In case anyone wondered - Kumerow had back surgery

[Beck Water]

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/back-surgery-not-ankle-injuries-responsible-for-bills-receiver-jake-kumerows-shortened-season/article_181816c8-9cdd-11ed-bc17-0f9fac7f9425.html#tncms-source=login

 

Quote

On Monday, Kumerow revealed to The Buffalo News that he recently underwent a microdiscectomy to trim a disc that was making contact with nerves in his back.

 

Quote

Kumerow battled through the back injury, and it was only during recovery for the second ankle injury that he was shut down.

“The ankle self-healed,” he said. "I was able to work on my ankle, but my back was hurting and I couldn’t get back to full speed with my ankle because my back was hurting. (The team) was, ‘All right, let’s try and get you right.’ ”

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/back-surgery-not-ankle-injuries-responsible-for-bills-receiver-jake-kumerows-shortened-season/article_181816c8-9cdd-11ed-bc17-0f9fac7f9425.html#tncms-source=login

 

 

 

 

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing. 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

The Bills staff should be very proud of the way they handle injured players.   They seemingly never push players through injuries and take the right amount of time to get them back playing in a comfortable fashion. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I had the same surgery for the same reason.

[ClemsonBills]

Herniated discs suck

[hellofellowbillsfans]

Glad we kept him instead of Hodgins! 

Edited January 27, 2023 by BillsFanInRaleigh

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I had the same surgery for the same reason.

 

So are we supposed to call you TBD Jesus now?

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

So are we supposed to call you TBD Jesus now?

 

I don't have long hair.

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing.

 

I hope not. 

 

Not because I believe that in hindsight, given a do-over, they wouldn't prefer to have kept Hodgins than to elevate Tanner Gentry for Week 11 and 12 and bring John Brown off his sofa to the practice squad.   I'm sure they would.

 

But the only point of evaluating past decisions is to see if you should have made a different decision given the information you had at the time.  And I understand the logic of the Bills player prioritization, given the information they had at the time.

 

Kicking yourself serves no purpose. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Beck Water

[Airseven]

I don't think anyone was wondering. I do hope he finds success on another team's ST unit next season.

[TheWeatherMan]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing. 

 

 

That’s okay because Aaron Rodgers really likes Kumerow and was pissed that he left.  

[John from Riverside]

I wish Kumar well wherever he ends up the bills definitely guessed wrong on the wide receiver to keep
 

And no, I don’t think it would’ve made a difference in the Bengals game. The problems were bigger than that.

[GolfandBills]

We need more special teams players.  Hope they sign more to multi million contracts 

[Rico]

2 hours ago, BillsFanInRaleigh said:

Glad we kept him instead of Hodgins! 

When in doubt, always dump the high-motor lunch-pailer. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I hope not. 

 

Not because I believe that in hindsight, given a do-over, they wouldn't prefer to have kept Hodgins than to elevate Tanner Gentry for Week 11 and 12 and bring John Brown off his sofa to the practice squad.   I'm sure they would.

 

But the only point of evaluating past decisions is to see if you should have made a different decision given the information you had at the time.  And I understand the logic of the Bills player prioritization, given the information they had at the time.

 

Kicking yourself serves no purpose. 

It was a total blunder both then and after the fact. Kumerow offered nothing on offense. They prioritized ST over offense, and it was a foolish decision. It’s also not even like they didn’t know what they had in Hodgins— when he played the few times, he looked good. 
 

I love McBeane, but they make mistakes (as everyone does). This was a mistake. 

[bigK14094]

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Who? Doesn’t ring a bell. 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing. 

 

 

One would like to think so…, 

 

 

[msw2112]

Maybe Hodgins becomes Wyatt Teller 2.0.  We'll see.  He certainly played well for the Giants this season.

[Beck Water]

57 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

It was a total blunder both then and after the fact. Kumerow offered nothing on offense. They prioritized ST over offense, and it was a foolish decision. It’s also not even like they didn’t know what they had in Hodgins— when he played the few times, he looked good. 
 

