Excluding QB, who has the better roster, Bills or Jets?

[Radar]

44 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

That’s the problem good luck finding another Josh Allen cause they just drafted 2 guys in the top 3 the last 5 years who don’t have his skill level if you combined them together. 

Yep, you need the quarterback in today's game. They aren't easy to find a franchise type guy. We're fortunate we didn't draft that other Josh most here would have taken.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

the bills suck, didn't you know that OP, so why even ask.

 

[Radar]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

the bills suck, didn't you know that OP, so why even ask.

 

They don't suck but they do have weaknesses that must be fixed.

[That's No Moon]

Jets and I don't think it's particularly close.

[Beast]

Anyone that starts out by saying Mosley is better than Edmunds loses all credibility right off the bat and has an obvious whining agenda.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The only thing I can think of is the late 90's Bills. They had a really good defense led by Ted Washington. But we had QB controversy with Flutie and Johnson. I always thought the Bills could have won the Super Bowl if MCM didn't happen. At the very least they would have had a good chance to get there.

Reasonable- Titans got there

[That's No Moon]

5 minutes ago, Beast said:

Anyone that starts out by saying Mosley is better than Edmunds loses all credibility right off the bat and has an obvious whining agenda.

Then I have no credibility I guess because I think he is. He's been hurt a lot, but as a player I think he's much better at what I want a linebacker to do. Frazier doesn't want linebackers though, he wants big safeties.

[JMM]

5 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 That's not how the NFL works. It's who's got a franchise QB and everything else is secondary.

THIS! We have a top 5 Qb, we will be competing for a SB most of his years. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Hopefully we get at least one.

[The Frankish Reich]

Other teams in recent memory that the Bills roster was worse than “other than QB”:

- the Colts in 2018-20

- the Broncos in 2019-21

- the Browns in 2020

 

So if the question is “trade Allen for some mediocre team’s QB and who’s better now,” the answer is pretty obvious. But no one is trading Allen for Zach Wilson or Teddy Bridgewater. Nor was anyone trading LeBron for Danilo Gallinari. 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

48 minutes ago, Radar said:

They don't suck but they do have weaknesses that must be fixed.

I was being facetious

[K-9]

The Jets have the better overall roster as they should given the abundance of premium draft picks. But as we’ve seen countless times over the years, superior rosters are often wasted when that roster isn’t superior at the most important position. Unless they get the QB position solved, that surrounding talent will wither more than win. 

[transient]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think it is the Bills but I think it is close. I look at it this way, if you put together a composite starting 21 (excluding QBs) what does it look like? To me:

 

Offense:

QB - excluded

RB - Breece Hall (NYJ)

TE - Dawson Knox (BUF)

WR1 - Stefon Diggs (BUF)

WR2 - Garrett Wilson (NYJ)

WR3 - Gabriel Davis (BUF)

LT - Dion Dawkins (BUF)

LG - Alijah Vera-Tucker (NYJ)

C - Mitch Morse (BUF)

RG - Laken Tomlinson (NYJ)

RT - Spencer Brown (BUF) 

 

While I agree that Davis is a WR3, I'm curious who you have as the WR2 on the Bills currently that Wilson is better than... or is Wilson better because he's the only horse in the race and the Bills don't have a true WR2?

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, transient said:

While I agree that Davis is a WR3, I'm curious who you have as the WR2 on the Bills currently that Wilson is better than... or is Wilson better because he's the only horse in the race and the Bills don't have a true WR2?

 

They are the best 3 receivers across the two teams. I like Elijah Moore's potential but his production has been meh. 

[gjv]

Jet roster is good enough that they could make the playoffs with Baker Mayfield.

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Ok the regular season then going forward. Right now, it's hard to answer until we go thru FA and the draft. But the Fins and Jets have closed the gap. Allen is the best QB in the division, but I am not sure the Bills have the best roster. The Bills are the favorite to win the division but if they don't, I wouldn't be surprised. Again, this is my answer now. That may change after the offseason moves are made by all 4 teams.

Agree 100%. Miami gave the Bills all they could handle in all three games they played. 

 

The Jets and Pats are solid and need QBs. 

 

The Bills are probably no longer a dominate team in the AFC East. Sure they are favored mainly because of Allen. 

 

After last year, it's pretty clear every team likely believes they have a legit chance to win the division. I don't think you could say that prior to last season. 

 

Imho, the Bills are no longer a feared team. The psychological edge is gone. 

9 hours ago, Process said:

The bills are currently second in odds to win the Superbowl next year. Way ahead of anyone else in the AFCE. And they will be heavy favorites to win the division.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

How much money you gonna put on the other teams?

