QLBillsFan Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 34 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: I think this is going to blow up into an enormous firestorm that is going to look terrible for the NFL. I would be apoplectic if the Bills were in the Falcons or Panthers spot and came immediately out to say they weren't interested. No discussion even. No meetings. Just zero interest. Again why a firestorm? David Tepper Panthers owner is spoken as a guy who wants to make a huge splash in the Carolina market. Lamar seems to make sense but why no interest ? The $ vs the future production don’t line up. Not a Ravens fan but that team is as respected as any NFL franchise. And they are saying.. feel free to make a deal with Lamar. That is really interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 20 minutes ago, chongli said: So everyone understands "former MVP" means nothing, right? Teams don't want to give a fully guaranteed contract to a run first QB who has had trouble finishing each of the last two seasons. Especially since he is notoriously impossible to negotiate with. It isn't any more complicated than that. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Lamar Jackson will be in this league for the next 4 years unless something catastrophic happens. In that time he will be the starting QB for some franchise. The NFL owners are desparately trying to delay the inevitable. Upper echelon QBs will be getting fully guaranteed deals in the near future. Does anyone here really think contracts given to star guys like Mahomes, Allen and soon, Burrow aren't all but guaranteed anyway? They will all see the life of their contracts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 6 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: Judging by the fact that no teams were allowed to talk to Lamar before the tag was applied, and within an hour a half dozen QB needy teams came out to say they weren't interested seems a bit fishy. But who knows... It looks bad though. If he is demanding a billion dollars guaranteed, then it is bad….on him. If they are truly “out” on him at any price or guarantee level,, that is weird and bad on them and makes no sense. Neither of those pass the smell test for being real, but before a team writes a check for $1, they have to ship two firsts. That’s a factor, no? I’m not denying there could be collusion but there is far too little actual evidence to reach that conclusion. In your own words you are “judging” but we are not in a position to do that. IMO Jackson is a QB who should end up with a big money contract….if Daniel Jones get 40, Lamar should get a lot…..but he is the wrong guy to get some sort of full guarantee….is there even a right guy at that position? Cleveland’s desperation seems to have initiated the guarantee issue but non-guarantee is certainly still the norm. If guarantees become the norm the cap becomes very real and truly will hinder a lot of teams. Because Cleveland took on that risk does not mean everyone will, especially with a guy that just missed an extended period with an injury and will cost an additional two firsts. A team would be colluding against itself to fully guarantee a Jackson and give up two firsts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: Judging by the fact that no teams were allowed to talk to Lamar before the tag was applied, and within an hour a half dozen QB needy teams came out to say they weren't interested seems a bit fishy. But who knows... It looks bad though. Actually no team can talk to a tagged player until the league year starts, which is on 3/15. Prior to that the player would need permission from the team. As for collision, it certainly seems so. In a world where Geno Smith gets 3/$105M and Daniel Jones gets 4/$160M, you’d think a team would want to have a discussion with Lamar just to put an offer on the table. Just because he’s demanding a fully guaranteed contract from the Ravens doesn’t mean he won’t take the best deal at the end of the day. Edited March 8 by BarleyNY 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) Lmao @ everyone with it looks fishy nonsense Lamar is a dud in the playoffs and stays hurt, it’s pretty simple stuff Edited March 8 by Teddy KGB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 10 hours ago, chongli said: Everyone in the NFL (including the Ravens) knows that Lamar Jackson is simply not a great passing quarterback. In order to succeed, he needs a specialized offense built primarily around his ability to run the ball. And once his legs and athleticism start declining, Jackson will no longer be able to beat defenses with his arm. I know that people will immediately bring up Jackson's strong passing stats to defend him. But those numbers are an illusion, built on the tremendous respect defenses show him as a running threat. Teams usually play the Ravens by overloading the box with run defenders, keeping linebackers in as spies, and asking pass rushers to just play contain instead of trying to get sacks. This makes it much easier to find receivers wide open downfield. With each passing injury and age, Jackson will become less mobile and less of a threat to run. When this happens, defenses will feel more comfortable playing normal coverage schemes. Those wide open receivers will be a thing of the past. Jackson will need to start reading defenses from the pocket, and make pinpoint throws into tight windows. After five seasons in the NFL, he hasn't displayed a strong ability to do that. Jackson is a blast to watch. But the reality is, he already peaked in 2019. And even in his amazing MVP season, the Ravens were knocked out of the playoffs in the Divisional Round (after scoring 12 measly points). The last two seasons, he hasn't been able to stay healthy either. I can't blame any team for being skeptical of trading two 1st Round picks, and then handing him the biggest contract in NFL history. