Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[stuvian]

7 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

contracts signed by Kirk Cousins:

2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal
2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed
2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed
2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed
2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed
2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed

career: $231M thru 2023...

...of which $229M was fully guaranteed

career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter

and 1 playoff win in 8 years

 

 

contracts signed by Lamar Jackson:

2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised)
2023: tbd

comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games)

Lamar: 45-16 (.738)
Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459)

Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT
Kirk:  105 pass TD to 53 INT

Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success
Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success

Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA
Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA

Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD
Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD

 

MVP’s:  Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 

 

 

There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. 

there's no question that Lamar deserves a good deal. The question is whether he is automatically entitled to one that equals or exceeds Watson's. The guaranteed money genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back in. Lamar has already turned down 3 years at 43 per year guaranteed so he and the Ravens are in the same ballpark. There's enough money in the NFL to pay Lamar what he is asking. The Ravens are a six win team with out him. His negotiating strategy is unorthodox in that he has lost a couple of high earning years that could have been negotiated before his rookie deal ran out. I think he'll get a four deal at Watson's salary guaranteed with a fifth year that's voidable by either side.

[CincyBillsFan]

30 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

contracts signed by Kirk Cousins:

2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal
2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed
2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed
2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed
2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed
2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed

career: $231M thru 2023...

...of which $229M was fully guaranteed

career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter

and 1 playoff win in 8 years

 

 

contracts signed by Lamar Jackson:

2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised)
2023: tbd

comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games)

Lamar: 45-16 (.738)
Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459)

Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT
Kirk:  105 pass TD to 53 INT

Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success
Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success

Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA
Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA

Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD
Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD

 

MVP’s:  Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 

 

 

There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. 

Playoff wins:  Lamar 1 and Cousins 1.

 

Games missed due to injury:  Lamar 12 in 5 seasons & Cousins 0 in 11 seasons.

 

 

[Augie]

38 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

contracts signed by Kirk Cousins:

2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal
2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed
2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed
2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed
2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed
2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed

career: $231M thru 2023...

...of which $229M was fully guaranteed

career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter

and 1 playoff win in 8 years

 

 

contracts signed by Lamar Jackson:

2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised)
2023: tbd

comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games)

Lamar: 45-16 (.738)
Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459)

Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT
Kirk:  105 pass TD to 53 INT

Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success
Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success

Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA
Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA

Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD
Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD

 

MVP’s:  Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 

 

 

There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. 

 

I’m sorry, it’s not personal, but that is a horrible take. (See the bold.) 

 

Are you calling people racists because they think Lamar wants a contract that would be a bad move for any team? Top dollar (originally said to be 100% guaranteed, but now he’s “reportedly” backed off) after spending TWO first round picks. My understanding is he’s been offered Cousins types of deals, but he wants longer term AND fully guaranteed. He wants the STUPID deal the Browns gave Watson. One stupid deal does NOT make the market.

 

Look at the Cousins deals - he was smart and willing to accept short term deals.  He’s made a fortune on 1-2 year deals over and over. Lamar could do the same. Lamar would be fully guaranteed on the $32mil +/- franchise deal. Nobody resents that, to my knowledge. I think he was offered 3 years for $133 mil guaranteed, but he wanted more and/or longer. His style does not lend itself to long term fully guaranteed deals. He needs to stay healthy and earn his money. 

 

I don’t see this as racist. The man needs professional representation. With a qualified agent none of this would be happening. 

 

 

.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Augie

[stuvian]

Lamar is superior to Cousins in that when it's 4th down, he knows you either have to run or pass to the 4th down marker

[4merper4mer]

20 hours ago, bobobonators said:

contracts signed by Kirk Cousins:

2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal
2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed
2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed
2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed
2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed
2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed

career: $231M thru 2023...

...of which $229M was fully guaranteed

career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter

and 1 playoff win in 8 years

 

 

contracts signed by Lamar Jackson:

2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised)
2023: tbd

comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games)

Lamar: 45-16 (.738)
Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459)

Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT
Kirk:  105 pass TD to 53 INT

Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success
Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success

Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA
Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA

Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD
Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD

 

MVP’s:  Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 

 

 

There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. 

Now do comparisons with:

 

Mahomes

Allen

Stafford

Dak

Geno

Carr

Jimmy G

 

The number one fact is that no one REALLY knows what has been discussed between Jackson and Baltimore.  With that said, so much of the speculation says the same thing about guarantees that it is likely close to true.  I don’t think most people would be either happy or upset if Baltimore gave Jackson everything he wants.  They may have opinions on its wisdom, but saying the opinions are based on skin color is not backed up by evidence.  
 

