Bills won the draft. Change my mind

[DJB]

I guess we love PFF again?!?!

[RiotAct]

Always liked PFF, you know.

[Punching Bag]

Hard to win the draft with only 5 picks.

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think the Bills punted on the draft starting with the Dorian Williams pick in the 3rd.

 

The concept of value just went out the window.

 

Honestly after Torrence they should have just traded all the rest of their picks for next years Draft. 
 

If Kincaid turns out to be a HOFer the class is good, but otherwise I think they got next to nothing.

 

Browns had a good draft, I still like what the Lions did, Steelers of course had a nice draft. 

 

Bengals not getting any of the elite TEs, WRs or OTs made me happy. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Not sure there was a top 7-8 team who helped themselves more.  Maybe the Ravens.  Maybe Philly.  We arguably added 2 top flight starters to the offense.  To a team that was 13-3.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think the Bills punted on the draft starting with the Dorian Williams pick in the 3rd.

 

The concept of value just went out the window.

 

Honestly after Torrence they should have just traded all the rest of their picks for next years Draft. 
 

If Kincaid turns out to be a HOFer the class is good, but otherwise I think they got next to nothing.

 

Browns had a good draft, I still like what the Lions did, Steelers of course had a nice draft. 

 

Bengals not getting any of the elite TEs, WRs or OTs made me happy. 

I get what you are saying as value is important. However I believe the concept of value and importance of it is somewhat overblown by fans and pundits. 

 

Sometimes it just boils down to taking a better player that can help your team and fits what you do over value. 

[frostbitmic]

How did the Eagles, Lions and Texans not make this list, seemed like the entire draft was about those three teams.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

I get what you are saying as value is important. However I believe the concept of value and importance of it is somewhat overblown by fans and pundits. 

 

Sometimes it just boils down to taking a better player that can help your team and fits what you do over value. 

Beane said it - the Bills started talking about Special Teams in Round 3. 
 

Williams he was talking about Special Teams.

 

Shorter was Special Teams.

 

It felt like to me, after Torrence, the Bills just mentally exited the draft and took players with no chance to get on the field.

 

No DTs - yes I know Beane said the board didn’t fall their way. The Baylor

DT went right after Williams…

 

No DEs, No OTs (passed on Dewand Jones, Duncan), No Centers. 
 

Just a miniature linebacker, a special teams Kumerow replacement, a backup Guard and long shot corner. 

[Virgil]

Eagles destroyed that draft.  If they aren’t first, the whole article is wrong

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Well if PFF said it, take it to the bank 😂

[Virgil]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane said it - the Bills started talking about Special Teams in Round 3. 
 

Williams he was talking about Special Teams.

 

Shorter was Special Teams.

 

It felt like to me, after Torrence, the Bills just mentally exited the draft and took players with no chance to get on the field.

 

No DTs - yes I know Beane said the board didn’t fall their way. The Baylor

DT went right after Williams…

 

No DEs, No OTs (passed on Dewand Jones, Duncan), No Centers. 
 

Just a miniature linebacker, a special teams Kumerow replacement, a backup Guard and long shot corner. 

Everyone passed on those guys.  It was a crap draft 

[iccrewman112]

17 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think the Bills punted on the draft starting with the Dorian Williams pick in the 3rd.

 

The concept of value just went out the window.

 

Honestly after Torrence they should have just traded all the rest of their picks for next years Draft.

exactly my thoughts. Superb Through round 2 then just disappointment after disappointment with the picks in my opinion.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Eagles were also who came to mind

[frostbitmic]

17 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane said it - the Bills started talking about Special Teams in Round 3. 
 

Williams he was talking about Special Teams.

 

Shorter was Special Teams.

 

It felt like to me, after Torrence, the Bills just mentally exited the draft and took players with no chance to get on the field.

 

No DTs - yes I know Beane said the board didn’t fall their way. The Baylor

DT went right after Williams…

 

No DEs, No OTs (passed on Dewand Jones, Duncan), No Centers. 
 

Just a miniature linebacker, a special teams Kumerow replacement, a backup Guard and long shot corner. 

If you're not a starter you're either playing special teams or riding the pine. Williams will compete with the field for the 2nd starting LB job.

 

The Kumerow replacement is Shorter.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

14 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Everyone passed on those guys.  It was a crap draft 

No it wasn’t, I gave examples of the players in the 3rd.

 

For instance, Jacksonville took Yasir Abdullah in the mid-5th.