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 10 hours ago, chongli said: Plus, it could be argued he did not play in the playoffs last year when he was fully capable. If he was fully capable (and there were rumblings he was), I can understand him not doing that without a long-term contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 9 hours ago, Doc Brown said: The conspiracy theorist in me says that's the assumption they want you to make. It's not collusion. It's well known that the failure to get a deal done was because Lamar wanted a fully guaranteed contract. Just because the Browns were dumb enough to give a fully guaranteed record qb contract doesn't meant another team is. If I'm Lamar, I hire an agent and back off the fully guaranteed demand. He's one bad step away from losing generational wealth playing on the non exclusive franchise tag. It's hard for me to hold it against Lamar to ask for fully guaranteed and mostly perplexes me as to why the Browns ownership didn't get forced out for wrecking the market. That deal was outrageous. The only thing the Browns seemed to win in the negotiation was paying him the 1 million for his first year they knew he'd be suspended for. Deshaun Watson is an unending PR nightmare that even championships won't erase. Yet he was the only person to have a guaranteed contract. This reset the market, but you're supposed to not notice. Kyler Murray got the same basic Watson contract just with 60% guaranteed money. It's amusing to me that teams would say "Ah, you see? Murray's contract isn't guaranteed and that was the last deal so THAT is the reset. Forget about fully guaranteed now." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 18 minutes ago, benderbender said: It's hard for me to hold it against Lamar to ask for fully guaranteed and mostly perplexes me as to why the Browns ownership didn't get forced out for wrecking the market. That deal was outrageous. The only thing the Browns seemed to win in the negotiation was paying him the 1 million for his first year they knew he'd be suspended for. Deshaun Watson is an unending PR nightmare that even championships won't erase. Yet he was the only person to have a guaranteed contract. This reset the market, but you're supposed to not notice. Kyler Murray got the same basic Watson contract just with 60% guaranteed money. It's amusing to me that teams would say "Ah, you see? Murray's contract isn't guaranteed and that was the last deal so THAT is the reset. Forget about fully guaranteed now." No one cares anymore. The Daniel Jones deal is the new "outrageous". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 I think there are 6 guys teams would be willing to trade 2 first-round picks for: Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Hurts, and Lawrence. I think the price hurts Jackson. I also think people are looking at that Russell Wilson trade and seeing how giving up all that draft capital is probably not the answer. I like Lamar but he has sat out so much and it seems like the book on stopping him may have been found. I would love to see what he could do outside of a Greg Roman offense and if I were a team like Tampa Bay, I would be all over him. If I'm the Jets, same. If I were the Patriots I am calling Baltimore and offering Mac Jones and picks. These teams have pretty good rosters and are a QB away from competing. If I am the Commanders, same. The fact that some of these teams flat-out said they have no interest is indeed weird and may be an attempt to discourage guys from representing themselves. That is where he makes his most critical mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Doc said: If he was fully capable (and there were rumblings he was), I can understand him not doing that without a long-term contract. So highlighting he’s a me first guy. The Ravens are a highly respected franchise. I’m seeing Newsome and the leadership are not signing up for the insane guaranteed $. Add that to how things ended last season and that is resonating across the league. His play upside and O based on him, health, and leadership are all concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 54 minutes ago, benderbender said: It's hard for me to hold it against Lamar to ask for fully guaranteed and mostly perplexes me as to why the Browns ownership didn't get forced out for wrecking the market. That deal was outrageous. The only thing the Browns seemed to win in the negotiation was paying him the 1 million for his first year they knew he'd be suspended for. Deshaun Watson is an unending PR nightmare that even championships won't erase. Yet he was the only person to have a guaranteed contract. This reset the market, but you're supposed to not notice. Kyler Murray got the same basic Watson contract just with 60% guaranteed money. It's amusing to me that teams would say "Ah, you see? Murray's contract isn't guaranteed and that was the last deal so THAT is the reset. Forget about fully guaranteed now." Not amusing just logical. As you say the Browns foolishly tried to drive the new guarantee market. The NFL is being incredibly generous to the QB position. See Seahawks, Giants, Saints this week. But the fully guaranteed market is just giving away $ unnecessarily. It’s just smart business. Lamar has clearly benefited from having his mom in charge. Yikes… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 9 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said: So highlighting he’s a me first guy. The Ravens are a highly respected franchise. I’m seeing Newsome and the leadership are not signing up for the insane guaranteed $. Add that to how things ended last season and that is resonating across the league. His play upside and O based on him, health, and leadership are all concerns. But why should he take the risk when he has no contract after the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 If I were a QB needy team I would rather invest draft picks in moving up to get a rookie in the draft. Cheaper, team controlled contract, and I would imagine, they wouldn't act as their own agent if/when it's time to renegotiate. LJ wouldn't be