Well I did win some betting Cinci. Easiest money I've ever collected. It was bitter sweet.

 

I have to see the development of the QB situations in Miami and the Jets. I think either team has a legit chance to knock off the overrated Bills. 

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, Process said:

The bills are currently second in odds to win the Superbowl next year. Way ahead of anyone else in the AFCE. And they will be heavy favorites to win the division.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

How much money you gonna put on the other teams?

Come on now stop embarrassing yourself. Your argument is feeble, weak, and unsubstantiated by last year's odds. Need I remind you of the Bills odds throughout last season? 

 

Take off that homerism hat and see what's happening to this team. It's a slow progression towards being a very good team not an elite Super Bowl team. 

 

The Bills organization is handicapped by the cap, pending contracts, and a faltering coaching staff. 

 

We fans are left with hope, promises, and luck. I'd rather rely on talent and great coaching.

 

Thus far, it's six years of an elite QB and counting. Coming up empty the last two years have been pretty demoralizing. What's gonna change this year to get the team over the hump? 

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 That's not how the NFL works. It's who's got a franchise QB and everything else is secondary.

Mostly true. Look at how the Eagles went after free agents to build around Hurts. Look how their players on both sides of the ball dominate the line of scrimmage. 

 

What did the Bills do to help out Allen? How successful have they been? Why hasn't the team advanced further?

 

These are serious questions the whole organization needs to answer and look at. There is no accountability here. Many seem satisfied with the playoff appearances. It feels like we the fans are being placated.

 

We deserve more and should have received more! This team frankly should have represented the AFC in the Super Bowl. It's a failure of Beane and the coaching staff to get it done. Now, the opportunity is slimmer because of Allen's contract and the cap issues. Missed opportunities...

Edited February 10, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

PFF Grades 2022

 

WR
Isaiah Hodgins 76.6
Gabe Davis 65.8
Isaiah McKenzie 64.2

 

Edge
Jerry Hughes  71.4
Boogie Basham 66.4
AJ Epenesa  56.7

 

DT
Harrison Phillips 72.1
Ed Oliver 68.5
Tim Settle 53.8
Jordan Phillips 52.2

OL (Pass block)
Jon Feliciano 65.9
Rodger Saffold  51.0

 

Accountability folks. This organization has made critical errors in judgement when evaluating talent and spending their allocations.

 

No doubt this has contributed to the lack of playoff advancement.

 

Who has confidence they will get it right this year? Why or why not? 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

54 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Come on now stop embarrassing yourself. Your argument is feeble, weak, and unsubstantiated by last year's odds. Need I remind you of the Bills odds throughout last season? 

 

Take off that homerism hat and see what's happening to this team. It's a slow progression towards being a very good team not an elite Super Bowl team. 

 

The Bills organization is handicapped by the cap, pending contracts, and a faltering coaching staff. 

 

We fans are left with hope, promises, and luck. I'd rather rely on talent and great coaching.

 

Thus far, it's six years of an elite QB and counting. Coming up empty the last two years have been pretty demoralizing. What's gonna change this year to get the team over the hump? 

 

46 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Mostly true. Look at how the Eagles went after free agents to build around Hurts. Look how their players on both sides of the ball dominate the line of scrimmage. 

 

What did the Bills do to help out Allen? How successful have they been? Why hasn't the team advanced further?

 

These are serious questions the whole organization needs to answer and look at. There is no accountability here. Many seem satisfied with the playoff appearances. It feels like we the fans are being placated.

 

We deserve more and should have received more! This team frankly should have represented the AFC in the Super Bowl. It's a failure of Beane and the coaching staff to get it done. Now, the opportunity is slimmer because of Allen's contract and the cap issues. Missed opportunities...

 

 You sound like the Bills have finally broken your faith lol. Well it's a choice, I choose not to feel that way. You do have to be able to assemble the team in order to win it all, but at the same time you gotta have some luck along the way also. We were not lucky with injuries this year as we have been in the past.

 

 I would agree the team squandered good opportunities in 2020 & 2021. The 1st 2 years with Josh he wasn't ready to lead this team to a Super Bowl. As I already stated I agree with 2020 & 2021 and with who was injured this year going into the playoffs we weren't winning it anyways, whether we lost to the Bengals or the Chiefs is inconsequential. So I do agree that 2 of Josh's 5 years here were squandered. 

 

 But at the same time I'm not going to go around and be angry, rant, rave, whine or cry about it as many on this board have been doing for 3 weeks. It does absolutely no good to do so. After 45 years of being a Bills fan and living through 4 straight Super Bowl loses, this is child's play.

