RD 1, Pick 25: TE Dalton Kincaid, Utah

[CincyBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, balln said:

Perfect example is the dolphins playoff game. They were up 17. (Largely bc of big plays- so yes to a degree you’re right). 
 

And then they were taking deep

shot after deep

shot . Bad plays. Bad routes. Bad throws. And it totally let Mia into the game and I’m sorry that freaking game was too close for comfort. 
 

countless videos of wide open guys in short to intermediate . Allen just wouldn’t go there

Sorry but this is a one sided take on what happened in that 2nd quarter.  Surprised you didn't add the following:

 

*  Knox dropped a TD pass that would have made it 21 - 0.

*  Shakir drops a 55 yard completion late in the 2nd half this if completed likely would have let the Bills run out the clock and score a TD to go up 24 - 9 at half.

*  The Bills gave up a 57 yard punt return to put the Dolphins in scoring position.

*  A ball bounced off Beasley's hands for an INT that leads to Miami points.

 

A better description of what happened was that Miami got back into the game because of a series of fluke plays.

 

 

 

 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

People say this, but why?  Bills moved the chains better than anyother team in football last year. 

 

 While this statement is not true, it's closer to reality than most takes. The Bills averaged 22.8 first downs per game only trailing the Chiefs(23.8) and the Eagles(23.1).

 

 I don't get it, where were all these takes after the 2021 season? That was statistically the worst offense of the last 3 years and Josh's worst season during that span. I get maybe because of the 2 playoff games, but that was only 2 of the 19 games we played. Aside from the game in Foxboro his last 6 games or so were pretty bad in 2021, including his worst game of his career against Atlanta(17 QB Rating).

 

 In 2022 they averaged as many ppg  as 2021 and out the last 3 seasons, last year's offense had the most yards per game and the highest 3rd down percentage. And that's against the 2020 offense which was pretty damn good. It's also the only season in Josh's career that the offense converted over 50% of their 3rd downs.

 

Need to cut down on redzone turnovers and short fgs(13 attempts alone from the 30-39 yard range). In terms of moving the ball, we were a top 2 or 3 team last year and I think we'll be, at worst, the 2nd best offense this year with all the added talent on that side of the ball. 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 While this statement is not true, it's closer to reality than most takes. The Bills averaged 22.8 first downs per game only trailing the Chiefs(23.8) and the Eagles(23.1).

 

 I don't get it, where were all these takes after the 2021 season? That was statistically the worst offense of the last 3 years and Josh's worst season during that span. I get maybe because of the 2 playoff games, but that was only 2 of the 19 games we played. Aside from the game in Foxboro his last 6 games or so were pretty bad in 2021, including his worst game of his career against Atlanta(17 QB Rating).

 

 In 2022 they averaged as many ppg  as 2021 and out the last 3 seasons, last year's offense had the most yards per game and the highest 3rd down percentage. And that's against the 2020 offense which was pretty damn good. It's also the only season in Josh's career that the offense converted over 50% of their 3rd downs.

 

Need to cut down on redzone turnovers and short fgs(13 attempts alone from the 30-39 yard range). In terms of moving the ball, we were a top 2 or 3 team last year and I think we'll be, at worst, the 2nd best offense this year with all the added talent on that side of the ball. 

 

People hated Daboll in 2021. I said Allen’s worst game of his career was in 2021 vs Atlanta. Daboll was saved by Allen getting red hot in the playoffs.
 

How about this stat from 2022 for everyone? After week 11 they were 23rd in redzone TD scoring. By the end of the season they finished 9th. 
 

The overall offense in 2022 was better than 2021. They just didn’t get going vs Cincinnati. And it seems all the deep shots were due to Allen’s injury. There was less discomfort throwing deep.
 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[AuntieEm]

4 hours ago, Chaos said:

Again, the Bills were the best team in football at moving the chains.  Why must we move them a different way than we do now? 

