RD 3, Pick 91: LB Dorian Williams, Tulane

[K-9]

3 hours ago, BeefCurtns said:

I like everything I’m hearing from this kid who seems way more mature than his age. I think by seasons end he will be entrenched as our starting MLB . 

If he has a good camp, I think McD will start him game one.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I’m telling you, don’t be surprised if he turns into an all pro strong safety…he’s got the speed, power and hands…👍

Don’t you think 230 pounds is kind of heavy for a safety

[TheBeaneBandit]

27 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Don’t you think 230 pounds is kind of heavy for a safety

It used to be the prototype , but the game has changed. It would be invaluable if some teams ever went old-school with a power running game though.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

30 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

It used to be the prototype , but the game has changed. It would be invaluable if some teams ever went old-school with a power running game though.

 

I think defense (and probably offense too) in the NFL generally is trending toward "positionless" players or at least those with versatility. 

 

Same for Buffalo:

 

- DE Rousseau can shift inside to DT

 

- DE Miller can play like and is sometimes listed as a LB

 

- "MLB" Bernard is more of a WLB

 

- "MLB" Williams is more of a WLB (and in this thread a S)

 

- OLB Milano was a S

 

- CB Benford might be a S

 

- S Rapp has been and likely will continue to be used as NCB, Big Nickel, and edge blitzer

 

- S Hyde albeit in college mostly has been used as a CB (plus QB and KR/PR)

Edited May 16, 2023 by JohnBonhamRocks

[Sierra Foothills]

8 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I’m telling you, don’t be surprised if he turns into an all pro strong safety…he’s got the speed, power and hands…👍

 

I'll be very surprised if he plays so much as a single down as a safety in the NFL.

 

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

My man does work them shoulders. 
 

 

 

Yes he does.

 

His weight is non-issue to me.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

He’s the exact same build as Roquan - only 5 - 8 lbs lighter.  
 

He can put 5 on by camp and be a MLB in this league at 235.  No doubt in my mind.   
 

Fred Warner is 6’3 and 229.  What are we even worried about here.   
 

The 245 LB MLB days are over.   
 

 

More then I was on draft day I’m near 100% convinced he’ll be the Mike they just need him to earn it.   

[John from Riverside]

27 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

He’s the exact same build as Roquan - only 5 - 8 lbs lighter.  
 

He can put 5 on by camp and be a MLB in this league at 235.  No doubt in my mind.   
 

Fred Warner is 6’3 and 229.  What are we even worried about here.   
 

The 245 LB MLB days are over.   
 

 

More then I was on draft day I’m near 100% convinced he’ll be the Mike they just need him to earn it.   

Let’s face it, Tremaine Edmunds was a freak of nature, physically wise
 

And while I think Edmunds is a good player, he doesn’t hit like a 245 pound linebacker never did

 

Dorian Williams is not small by NFL standards and what doesn’t get talked about enough is those freakishly long arms of his

[PrimeTime101]

11 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Let’s face it, Tremaine Edmunds was a freak of nature, physically wise
 

And while I think Edmunds is a good player, he doesn’t hit like a 245 pound linebacker never did

 

Dorian Williams is not small by NFL standards and what doesn’t get talked about enough is those freakishly long arms of his

He uses those arms in interesting way. HE grabs a body part to do a tackle, and he whips his whole body around while still holding on. With those long arms, it is kind of a sling shot effect. We have not had that guy that knocks down passes a ton on this defense in a long time... he will do well for that. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

16 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

 

I think defense (and probably offense too) in the NFL generally is trending toward "positionless" players or at least those with versatility. 

 

Same for Buffalo:

 

- DE Rousseau can shift inside to DT

 

- DE Miller can play like and is sometimes listed as a LB

 

- "MLB" Bernard is more of a WLB

 

- "MLB" Williams is more of a WLB (and in this thread a S)

 

- OLB Milano was a S

 

- CB Benford might be a S

 

- S Rapp has been and likely will continue to be used as NCB, Big Nickel, and edge blitzer

 

- S Hyde albeit in college mostly has been used as a CB (plus QB and KR/PR)

I would agree with the general concept here.  You can certainly add in TE/WR and our own Dalton Kincaid.

 

I hate to bring in the evil overlord Bill Belichek but he was one pf the first to preach "versatility" of his players and being able to play different positions. One could even stretch the concept that the position of QB morphing is into a QB/RB.