 

 I will always be  optimistic as long as we have a QB like Josh. Remember at one point Bill Belichick & Tom Brady went 10 years in between Super Bowl wins #3 & #4 going 9-8 in the playoffs during that span. I'm sure there were a ton of Pats fans screaming  that  Brady's window was closing for most of those 10 years. Then they won 3 more in the next 5 years. 

 

 I'm not going to ever see it your way and I'm sure you'll never see it mine. And that's fine, that's how it should be. Everyone has an opinion and they're not always going to align with everyone else. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one my Bills friend.

 

 

 

 

[CoudyBills]

11 hours ago, Process said:

The bills are currently second in odds to win the Superbowl next year. Way ahead of anyone else in the AFCE. And they will be heavy favorites to win the division.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

How much money you gonna put on the other teams?

Because they don't have a quarterback.  The one who doesn't know what they are talking about is you.  

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

Because they don't have a quarterback.  The one who doesn't know what they are talking about is you.  

 

 But having a an elite QB is what it's all about in the NFL. Assembling a great roster minus a top 5 or even top 10 QB does you no good. We will be the favorite again to win the division. No other team in this division was nearly good enough last year. We won the division by 4.5 games, 5 in the loss column. That's a bigger lead than any other division winner had at the end of the season.

 

 It was much harder winning the division against NE the year before. We've actually widen the gap between us and 2nd place by 3.5 games this year over last as we only won the division by 1 game in 2021. We also widen the gap with the Dolphins by 2.5 as in 2021 they only finished 2 games in back of us. The Jets marginally closed the gap going from 7 games back last year to 6.5 games back this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Victory Formation]

I realize I am outnumbered here, but in all sincerity I believe that Buffalo has the better roster.

[Process]

36 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

Because they don't have a quarterback.  The one who doesn't know what they are talking about is you.  

Wtf is your point lol? The original claim was that the Bills won't be favorites to win the division next year. The fact is they absolutely will be. And they'll be heavy favorites.

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 

 You sound like the Bills have finally broken your faith lol. Well it's a choice, I choose not to feel that way. You do have to be able to assemble the team in order to win it all, but at the same time you gotta have some luck along the way also. We were not lucky with injuries this year as we have been in the past.

 

 I would agree the team squandered good opportunities in 2020 & 2021. The 1st 2 years with Josh he wasn't ready to lead this team to a Super Bowl. As I already stated I agree with 2020 & 2021 and with who was injured this year going into the playoffs we weren't winning it anyways, whether we lost to the Bengals or the Chiefs is inconsequential. So I do agree that 2 of Josh's 5 years here were squandered. 

 

 But at the same time I'm not going to go around and be angry, rant, rave, whine or cry about it as many on this board have been doing for 3 weeks. It does absolutely no good to do so. After 45 years of being a Bills fan and living through 4 straight Super Bowl loses, this is child's play.

 

 I will always be  optimistic as long as we have a QB like Josh. Remember at one point Bill Belichick & Tom Brady went 10 years in between Super Bowl wins #3 & #4 going 9-8 in the playoffs during that span. I'm sure there were a ton of Pats fans screaming  that  Brady's window was closing for most of those 10 years. Then they won 3 more in the next 5 years. 

 

 I'm not going to ever see it your way and I'm sure you'll never see it mine. And that's fine, that's how it should be. Everyone has an opinion and they're not always going to align with everyone else. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one my Bills friend.

 

 

 

 

Great post. 

[Thurman#1]

Both lineups healthy? 

 

Bills by a significant margin. But less than would be comfortable. And less than had been true in the recent past.

[newcam2012]

21 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Both lineups healthy? 

 

Bills by a significant margin. But less than would be comfortable. And less than had been true in the recent past.

Injuries will always play a role in football. No team will go  without injuries that doesn't negatively effect games. Just not realistic. 

 

To simply look at one teams roster on paper and compare It with another just isn't going to give you a true picture. Truly is a week by week evaluation based on many factors such as injuries. That's why depth is so important. 

 

[Nephilim17]

The Jets had a great draft last year but let's seem them build our team with the same picks we had over the last few years.

 

Be a lot closer. And throwing out QB is throwing out 90% of the acumen of management.

[DapperCam]

I said Jets, but I think it is really close. If we had healthy and fully back to form Hyde, Von Miller and Tre White (and maybe Poyer) then I think I would take the Bills.

 

But a lot of question marks next season around health for us.

[SACTOBILLSFAN]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:36 AM, newcam2012 said:

The Bills might not even be favorites to win the AFC east division. Miami and the Jets have closed the gap. Might even be better. Allen is the big difference that still gives a slight edge to the Bills

You’re ***** high if you believe that. Allen is more than a slight edge. Jfc some people really are stupid. 

