

 

I mean we can disagree here, but i'm not sure how Rousseau is better than Houston?  

 

For one,  Rousseau is maybe the best DE against the run in the league.   He tied for the league lead in run stops for a DL.......a counting stat.......as a rookie in 2021 despite playing only 49% of the snaps.   His tackle radius is obscene and with those gigantic hands he does not miss tackles.  We've come to take it for granted that ball carriers his way just get tackled.......like an old 16 bit video game.  His pass rush game is still developing but he put up excellent pressure and sack numbers there and figures to improve more this season as well.  

 

Houston did have a really good numbers season last year but the year before he did not.    He's really just an excellent situational pass rusher at this point.   His days of playing close to 50% of snaps should be over.   I'd say he needs to be around 30% to get the max production.   Good fit for the Bills, IMO, but he's really not a starter in the NFL anymore.  

 

Ideally though,  you have a bendy edge rusher like Von at RDE forcing QB's to step up and then Rousseau can level up and use his elite GPS to stack up sacks.   I think Houston is a bit more of closed quarters, hand fighting pass rusher at this point.   Lot of his production came from the inside shoulder of the tackle inward this past season.

[Rigotz]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

 As for WR, going into last year the expectations for Davis were a lot higher than right now. I think most of us know who he is - a solid #2 WR with limitations to his effective route tree. If you want to call him a push, okay. Diggs and Shakir are a push too. Last season we had McKenzie Kumerow and Crowder. This season we have Harty, Shorter and Sherfield. Crowder got injured (as I’m sure some will this year), but he’s better than all of the three that replaced him. I think calling it a push was a tad generous if anything.

 

Motor is a good back. So is Harris. I see that as a push. Hines and Cook are the same as last year. I’d certainly rather have Murray than Taiwan Jones, so I guess that is an upgrade. Still, he’s 33 so my expectations are not sky high. But, sure, I can revise my take to a modest upgrade at RB.

 

I’m just looking at this team to see it for what it is. Sometimes that is a positive take and sometimes it’s not. Either way it has to do with my honest take on a situation. I understand that if I do not have a fawningly favorable take about everything Bills, that it won’t be well received here. Just like people told me how dumb and negative I was when I said that Tyrod Taylor was a bottom tier starting QB that had no chance of getting the Bills to a SB. It is what it is. 

I’ll probably sign out of the thread after this last comment, because it’s clear you’re set on being negative about the 2023 roster.

 

Why on earth are you adding Jameson Crowder into this comparison when he didn’t even play in 2022? Unless your assumption is that Harty, Shorter, and Sherfield will get injured they simply have to be an upgrade to a player who didn’t play.

 

You’re also for some reason accounting for zero growth from Cook and Shakir and calling that a push as well. No problem if you think Gabe doesn’t benefit from another year, but you really think two rookies who got better as the season went on won’t continue to grow this year?

 

Man… we really can’t have nice things around this place.

[Thrivefourfive]

Gives heem hees mahneez

[NewEra]

32 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I’ll probably sign out of the thread after this last comment, because it’s clear you’re set on being negative about the 2023 roster.

 

Why on earth are you adding Jameson Crowder into this comparison when he didn’t even play in 2022? Unless your assumption is that Harty, Shorter, and Sherfield will get injured they simply have to be an upgrade to a player who didn’t play.

 

You’re also for some reason accounting for zero growth from Cook and Shakir and calling that a push as well. No problem if you think Gabe doesn’t benefit from another year, but you really think two rookies who got better as the season went on won’t continue to grow this year?

 

Man… we really can’t have nice things around this place.

Adding crowder to the mix is the only way to even the scale. 

joe Marino discusses this topic right here. 

 

In his estimation:  

We’ve definitely improved at WR.  

We’ve definitely improved at RB.

We’ve definitely improved at TE

We’ve definitely improved at OL

 

I agree with Joe in this case.  

 

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

 As for WR, going into last year the expectations for Davis were a lot higher than right now. I think most of us know who he is - a solid #2 WR with limitations to his effective route tree. If you want to call him a push, okay. Diggs and Shakir are a push too. Last season we had McKenzie Kumerow and Crowder. This season we have Harty, Shorter and Sherfield. Crowder got injured (as I’m sure some will this year), but he’s better than all of the three that replaced him. I think calling it a push was a tad generous if anything.

 

Motor is a good back. So is Harris. I see that as a push. Hines and Cook are the same as last year. I’d certainly rather have Murray than Taiwan Jones, so I guess that is an upgrade. Still, he’s 33 so my expectations are not sky high. But, sure, I can revise my take to a modest upgrade at RB.

 

I’m just looking at this team to see it for what it is. Sometimes that is a positive take and sometimes it’s not. Either way it has to do with my honest take on a situation. I understand that if I do not have a fawningly favorable take about everything Bills, that it won’t be well received here. Just like people told me how dumb and negative I was when I said that Tyrod Taylor was a bottom tier starting QB that had no chance of getting the Bills to a SB. It is what it is. 

 

You say Crowder is better. But we didn't have Crowder for 90% of the 2022 Campaign. So I don't know how you can even count him.

 

You also said nothing about Dalton Kincaid. This idea of looking at the WR core in a vacuum of who is technically listed as a WR and excluding Kincaid that's been going around is so flawed.

 

Kincaid is more WR than he is TE. I expect he'll be on the field in the slot, alongside Diggs and Davis on most downs. He may become our actual #2 WR and will at the very least take coverage off of Davis, allowing him to work more as what he did in years prior as opposed to last season.