 

6’-1” but 237 pounds, ran a faster 40, better vertical and broad with more production. Played linebacker/edge at Louisville.

 

That pick right there showed me the Bills just punted on value. Jaguars got a better athlete, with more weight at the same height, at the same position a round and a half later (45-picks) than the Bills did. 

[T master]

I'm not so sure of the A grade a TE that is more of a WR & his blocking skills need work plus they lost a pick to get him, 2 O linemen that are graded as very good run blocking guards in a offense that by their first pick says they are a passing offense, a OLB in the 3rd when ILB was a need & a Ala LB which was the best on the board was there .

 

I will admit i am only a fan & i don't have the experience that the scouts & all do but if a top player is there when the Bills pick which is a need i can't for the life of me figure why they wouldn't grab them . Okay the "experts say that neither Campbell or Sanders were first round picks but seeing as Beane has said the kid from Tulane will start as a OLB & ST's who is the MLB ? 

 

The only thing we can hope for as fans is that Beane & his scouts know much much more than we do & i will back them until i see what these drafty's turn out to be .

 

GO BILLS !! 

Edited April 30, 2023 by T master

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

 

The Kumerow replacement is Shorter.

My point exactly. 

1 minute ago, T master said:

I'm not so sure of the A grade a TE that is more of a WR & his blocking skills need work plus they lost a pick to get him, 2 O linemen that are graded as very good run blocking guards in a offense that by their first pick says they are a passing offense, a OLB in the 3rd when ILB was a need & a Ala LB which was the best on the board was there .

 

I will admit i am only a fan & i don't have the experience that the scouts & all do but if a top player is there when the Bills pick which is a need i can't for the life of me figure why they wouldn't grab them . Okay the "experts say that neither Campbell or Sanders were first round picks but seeing as Beane has said the kid from Tulane will start as a OLB & ST's who is the MLB ? 

 

The only thing we can hope for as fans is that Beane & his scouts know much much more than we do & i will back them until i see what these drafty's turn out to be .

 

GO BILLS !! 

Beane acknowledged that “everyone is worried about it” but he feels they have the right guys.

[BuffaloBillyG]

20 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane said it - the Bills started talking about Special Teams in Round 3. 
 

Williams he was talking about Special Teams.

 

Shorter was Special Teams.

 

It felt like to me, after Torrence, the Bills just mentally exited the draft and took players with no chance to get on the field.

 

No DTs - yes I know Beane said the board didn’t fall their way. The Baylor

DT went right after Williams…

 

No DEs, No OTs (passed on Dewand Jones, Duncan), No Centers. 
 

Just a miniature linebacker, a special teams Kumerow replacement, a backup Guard and long shot corner. 

Yes, typically a lot of teams start to talk about guys that can help on ST in their rookie year right around the 3rd round. Easiest way to make sure that guy makes the active GameDay roster as a rookie.  That doesn't mean they can't or won't contribute in other ways. You do realize that, right? 

 

Seems like a lot of teams passed on Jones. Over and over again . Why do you believe that was a miss? 32 teams felt comfortable passing on him a lot of times...betting there's reasons. Happens every year. Guys that Kiper and his type love that fall far because of other reasons. Without knowing what those reasons are (medicals, attitude, possible criminal charges coming down) first hand....kinda hard to say it is a miss. 

 

The pick of Torrence may very well free up Bates. That takes care of the C pick you want. In addition, there are other guys rostered with C flexibility. 

 

It's obvious that Beane didn't force picks for positions. That's actually a good thing. 

 

[Shaw66]

34 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane said it - the Bills started talking about Special Teams in Round 3. 
 

Williams he was talking about Special Teams.

 

Shorter was Special Teams.

 

It felt like to me, after Torrence, the Bills just mentally exited the draft and took players with no chance to get on the field.

 

No DTs - yes I know Beane said the board didn’t fall their way. The Baylor

DT went right after Williams…

 

No DEs, No OTs (passed on Dewand Jones, Duncan), No Centers. 
 

Just a miniature linebacker, a special teams Kumerow replacement, a backup Guard and long shot corner. 

Well, I hear what you're saying, but I think it misses the point, which is that the Bills are a good team, and it's difficult for anyone other than the top picks to actually make the team.   When you're mediocre, like the Bills were several years ago, it's much more likely that you're going to find a Milano in the draft, because (1) you're drafting higher in each round, and (2) you have needs.   So, a Milano then gets on the field right away and gets to grow.  A fifth rounder now has a much higher hurdle to get over to get on the field.  If you can't see the field, you're development is limited.   Milano got to play, and Edmunds got to play.  One developed, one didn't.   So, there's that.  