[John from Riverside]

Right now it is of course the Jets
 

But

 

None of that really matters whenever you have the qb

[RyanC883]

On 2/10/2023 at 9:21 AM, Bangarang said:

The Jets have had top 10 picks in 7 of the last 10 years, 4 of which were top 5 picks, and people act like having good players is impressive. 

 

well, when we draft high we get non-impact players like Oliver, Edmunds, and Rosseau. They took George Wilson and got Breece Hall.  They nailed the draft last year.   

[wppete]

Jets have built themselves a very strong roster. If they get a decent QB and a decent Head Coach they are a huge threat to win the division. 

[Unforgiven]

IMHO Jets by far. 

[SCBills]

I’m genuinely torn on this question.  
 

Best OL players are Dawkins and Morse. 
 

Best WR is Diggs. 
 

Best TE is Knox. 
 

Best RB is Hall. 
 

Best EDGE is Von. 
 

Best DT is Quinnen. 
 

Best LB is Milano. 
 

Best CB is Sauce. 
 

Best S is Hyde. 
 

Add in the supporting cast guys which are pretty equal … I don’t know… as down as I am on the Bills re: KC/CIN, I still think our team - outside QB - is more talented than the Jets. 
 

The difference is Salah actually has his defense playing at a top tier level, whereas ours, to date, shows random flaws throughout the season and then falls apart in the playoffs.   White & Elam’s play next year would start to mimic why the Jets Defense is so good, but we still don’t have a game wrecker at DT … which I’m convinced is becoming more impactful than elite EDGE rushers. 
 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by SCBills

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, SACTOBILLSFAN said:

You’re ***** high if you believe that. Allen is more than a slight edge. Jfc some people really are stupid. 

Really? Did you see the Bills play the Dolphins 3xs this year? Every game basically came down to the closing moments. More specifically, Miami fielded a 3rd string QB in playoff game in Bflo. Miami fans feel the refs made some very poor calls against them. They also talked about probably winning that game with a healthy Tua. Who knows? Their viewpoint certainly isn't outlandish. The gap between the two teams is very very narrow. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Miami wins the division. A lot depends on Tua's health.

 

The Jets are another team that's absolutely capable of challenging for the division. They played the Bills well and had toe to toe battles. A healthy Brice Hall makes that offense more dynamic. He looks to be a game changer which the Bills lack. If the Jets get a quality QB look out. 

 

Sure the Bills will be the favorite to win the division. Allen is the deciding factor and their regular season record is good. A healthy Bills team is and should be the front-runner for the division. Nevertheless, the AFC East will be a dog fight. Certainly, no lock to win the division. Sorry, I don't see that as a stupid comment.

 

Guessing Miami and Jet fans would agree. I'm guessing they will like their chances to unseat the Bills when the season starts. Why wouldn't they? The Bills are seemingly vulnerable while those teams are up and coming. It's no longer David vs Goliath.

[Bangarang]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

well, when we draft high we get non-impact players like Oliver, Edmunds, and Rosseau. They took George Wilson and got Breece Hall.  They nailed the draft last year.   

Only one of those players was taken with a top 10 pick. Did you intentionally leave that part out just so it could fit your narrative?

[Albany,n.y.]

On 2/10/2023 at 7:44 AM, Teddy KGB said:

They will get a Qb in the off-season then we die 

They'll get Rodgers and after he loses on opening day he'll go into a dark house for 4 months & never leave.  Every week Hackett will deliver his groceries to his door & beg him to come back through the ring camera & Rodgers will tell him " I need more darkness." 

 

Same Old Jets

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Albany,n.y.

[RyanC883]

On 2/11/2023 at 4:02 PM, Bangarang said:

Only one of those players was taken with a top 10 pick. Did you intentionally leave that part out just so it could fit your narrative?

 

I   My narrative?   What narrative. Please do explain.  

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I   My narrative?   What narrative. Please do explain.  

I mentioned the Jets drafting in the top 10 a lot.

 

You responded by saying that when we draft high we get non impact players and then mentioned players who majority weren’t drafted high. 
 

Not sure what was so difficult to understand about that.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Bangarang

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

31 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I mentioned the Jets drafting in the top 10 a lot.

 

You responded by saying that when we draft high we get non impact players and then mentioned players who majority weren’t drafted high. 
 

Not sure what was so difficult to understand about that.

Ed Oliver was a wasted top 10 pick. Never, ever, ever, EVER draft interior linemen in the top 10