Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[That's No Moon]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:18 PM, Calidiehard said:

Injury history is enough to not put that option on the table.

His injury history is/was better than Watson's and he's got a cargo ship less baggage.  He should absolutely be asking for this.  It's Cleveland's fault for handing Watson silliness.

[JoPoy88]

18 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Then how does it work?  I mean, I can say "Your nonsense argument isn't how it works" and instantly invalidate your arguments just as much as you did mine.  Sorry, rebuffing a point requires an actual counter-argument, not a simple "Nu-uh!"

 

I'm not defending the owners.  I'm just pointing out the fallacy of the argument that since a single owner did something stupid, a precedent is somehow now set and owners are required to follow suit or it's "collusion".  If 3-4 QBs got similar contracts, then yeah.  That is an established pattern.  This is not.

 

So again, I challenge you to actually argue against my example instead of trying to handwave it away.  I predict you won't, and try to cover your inability to do so with hostile and condecending language.

 

Go ahead, prove me wrong.

I can’t “prove” your opinions wrong bud. But if you think, if you actually think that what I bolded above from your post is in any way how that world of multimillion dollar negotiation works, then you don’t know **** sorry. The precedent is most certainly set with Herbert, Burrow, et al. And they will be asking for more than Jackson, more than Watson.
 

All you’re doing is assuming the ownership position. “That Watson contract was BS.” You don’t even consider the retort. These previous deals, they matter. Everything’s a bargaining chip. Every good advocate uses them. And they certainly don’t care if they came from the most ######ed owner in the room.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

that’s not how it works and your ridiculous example doesn’t help your non-argument. 
 

I love how so many of you straight up nobodies are carrying water for these billionaire owners and trying to memory hole the Watson contract. Sorry but it happened. And Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow et al. also know it happened and will continue to negotiate based off it. People far smarter than us are and will be fighting this out going forward because of the Watson deal and y’all taking the side of the other “aggrieved” billionaires because one of their own was stupid, filppant and, dare I say, ballsy enough to break their unspoken precedent. A precedent which has already been broken in the other big 3 professional US sports. Christ. I’d call you bootlickers, but that’d be too kind.

I agree with all your points at how this could be collusion as it's defined.  However, I'd avoid using phrases like carrying water for billionaires when there is a minimum floor salary cap each team much meet as per the CBA.  It's just not smart business giving a long term guaranteed contract to anybody in the NFL (regardless of position) given the unique physicality of the sport.  The Browns are now stuck for their own stupidity and it doesn't mean other GM's should follow suit.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by Doc Brown

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I agree with all your points at how this could be collusion as it's defined.  However, I'd avoid using phrases like carrying water for billionaires when there is a minimum floor salary cap each team much meet as per the CBA.  It's just not smart business giving a long term guaranteed contract to anybody in the NFL (regardless of position) given the unique physicality of the sport.  The Browns are now stuck for their own stupidity and it doesn't mean other GM's should follow suit.  

Other GMs, other teams should absolutely not follow suit. That doesn’t mean Jackson or advocates for Jackson or similarly situated QB’s shouldn’t go for their absolute max value, which, sorry to say it, the Watson deal influences. 
 

Again, I don’t care who LJ eventually signs with or for what $$$. I just take pause at broke jagoffs on a message board trying to drag this kid for being “greedy” and save billionaires some money. Y’all ain’t getting a cut of the savings and it doesn’t affect the Bills at all. 
 

the market dictates what it dicates - the watson deal is part of that. 
 

“but..but..but…Cleveland shouldn’t count because their owners…[insert reasons here].”

 

So what. Have you read what Dan Snyder has done? What Jerral Jones has been accused of? 
 

they’re all crooks. But let’s overlook this particular crookery, because I think this guy ain’t worth what he’s asking. 
 

Again, bootlickers. All of you.

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Again, I don’t care who LJ eventually signs with or for what $$$. I just take pause at broke jagoffs on a message board trying to drag this kid for being “greedy” and save billionaires some money. Y’all ain’t getting a cut of the savings and it doesn’t affect the Bills at all. 

 

Exactly. In whatever line of work someone is in - if someone is being paid more than you for the same job and performance, you'd be a complete idiot to not at least try and get the same or better. 

 

I doubt any of these people would say "You know what? I think it's dumb what they're being paid. I'm going to take less and be happy about it. That'll show them!"