 

Because as Josh said in that one interview he is getting older and he's gonna be a qb first football player second. I take this to mean he is gonna look to take the best plays based on what's happening in any given game.  Think he knows he has to choose his moments rather than always trying to gain extra yards when they aren't needed.  Playing smarter to lessen the risks.  It also makes his play style less predictable.  Lull the opponent into having to defend against all his weapons that no one is left to spy Allen  that's when he'll get his easy yards with less risk.  

Edited May 4, 2023 by AuntieEm

[John from Riverside]

If we want to enjoy Josh for years to come, some thing Hass to change on the offense

 

It can’t be Josh saves the day every play whenever people can’t get open that’s not going to work and eventually it gets shut down

 

We need to put players around Josh that any quarterback, including our back up quarterback would be able to work with and still win games then you have Josh come in and you’re that much bette

that’s how We get to the Super Bowl

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I thought this a really great read and I am pretty excited! . Dorsey really needs to get this kid on the field and see where it takes us. 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2023/5/1/23705699/opinion-dalton-kincaid-could-be-the-herald-of-a-new-offense-for-buffalo-bills-nfl-draft-2023-rumor

[Dr. Who]

7 minutes ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

I thought this a really great read and I am pretty excited! . Dorsey really needs to get this kid on the field and see where it takes us. 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2023/5/1/23705699/opinion-dalton-kincaid-could-be-the-herald-of-a-new-offense-for-buffalo-bills-nfl-draft-2023-rumor

It's a good article that clearly articulates why the pouting crowd angry we traded up for a TE are wrong given Kincaid's particular skill set. They can continue to hang their sad little hats on Dorsey being an incompetent OC, I suppose, but there's no reason an intelligent OC shouldn't be able to make this happen and I surmise Dorsey year two is going to improve upon his rookie campaign.

[MrEpsYtown]

11 hours ago, balln said:

Perfect example is the dolphins playoff game. They were up 17. (Largely bc of big plays- so yes to a degree you’re right). 
 

And then they were taking deep

shot after deep

shot . Bad plays. Bad routes. Bad throws. And it totally let Mia into the game and I’m sorry that freaking game was too close for comfort. 
 

countless videos of wide open guys in short to intermediate . Allen just wouldn’t go there

 

The Dolphins were giving them the deep shot. That was the correct read most of the time, they just didn't execute. 

 

11 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Sorry but this is a one sided take on what happened in that 2nd quarter.  Surprised you didn't add the following:

 

*  Knox dropped a TD pass that would have made it 21 - 0.

*  Shakir drops a 55 yard completion late in the 2nd half this if completed likely would have let the Bills run out the clock and score a TD to go up 24 - 9 at half.

*  The Bills gave up a 57 yard punt return to put the Dolphins in scoring position.

*  A ball bounced off Beasley's hands for an INT that leads to Miami points.

 

A better description of what happened was that Miami got back into the game because of a series of fluke plays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. One or two plays completely change that game. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

It's a good article that clearly articulates why the pouting crowd angry we traded up for a TE are wrong given Kincaid's particular skill set. They can continue to hang their sad little hats on Dorsey being an incompetent OC, I suppose, but there's no reason an intelligent OC shouldn't be able to make this happen and I surmise Dorsey year two is going to improve upon his rookie campaign.

 

 

If Kincaid can stay healthy he will be a excellent player and Dorsey will make good use of him, IMO.    He fell because a lot of teams around the NFL felt that his injury situation and age were too concerning.   I don't know the extent of his injuries and how it could impact him but as I stated elsewhere, the age doesn't bother me because other great TE's have started their pro career at his age and gone on to have HOF careers(Gates and Kelce, for example).

 

I like the pick and can live with the trade-up........it wasn't a premium position technically.......but combined with Josh Allen he has the potential to have the impact on the field that a premium position player can have in changing the outcome of games with his individual matchup winning potential.   

[hondo in seattle]

13 hours ago, Chaos said:

Again, the Bills were the best team in football at moving the chains.  Why must we move them a different way than we do now? 

 

Because we lost 4 games last year including a playoff game that ended our Lombardi hopes.   And there were other games that were arguably close than they 'should' have been.  