worth the headache for me if I was in charge of a team, not to mention most teams would have to completely overhaul their offense like the ravens did to fit his skillset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 hours ago, mjt328 said: Everyone in the NFL (including the Ravens) knows that Lamar Jackson is simply not a great passing quarterback. In order to succeed, he needs a specialized offense built primarily around his ability to run the ball. And once his legs and athleticism start declining, Jackson will no longer be able to beat defenses with his arm. I know that people will immediately bring up Jackson's strong passing stats to defend him. But those numbers are an illusion, built on the tremendous respect defenses show him as a running threat. Teams usually play the Ravens by overloading the box with run defenders, keeping linebackers in as spies, and asking pass rushers to just play contain instead of trying to get sacks. This makes it much easier to find receivers wide open downfield. With each passing injury and age, Jackson will become less mobile and less of a threat to run. When this happens, defenses will feel more comfortable playing normal coverage schemes. Those wide open receivers will be a thing of the past. Jackson will need to start reading defenses from the pocket, and make pinpoint throws into tight windows. After five seasons in the NFL, he hasn't displayed a strong ability to do that. Jackson is a blast to watch. But the reality is, he already peaked in 2019. And even in his amazing MVP season, the Ravens were knocked out of the playoffs in the Divisional Round (after scoring 12 measly points). The last two seasons, he hasn't been able to stay healthy either. I can't blame any team for being skeptical of trading two 1st Round picks, and then handing him the biggest contract in NFL history. I stated this back in 2020 about Josh vs Lamar and was literally called a racist by people on here. LJ is great to watch but you can't find a backup for him, you can't rely on him to finish a season, and your offense will have to be extra specialized to help him. This does not even mention that he can't be expected to comeback from multiple scores down in the 4th. If I am a team like ATL I am trying to get him Daniel Jones contract but nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanSD Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 I don't understand the "collusion" argument. Why would teams be colluding against Lamar Jackson? That doesn't make any sense considering some of the contracts that we've seen signed just this week. A much simpler explanation is that the shaky passer who isn't using an agent overestimated his market value. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 11 hours ago, benderbender said: If you were trying super hard to make it NOT seem like collusion, you’d at least ask these “sources” to not all say the same thing at the same time on the same day. I suspect they were thinking about the public impact on their fan bases expectations and their young QB's, not about any appearances of collusion. In fact it would have been stupid to insinuate that they were looking at Jackson as Lamar's contract demands make signing him very difficult and publicly expressing interest at the start of the process hurts their negotiating position. And for these specific teams saying nothing at the start is saying that they're interested in Jackson. BTW I enjoy seeing the Dolphins mess up as much as the next Bills fan but even I would think it cruel and unusual punishment to put Tua through another round of Miami going after a big name QB. Edited March 8 by CincyBillsFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 19 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: This is going to be a lot of fun to follow, and I hope some NFC team makes Lamar the highest paid player in NFL history. Makes the AFC a little easier, and Lamar gets a serious payday. If you look at SpotTrac he was making peanuts (like 1 million or so per season until his 5th year option) while the Ravens ran him into the ground. I can't blame the man for wanting to get his guaranteed money. AFC has been pretty easy for lots of teams even with Jackson in the conference. He's a playoff nonfactor. Flacco was 10-5. 16 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: If Lamar sits out the entire year would he become a free agent? Technically what's stopping the USFL or XFL from offering him $10 million dollars to play this spring to help tide him over this season while generating huge PR for their league? I just want to see Lamar stick it to the Ravens and the league at this point. This is straight up BS. lol the XFL doesn't have 2 dimes to rub together, let alone "$10 million dollars". The total league budget for players' salaries is under 25 million. Also, only 3 weeks in and their ratings are essentially approaching zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, BillsFanSD said: I don't understand the "collusion" argument. Why would teams be colluding against Lamar Jackson? That doesn't make any sense considering some of the contracts that we've seen signed just this week. A much simpler explanation is that the shaky passer who isn't using an agent overestimated his market value. This collusion stuff works with Lamar because of all the stuff going on with him since he was being drafted. These "pundits" know it will get the clicks up and that's just what certain people in the sports media want. Lamar screwed up and the Ravens did the smart thing to tag him with the "unrestricted". An agent would have explained that option clearly to him. One of these teams may change their minds IF Lamar adjusts his demands. The question is, what will Lamar do now? Answer, no one knows, I'm afraid not even Lamar himself. Lamar created this situation; he was offered a credible contract right after Josh signed. The ball is in his court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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