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Other GMs, other teams should absolutely not follow suit. That doesn’t mean Jackson or advocates for Jackson or similarly situated QB’s shouldn’t go for their absolute max value, which, sorry to say it, the Watson deal influences. 
 

Again, I don’t care who LJ eventually signs with or for what $$$. I just take pause at broke jagoffs on a message board trying to drag this kid for being “greedy” and save billionaires some money. Y’all ain’t getting a cut of the savings and it doesn’t affect the Bills at all. 
 

the market dictates what it dicates - the watson deal is part of that. 
 

“but..but..but…Cleveland shouldn’t count because their owners…[insert reasons here].”

 

So what. Have you read what Dan Snyder has done? What Jerral Jones has been accused of? 
 

they’re all crooks. But let’s overlook this particular crookery, because I think this guy ain’t worth what he’s asking. 
 

Again, bootlickers. All of you.

Please tell me again how he's saving billionaires some money when there is a minimum floor to the salary cap?

[BillsFanSD]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Look if you can’t understand it at this point go read a book. Better yet, go read the NFL bylaws. And I don’t care if x number of fans or x number of NFL GMs recognize the Watson contract as folly. Of course it was. It doesn’t change the fact that it exists and can be (and will be) used as precedent in negotiations between QBs, their agents, and teams going forward.
 

I am not saying teams/owners are actually colluding to keep Jackson’s contract/guaranteed money down. I have no idea. You asked “how is that collusion?” If teams, be their owners, GMs, or both, are speaking to each other and agreeing to not offer Jackson a certain amount of money or guaranteed money, or both, then that’s collusion. It hasn’t been proven. It’s been suggested. That’s how it could be collusion and thus a problem for the league.
 

please learn how to read something without injecting your preconceived notions into everything.

I don't recall talking to you before.  Sorry.

7 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

that’s not how it works and your ridiculous example doesn’t help your non-argument. 
 

I love how so many of you straight up nobodies are carrying water for these billionaire owners . . . . 

Oh, you're one of those people.  Never mind.

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Look if you can’t understand it at this point go read a book. Better yet, go read the NFL bylaws. And I don’t care if x number of fans or x number of NFL GMs recognize the Watson contract as folly. Of course it was. It doesn’t change the fact that it exists and can be (and will be) used as precedent in negotiations between QBs, their agents, and teams going forward.
 

I am not saying teams/owners are actually colluding to keep Jackson’s contract/guaranteed money down. I have no idea. You asked “how is that collusion?” If teams, be their owners, GMs, or both, are speaking to each other and agreeing to not offer Jackson a certain amount of money or guaranteed money, or both, then that’s collusion. It hasn’t been proven. It’s been suggested. That’s how it could be collusion and thus a problem for the league.
 

please learn how to read something without injecting your preconceived notions into everything. 

he asked how it could be collusion though. It’s not proven, for sure. But given what’s happened to jackson it certainly could be true. I have no opinion either way because how could I?
 

Personally I don’t think the guy you’re responding to knows the definition of the word.

It could be collusion but that is unproven.  Do I have that right?

 

It also could be unicorns or aliens……also not proven.  Prove it.

 

Also…..from another post of yours…..why do you think billionaires need “nobodies” to carry their water?

 

When  you were little and your mom asked, “would you jump off the bridge if your friend did”, did you understand what she was saying?  Later in life, if one of your friends did something very stupid, did the rest of your group avoid following suit?  Were you colluding or did you have enough instincts on your own to avoid stupidity?

 

Of course Jackson can try to use precedent in negotiations.  And the owners can as well.  Allen, Mahomes, and others got nothing like Watson nor did Geno or Jones in the last few days.  Occum’s Shaver says collusion, while possible, is far from the most likely reason Jackson is unsigned.

[Lost]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

that’s not how it works and your ridiculous example doesn’t help your non-argument. 
 

I love how so many of you straight up nobodies are carrying water for these billionaire owners and trying to memory hole the Watson contract. Sorry but it happened. And Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow et al. also know it happened and will continue to negotiate based off it. People far smarter than us are and will be fighting this out going forward because of the Watson deal and y’all taking the side of the other “aggrieved” billionaires because one of their own was stupid, filppant and, dare I say, ballsy enough to break their unspoken precedent. A precedent which has already been broken in the other big 3 professional US sports. Christ. I’d call you bootlickers, but that’d be too kind.