 

Also, because you're playing for championships, you're much more likely to fill some holes in free agency with guys who are starters or near starters.   You get a Von Miller.   You get a Taylor Rapp, who makes it much harder for a rookie safety to make the squad or for a Hamlin to keep his spot on the team.  

 

Being a good team changes the GM's view of the draft.   Maybe it shouldn't; I wrote something yesterday about how Beane used to say that he was building for the long term, but now it's clear his focus is much more short term.  

 

But I also think what you're missing is the developmental nature of the NFL.   Once you get to the fourth round, certainly the fifth round, you're drafting guys who can't make any except the worst rosters in the NFL.  (There are exceptions, of course, but the better your team, the less likely that your draftees will be exceptions.)  Those guys may have a future in the NFL, but it's only after they've spent a year or two on practice squads, continuing grow their bodies and developing their skills.  Offensive linemen, particularly, come to the NFL unprepared to play the NFL game, and they have to learn and develop before they make it.   So, beyond the third and fourth rounds, you're drafting projects.  All you're looking for are guys with the potential to be good, and you're hoping to get a good yield out of those guys after a year or two of growth.   It's especially true in a weak draft year, which apparently this was.

 

So, yeah, I wasn't completely happy with Beane's focus in this draft, but I'm not sure it's fair.   Beane does everything for a reason.  

[KDIGGZ]

Eagles got 2 pro bowl type players in round 1 alone. This list is a joke

[Shaw66]

18 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

The pick of Torrence may very well free up Bates. That takes care of the C pick you want. In addition, there are other guys rostered with C flexibility. 

 

 

I've wondered about this.  Is Bates actually the long-term answer at center?   I doubt it.   If he were, he would have taken Morse's job by now.   But maybe I'm wrong.   Actually, maybe this season, with solutions at guard, Bates does take Morse's job.  Maybe that's been the plan: get the guards you really want so you don't need to use Bates out of position. 

 

I don't know.   I expected the Bills take a center this year.  We'll see where it goes. 

[CSBill]

7 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Eagles got 2 pro bowl type players in round 1 alone. This list is a joke

I doubt it. 

[bills6969]

I’m super happy with our draft for only having 5 picks. Filled almost all our needs.  Got Josh the best pass catcher in the draft in Kincaid. Interior Oline was a weakness and we drafted 2 there and replaced Edmunds with a stud LB.

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, bills6969 said:

I’m super happy with our draft for only having 5 picks. Filled almost all our needs.  Got Josh the best pass catcher in the draft in Kincaid. Interior Oline was a weakness and we drafted 2 there and replaced Edmunds with a stud LB.

I think Williams is a good player, but to say they replaced edmunds with him is way off. They literally came out and said he would be Milanos backup. They all but said he wouldn’t even compete for MLB. 

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

I guess we love PFF again?!?!

We all must find forgiveness in our hearts.

 

Those who are without sin, cast the first stone!

 

PFF ROCKS!!!.......

 

at least until they diss JA17 again.😂

[dgrochester55]

A good draft in my opinion, but too early to call it an A and not the best one in the NFL.   The first two picks were nailed with receiving help for Josh Allen in Kincaid and an instant upgrade of the interior line in Torrance.    The latter part addressed position needs, but whether or not these people can contribute will remain to be seen.     I do not think that Dorian Williams is a bad pick like many others do, but can understand the concern of others that we might have added another Terrell Bernard.    Shorter is a complete boom or bust pick, but most likely needs a couple years of development before they add to the team.    I don't know anything about Broeker and Austin, but no one in the 7th round is a reach(as some others were saying).     They are competition for depth as late round picks are expected to be.

 

After the draft, linebacker is the biggest question mark.     Can Bernard or Williams replace the production of Edmunds?  We won't know until the time comes.    The offense is now significantly better which is what many of us wanted.    That to me is a big success.     There have been a lot of misses in the last three years, I am hoping that this trend changes with the draft.   We will see what happens.  

Edited April 30, 2023 by dgrochester55

[NewEra]

51 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

No it wasn’t, I gave examples of the players in the 3rd.

 

For instance, Jacksonville took Yasir Abdullah in the mid-5th.

 

6’-1” but 237 pounds, ran a faster 40, better vertical and broad with more production. Played linebacker/edge at Louisville.