[boyst]

I really hope I eat crow on this dude. I can't believe how everyone is full kool aid on this guy but if Miami, Tennessee, or Houston got him we wouldn't even know he existed now or 5 years from now. 

[JerseyBills]

17 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

 

I think defense (and probably offense too) in the NFL generally is trending toward "positionless" players or at least those with versatility. 

 

Same for Buffalo:

 

- DE Rousseau can shift inside to DT

 

- DE Miller can play like and is sometimes listed as a LB

 

- "MLB" Bernard is more of a WLB

 

- "MLB" Williams is more of a WLB (and in this thread a S)

 

- OLB Milano was a S

 

- CB Benford might be a S

 

- S Rapp has been and likely will continue to be used as NCB, Big Nickel, and edge blitzer

 

- S Hyde albeit in college mostly has been used as a CB (plus QB and KR/PR)

Hyde was used as a jack of all trades type in GB. Lot of nickel CB , sometimes outside even and some S. For McD to bring him in as a full time FS just shows how great he is at bringing along DBs and taking them to next level.  Hyde even said he wasn't sure about playing "center field" because he rarely did in GB but boy was that a phenomenal move 

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

He uses those arms in interesting way. HE grabs a body part to do a tackle, and he whips his whole body around while still holding on. With those long arms, it is kind of a sling shot effect. We have not had that guy that knocks down passes a ton on this defense in a long time... he will do well for that. 

Ya and I been saying,  the thing I'm most impressed and excited about by him is his instincts,  which was Edmunds biggest weakness imo. I'm really excited about Williams 

[RoyBatty is alive]

24 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Hyde was used as a jack of all trades type in GB. Lot of nickel CB , sometimes outside even and some S. For McD to bring him in as a full time FS just shows how great he is at bringing along DBs and taking them to next level.  Hyde even said he wasn't sure about playing "center field" because he rarely did in GB but boy was that a phenomenal move 

Ya and I been saying,  the thing I'm most impressed and excited about by him is his instincts,  which was Edmunds biggest weakness imo. I'm really excited about Williams 

Very eager to see how Edmunds does this year.   My prediction another mediocre year.   He had all the physical tools (esp length which the Bills covet) but lacked the instincts of which Williams has great instincts and speed to react.  Curious to see who had the higher Wonderlic, my money is on Williams.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

I really hope I eat crow on this dude. I can't believe how everyone is full kool aid on this guy but if Miami, Tennessee, or Houston got him we wouldn't even know he existed now or 5 years from now. 

 

This is always true with mid-late round picks. For every Matt Milano or Dre Greenlaw there is a Vosean Joseph. I remember when Miami drafted Jerome Baker thinking that he would turn into something and he has become a solid pro. Some 49ers fan probably said the same stuff when they drafted Warner, and many Bills fans were hyped about Reggie Ragland. 

 

None of any of this past history has anything to do with whether or not Williams will be a success. Some of us are just fans and like to root for players. I am excited to see what Trenton Simpson does in Baltimore almost as much as I am excited about Dorian Williams for us. Nothing wrong with any of this discussion. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

I really hope I eat crow on this dude. I can't believe how everyone is full kool aid on this guy but if Miami, Tennessee, or Houston got him we wouldn't even know he existed now or 5 years from now. 

He’s a late 3rd round pick to me, 4th round graded prospect. What should we expect from him? 

[Bigvinny]

He looks bigger than people said, was expecting the guy to look tiny based on the complainers on here.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Very eager to see how Edmunds does this year.   My prediction another mediocre year.   He had all the physical tools (esp length which the Bills covet) but lacked the instincts of which Williams has great instincts and speed to react.  Curious to see who had the higher Wonderlic, my money is on Williams.

 

Yeah Tremaine is going into a system that is very similar to ours. He is going to be asked to run and cover. Bears fans probably expect the splash plays for the price tag, and when they don't get them, he will be their message board whipping boy. I think he is released after year 3. 

 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He’s a late 3rd round pick to me, 4th round graded prospect. What should we expect from him? 

 

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

This is always true with mid-late round picks. For every Matt Milano or Dre Greenlaw there is a Vosean Joseph. I remember when Miami drafted Jerome Baker thinking that he would turn into something and he has become a solid pro. Some 49ers fan probably said the same stuff when they drafted Warner, and many Bills fans were hyped about Reggie Ragland. 

