Nyhiem Hines Restructures - Takes a pay cut to stay in Buffalo.

[Beck Water]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think there is a good chance Hines is still the 3rd RB and kick/punt returner. I would like to see the Bills release McKenzie and use Hines in the old McKenzie role prior to last season.

 

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall Hines trying a few sweeps and it didn't work out.  I think McKenzie has a kind of fast-burst quickness that lends itself, while Hines has an afterburner where once he's going, he can turn it on.  Just my impression.  Same thing with Shakir - he's fast, but he's not as quick if that makes sense?

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

McKenzie ran a pretty full route tree.  I'm not saying what the Bills do - it depends on who they bring in, surely - but I don't think you look at Hines and McKenzie as equivalent at all.

 

One thing is, McKenzie is owed a roster bonus of $250,000 this Fri, so if they cut him, they likely cut him this week.  My guess is that he comes into camp and competes.

 

Unless he takes a good pay cut he is gone. I hope he is gone anyway. Time to move on. 

[BuffaloRebound]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

McKenzie ran a pretty full route tree.  I'm not saying what the Bills do - it depends on who they bring in, surely - but I don't think you look at Hines and McKenzie as equivalent at all.

 

One thing is, McKenzie is owed a roster bonus of $250,000 this Fri, so if they cut him, they likely cut him this week.  My guess is that he comes into camp and competes.

For $2m I think you bring back McKenzie even if he never sees the field.  He’s good insurance in case you ever need him like the 2021 game at New England.  I actually think he might have some trade value at $2m per year also.  

[HaldimandBills]

With this restructure we have our kick and punt returner. We also have a weapon on offense that we will hopefully utilize this season. 

 

I think with this restructure it is time to say goodbye to Isiah Mckenzie. I failed in the slot and Hines took his other role.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall Hines trying a few sweeps and it didn't work out.  I think McKenzie has a kind of fast-burst quickness that lends itself, while Hines has an afterburner where once he's going, he can turn it on.  Just my impression.  Same thing with Shakir - he's fast, but he's not as quick if that makes sense?

The Hines package last year consisted of like 2 plays. I wouldn’t even try to evaluate whatever the Hines package was.

 

Hines is definitely similar speed and quickness to McKenzie. Probably a bit faster.

[balln]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The Hines package last year consisted of like 2 plays. I wouldn’t even try to evaluate whatever the Hines package was.

 

Hines is definitely similar speed and quickness to McKenzie. Probably a bit faster.

4.38 Hines vs 4.42 McKenzie 

[somnus00]

36 minutes ago, QCity said:

Maybe we'll actually design RB screens this year.

The thing is, both Hines and Cook can both run routes like WRs. Seems to me there is so much room to get creative with two guys like this in the backfield. Not just with screens.

[Freddie's Dead]

43 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

didn't see this any where but Settle helped out with the cap as well.

 

Buffalo Bills, defensive tackle Tim Settle agree to renegotiated contract

 

 

 

 

So Settle settled.

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Did he? I felt McKenzie was a limited route runner. A lot of crossers.

 

He certainly started on the Bills as a poor route runner

Yeah, he ran a lot of deep crossers last year, mostly as clearing routes - that was what he was asked to do on a lot of plays.

 

I hear that Gabe Davis is a poor route runner who only has 3 routes, also, I don't know.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Beck Water

[John from Riverside]

So he basically becomes the new Isaiah McKenzie

[balln]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

He certainly started on the Bills as a poor route runner

Yes, he ran a lot of deep crossers last year (because that's what the Bills were asking him to do) but

 

 

Anyway, I hear people say Gabe Davis is a "limited route runner" too,

These are man beater routes……

depends game to game / what D runs against a bills

 

fake news

Edited March 13, 2023 by balln

[Mango]

1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

Glad he’s back, he was criminally underused.

 

the most head scratching aspect of the entire year regime was the major emphasis on finding multiple pass catching backs, only to never use them.

 FTFY. 
 

McBeane have keyed in on this for some time. It isn't Dorsey specific. Barkley only had about 60 more receiving yards than Singletary. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Mango

[Simon Says]

55 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

Was occasionally electric at KR.  Does this make lil drrty expendable?

It didn't make McKenzie expendable LAST year. Bills have to fill a roster and have two dozen free agents to deal with. Why create MORE roster holes?

[Beck Water]

 

12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The Hines package last year consisted of like 2 plays. I wouldn’t even try to evaluate whatever the Hines package was.