The only player to receive a fully guaranteed, top dollar, long term contract in league history is a black guy.  Cousins’ longest contract was three years and not true top end money….close, but not what Jackson presumably wants.  Clearly the owners do not want baseball type contracts to become the norm.  You can argue whether or not there is collusion, but tying it to race is unsupported.  You tried with Cousins, but a valid argument requires a lot more than that.  If Allen, Carr, and Stafford had received full guarantees, but Mahomes, Geno and Dak hadn’t, you’d have an argument.  
 

Personally, I don’t care what Jackson gets from whom, but maybe have a small preference for him ending up in the NFC.

[NewEra]

21 hours ago, bobobonators said:

contracts signed by Kirk Cousins:

2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal
2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed
2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed
2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed
2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed
2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed

career: $231M thru 2023...

...of which $229M was fully guaranteed

career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter

and 1 playoff win in 8 years

 

 

contracts signed by Lamar Jackson:

2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised)
2023: tbd

comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games)

Lamar: 45-16 (.738)
Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459)

Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT
Kirk:  105 pass TD to 53 INT

Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success
Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success

Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA
Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA

Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD
Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD

 

MVP’s:  Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 

 

 

There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. 

He isn’t getting paid because he’s a greedy idiot.  He could’ve signed a fair very contract last year with 200M guaranteed.  Then he failed to finish his 2nd consecutive season due to injury.  Now people talk about race.  Sad

[Green Lightning]

21 hours ago, stuvian said:

Lamar is superior to Cousins in that when it's 4th down, he knows you either have to run or pass to the 4th down marker

So neither one knows when it's 4th down to run or pass to the 1st down marker?

[C.Biscuit97]

Well, I guess there’s one receiver who wanted to play with Lamar!!! But no one in this board wanted him. 😂😂😂

 

for the record, I was on the anti OBJ bandwagon from the start. 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

He isn’t getting paid because he’s a greedy idiot.  He could’ve signed a fair very contract last year with 200M guaranteed.  Then he failed to finish his 2nd consecutive season due to injury.  Now people talk about race.  Sad

Yup, the players whose career can end on one play without guaranteed contracts are the idiots. Not the billionaires owners.

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well, I guess there’s one receiver who wanted to play with Lamar!!! But no one in this board wanted him. 😂😂😂

 

for the record, I was on the anti OBJ bandwagon from the start. 

Yup, the players whose career can end on one play without guaranteed contracts are the idiots. Not the billionaires owners.

No, not all are idiots.  Lamar is though.  He’s the greedy idiot that refused to pay an agent and then turned down 200M guaranteed.  
 

I like Lamar.  I root for many non Bills, but I root for Lamar to do well.  That doesn’t change the fact that he screwed up.  

[QLBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Nothing to do with his race. You added race because your argument is weak.  You are the racist.

 

You neglected to include number of games he missed.  Availability is most import asset.

Embarrassing to go race card with Lamar. Bill Polian got destroyed for saying pre draft he didn’t think Lamar was going to be a good NFL qb for his passing ability and skill set. Not because he was black. He has been proven wrong to some degree. 
Numerous posters have explained the why and the logical reasons that Lamar isn’t getting what he wants. He owns about 90% of his current situation. He should take accountability for that. One question GM’s and owners have is what kind of leader gets in the situation? You combine that with all that has been posted about health, playoff results, and passing ability and here you are. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by QLBillsFan

[BillsShredder83]

On 4/8/2023 at 6:50 PM, bobobonators said:

contracts signed by Kirk Cousins:

2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal
2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed
2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed
2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed
2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed
2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed

career: $231M thru 2023...

...of which $229M was fully guaranteed

career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter

and 1 playoff win in 8 years

 

 

contracts signed by Lamar Jackson:

2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised)
2023: tbd

comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games)

Lamar: 45-16 (.738)
Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459)

Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT
Kirk:  105 pass TD to 53 INT

Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success
Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success

Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA
Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA

Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD
Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD

 

MVP’s:  Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 

 

 

There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. 

lamar has and would turn down any contract that looks like kirks.  the black man is too in his own way to get paid. lamar turned down the 3 years fully guaranteed deal offered, hes looking for double the years, hell never get it

[DJB]

On 4/4/2023 at 3:08 PM, Xerx said:

Lamar the passer is clearly in my eyes, why he's not getting a big deal done.