 

That pick right there showed me the Bills just punted on value. Jaguars got a better athlete, with more weight at the same height, at the same position a round and a half later (45-picks) than the Bills did. 

You need meds.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

How did the Eagles, Lions and Texans not make this list, seemed like the entire draft was about those three teams.

 

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Eagles destroyed that draft.  If they aren’t first, the whole article is wrong

 

23 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Eagles got 2 pro bowl type players in round 1 alone. This list is a joke

 

Because...

 

Eagles destroyed all others

[JGMcD2]

52 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

No it wasn’t, I gave examples of the players in the 3rd.

 

For instance, Jacksonville took Yasir Abdullah in the mid-5th.

 

6’-1” but 237 pounds, ran a faster 40, better vertical and broad with more production. Played linebacker/edge at Louisville.

 

That pick right there showed me the Bills just punted on value. Jaguars got a better athlete, with more weight at the same height, at the same position a round and a half later (45-picks) than the Bills did. 

Any breakdown of his ability to play football or we’re just conflating RAS with value? They also play different positions… 

[BuffaloBillyG]

28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I've wondered about this.  Is Bates actually the long-term answer at center?   I doubt it.   If he were, he would have taken Morse's job by now.   But maybe I'm wrong.   Actually, maybe this season, with solutions at guard, Bates does take Morse's job.  Maybe that's been the plan: get the guards you really want so you don't need to use Bates out of position. 

 

I don't know.   I expected the Bills take a center this year.  We'll see where it goes. 

I am with you where I expected the Bills to snag a C. There seemed to be some good ones coming in this year.

 

As for Bates, I know they seem to like him at that spot. At very worst I think Bates backs up Morse. And while I still think Morse is a solid vet player...spending what we do on him with the concussion history is risky. I could see this being Mitch 's last year in Buffalo, taking a C next year and Bates working as a bridge starter in 2024. As you say, we shall see where it goes. But I know I'm looking forward to seeing the IOL battle that's coming up. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I get what you are saying as value is important. However I believe the concept of value and importance of it is somewhat overblown by fans who know very little, but think they are experts in the subject and pundits. 

 

Sometimes it just boils down to taking a better player that can help your team and fits what you do over value. 

 

Fixed it for you

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I think Williams is a good player, but to say they replaced edmunds with him is way off. They literally came out and said he would be Milanos backup. They all but said he wouldn’t even compete for MLB. 

Beane also backtracked slightly yesterday  on being Milanos backup. I forgot what he said to the word, but it was along the lines of:  we’ll start him outside for now, but we’ll see what happens.  You never know.  

 

I could be totally off but I saw it as if he was trying to temper expectations for the kid this year by saying he’s Milanos backup in the first PC.  Like he was protecting him from ridicule when he isn’t the starter this year.  Then the social media outrage ensued for picking another ST in rd 3S. So he decided to open the door for him at Mike this year  (even if it’s a backup). IF they drafted him to play outside (and keep Milano outside too) It’s a terrible pick imo.  I just don’t believe that was the plan.  I think they drafted him to compete to alongside Milano, but probably not in 2023.  
 

according to my couch evaluations, Williams was a reach and too small to play Mike.  According to many others that aren’t on the couch- Williams has a shot to play the Mike-  he just needs to put on some weight and hit the books.  
 

he’s a sub 4.5 with long limbs and very good tackling ability.  With McD calling the plays I think we’ll see a much greater variety of sub packages.  Rapp, Bernard, Williams, Spector, Klein, Dodson. Different skill sets for different situations.  I think it’ll be mostly nickel, but not 85-100% every game like under Frazier.  

[Pbomb]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane said it - the Bills started talking about Special Teams in Round 3. 
 

Williams he was talking about Special Teams.

 

Shorter was Special Teams.

 

It felt like to me, after Torrence, the Bills just mentally exited the draft and took players with no chance to get on the field.

 

No DTs - yes I know Beane said the board didn’t fall their way. The Baylor

DT went right after Williams…

 

No DEs, No OTs (passed on Dewand Jones, Duncan), No Centers. 
 

Just a miniature linebacker, a special teams Kumerow replacement, a backup Guard and long shot corner. 

So basically they didn’t take guys you wanted or got in your mock draft simulations so their draft sucked

[SCBills]

I wouldn’t disagree that the Bills got an A on this draft.  
 

We’ll have to see what our defensive scheme/philosophy under McDermott is before anyone can properly evaluate the Dorian Williams pick, but the reviews/analysis of him are pretty favorable.  
 