 

Hines is definitely similar speed and quickness to McKenzie. Probably a bit faster.

 

He was on the field for 66 plays.  I could be wrong, but don't think he was running the same 2 plays on all 66 snaps.

He's definitely faster than McKenzie once he gets going.

[RyanC883]

do we have a backup OC ready for in-season.  If Dorsey starts the year like he ended it by wasting our ability to attack Ds in multiple ways, we need an OC who is not learning on the job during a SB window.  Perhaps Dorsey as Assist OC in that situation.  

19 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

For $2m I think you bring back McKenzie even if he never sees the field.  He’s good insurance in case you ever need him like the 2021 game at New England.  I actually think he might have some trade value at $2m per year also.  

 

I agree, trade but not cut.  I think it depends on the draft.  If you get the WR from BC or UNC, you don't need McKenzie with Shakir and the rookie.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

He was on the field for 66 plays.  I could be wrong, but don't think he was running the same 2 plays on all 66 snaps.

He's definitely faster than McKenzie once he gets going.

I honestly felt like they ran the same thing every time Hines came on. Probably not but that’s what it felt like.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

He was on the field for 66 plays.  I could be wrong, but don't think he was running the same 2 plays on all 66 snaps.

He's definitely faster than McKenzie once he gets going.

 

It really was extremely limited. I'd even argue that saying 2 plays is stretching it.

 

Seemed like the same thing every time. Or at least every time he got the ball. So it became super predictable for us, and the defense. That same busted sweep every time.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

22 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Unless he takes a good pay cut he is gone. I hope he is gone anyway. Time to move on. 

Gotta think/guess he's one of the reason's Hall has moved on.

[BillsFan2313]

5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

do we have a backup OC ready for in-season.  If Dorsey starts the year like he ended it by wasting our ability to attack Ds in multiple ways, we need an OC who is not learning on the job during a SB window.  Perhaps Dorsey as Assist OC in that situation.  

 

I agree, trade but not cut.  I think it depends on the draft.  If you get the WR from BC or UNC, you don't need McKenzie with Shakir and the rookie.  

 

It would be Joe Brady

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Doesn't sound like much of a pay cut and incentives can take him OVER his $4.9M?

 

WTF Beane? 

 

Hines is clearly going to be RB3.........that shouldn't cost anything in excess of $2M total.........and not $2M with future dead money.

 

Hines should have been cut and allowed to test the market..........the kind of pay cut he should have required are the kind that don't work out unless the player is allowed to test his true worth on the market.    

 

Pay cuts in general are bad business.   Every time Beane asks for one the player effort/buy-in shifts into double low.   See Vernon Butler and opt-out year Star Lotulelei as the prior examples.

 

The player needs to be able to see his value to appreciate their position..........case in point Beasley refusing a pay cut down from $7M and then being grateful to be accepted back onto the practice squad 6 months later.    It's human nature for workers to check out when you cut their pay.

 

Sign Jamaal Williams next for $4M-$5M and they can have a $10M backfield without even having a star RB in it. 😂

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

do we have a backup OC ready for in-season.  If Dorsey starts the year like he ended it by wasting our ability to attack Ds in multiple ways, we need an OC who is not learning on the job during a SB window.  Perhaps Dorsey as Assist OC in that situation.  

Our offense was almost identical to 2021 with Daboll. They got hot in the playoffs. Only difference. Worst game of Allen’s career imo was home vs Atlanta late 2021 season.

 

Point is people are being way to harsh on Dorsey. Expectations were sky high. He did improve redzone as the year went on. I think he’ll be fine.

[Draconator]

In other Bills news...

 

 

[Negan]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

In other Bills news...

 

 

Sean McDermott Jr

[MWK]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

In other Bills news...

 

 

I'm sure we are overpaying him 

[No_Matter_What]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Doesn't sound like much of a pay cut and incentives can take him OVER his $4.9M?

 

WTF Beane? 

 

Hines is clearly going to be RB3.........that shouldn't cost anything in excess of $2M total.........and not $2M with future dead money.

 

Hines should have been cut and allowed to test the market..........the kind of pay cut he should have required are the kind that don't work out unless the player is allowed to test his true worth on the market.    

 

Pay cuts in general are bad business.   Every time Beane asks for one the player effort/buy-in shifts into double low.   See Vernon Butler and opt-out year Star Lotulelei as the prior examples.