 

It's about continuous improvement in all facets of the game.  Beane said something to the effect of we weren't good at attacking the middle of the field last year and Kincaid makes us better.  That's something to be excited about.  

[The Firebaugh Kid]

15 hours ago, balln said:

Perfect example is the dolphins playoff game. They were up 17. (Largely bc of big plays- so yes to a degree you’re right). 
 

And then they were taking deep

shot after deep

shot . Bad plays. Bad routes. Bad throws. And it totally let Mia into the game and I’m sorry that freaking game was too close for comfort. 
 

countless videos of wide open guys in short to intermediate . Allen just wouldn’t go there

Watching that game, I couldn't help but think they were just screwing around out there, trying to put on a show. 

 

[PrimeTime101]

31 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Watching that game, I couldn't help but think they were just screwing around out there, trying to put on a show. 

 

This is an interesting take. I think when you blow out a team the way they did the year before, it has to go through their thought process that the offense can repeat.

 

But to be honest, I do not think it is reality. The deep stuff was open and not the short stuff and we just did not execute. 

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

It's a good article that clearly articulates why the pouting crowd angry we traded up for a TE are wrong given Kincaid's particular skill set. They can continue to hang their sad little hats on Dorsey being an incompetent OC, I suppose, but there's no reason an intelligent OC shouldn't be able to make this happen and I surmise Dorsey year two is going to improve upon his rookie campaign.

Sad little hats ?
Doubt he is incompetent so much as he has a ton of room for growth ?

I like my little hat btw. and will hang it where i please LOL

 

No way Ken doesn't improve. He has a surrounding cast that has so much Football knowledge to draw upon !
I just did not like him last year. 

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

This is an interesting take. I think when you blow out a team the way they did the year before, it has to go through their thought process that the offense can repeat.

 

But to be honest, I do not think it is reality. The deep stuff was open and not the short stuff and we just did not execute. 

Miami was asking for it, and Bills did not execute. Maybe they took them lightly. Not sure.
But in response to some. 
We had Cooks and Nyheim and even Devin. We had two TEs who can catch. We didnt use them through out the season with a playbook that opened to another chapter.

 Hence some folks hesitation that adding a TE who can make plays was the best pick. Bills needed deep speed !
 

Kincaid is a great pick. So let use ALL of the weapons and all of the field.
 

As fans we saw players open nearly each down for easy yards.

Josh or Dorsey ?? no matter

Fix that and the sky is the limit.

 Go Bills

[Nihilarian]

On 5/3/2023 at 2:10 PM, HomeTeam said:

Not sure if this was posted but Daniel Jeremiah had some high praises for Kincaid.

 

 

Indeed...He had him rated as the #9 out of his top 150 players.

[akm0404]

Can’t help but chuckle to myself about how things come full circle after years (decades) of the misery of checkdown qbs, we finally have a hero slangin’ it and some pine for him to embrace his inner Trent Edwards. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by akm0404

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Sad little hats ?
Doubt he is incompetent so much as he has a ton of room for growth ?

I like my little hat btw. and will hang it where i please LOL

 

No way Ken doesn't improve. He has a surrounding cast that has so much Football knowledge to draw upon !
I just did not like him last year. 

I'm not certain that you are properly discerning my meaning. If you want to spend time searching this site, just in the last day or so I wrote a rather lengthy exposition of problems with Ken Dorsey's first year as OC. Essentially, I agree that he is doubtfully incompetent, but has a ton of room to grow. I think he'll get there, but I don't have certitude. The sad hats are for those who disliked paying up to be able to draft Kincaid. Since you seem to believe Kincaid was a great pick, I don't think you own one. Those who do are welcome to keep that hat. I don't think it's a good look, but tastes differ.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Dr. Who

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Miami was asking for it, and Bills did not execute. Maybe they took them lightly. Not sure.
But in response to some. 
We had Cooks and Nyheim and even Devin. We had two TEs who can catch. We didnt use them through out the season with a playbook that opened to another chapter.

