Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[Don Otreply]

Lamar isn’t doing himself any favors, it would not surprise me in the slightest that no one trades for him, and Baltimore refuses to give in, then he pouts and sits out the upcoming season, and then gets released and ends up on a crap team, and become just another QB who coulda been a contender…, it would make a great thirty for thirty episode, 😂

Edited March 27, 2023 by Don Otreply

[nucci]

Is he considered under contract? Hasn't signed so how do you trade him?

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Lamar isn’t doing himself any favors, it would not surprise me in the slightest that no one trades for him, and Baltimore refuses to give in, then he pouts and sits out the upcoming season, and then gets released and ends up on a crap team, and become just another QB who coulda been a contender…, it would make a great thirty for thirty episode, 😂

 

He'll just cost himself even more money he'll never recoup if he sits out, especially since he'll be fined $88K for missing minicamp and $30K/day for missing training camp.  Then game checks.

 

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

Is he considered under contract? Hasn't signed so how do you trade him?

 

He's been franchise tagged.

[Bruffalo]

Yes, Lamar, this is what potential teams want.

 

A QB with no agent that airs it all out on Twitter.  That'll definitely increase your value.  

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

He's been franchise tagged.

doesn't he have to sign it before being traded?

[wppete]

Lamar is very noisy. Loves the attention. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, nucci said:

doesn't he have to sign it before being traded?

 

Yes he does. But I think that once Lamar has a deal in place, and a trade in place, THEN he would sign the tag in order for everything to be executed.

[FireChans]

Just now, nucci said:

doesn't he have to sign it before being traded?

Yes,technically.  But players have no recourse but to sign or they just get no money and no year accrued.

[DCOrange]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

Is he considered under contract? Hasn't signed so how do you trade him?

He can't be traded unless he signs the franchise tag/signs a new contract. Presumably any team that negotiates a trade for him would also be negotiating a new contract for him before the trade is executed.

Edited March 27, 2023 by DCOrange

[FireChans]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yes he does. But I think that once Lamar has a deal in place, and a trade in place, THEN he would sign the tag in order for everything to be executed.

So what I'm reading is that teams can't outbid the transition tag 2 firsts for a QB as well. 

 

So the market is still 2 firsts and a fully GTD contract for LJ.  Just like the last 3 weeks.

[Doc]

Just now, FireChans said:

So what I'm reading is that teams can't outbid the transition tag 2 firsts for a QB as well. 

 

So the market is still 2 firsts and a fully GTD contract for LJ.  Just like the last 3 weeks.

 

I believe the Ravens can ask for lower compensation.  

[DCOrange]

Just now, Doc said:

 

I believe the Ravens can ask for lower compensation.  

Correct. A trade does not have to include two 1st round picks (though it probably should just from a trade value perspective).

[BillsShredder83]

7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Lamar isn’t doing himself any favors, it would not surprise me in the slightest that no one trades for him, and Baltimore refuses to give in, then he pouts and sits out the upcoming season, and then gets released and ends up on a crap team, and become just another QB who coulda been a contender…, it would make a great thirty for thirty episode, 😂

I think this is the nail in the coffin of him sitting this year out. Only way he plays is if hes willing to sign a deal like the Ravens offered previously, which was what? Like 3 years fully guaranteed?  Then you kinda know you wont be able to sign him once that expires. Now he's three years older, his value is down again lol  what a mess, hes playing his way out of the league. Would not shock me in the least if weve seen the last of him on a field.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

So what I'm reading is that teams can't outbid the transition tag 2 firsts for a QB as well. 

 

So the market is still 2 firsts and a fully GTD contract for LJ.  Just like the last 3 weeks.

 

Yep, nothing is changing.

 

Lamar:

 

Just now, Doc said:

 

I believe the Ravens can ask for lower compensation.  

 

I dont think they can. Give me a sec to find a link....

[nucci]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

Correct. A trade does not have to include two 1st round picks (though it probably should just from a trade value perspective).