 

The player needs to be able to see his value to appreciate their position..........case in point Beasley refusing a pay cut down from $7M and then being grateful to be accepted back onto the practice squad 6 months later.    It's human nature for workers to check out when you cut their pay.

 

Sign Jamaal Williams next for $4M-$5M and they can have a $10M backfield without even having a star RB in it. 😂

 

Agreed. Let's wait and see final numbers but this is confusing to me. Hines was basically a FA with no dead money on his contract. Beane had all the leverage. Either keep him for max. $2M (or maybe $2.5) or let him go. Restructuring his deal to create void years doesn't make any sense to me.

3 minutes ago, Draconator said:

In other Bills news...

 

 

I really hope this is for vet min only.

[BigdaddyinOrlando]

I may have mis heard earlier but I thought someone said on wgr that the bonus money he earns will count against next year’s cap. I could be wrong but if true it definitely helps the bottom line today

[sunshynman]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

Maybe we'll actually design RB screens this year.

Stop with the crazy talk!

[Dablitzkrieg]

21 minutes ago, MWK said:

I'm sure we are overpaying him 

How many beers in are you already?

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, CapeBreton said:

I'd love to see these incentives. Given his lack of opportunities, I'm surprised he wants to be back in Buffalo.

Really? He makes millions of dollars to do very little, and his body will still work when he is fifty five years old, what’s not to like, it’s a cake gig, 

[ngbills]

Hate the Hines signing. Hope he proves me wrong. Think he is a luxury on this team. We could have replaced him with a rookie deal and used these resources where needed more. 

[JerseyBills]

Awesome.  What a returner.

 

I would love to see way more 2 back sets with him n Cook

[TheBeaneBandit]

Totally out from right field.....is Cook a potential trade chip? Kinda seems like we "settled" ( no Tim intended lol) with his selection. Did he show enough for value in a trade or do the Bills value him as a part of the future? We shall see...

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Would argue our best special teams returner since a young Eric Moulds in addition to being a pretty darn good third down back 

Would argue that Terrance McGee is our best returner ever. Statistically, I have no idea if that’s true…..but I just really loved watching his return kicks. He was electric 

[Beck Water]

56 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It really was extremely limited. I'd even argue that saying 2 plays is stretching it.

 

Seemed like the same thing every time. Or at least every time he got the ball. So it became super predictable for us, and the defense. That same busted sweep every time.

 

I think this is a case where perception is not reality.

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Hate the Hines signing. Hope he proves me wrong. Think he is a luxury on this team. We could have replaced him with a rookie deal and used these resources where needed more. 

You hate the signing….but do you know the price tag?  He’s a top flight return man (a position we’ve had trouble with the last handful of years), has jets on his feet and can catch.  I think he’s the perfect RB3/Return man.  
 

if the cap hit is over 4M, I agree.   I don’t like it.  If it’s 2-3M,  I can dig it. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think this is a case where perception is not reality.

 

Well no duh. 😜  I dont think anyone is actually arguing that it was TECHNICALLY 2 plays. But there's also a case that stats dont tell the whole story, or tell a bigger story than there actually was. Was he in on other plays? Sure. Was their any significance to them? Didnt seem so.

[NewEra]

53 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don’t understand their RB stance. Completely ***** ass backwards…. Same goes for their over emphasis of special teams and the Hines contract makes perfect sense.

I don’t think Hines is seen, first and foremost as a RB.  He’s a return man 1st, RB3 2nd.  Jmo.  
 

yes, I agree…..their overemphasis on ST is sickening.  That said, I love him as a return man/RB3.  Eager to see how much of a pay cut is and if the incentives are even possible to attain

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

McGee was pretty good imho

Yeh would be the only other one I can think of but man two KRs in one game puts him at 1 in my book 

[jlgarsh]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Go lower. Like onto the field.

 

Josh was dumping off to Singletary and Cook the first 4-5 games, as designed, and they were starting to light it up. Our offense was clicking. Then he just stopped. Folks can blame it on the elbow injury, and that may be the case. But we did start the season throwing to the RBs, and they were still there and wide open underneath the rest of the season. We just stopped throwing it to them and instead bombed it out for low percentage throws.

 

I blame the Miami game. They ran a ball control offense and had the ball for 40+ minutes, but flukily lost. They stopped after getting fatigued during that game, but no other game had 130° temperatures on the field. Changing what was working backfired on them. 

[34-78-83]

for the and knee-jerk detractors or those in panic - this thread from one of our local cap experts helps describe the situation with Hines -