 Hence some folks hesitation that adding a TE who can make plays was the best pick. Bills needed deep speed !
 

Kincaid is a great pick. So let use ALL of the weapons and all of the field.
 

As fans we saw players open nearly each down for easy yards.

Josh or Dorsey ?? no matter

Fix that and the sky is the limit.

 Go Bills

I think there are parts missing. lets list.

"we had two TEs who ca catch" Knox and who? Cause Knox was the only one that could catch.

I think you are missing the part that how often Knox was dropping balls. 

I think you are missing the part where Knox was not getting good separation a good chunk of the time

I think you are missing the part where Our OC came out of a system in Carolina and watched how well top catching TEs do.

I think you are missing the part of how bad our line was last year as well.

And

I think its silly to misunderstand how good this player is in Kincaid... Many feel Kincaid would be the top te in the last 8 drafts.

 

Its crazy to think Dorsey will not play a Kincaid properly.. Just because of what happened last year, you can not assume Dorsey will ignore Kincaid.

 

2 TE's that can catch? Like Knox/Kincaid?

 

And the bolded is crazier talk yet... Nearly Each Down Fans Saw Players Open? come on man... Stop with that crazy narrative lol

[Ralonzo]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If Kincaid can stay healthy he will be a excellent player and Dorsey will make good use of him, IMO.    He fell because a lot of teams around the NFL felt that his injury situation and age were too concerning.   I don't know the extent of his injuries and how it could impact him but as I stated elsewhere, the age doesn't bother me because other great TE's have started their pro career at his age and gone on to have HOF careers(Gates and Kelce, for example).

 

I like the pick and can live with the trade-up........it wasn't a premium position technically.......but combined with Josh Allen he has the potential to have the impact on the field that a premium position player can have in changing the outcome of games with his individual matchup winning potential.   

 

 

[SydneyBillsFan]

 

Skippy just won't let it go 😁

[Ralonzo]

Bayless has aged like 10 years in the last week.

 

Edit:

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Ralonzo

[JaCrispy]

7 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Skippy just won't let it go 😁

Nope! Kincaid is gonna change Allen’s life, Skippy! 🤣🤣🤣

[Fan in Chicago]

15 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Skippy just won't let it go 😁

"buffalo just bamboozled Jerry Jones and stole Dalton Kincaid right from under his upturned nose"

Priceless . Thank you Brandon Beane for working the phones and his networking with his friend Schoen

[JerseyBills]

18 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I think there are parts missing. lets list.

"we had two TEs who ca catch" Knox and who? Cause Knox was the only one that could catch.

I think you are missing the part that how often Knox was dropping balls. 

I think you are missing the part where Knox was not getting good separation a good chunk of the time

I think you are missing the part where Our OC came out of a system in Carolina and watched how well top catching TEs do.

I think you are missing the part of how bad our line was last year as well.

And

I think its silly to misunderstand how good this player is in Kincaid... Many feel Kincaid would be the top te in the last 8 drafts.

 

Its crazy to think Dorsey will not play a Kincaid properly.. Just because of what happened last year, you can not assume Dorsey will ignore Kincaid.

 

2 TE's that can catch? Like Knox/Kincaid?

 

And the bolded is crazier talk yet... Nearly Each Down Fans Saw Players Open? come on man... Stop with that crazy narrative lol

Kincaid was unanimously considered the best receiver in this draft, including WRs and if you watch the tape it clearly shows his amazing receiving ability 

 

He'll do wonders for Knox and the offenses ability to be more versatile from a personnel standpoint, which is what I believe Dorsey wanted last year because of the OJ Howard acquisition 

[Shaw66]

24 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

which is what I believe Dorsey wanted last year because of the OJ Howard acquisition 

This is a good point.   They didn't have much to spend on a TE, and I was pretty sure Howard was a bust, but the idea was that if they could resurrect Howard and make something like the receiving tight end people thought he would become, then the Bills would have the two TE set that they wanted.   

 

This time they went after a certifiable talent, higher ceiling than Howard.    