I get that everything is negotiable but as soon as he signs the franchise tag, doesn't the team owe 2 firsts?

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yep, nothing is changing.

 

Lamar:

 

 

I dont think they can. Give me a sec to find a link....

Except Lamar revealing to the world that no one has wanted him at his price point for a month instead of 2 weeks.

 

It's like telling potential employers you've been unemployed for 6 months when they ask what you've been doing the last two weeks.

[TOboy]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

I get that everything is negotiable but as soon as he signs the franchise tag, doesn't the team owe 2 firsts?

I think the Ravens have the right to match. If they choose not to, then they are owed the 2 1st rounders. 
 

So a team could conceivably offer more compensation to get the Ravens to let him go. 

[FireChans]

Just now, TOboy said:

I think the Ravens have the right to match. If they choose not to, then they are owed the 2 1st rounders. 
 

So a team could conceivably offer more compensation to get the Ravens to let him go. 

Don't think so.  The compensation can't exceed 2 firsts by the rules of the tag.

[TheFunPolice]

If Lamar is determined not to play there anymore then the Ravens should cash in now while his price would be highest.

 

Don't be the Packers and let it become personal and petty. Do what is good for business. 

 

You don't want to be the team holding a young, superstar QB's career hostage from either a PR or business standpoint. If they announced that they were willing to do a traditional trade then there would be suitors and they could get a huge haul. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[BillsShredder83]

Just now, FireChans said:

Don't think so.  The compensation can't exceed 2 firsts by the rules of the tag.

Could the Ravens do a 1 day/ $1 contract to get around that? Seems like there are some creative solutions here.  Its so weird to handcuff a team to their own detriment, when the tag was a measure that was supposed to give teams leverage.

 

If Balt, Team X, and Lamar are all on the same page about a deal, why would the NFL split hairs and block it? Weird

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

If Lamar is determined not to play there anymore then the Ravens should cash in now while his price would be highest.

 

Don't be the Packers and let it become personal and petty. Do what is good for business. 

 

You don't want to be the team holding a young, superstar QB's career hostage from either a PR or business standpoint. If they announced that they were willing to do a traditional trade then there would be suitors and they could get a huge haul. 

They can't and they wouldn't. No one is trading for Lamar without agreeing to a long-term deal. No one wanted to trade 2 firsts and give LJ that contract, obviously.  And now, with the tag, they can't give any more than 2 firsts.

 

Lamar will have to cave to get a team to trade for him.  He lawst. 

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Could the Ravens do a 1 day/ $1 contract to get around that? Seems like there are some creative solutions here.  Its so weird to handcuff a team to their own detriment, when the tag was a measure that was supposed to give teams leverage.

 

If Balt, Team X, and Lamar are all on the same page about a deal, why would the NFL split hairs and block it? Weird

No because there are deadlines to the contract. He has been tagged by NFL deadlines, regardless of when he actually puts pen to paper.

 

NFL franchise tag deadline 2023

Date: Tuesday, March 7

If a team makes the decision to tag a player, they can still sign that player to a long-term extension. However, they would have only until 4 p.m. ET on July 15. At that point, players will be forced to play out the year on the tag. If they choose not to sign the tag, they will be ineligible to play for any other team for the entirety of the season.

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-franchise-tags-values-deadlines-2023/ixapk2dwbgnaj3eth4hyoyrp

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Could the Ravens do a 1 day/ $1 contract to get around that? Seems like there are some creative solutions here.  Its so weird to handcuff a team to their own detriment, when the tag was a measure that was supposed to give teams leverage.

 

If Balt, Team X, and Lamar are all on the same page about a deal, why would the NFL split hairs and block it? Weird

 

What's the detriment to Baltimore?

 

The tag use here is giving Baltimore the leverage. After all this, Lamar is coming back and playing at $32M this year. Or the Ravens get two 1sts. Sounds like a win either way.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Malazan]

Browns really screwed the Ravens hard. No one is giving up 2 1sts to hand him a deal like that. 