I love McBeane, but they make mistakes (as everyone does). This was a mistake. 

 

I would just like to point out ....they prioritized a starter/key contributor on ST over the #5 WR on offense, because that would have been Hodgins role here.

 

As a basis for fact, in the 2 early season games where Kumerow saw substantial snaps, he had 4 receptions on 5 targets for 64 yds + ST

In the same time window, Hodgins saw 4 receptions on 6 targets for 41 yds. 

 

That's the comparator the Bills brain trust was looking at when they released Hodgins, not "offered nothing"

 

Again, I like Hodgins, I'm sure the Bills would prefer to have kept him, but Hodgins was playing 78% of the snaps for the Giants.  He would not have been playing that many snaps for the Bills, unless you swap him out for Gabe Davis.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

It was a total blunder both then and after the fact. Kumerow offered nothing on offense. They prioritized ST over offense, and it was a foolish decision. It’s also not even like they didn’t know what they had in Hodgins— when he played the few times, he looked good. 
 

I love McBeane, but they make mistakes (as everyone does). This was a mistake. 

They prioritize EVERYTHING over offense

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I would just like to point out ....they prioritized a starter/key contributor on ST over the #5 WR on offense, because that would have been Hodgins role here.

 

As a basis for fact, in the 2 early season games where Kumerow saw substantial snaps, he had 4 receptions on 5 targets for 64 yds + ST

In the same time window, Hodgins saw 4 receptions on 6 targets for 41 yds. 

 

That's the comparator the Bills brain trust was looking at when they released Hodgins, not "offered nothing"

 

Again, I like Hodgins, I'm sure the Bills would prefer to have kept him, but Hodgins was playing 78% of the snaps for the Giants.  He would not have been playing that many snaps for the Bills, unless you swap him out for Gabe Davis.

 

I give the Bills a pass on a lot of stuff, but this one sticks in my craw. You could clearly see flashes from Hodgins. Conversely, Kumerow has been in the league 5 years and has caught like 20 passes. He is nothing more than a ST guy.
 

 The team had no depth on the outside receiver position, especially at the time they released Hodgins  after the packers game. And they decided to go ST over offense, leaving themselves thin at receiver. And then Kumerow gets injured anyway. Plus, he is a free agent and Hodgins is on a rookie deal for two more years.  
 

Just not a good decision at all. 
 

 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I give the Bills a pass on a lot of stuff, but this one sticks in my craw. You could clearly see flashes from Hodgins. Conversely, Kumerow has been in the league 5 years and has caught like 20 passes. He is nothing more than a ST guy.
 

 The team had no depth on the outside receiver position, especially at the time they released Hodgins  after the packers game. And they decided to go ST over offense, leaving themselves thin at receiver. And then Kumerow gets injured anyway. Plus, he is a free agent and Hodgins is on a rookie deal for two more years.  
 

Just not a good decision at all.

 

Normally I would walk away, understanding that we simply are looking at this from different POV and we're never going to agree. 

 

But there are some factual things here that might affect understanding other issues.

 

The minute a drafted player gets cut and placed on practice squad, his rookie deal goes away, Poof!

So Hodgins was and is NOT on the rookie deal you expect from a player drafted in 2020.

 

Now - when the Bills signed Hodgins to the active roster October 8 after Crowder broke his leg, they in fact did offer him more than the typical 1 year contract, specifically a 2 year contract (meaning 1 more year, not two more years). showing that they still liked him and wanted to keep him.  Kumerow, while a vet and earning more, has been on a VSB contract (veteral salary benefit), meaning he pretty much counts the same as Hodgins against the cap.

 

Kumerow's first 2 years in the league for GB, he caught 20 passes for 322 yds on 464 snaps (in 36-37% of the snaps).

Hodgins with the G-men caught 33 passes for 351 yds on 417 snaps (78% of the snaps)

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Normally I would walk away, understanding that we simply are looking at this from different POV and we're never going to agree. 