 

None of any of this past history has anything to do with whether or not Williams will be a success. Some of us are just fans and like to root for players. I am excited to see what Trenton Simpson does in Baltimore almost as much as I am excited about Dorian Williams for us. Nothing wrong with any of this discussion. 

The way everyone is talking he will be a starter day 1!!!🤣

[JohnBonhamRocks]

4 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I would agree with the general concept here.  You can certainly add in TE/WR and our own Dalton Kincaid.

 

I hate to bring in the evil overlord Bill Belichek but he was one pf the first to preach "versatility" of his players and being able to play different positions. One could even stretch the concept that the position of QB morphing is into a QB/RB.

Yep, and I think it boils down to allowing coaches on both sides of the ball to better disguise their calls. 
 

Anytime a coach sees an opposing player on the field who could do a variety of different things post-snap, it creates an amount of uncertainty for that coach. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

22 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Yep, and I think it boils down to allowing coaches on both sides of the ball to better disguise their calls. 
 

Anytime a coach sees an opposing player on the field who could do a variety of different things post-snap, it creates an amount of uncertainty for that coach. 

The more I think about it, in 20 years , the day of a statue pocket QB may be long gone.   I think 10 years ago what 10% of QBs could effectively run, what is it now, 30%?  One more person for the defense to account for.

[Blank Stare]

On 5/16/2023 at 11:06 PM, Big Blitz said:

He’s the exact same build as Roquan - only 5 - 8 lbs lighter.  
 

He can put 5 on by camp and be a MLB in this league at 235.  No doubt in my mind.   
 

Fred Warner is 6’3 and 229.  What are we even worried about here.   
 

The 245 LB MLB days are over.   
 

 

More than I was on draft day I’m near 100% convinced he’ll be the Mike they just need him to earn it.   

Probably been said a million times in this thread, but Nick Bolton with the Chiefs is another good size comp. 6’0 237 and he does just fine. Also, he’s slower at 4.6 forty and shorter arms at 31 7/8 (and wingspan of 76 1/4) than DW. 
 

Admittedly, I knee-jerk hated this pick initially with the Bernard pick last year and the backup to Milano and special teams comments. But I’ve since calmed down and really like his potential with further context. Can’t dislike him just because of the Bernard pick last year. Have to evaluate him individually. I think he’ll get an opportunity to start at the Mike at some point if he can pick up the playbook. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

25 minutes ago, Blank Stare said:

Probably been said a million times in this thread, but Nick Bolton with the Chiefs is another good size comp. 6’0 237 and he does just fine. Also, he’s slower at 4.6 forty and shorter arms at 31 7/8 (and wingspan of 76 1/4) than DW. 
 

Admittedly, I knee-jerk hated this pick initially with the Bernard pick last year and the backup to Milano and special teams comments. But I’ve since calmed down and really like his potential with further context. Can’t dislike him just because of the Bernard pick last year. Have to evaluate him individually. I think he’ll get an opportunity to start at the Mike at some point if he can pick up the playbook. 

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...good or bad. 

 

[Shaw66]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...

Excellent point.  I was disappointed he didn't do more with his opportunities last season, but it's premature to write him off.  But if Williams climbs over him for playing time in the defense this season, then we will know.  

[Mat68]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Excellent point.  I was disappointed he didn't do more with his opportunities last season, but it's premature to write him off.  But if Williams climbs over him for playing time in the defense this season, then we will know.  

The pre season will provide the answer.  Can the guy read, react and make a play.  They are on screen the whole time. Who stands out?  Whole game which guy pops.  That guy moves up or wins.  Dodson and Kline are the Mendosa line.  Hopefully, Bernard, Spector or Williams can clear it. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

The pre season will provide the answer.  Can the guy read, react and make a play.  They are on screen the whole time. Who stands out?  Whole game which guy pops.  That guy moves up or wins.  Dodson and Kline are the Mendosa line.  Hopefully, Bernard, Spector or Williams can clear it. 

Fair point to remember is....the guy that "pops out" on TV isn't necessarily the guy that coaching staffs may tag the winner. It's about who has command of their assignments. Who adds the most. Remember, coaches aren't fans and do not solely based their decision on box scores and who gets their name announced on the broadcast the most. 

 

However the preseason shakes out, I think the safest bet is that no matter how anyone looks... McDermott will most likely start Dodson for his experience to begin the season provided one of the young guys doesn't make it impossible to keep off the field.

[Blank Stare]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...good or bad. 