 

Not sure where you're going calling half the message board here bootlickers.  Everybody, including you..I think...agrees that Watson wasn't worth his contract.   And just about everybody including you...I think...agrees it would probably be foolish to give Lamar that much money guaranteed.   Just because everyone is thinking the same thing doesn't make it collusion. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

It could be collusion but that is unproven.  Do I have that right?

 

It also could be unicorns or aliens……also not proven.  Prove it.

 

Also…..from another post of yours…..why do you think billionaires need “nobodies” to carry their water?

 

When  you were little and your mom asked, “would you jump off the bridge if your friend did”, did you understand what she was saying?  Later in life, if one of your friends did something very stupid, did the rest of your group avoid following suit?  Were you colluding or did you have enough instincts on your own to avoid stupidity?

 

Of course Jackson can try to use precedent in negotiations.  And the owners can as well.  Allen, Mahomes, and others got nothing like Watson nor did Geno or Jones in the last few days.  Occum’s Shaver says collusion, while possible, is far from the most likely reason Jackson is unsigned.

but it does not suite his narrative and he can't hold some grudge against or find a victim if he sees it this way. therefore, he must be enraged.

[NeverOutNick]

7 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Other GMs, other teams should absolutely not follow suit. That doesn’t mean Jackson or advocates for Jackson or similarly situated QB’s shouldn’t go for their absolute max value, which, sorry to say it, the Watson deal influences. 
 

Again, I don’t care who LJ eventually signs with or for what $$$. I just take pause at broke jagoffs on a message board trying to drag this kid for being “greedy” and save billionaires some money. Y’all ain’t getting a cut of the savings and it doesn’t affect the Bills at all. 
 

the market dictates what it dicates - the watson deal is part of that. 
 

“but..but..but…Cleveland shouldn’t count because their owners…[insert reasons here].”

I 100% agree with this part of your response. The rest got off on a tangent lol

 

Lamar is perfectly fine going after all the $$$ he can get and Watson’s deal did happen and needs to be considered when looking at what he can get for himself. Should an NFL team give out another fully guaranteed deal? Probably not but I bet the number Lamar gets will be over $200 mil guaranteed with some extra incentives on top now because of the Watson deal.

 

It also smells fishy that teams have backed out so quickly on an available top 10 QB. I’m hopeful that it’s a smokescreen and behind the scenes Atlanta and other teams are finding out whatever they can on how to get Lamar as their QB. Love or Hate how Lamar plays the game, we can all agree he’s unique and would make any franchise some money in the short term along with making them a perennial playoff team (especially in the NFC).

Edited March 9, 2023 by NeverOutNick

[nucci]

I think his biggest problem is not having an agent. Do teams just call him. Is he contacting teams...are offers being exchanged? All things an agent would do

[BananaB]

Lamar Jackson is about to get humbled by the entire league. 

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, nucci said:

I think his biggest problem is not having an agent. Do teams just call him. Is he contacting teams...are offers being exchanged? All things an agent would do

 

He wants to save that 10%.  Have you seen the price of eggs lately?  He needs that extra $3-$4 million a year.

[H2o]

The talk of collusion against Lamar by the bobbleheads in "Sports Media", and the gullible who run with it, is ridiculous. I don't care if he's won an MVP. I don't care how much they try to talk him up. He's only had one season where he's thrown for more than 3,000 yards. He's also finished the last two years injured, having missed at least 5 games in 2021 and 2022. If he had not been injured, he likely would have had at least two more seasons over 3,000 yards. That's still nothing truly prolific, or in line with the upper echelon QB's in the NFL. The Browns did something stupid. Everyone knew it when it happened and everyone still knows it now. It doesn't force anyone else to cave into the same stupidity as Cleveland's management. 

 

The facts of the situation are:

 

1. Any team who wants to sign him has to fork over TWO 1st Round picks to the Ravens. 

2. On top of having to cough up TWO 1st Round picks, that team then has to be willing to cave to Lamar's contract demands. 

 

Which team in the NFL is going to give up TWO 1st Round picks for a QB with a single 3,000 passing campaign (MVP or not), who wants more than $235M gtd, and has missed 11 games over the last two seasons due to injury? None of them. The media was trying to talk it up like 4 or 5 teams were going to be in some kind of bidding war for the guy. Now that their stories have fallen flat it's "collusion" by the NFL owners against Lamar.  Really? So dumb. It can't possibly be that no team sees the risk outweighing the possible reward. Nooooo, not that. It can't be that none of them want to take that leap as an individual organization. No, it has to be that all of them have decided to do this together. Dumb. Lamar is one of the most elite athletes in the NFL. He's fun to watch. But the value he has placed upon himself, based off of one organization's irrational decision, and his "negotiating" tactics will blow up in his face. It seems to have somewhat already. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by H2o

[Doc]

Calling it collusion is hack journalism meant to create controversy.  No surprise it's from Florio and PFT.