[RoyBatty is alive]

45 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Kincaid was unanimously considered the best receiver in this draft, including WRs and if you watch the tape it clearly shows his amazing receiving ability 

 

He'll do wonders for Knox and the offenses ability to be more versatile from a personnel standpoint, which is what I believe Dorsey wanted last year because of the OJ Howard acquisition 

Where did you get the idea he was the best receiver in the draft including WRs?  Any sources since it was "unanimous"? Thankfully you didnt take a gratuitous jab at Dorsey who is now a OBD punching bag.  I think you were right about OJ Howard who scored more TDs for the Texans than the bills last year.

[Motorin']

17 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Where did you get the idea he was the best receiver in the draft including WRs?  Any sources since it was "unanimous"? Thankfully you didnt take a gratuitous jab at Dorsey who is now a OBD punching bag.  I think you were right about OJ Howard who scored more TDs for the Texans than the bills last year.

 

I think he means that most draft analysts agree that Kincaid has the best hands in the draft. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

I think he means that most draft analysts agree that Kincaid has the best hands in the draft. 

Even still that is an awfully massive statement, a lot of great receivers with great hands in this draft although  he might have the largest hands FWIW.

[Motorin']

11 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Even still that is an awfully massive statement, a lot of great receivers with great hands in this draft although  he might have the largest hands FWIW.

 

His catch percentage was very good. And he had the lowest drop percentage. So it's fair to say a number of analysts have pointed to those reasons for claiming he has the best hands. 

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Even still that is an awfully massive statement, a lot of great receivers with great hands in this draft although  he might have the largest hands FWIW.

Of all the projected rd 1-3 WRs, Josh Downs had the lowest drop rate @ 2.0% in 2023.  I don’t know what his or any other WRs % is for their career….. but Kincaids was 1.6%.  In his career.  I’d venture to say that it’s the lowest in the draft. 
 

From my couch, I thought it was fairly easy to see he was the best pass catcher in the draft. 

[Augie]

36 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Of all the projected rd 1-3 WRs, Josh Downs had the lowest drop rate @ 2.0% in 2023.  I don’t know what his or any other WRs % is for their career….. but Kincaids was 1.6%.  In his career.  I’d venture to say that it’s the lowest in the draft. 
 

From my couch, I thought it was fairly easy to see he was the best pass catcher in the draft. 

 

I didn’t watch enough to have an opinion on his hands. People rarely have drops in their highlight reel, so I really like your stats. That’s VERY encouraging. What DID stand out to me on film was how fluid he is and how well he tracks the ball. It’s only one play, but that TD catch in the end zone where he’s looking over the left shoulder, then adjusts to the catch over his right shoulder is only one play, but it was a very impressive one to me. 

 

I can’t wait to see this guy in a Bills uniform! I hope Dorsey and the OLine make strides, because we could be even more dangerous going forward. 

 

.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Augie

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I didn’t watch enough to have an opinion on his hands. People rarely have drops in their highlight reel, so I really like your stats. That’s VERY encouraging. What DID stand out to me on film was how fluid he is and how well he tracks the ball. It’s only one play, but that TD catch in the end zone where he’s looking over the left shoulder, then adjusts to the catch over his right shoulder in only one play, but it was a very impressive one to me. 

 

I can’t wait to see this guy in a Bills uniform! I hope Dorsey and the OLine make strides, because we could be even more dangerous going forward. 

I agree. Other than his hands and ball attacking/tracking ability what stood out most were his loose hips and his ability to catch the ball and start forward momentum in the same motion maximizing yards.

 

Dorsey only has one excuse now.  Spencer Brown 😬 but he certainly has his work cut out for him facing Fangio, Saleh and Belichick 6+ times a year.  Our playmakers are much more versatile this season, I can’t wait to see what he puts together 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree. Other than his hands and ball attacking/tracking ability what stood out most were his loose hips and his ability to catch the ball and start forward momentum in the same motion maximizing yards.