[Virgil]

I don’t see how this changes the narrative at all. Even if someone trades for him, they still need to negotiate a contract for him, which no one seems to want to meet his demands. 
 

And if he took less money, that trade would still be more than two 1sts. 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don’t see how this changes the narrative at all. Even if someone trades for him, they still need to negotiate a contract for him, which no one seems to want to meet his demands. 
 

And if he took less money, that trade would still be more than two 1sts. 

 

Yep. Nothing has changed. Lamar is still tagged. Teams can negotiate with him and trade two 1sts for him. That's the whole story.

[Dr. K]

On 3/25/2023 at 12:59 PM, QLBillsFan said:

AM should give back the $ he stole from Ralph Wilson. The only thibg currently going on in sports is that of black athlete privilege. AM is unaware that the NFL has caught up to the cred and rev talent that is Lamar.  He’s somewhere between the  12-16 best QB in the league with a downward trajectory. Sorry that’s the facts. And he’s made completely avoidable poor decisions that have impacted his value and reputation. MM doesn’t have the courage to speak to the current black athlete privilege that is overwhelmingly negatively impacting sports. 

I think Lamar is not handling his situation well, and does not have an accurate assessment of where he stands in the league's hierarchy of QBs right now, but basing your argument against him on something you call "black athlete privilege" is not a good look. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What's the detriment to Baltimore?

 

The tag use here is giving Baltimore the leverage. After all this, Lamar is coming back and playing at $32M this year. Or the Ravens get two 1sts. Sounds like a win either way.

 

Or, third option, LJ is sitting out an entire year and hoping he can swing a Watson deal next season. 

 

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don’t see how this changes the narrative at all. Even if someone trades for him, they still need to negotiate a contract for him, which no one seems to want to meet his demands. 
 

And if he took less money, that trade would still be more than two 1sts. 

Again, it can't.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Or, third option, LJ is sitting out an entire year and hoping he can swing a Watson deal next season.

 

I wouldnt put it past Lamar to think that would work. I have a feeling what would actually happen is practically the end of his career.

[BillsShredder83]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What's the detriment to Baltimore?

 

The tag use here is giving Baltimore the leverage. After all this, Lamar is coming back and playing at $32M this year. Or the Ravens get two 1sts. Sounds like a win either way.

 

The two 1sts is likely a hang up.  I think if it were a 1st and then a 2 or 3, or some pick package, might motivate other potential buyers.

I dont think Lamar is going to play on the tag, Ravens might call his bluff, but it seems like a better outcome for everyone if a trade gets done. Id think Balt would rather take a first and 2nd/3rd or whatever, then continue down this road.  Seems like the tag is handcuffing them if thats what they want to do

[ExWNYer]

Goodell watching Lamar vs the Ravens...

 

[nucci]

3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

The two 1sts is likely a hang up.  I think if it were a 1st and then a 2 or 3, or some pick package, might motivate other potential buyers.

I dont think Lamar is going to play on the tag, Ravens might call his bluff, but it seems like a better outcome for everyone if a trade gets done. Id think Balt would rather take a first and 2nd/3rd or whatever, then continue down this road.  Seems like the tag is handcuffing them if thats what they want to do

The only way the Ravens get 2 1sts is if he signs an offer sheet and Ravens don't match. If he signs the tag the Ravens can trade him for whatever they can get...or keep him

Edited March 27, 2023 by nucci

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

The two 1sts is likely a hang up.  I think if it were a 1st and then a 2 or 3, or some pick package, might motivate other potential buyers.

I dont think Lamar is going to play on the tag, Ravens might call his bluff, but it seems like a better outcome for everyone if a trade gets done. Id think Balt would rather take a first and 2nd/3rd or whatever, then continue down this road.  Seems like the tag is handcuffing them if thats what they want to do

 

Maybe. IMO, if I'm Baltimore I'm just sitting pat. I want those 2 1sts because I'm going to need the assets in order to draft a replacement QB next year.