 

But there are some factual things here that might affect understanding other issues.

 

The minute a drafted player gets cut and placed on practice squad, his rookie deal goes away, Poof!

So Hodgins was and is NOT on the rookie deal you expect from a player drafted in 2020.

 

Now - when the Bills signed Hodgins to the active roster October 8 after Crowder broke his leg, they in fact did offer him more than the typical 1 year contract, specifically a 2 year contract (meaning 1 more year, not two more years). showing that they still liked him and wanted to keep him.  Kumerow, while a vet and earning more, has been on a VSB contract (veteral salary benefit), meaning he pretty much counts the same as Hodgins against the cap.

 

Kumerow's first 2 years in the league for GB, he caught 20 passes for 322 yds on 464 snaps (in 36-37% of the snaps).

Hodgins with the G-men caught 33 passes for 351 yds on 417 snaps (78% of the snaps)

I will say that if I had to guess, in the end, the decision maybe had little to do with what you or I are saying. It could be the case that the bills really wanted Hodgins and banked on hodgins not getting poached when they tried to PS him again, but miscalculated. 
 

I do think though that in the end, the roster decision-making reflects overemphasizing ST. 

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I hope not. 

 

Not because I believe that in hindsight, given a do-over, they wouldn't prefer to have kept Hodgins than to elevate Tanner Gentry for Week 11 and 12 and bring John Brown off his sofa to the practice squad.   I'm sure they would.

 

But the only point of evaluating past decisions is to see if you should have made a different decision given the information you had at the time.  And I understand the logic of the Bills player prioritization, given the information they had at the time.

 

Kicking yourself serves no purpose. 

I for one am glad we maximized our special team play vs the Bengals. We might have lost if the ST unit didn’t deliver.

[JaCrispy]

5 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing. 

 

 

Poor decision making is starting to pile up around there…

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I will say that if I had to guess, in the end, the decision maybe had little to do with what you or I are saying. It could be the case that the bills really wanted Hodgins and banked on hodgins not getting poached when they tried to PS him again, but miscalculated. 
 

I do think though that in the end, the roster decision-making reflects overemphasizing ST. 

 

Yeah, I Get It, and I do understand that POV.  But I can’t deny the ability of ST to swing a game (see Hines, 2nd NE game) so I can’t, myself, say that they’re wrong.

[Sharky7337]

Thanks Mrs. K for the update but no offense, we really didn't care right now.

[Xwnyer]

6 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing. 

 

 

but he was a special team player

 

[3rdand12]

22 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

If you don't mind my asking, I'm curious, about your symptoms, and outcome. 

I have a lot of Cervical spine pain that is only relieved, when I rest my head in a 'looking up at the ceiling' position.

I just had an MRI last week, for my Lumbar region. A similar situation is going on there.

Doctors will (unfortunately) treat 'one symptom at at time', which seems ridiculous to me.

You should get MRI on whole spine and neck.
and be sure you have the right doctor reading these for you.
I had to get a second opinion on my condition (s) because the 1st Dr. really glossed over the matter.
 
The Jake thing. Players like these just are not going to be game changers or significant contributors , even on Teams.
Wish him well honestly
 But from a Football business perspective ? Don't care which one they kept

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing. 

 

 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I would just like to point out ....they prioritized a starter/key contributor on ST over the #5 WR on offense, because that would have been Hodgins role here.

 

The problem is that they saw Hodgins as a #5 WR in the first place. Whereas Daboll saw Hodgins as a #3 WR.

 

So yeah, the Bills weren’t wrong for cutting a #5 WR for a ST starter. They were wrong for thinking so low of Hodgins in the first place.

[CincyBillsFan]

It's easy to dump on Kumerow and obsess over the Bills letting Hodgins get away.  Yet you can trace the Bills offensive troubles to Kumerow & Crowder going down to injury.  In fact it got so bad that in desperation the Bills brought Beasley & Brown back and they made some plays. This isn't rocket science.  The Bills faltered on Offense because the O line was bad and they didn't have much in the way of play makers beyond Diggs.