 

Dorsey only has one excuse now.  Spencer Brown 😬 but he certainly has his work cut out for him facing Fangio, Saleh and Belichick 6+ times a year.  Our playmakers are much more versatile this season, I can’t wait to see what he puts together 

 

We’ll never know what might have happened if the little run on WR’s didn’t take place, but I like having a guy who is a mismatch and can put pressure on a defense. He’s not just another good WR, he’s a different part like a new chess piece. We have a bishop/rook hybrid! 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

We’ll never know what might have happened if the little run on WR’s didn’t take place, but I like having a guy who is a mismatch and can put pressure on a defense. He’s not just another good WR, he’s a different part like a new chess piece. We have a bishop/rook hybrid! 

Watching those 4 WRs go in a row was painful.  While Kincaid was the guy I wanted most, I wasn’t confident that Beane would take another TE.  The franchise has gone from investing the minimum in the position for 30+ years.  Now we pay one 14M aav and draft another in rd 1 a year later.  
 

He’s an incredible chess piece.  I feel that Injury is the only thing that can hold him back.  

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

I didn’t watch enough to have an opinion on his hands. People rarely have drops in their highlight reel, so I really like your stats. That’s VERY encouraging. What DID stand out to me on film was how fluid he is and how well he tracks the ball. It’s only one play, but that TD catch in the end zone where he’s looking over the left shoulder, then adjusts to the catch over his right shoulder is only one play, but it was a very impressive one to me. 

 

I can’t wait to see this guy in a Bills uniform! I hope Dorsey and the OLine make strides, because we could be even more dangerous going forward. 

 

.

Cover1 discussed how fluid he is along with other parts of his game.  It's a good watch including the catch your talking about.

 

 

 

[Augie]

34 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Cover1 discussed how fluid he is along with other parts of his game.  It's a good watch including the catch your talking about.

 

 

 

 

That was great, but I didn’t see the TD catch I was talking about. Maybe I blinked, but they stay on one play for a while so I don’t think I missed it. I’ll look for it later. It shows his flexibility and ball tracking while making it all look SO EASY and natural. He’s not a big stiff, he’s athletic as hell. 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

That was great, but I didn’t see the TD catch I was talking about. Maybe I blinked, but they stay on one play for a while so I don’t think I missed it. I’ll look for it later. It shows his flexibility and ball tracking while making it all look SO EASY and natural. He’s not a big stiff, he’s athletic as hell. 

That catch stood out to me as well.  You don’t see that happen very often

[The Wiz]

23 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

That was great, but I didn’t see the TD catch I was talking about. Maybe I blinked, but they stay on one play for a while so I don’t think I missed it. I’ll look for it later. It shows his flexibility and ball tracking while making it all look SO EASY and natural. He’s not a big stiff, he’s athletic as hell. 

Truth be told, you're right. It wasn't in there because I know the exact play you are talking about.  It was another video I watched that was... Let's just say not that great of a narrator and I watched it as I was going to bed last night.

 

I believe this is the one.

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by The Wiz

[John from Riverside]

41 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Truth be told, you're right. It wasn't in there because I know the exact play you are talking about.  It was another video I watched that was... Let's just say not that great of a narrator and I watched it as I was going to bed last night.

 

I believe this is the one.

 

 

 

This is just my own opinion

If Dalton would have tested, there’s no way in hell he would’ve been there for us at 25

I think those test results especially speed. Would’ve caused him to get picked up by somebody like the Packers or the chargers

 

Good for us

[The Wiz]

35 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

This is just my own opinion

If Dalton would have tested, there’s no way in hell he would’ve been there for us at 25

I think those test results especially speed. Would’ve caused him to get picked up by somebody like the Packers or the chargers

 

Good for us

Completely agree.  I know he said he would have run a 4.5 if he did the combine and I honestly don't doubt it.  Even on that "math" play he still managed roughly a 5.18 with contact on the route and stopping/adjustment at the end.  That's more of a "length of play" than it was "actual game speed".

 

He should have gone in the top 20 without question.

Edited May 6, 2023 by The Wiz