 

No need for Baltimore to change or waiver on a single thing.

 

Lamar sitting out this year, and losing another $32M, is hilarious. I've never seen someone lose out on so much money by trying to hold out for so much more that is never coming. It's almost sad.

[Mr. WEO]

46 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

Oh you didn’t watch any news during the fiasco. The condemnation/mockery was fairly universal. 
 

There have been much worse to hold the HC position. 

 

The media, social and traditional, widely mocked the hiring. 

 

The Owners had nothing to do with it, so they could hardly have "colluded against him".   I'm sure they were happy to see this dumb choice made by one of their competitors.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Harbaugh, class act.

 

But sorry, John. I'm just a nobody message board poster. So I'm here TO JUDGE!

 

 

Most likely outcome.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Cant the Ravens revoke the tag and just negotiate their own deal at this point though? Seems like a silly thing for the NFL to block. The two 1sts is there to protect the team that used the tag, if they want to negotiate for something less, it seems weird to stop them from doing it.

 

I dont think it sets a precedent that takes away value of the tag for other teams down the road. weird

 

I think once the tag is "declared" that sets the rest of the rules in motion.  Lamar and Ravens could do a deal or Lamar can find a trade partner.

Of course, that changes some on July 15th.  Until Lamar signs the tag I don't think the Ravens can do any wheeling and dealing.

 

I see you point about the teams wants but I guess the NFLPA is protecting the player too.  I'm guessing.  Maybe this situation will force a change.

[BillsShredder83]

22 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Maybe. IMO, if I'm Baltimore I'm just sitting pat. I want those 2 1sts because I'm going to need the assets in order to draft a replacement QB next year.

 

No need for Baltimore to change or waiver on a single thing.

 

Lamar sitting out this year, and losing another $32M, is hilarious. I've never seen someone lose out on so much money by trying to hold out for so much more that is never coming. It's almost sad.

It really is Leveon, just with higher stakes. He should be chilling relaxing, instead his offseason is full of high stress. Not really ideal for him.

Aside from the $$, that's another great reason to have an agent.  Keeps feelings in check. There are things negotiation wise that a player would be better off not hearing, that an agent can deal with.

 

Hearing from the team direct, we think your a top 5 qb, but from being #1 in mobility, and #10 in passing, is a good example. Stay outta the hardball part of negotiating

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Cant the Ravens revoke the tag and just negotiate their own deal at this point though? Seems like a silly thing for the NFL to block. The two 1sts is there to protect the team that used the tag, if they want to negotiate for something less, it seems weird to stop them from doing it.

 

I dont think it sets a precedent that takes away value of the tag for other teams down the road. weird

 

If they revoke it he becomes a free agent.

[Low Positive]

5 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

It really is Leveon, just with higher stakes. He should be chilling relaxing, instead his offseason is full of high stress. Not really ideal for him.

Aside from the $$, that's another great reason to have an agent.  Keeps feelings in check. There are things negotiation wise that a player would be better off not hearing, that an agent can deal with.

 

Hearing from the team direct, we think your a top 5 qb, but from being #1 in mobility, and #10 in passing, is a good example. Stay outta the hardball part of negotiating

NHL players talk about how difficult arbitration hearings are because they are in the room to hear the team tear their performance apart in an attempt to get a lower ruling. It must feel strange due to the disconnect between the Ravens' marketing of Lamar the player and their refusal to pay him what he feels his performance warrants. 

 

[BillsShredder83]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

If they revoke it he becomes a free agent.

Ahhh ok. Sounds like their is a work around to the 2 firsts though. Work out trade compensation, Lamar world out a contract, Lamar signs the tag, which allows the trade to happen for whatever picks were negotiated.

[ExWNYer]

34 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

'CYA' 101