[The Red King]

PSA for the day, yelling and insulting does not in any way make you right.  We're all being calm, while you're going on like you pounded a Red Bull after dumping ten Pixie Sticks in.  Try to keep it civil, please.

 

That aside, most, if not all of us think there is nothing wrong with Lamar chasing the $$$.  Given the Watson deal he's well within his right.

 

I think we're looking at it wrong.  There may well be collusion, but are they colluding against Jackson, or against contracts like Watson's?  In other words were it another QB looking for the same contract, would this still be playing out the same way?  I believe so.  If Jackson were asking for a normal, reasonable contract, would he still be looking for work?  Of course not.

 

The owners are colluding against contracts like Watson's, not against Lamar.

[dollars 2 donuts]

29 minutes ago, The Red King said:

PSA for the day, yelling and insulting does not in any way make you right.  We're all being calm, while you're going on like you pounded a Red Bull after dumping ten Pixie Sticks in.  Try to keep it civil, please.

 

That aside, most, if not all of us think there is nothing wrong with Lamar chasing the $$$.  Given the Watson deal he's well within his right.

 

I think we're looking at it wrong.  There may well be collusion, but are they colluding against Jackson, or against contracts like Watson's?  In other words were it another QB looking for the same contract, would this still be playing out the same way?  I believe so.  If Jackson were asking for a normal, reasonable contract, would he still be looking for work?  Of course not.

 

The owners are colluding against contracts like Watson's, not against Lamar.

 

 

Sober and well thought out, RK.

 

Now go **** yourself.

 

😂🤣

 

I'm just kidding, brother, you know that.

 

Seriously, I couldn't agree more. 

 

Man, am I one of the few people who really likes Jackson, both as a player and a person, and would be happy to see him get whatever he can get?

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[BillsShredder83]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Other GMs, other teams should absolutely not follow suit. That doesn’t mean Jackson or advocates for Jackson or similarly situated QB’s shouldn’t go for their absolute max value, which, sorry to say it, the Watson deal influences. 
 

Again, I don’t care who LJ eventually signs with or for what $$$. I just take pause at broke jagoffs on a message board trying to drag this kid for being “greedy” and save billionaires some money. Y’all ain’t getting a cut of the savings and it doesn’t affect the Bills at all. 
 

the market dictates what it dicates - the watson deal is part of that. 
 

“but..but..but…Cleveland shouldn’t count because their owners…[insert reasons here].”

 

So what. Have you read what Dan Snyder has done? What Jerral Jones has been accused of? 
 

they’re all crooks. But let’s overlook this particular crookery, because I think this guy ain’t worth what he’s asking. 
 

Again, bootlickers. All of you.

I dont think most here care who's greedy in terms of compensation.  Theres 3 things going on here

1. Lamar not being able to carry a team while taking up as much cap space as qb's who are actually able to be a threat from the pocket

2. The guy is no good to a team if hes never healthy. Hes past that point of healing like kids do, this is going to get worse

3. The people who are hostile about calling him greedy are salty at the idea of him skipping playoffs games where 31 other qb's start those games.  Hell theres been several current and former players to point this out (not even counting boo-boo foot here)

 

If a pocket passer like Brees cant carry a team on his back with such a large salary cap %, theres next to 0% chance Lamar will.  If someone else signs him, its going to be an owner looking to sell tickets for a few years, not a perennial winning org

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

There's 4 - 1st round draft pick like guys in this draft.  The following teams need QBs (possibly)

 

Jets

Colts

Titans

Texans

Raiders

Commanders

Falcons

Bucs

Panthers

49ers

 

Colts, Texans, Panthers, Falcons all pick in the top 10 and expect to probably draft people.  They're all also in the position to kind of wait, since they have serious needs beyond QB in many cases.  

 

Raiders Jets 49ers are waiting and seeing on Rodgers if i had to guess.  

 

Bucs know they're likely going to be bad, so losing 1st round picks would be rough.  

 

Teams also don't want to trade for a player with a massive cap hit, right before free agency opens.  There's just no rush to do so.  I expect if he signs elsewhere it'll be after the draft, and my guess is Raiders or Commanders.  I also think the Ravens will match.