 

 

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am sure the Bills are kicking themselves for letting Hodgins walk and instead keeping Kumerow, esp since he ended up with this injury and not playing. 

 

 

 

Hodgins would have been inactive most games so probably not.

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

My follow up exam, is the 1st. week of Feb. I'm going to press the Doc on this 'one symptom at a time' stupidity.

The Lumbar exam revealed compressed discs, 'levocuravature', and spinal canal narrowing from S1, to L5. I asked for the radiology report, so I can prepare questions in advance. Sounds like it's time, to put me on a 'Rack'.

stenosis is fun !  not !  cuz you cant work that out
work on some PT that fits you and learning about gently opening up those compressions.
rack did not work for me but might for you.
so much of it becomes mental discipline

PM me if you wish
 
 

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's easy to dump on Kumerow and obsess over the Bills letting Hodgins get away.  Yet you can trace the Bills offensive troubles to Kumerow & Crowder going down to injury.  In fact it got so bad that in desperation the Bills brought Beasley & Brown back and they made some plays. This isn't rocket science.  The Bills faltered on Offense because the O line was bad and they didn't have much in the way of play makers beyond Diggs.

 

 

Like i mentioned. Hodgins and Jake were not going to be game changers

[Dr.Sack]

Kumerow is old, Hodgins was the guy to keep. ST was still good without old man Kum.

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

The problem is that they saw Hodgins as a #5 WR in the first place. Whereas Daboll saw Hodgins as a #3 WR.

 

So yeah, the Bills weren’t wrong for cutting a #5 WR for a ST starter. They were wrong for thinking so low of Hodgins in the first place.

 

OK, Einstein.  Let's put into the mix that Daboll's WR use was driven by the fact that his #1, Sterling Shepard, was on IR and their hoped-for #2, 2021 1st round pick Kadarius Toney, worked his way out of town.  That left them very thin.   So Hodgins was actually their #2 WR, getting 80% of the snaps.

 

Their "Gabe Davis" as it were.  Are you seriously trying to argue that we should have put Gabe Davis on the bench for Isaiah Hodgins?

 

Hodgins had his chance in preseason to make that case.  He didn't.

 

 

[The Wiz]

22 hours ago, ClemsonBills said:

Herniated discs suck

Sure do.  I slipped 2 about 6 years ago and ended up with nerve damage in my right shin/knee so it's always kind of dull feeling.

 

Still completely functional but haven't trusted it playing sports or any real exercising since.

[Meatloaf63]

14 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's easy to dump on Kumerow and obsess over the Bills letting Hodgins get away.  Yet you can trace the Bills offensive troubles to Kumerow & Crowder going down to injury.  In fact it got so bad that in desperation the Bills brought Beasley & Brown back and they made some plays. This isn't rocket science.  The Bills faltered on Offense because the O line was bad and they didn't have much in the way of play makers beyond Diggs.

 

 

Few people want to say it, but you can add to everything you said the fact that Allen refused to consistently use the short game to move the sticks. So many people kept saying well if the receivers would catch the long passes that were there we would have been fine. Well they consistently were not catching the long passes and the Miami game should have been a big wake a call but it wasn’t. Our only chance against Cinci was to our score out possess them, everyone should have recognized that including Allen & Dorsey. The Cinci game should have been a heavy dose of Knox, Beasly, Singletary running up the middle and Diggs on slants. Instead we kept with the long ball mentality when those other routes were consistently open. 
We need a better #2 option but if Allen doesn’t wake up and get a better understanding of what it takes to be successful in the playoffs we are never going to progress farther than this.

[Beck Water]

17 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

Thanks Mrs. K for the update but no offense, we really didn't care right now.

 

As shown by you taking the time to read this thread and post here.

Free clue: when I want to persuade someone "we really didn't care right now", I don't use my time to, well, show that I care enough to do that.