 

Boy you really read between the lines on my post and came up with a completely different interpretation than intended. Where did I say I’ve made any sort of final determination on Bernard? I haven’t, and I won’t judge him off one game where he looked a little lost. Of course players can improve. I’m saying in general that you can’t make a decision on one player based on another player drafted in the same round and at the same position. They are two different people. A lot of people have already tossed Bernard on the trash heap. He may be great, he may be terrible, (or somewhere in between) but that has nothing to do with DW. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Blank Stare

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...good or bad. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Excellent point.  I was disappointed he didn't do more with his opportunities last season, but it's premature to write him off.  But if Williams climbs over him for playing time in the defense this season, then we will know.  

 

Where's the internet fun in sharing reasonable takes like this?! What do you mean I don't KNOW the future of two young prospects who I lump together because they were drafted in the same round and have similar weights (uNdErSiZeD!!!) that I don't realize are closer to the norm now than whatever 245+ pound Pro Bowl LB I'm thinking of from years ago?! 

 

Nerds.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Fair point to remember is....the guy that "pops out" on TV isn't necessarily the guy that coaching staffs may tag the winner. It's about who has command of their assignments. Who adds the most. Remember, coaches aren't fans and do not solely based their decision on box scores and who gets their name announced on the broadcast the most. 

 

However the preseason shakes out, I think the safest bet is that no matter how anyone looks... McDermott will most likely start Dodson for his experience to begin the season provided one of the young guys doesn't make it impossible to keep off the field.

 

This is a really good point.

 

Back in 2012, the Bills drafted a LB named Tank Carder in the 5th round.  There was a fair amount of excitement about him because he was making plays in the preseason, breaking up passes and making some picks.  Chan Gailey was asked about him and said, somewhat laconically and sounding un-excited, that he "continued to stand out on film" or something like that.

 

The Bills released him at the cutdown to the 53 man roster, and a lot of fans were in disbelief - how could those stupid coaches cut a player who was all over the field making plays?  Elementary, my dear fans, it's because he wasn't where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to be doing, and there were many offensive plays that were succeeding, under the radar to the fans, because he wasn't carrying out his actual assignment.

 

 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...good or bad.

 

To be fair, Bernard was asked to start a game and play for Milano and he 1) really looked lost 2) when he got to the right place at the right time, he got trucked and dragged 5 yds downfield.  He looked slow and lacking in physicality.  So that's a bit more than "some spot duty".  Prior to that game, he'd seen a couple quarters of play.  After that, he saw a lot of ST snaps but nothing on D.

 

To be clear, I think the Bills concluded from that game that Bernard was "not ready for prime time".  Now none of the above means I personally believe the book on him is written, because players can improve a lot from their 1st to their 2nd year and if a player is still learning the defense and thinking instead of being able to read-and-react, it's gonna slow him down.

 

But there was a bit more of Bernard than "spot duty".

[BADOLBILZ]

37 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is a really good point.

 

Back in 2012, the Bills drafted a LB named Tank Carder in the 5th round.  There was a fair amount of excitement about him because he was making plays in the preseason, breaking up passes and making some picks.  Chan Gailey was asked about him and said, somewhat laconically and sounding un-excited, that he "continued to stand out on film" or something like that.

 

The Bills released him at the cutdown to the 53 man roster, and a lot of fans were in disbelief - how could those stupid coaches cut a player who was all over the field making plays?  Elementary, my dear fans, it's because he wasn't where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to be doing, and there were many offensive plays that were succeeding, under the radar to the fans, because he wasn't carrying out his actual assignment.

 

 

 

 

Yep Chan Gailey had that thing where he would send messages to players thru the media by saying sh!t like that.   They knew what he meant even if the media could only speculate.  I think that pointless stuff really helped undermine the buy-in to his regime.  

 

Most notable example of that tactic was the......."Aaron Maybin works hard......nobody can say Aaron Maybin doesn't work hard.....he works hard.......did I mention he WORKS hard?" answers he'd give to people perplexed about his uselessness.   The subtext being that he didn't PLAY hard on the field.   Working out is strenuous "work"........but playing hard in the trenches is painful and injury is inevitable if you are selling out.   Maybin wasn't in for the latter.......he was just cashing checks and play acting on the field.   