 

For comparison sake, take a look at these two 3 yr stretches

 

QB1 - 39 GP, 691-1084 (att/cmp), 7881 yds, 59TD(5%) , 29 INT (3%), 7.3 Y/A, 7.2 AY/A, 202.1 Yards per game

QB2 - 43 GP, 774-1236 (att/cmp), 8857 yds, 51TD(4%) , 16 INT (1%), 7.2 Y/A, 7.4 AY/A, 206.0 Yards per game

 

QB1 is last Lamar - post MVP seasons

 

QB2 is Tyrod - Bills years

 

That's eye opening to me!

Do you have the rushing stats for this as well?

[HappyDays]

 

[benderbender]

They have money for OBJ but not their franchise QB

[Green Lightning]

14 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Yup, the players whose career can end on one play without guaranteed contracts are the idiots. Not the billionaires owners.

Not idiots, but you need some self awareness. You've missed 12 games in the past several seasons -- so owners know your career can end on one play and so can their investment. Fully guaranteed was not in the cards. Plus  the agent thing. Talks get plenty personal and fast when it's face-to-face. You need that buffer and frankly someone who knows more than you about high level NFL negotiations. Lamarr just overplayed his hand. Maybe having OBJ will be a nice consolation prize.

[Gunvald's Husse]

10 hours ago, benderbender said:

They have money for OBJ but not their franchise QB

They had money for Lamar too, just not the money/conditions he demanded.

[KDIGGZ]

Lamar is not a good passer and OBJ is washed. That's a lot of money to spend for a team that is hoping to sneak into a wildcard spot.

 

Interested to see what happens with Lamar's contract now. If he's under the tag does he skip the entire preseason and then show up out of shape and out of sync with the offense? This could be a disaster for everyone involved

[stuvian]

15 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

So neither one knows when it's 4th down to run or pass to the 1st down marker?

Cousins does not know this as demonstrated in this year's playoffs

[Green Lightning]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

Cousins does not know this as demonstrated in this year's playoffs

Right, I just thought he would run or pass past the 1st down marker....

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Not idiots, but you need some self awareness. You've missed 12 games in the past several seasons -- so owners know your career can end on one play and so can their investment. Fully guaranteed was not in the cards. Plus  the agent thing. Talks get plenty personal and fast when it's face-to-face. You need that buffer and frankly someone who knows more than you about high level NFL negotiations. Lamarr just overplayed his hand. Maybe having OBJ will be a nice consolation prize.

Trust me, I know Lamar has definitely dropped the ball in several ways. But I never get why people get worked up over negotiating. He hasn’t missed a game and it’s the end result that matters. If he ends up getting his money or close to it, what did this really effect?

[Captain Hindsight]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Trust me, I know Lamar has definitely dropped the ball in several ways. But I never get why people get worked up over negotiating. He hasn’t missed a game and it’s the end result that matters. If he ends up getting his money or close to it, what did this really effect?

Nothing really, but I think most feel he has overplayed his hand. Its really an interesting look into NFL contracts and how teams operate. Lamar is an incredible player, and I'm sure he will make a lot of money in his career. But IMO this situation has not been handled well on his part 

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Trust me, I know Lamar has definitely dropped the ball in several ways. But I never get why people get worked up over negotiating. He hasn’t missed a game and it’s the end result that matters. If he ends up getting his money or close to it, what did this really effect?

 

?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, benderbender said:

They have money for OBJ but not their franchise QB

maybe they don't view him as a franchise QB

 

[Goin Breakdown]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

"Hey man come to Baltimore where we'll win a super bowl, but I also have to let you know I want out of Baltimore "

Something about this report doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Either that or the whole Lamar not happy thing has been made more than what it is.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

44 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

?

I meant for the upcoming season. 

37 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

"Hey man come to Baltimore where we'll win a super bowl, but I also have to let you know I want out of Baltimore "

Something about this report doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Either that or the whole Lamar not happy thing has been made more than what it is.

 

 

It’s all negotiations.  He doesn’t want to leave and the Ravens don’t want to lose him.  I get both sides. 

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I meant for the upcoming season.

 

Well of course not, they haven't played it yet.  But getting injured the last 1/3 of the past 2 seasons and missing the first playoff game is a huge red flag, especially for a player who runs so much and thus has a higher chance of getting injured.

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Lamar is not a good passer and OBJ is washed. That's a lot of money to spend for a team that is hoping to sneak into a wildcard spot.