Kincaid and Torrence don’t just make our offense better, they completely change the narrative.   That soft offense that couldn’t protect Josh and resorted to chucking it down the field in our playoff loss has been transformed by adding a monster people mover at G, who is also elite at pass pro, and giving Allen a weapon to attack the middle of the field with.  
 

Day 3, they took a swing on a traitsy WR and then punted on a bad draft… accumulating picks next year and then taking two RD7 guys they knew probably wouldn’t come here as UDFA’s. 
 

There were two ways the Bills could truly upgrade the Offense in the draft.

 

Kincaid, Addison or JSN.  

 

A top tier OL.  
 

They managed to get both. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

So basically they didn’t take guys you wanted or got in your mock draft simulations so their draft sucked

Not at all Pbomb.

 

Just looked at what other teams did and made judgements about the value of the players I think the Bills got. 
 

Another one for instance. AT Perry to the Saints in the 6th. 
 

2,300 yards, 152 catches and 26 TDs at Wake Forest in his final two seasons.

 

6’3”-1/2”, so why is Shorter the better value if every GM we know says “the tape” is the most important thing?
 

Ran faster at the Combine, better agility scores and jump scores as well.

 

Shorter is more muscular, and maybe that’s what the Bills decided, but I don’t see how they got any value past Torrence. 
 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[John from Riverside]

What’s funny is I think one of the greatest things that the general manager did is going to go on talked about for the most part
 

Yes, he got some players that can help us this year. Yes, he addressed offensive line in a big way. Yes he may have gotten us are kelce

 

But one of the big things he did was get us 10 picks going into next year‘s draft, which will be a stronger draft, possibly more if he can swing some trades

 

Next year’s draft is gonna be fun

[skibum]

The Bills had late picks and managed to get two of the very best players at their respective positions. Not too shabby!

[SCBills]

14 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Not at all Pbomb.

 

Just looked at what other teams did and made judgements about the value of the players I think the Bills got. 
 

Another one for instance. AT Perry to the Saints in the 6th. 
 

2,300 yards, 152 catches and 26 TDs at Wake Forest in his final two seasons.

 

6’3”-1/2”, so why is Shorter the better value if every GM we know says “the tape” is the most important thing?
 

Ran faster at the Combine, better agility scores and jump scores as well.

 

Shorter is more muscular, and maybe that’s what the Bills decided, but I don’t see how they got any value past Torrence. 
 

 

I liked AT Perry.  Every time I watched Wake play, he dominated. 
 

That being said, he’s a tall wiry guy, not sure if he plays ST’s and has drops/physicality issues. 
 

Shorter is a freak specimen, plays ST’s, had good hands and wins jump balls. 
 

Two very different WR’s.  Bills don’t have a guy like Shorter on the roster. 
 

Perry, imo, is a safe bet to stick around as an end of the roster WR… perhaps with a WR 2/3 ceiling. 
 

Shorter could eventually be a WR1 in the Tee Higgins mold.   He could also be out of the league in a year or two.  
 

Edited April 30, 2023 by SCBills

[Straight Hucklebuck]

29 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Any breakdown of his ability to play football or we’re just conflating RAS with value? They also play different positions… 

Actually if sacks and TFLs don’t count, just tackles, then yes, Dorian Williams was more productive.

 

Also I addressed the position by saying Abdullah played “edge”.

 

Also, Beane kind of cuts your own argument out from under you because he’s most likely starting on the outside given the complexity of the Bills defense and Tulane’s simple system. All from Beane’s mouth.

 

When Beane talks about how fast and athletic Williams is, it just sticks out to me that Jacksonville picked a bigger player, with better overall measurable, big sack production a round and a half later.

 

Our reporters brought up the obvious fact that Bernard and Williams are virtually the same size. 
 

We all know Williams is not going to be a MIKE linebacker in the NFL at 6’1” 228 pounds. Same with Bernard.

 

Kline is the starter right now. 

[nucci]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think the Bills punted on the draft starting with the Dorian Williams pick in the 3rd.

 

The concept of value just went out the window.

 

Honestly after Torrence they should have just traded all the rest of their picks for next years Draft. 
 

If Kincaid turns out to be a HOFer the class is good, but otherwise I think they got next to nothing.

 

Browns had a good draft, I still like what the Lions did, Steelers of course had a nice draft. 

 

Bengals not getting any of the elite TEs, WRs or OTs made me happy. 

is next to nothing  something?