[BuffaloBillyG]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

To be fair, Bernard was asked to start a game and play for Milano and he 1) really looked lost 2) when he got to the right place at the right time, he got trucked and dragged 5 yds downfield.  He looked slow and lacking in physicality.  So that's a bit more than "some spot duty".  Prior to that game, he'd seen a couple quarters of play.  After that, he saw a lot of ST snaps but nothing on D.

 

To be clear, I think the Bills concluded from that game that Bernard was "not ready for prime time".  Now none of the above means I personally believe the book on him is written, because players can improve a lot from their 1st to their 2nd year and if a player is still learning the defense and thinking instead of being able to read-and-react, it's gonna slow him down.

 

But there was a bit more of Bernard than "spot duty".

So, a few quarters of play and 1 game (out of 18 played) aren't "spot duty"? We must have different definitions lol. 

 

To your point, I agree that the coaches were able to see that he wasn't ready for primetime last year. The said as much after drafting the kid as well. They knew he would need time. He's now had a full season, a complete off season where coach said he was in town learning the whole off-season (along with Spector) and will have a 2nd TC. Should be a better chance to see if he took steps forward IMO.

[Shaw66]

16 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

Where's the internet fun in sharing reasonable takes like this?! What do you mean I don't KNOW the future of two young prospects who I lump together because they were drafted in the same round and have similar weights (uNdErSiZeD!!!) that I don't realize are closer to the norm now than whatever 245+ pound Pro Bowl LB I'm thinking of from years ago?! 

 

Nerds.

Love this!  Thanks.

[Rico]

18 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is a really good point.

 

Back in 2012, the Bills drafted a LB named Tank Carder in the 5th round.  There was a fair amount of excitement about him because he was making plays in the preseason, breaking up passes and making some picks.  Chan Gailey was asked about him and said, somewhat laconically and sounding un-excited, that he "continued to stand out on film" or something like that.

 

The Bills released him at the cutdown to the 53 man roster, and a lot of fans were in disbelief - how could those stupid coaches cut a player who was all over the field making plays?  Elementary, my dear fans, it's because he wasn't where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to be doing, and there were many offensive plays that were succeeding, under the radar to the fans, because he wasn't carrying out his actual assignment.

 

 

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, Rico said:

 

That's truly an impressive "receipt" file.  Well done!

[without a drought]

19 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is a really good point.

 

Back in 2012, the Bills drafted a LB named Tank Carder in the 5th round.  There was a fair amount of excitement about him because he was making plays in the preseason, breaking up passes and making some picks.  Chan Gailey was asked about him and said, somewhat laconically and sounding un-excited, that he "continued to stand out on film" or something like that.

 

The Bills released him at the cutdown to the 53 man roster, and a lot of fans were in disbelief - how could those stupid coaches cut a player who was all over the field making plays?  Elementary, my dear fans, it's because he wasn't where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to be doing, and there were many offensive plays that were succeeding, under the radar to the fans, because he wasn't carrying out his actual assignment.

 

 

I thoughht people were just upset that they had a LB named Tank and they cut him.

[TBBills Fan]

47 minutes ago, Rico said:

 

I miss having Levitre and wood

[TheWeatherMan]

32 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

I miss having Levitre and wood

You forgot Wang 

[JaCrispy]

I got a good feeling about this guy 👍

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

I miss having Levitre and wood

Man….. if they’d have just grabbed Orakpo instead of Maybin that’d have been a damn good time draft; three probowlers and a starting guard from the first four picks. SMMFH. I would have lost a TV that day with the Maybin pick if we hadn’t started drinking when the brisket went on smoke. 

[boyst]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:36 PM, Beck Water said:

 

To be fair, Bernard was asked to start a game and play for Milano and he 1) really looked lost 2) when he got to the right place at the right time, he got trucked and dragged 5 yds downfield.  He looked slow and lacking in physicality.  So that's a bit more than "some spot duty".  Prior to that game, he'd seen a couple quarters of play.  After that, he saw a lot of ST snaps but nothing on D.

 

To be clear, I think the Bills concluded from that game that Bernard was "not ready for prime time".  Now none of the above means I personally believe the book on him is written, because players can improve a lot from their 1st to their 2nd year and if a player is still learning the defense and thinking instead of being able to read-and-react, it's gonna slow him down.

 

But there was a bit more of Bernard than "spot duty".

Was that the Detroit game or Cleveland game?

[RyanC883]

14 hours ago, without a drought said:

I thoughht people were just upset that they had a LB named Tank and they cut him.

 

I was!