 

Interested to see what happens with Lamar's contract now. If he's under the tag does he skip the entire preseason and then show up out of shape and out of sync with the offense? This could be a disaster for everyone involved

If no long term contract met (which I doubt will) than Lamar signs the franchise tender to play the season and prove his doubters wrong. He proves them right as gets injured again and struggles in a more traditional offense and the Ravens see him leave as an UFA in 2024 meanwhile they drafted his successor in this draft when they draft Hendon Hooker in a trade up. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Punching Bag]

14 hours ago, benderbender said:

They have money for OBJ but not their franchise QB

 

they have money for OBJ but NOT TOO MUCH GUARENTEED MONEY for their often injured QB.

[Scott7975]

18 hours ago, benderbender said:

They have money for OBJ but not their franchise QB

 

There is a difference between 15 million and 250 million.

[Augie]

22 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

There is a difference between 15 million and 250 million.

 

You’re paying attention, I can tell.  😋

[Billl]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Trust me, I know Lamar has definitely dropped the ball in several ways. But I never get why people get worked up over negotiating. He hasn’t missed a game and it’s the end result that matters. If he ends up getting his money or close to it, what did this really affect?

People are really taking this personally.  It’s as if a man they’ll never meet who has never played for a team they cheer for is personally insulting them by not agreeing to an offer right away.  There’s no rational explanation for it.

5 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

If no long term contract met (which I doubt will) than Lamar signs the franchise tender to play the season and prove his doubters wrong. He proves them right as gets injured again and struggles in a more traditional offense and the Ravens see him leave as an UFA in 2024 meanwhile they drafted his successor in this draft when they draft Hendon Hooker in a trade up. 

So they’re going to let a 26 year old QB walk and draft a 25 year old QB?

[QLBillsFan]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Trust me, I know Lamar has definitely dropped the ball in several ways. But I never get why people get worked up over negotiating. He hasn’t missed a game and it’s the end result that matters. If he ends up getting his money or close to it, what did this really effect?

Demonstrates poor leadership. Not understanding his market. Taking negatively about the team that was the only one to take him in the first round. They believed in him and built a unique O around him. His repayment is to seek an unreasonable contract. So even if he comes back the relationship has been hurt. OBJ for one year at silly $ really should make no difference to Lamar as his long term may not benefit from having him one year. 

[QLBillsFan]

10 hours ago, Gunvald's Husse said:

They had money for Lamar too, just not the money/conditions he demanded.

Well they offered him 6 years $ 175m and total of $290m.. seems they have the $ and offered it to him. The OBJ contract is beyond foolish! But the Lamar offer that he turned down is worse. 

[QLBillsFan]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:19 PM, Billl said:

I always find it incredible that people on message boards always think they know better than the actual players when it comes to those players’ finances.

Well right now pretty much anyone has a better idea than what Lamar is doing. He will never regain the $ he’s lost. So it’s incredible that that you think it’s incredible 😂 

[Billl]

31 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Well right now pretty much anyone has a better idea than what Lamar is doing. He will never regain the $ he’s lost. So it’s incredible that that you think it’s incredible 😂 

What money has he lost?

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

What money has he lost?

It's a negotiation. We won't know until it's over. Can you show us the path in which you feel this has increased his value? 

 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, KzooMike said:

It's a negotiation. We won't know until it's over. Can you show us the path in which you feel this has increased his value? 

 

 

Yeah, I’m afraid that does not quickly come to mind. He does not come off well, and THAT is why you have agents. They don’t take it personally, they will tell you the truth, and help you see the light. Lamar could probably make up the difference in endorsements if he didn’t appear to be petulant. The man deserves professional representation. I hope he gets it.

 

Regardless, he’ll be set for life. 

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

What money has he lost?

 

The money he would have made if he signed in 2021.

 

”Jackson was eligible for a new contract in 2021. He instead earned $1.77 million that year. Last year, under the fifth-year option, he made $23 million. That’s $24.77 million total over the last two years.

Just look at Josh Allen. Even at the maximum allowed rate of three percent, he has received $64.214 million over the last two years. Jackson has received 100 percent of $24.77 million.“

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/11/will-lamar-jackson-hire-an-agent-now-probably-not/amp/

[Billl]

14 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

It's a negotiation. We won't know until it's over. Can you show us the path in which you feel this has increased his value? 

 

I’m not claiming he has.  The statement I responded to was claiming he’d never recoup the money he’d lost when the reality is that he hasn’t lost a dime.  

[QLBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, Billl said:

What money has he lost?

By not signing a similar contract to JA at the same time Josh did. It has cost him between $30-40M through this year. Assuming he signs for only the $32M and not a long term context. Numerous people have articles or podcasts on it. JA  has earned $85M while Lamar has earned around $55M give or take as stated above. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by QLBillsFan