Cinci O Line injuries

[BRH]

I don't think we're going to blitz more than a handful of times, if even that.  I'd rather show blitz and then flood zones with guys dropping unexpectedly into coverage.  With a patchwork line, Burrow is likely to try early to get the ball out quickly on crossing routes.  If we can disrupt the timing of those routes, eventually Cincinnati will adjust and that's when you might send the house.  Or at least a couple of rooms.   

 

I certainly don't expect us to have the same game plan for Burrow that we had for Skyler Thompson. 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by BRH

[clayboy54]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

After watching our #1 defense get shredded with 13 seconds left, I could care less about stats & analytics. The only thing that matters to me IS the smell & eye test.  

Still living that old nightmare, are we?

[DCbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

The same was said for Miami's Oline. 

You're right about Miami.  Armstead ending up playing LT and Robert Hunt played RT.  Hunt is pretty good.  Ravens only allowed 234 yards against Bengals offense.  This should be an advantage for Bills D line.

[ALLEN1QB]

None of this matters if JA the turnover machine shows up Sunday!

[TFBillsfan]

DL has to win some one on one battles and GET to Burrow. It feels all too often the Bills front four tries to bull rush the OL and typically get slowed down. Rarely do I see them stunt or twist like other teams. I don’t know if that is more with the DL staying in their lane or not. Could be wrong and others can validate. When we blitz it typically a delayed blitz or Taron coming from the outside. Regardless, pressure combined with sacks on Burrow is a MUST!

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, BRH said:

I don't think we're going to blitz more than a handful of times, if even that.  I'd rather show blitz and then flood zones with guys dropping unexpectedly into coverage.  With a patchwork line, Burrow is likely to try early to get the ball out quickly on crossing routes.  If we can disrupt the timing of those routes, eventually Cincinnati will adjust and that's when you might send the house.  Or at least a couple of rooms.   

 

I certainly don't expect us to have the same game plan for Burrow that we had for Skyler Thompson. 

 

 

Maybe do the Marlowe intentionally where he drops into an area that doesn't make sense based on what the Bills have shown previously?  I mean he made a mistake and got a pick, so why not?  😂

[Matt_In_NH]

As much as I want this to be a good thing, the track record seems to be the opponent OL is weak/hurting but gets the job done anyway.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, larrym said:

its true our pass rush is ineffective.  Watching the 49ers d its plain to see our defense needs an overhaul.  I myself am pretty calm too.  I'm not confident we can win this game and this is just be objective.  This team all year is like an engine with a misfire or dead cylinder.  In some ways not making the superbowl might be a blessing because i think whoever emerges from the AFC probably will get steamrolled.

 

You might want to suggest we draft DL in the first, and CB in the second round of the next draft. That could lead to some fine entertainment!   😋

[CSBill]

1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said:

That fact that Burrow gets the ball out as fast as anyone and our front 4 is so inconsistent getting home I kinda feel it won't be that big a deal for them. Frazier needs to have our DBs  bump and disrupt the routes at the line and throw off their timing patterns which we hope will make Burrow take more time to find an open guy. Hopefully then our front can take advantage of their OL injuries.

 

Of course it's JMHO.....

I think the place it will more effect them is in the run game. We should be able to limit that pretty well. 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, CSBill said:

I think the place it will more effect them is in the run game. We should be able to limit that pretty well. 

 

They never have been a good running team even when all 5 were healthy.  People have this notion because they have Joe Mixon they are some rushing powerhouse.  They aren't.  They are average to below average rushing the football.

[CSBill]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

They never have been a good running team even when all 5 were healthy.  People have this notion because they have Joe Mixon they are some rushing powerhouse.  They aren't.  They are average to below average rushing the football.

I was going to add, “not that they are that good to begin with.” I think they will be very one dimensional on Sunday. Which I believe helps the Bills. I think, I hope. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

With 3 back ups on the offensive line, I would hope Frazier/McDermott will devise a game plan that will create some confusion among players that aren't very familiar playing as a group.  And speed up the clock in Burrow's mind with real pressure or affecting his pre-snap reads.  Some equivalency of Pittsburg's zone blitz scheme where a free rusher could be coming from anywhere.  But I might be asking too much. 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, CSBill said:

I was going to add, “not that they are that good to begin with.” I think they will be very one dimensional on Sunday. Which I believe helps the Bills. I think, I hope. 

 

I think what will help the Bills most is that they can run a bunch of games, zone blitzes, etc to confuse the OLine protection schemes in a loud environment where they can't talk to each other and the Bills can get some quick pressures off that type of stuff. Continuity is huge on the OLine, especially when you can't hear or communicate with the player next to you in regards to blocking assignments. With the same 5 guys all year you already have all that down because you've seen everything there is to see and worked through it over the course of a season.  With 3 new guys in there and having to use silent counts and having no ability to communicate, that is going to make things really difficult in that regard.  

 

If anything, the Bengals may try to run the ball more to lessen the pressure they face.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Big Turk

[BRH]

50 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Just had this conversation today - it was about Bosa getting held and whether or not their is a conscious effort to let Oline get away with a bit more holding then normal. 
 

I don’t really care - so long as it’s both ways.  

 

Same here.  We should be given the same ability to protect Josh and I think we will be.  And hopefully if anyone throws his helmet in frustration, they wait until they get to the sideline. 

[Rockinon]

They are going to go with a quick strike passing game. In the first matchup, the DEs were taking a very wide route to the QB.  I'd like to see our ends take some inside moves in this game. The Bills rarely send a blitz, but when they do, it's always a surprise, a trend that I like very much. Some stunts by the big guys up front is in order too. That inexperienced line won't know how to handle that. Gotta find a way to rattle Burrows.

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

the smell & eye test.  

Also known as the "my anecdotal opinion is" test

[Luka]

Our front 7 (or 6) aren't comparable to the Ravnes in it's current state with no Von, no Phillips. It's going to take a real game plan to stifle Burrow and not get gashed for big runs. Oliver is so explosive, I would like to see him move around this game. Create mismatches in the middle, send him on stunts. Too often he's just left to bull rush a double team. That's where we miss Von most, Ed was eating early in the season as teams tried to protect against Von.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Think about it like this:

 

If our OL we’re facing similar injury challenges, the lineup would be…

 

Hart - Saffold - Morse - Botteger - Quess

 

Idc who their back ups are, the people saying that it doesn’t matter much are just wrong. It makes a tremendous difference. Not only in the run game, but also calling protections, line calls, or how pairs of guys pick up stunts, pressures, work with TEs or RBs in pass pro. 
 

Just ignoring the potential implications because there aren’t any (healthy) super star pass rushers on the DL is a lazy critique looking to complain. 

 

I can guarantee the board would be all over how much of a liability it’d be to be down 3 starting OL…and that’s considering the talent level of the players we’d be losing vs there’s isn’t as substantial for us. 
 

You might not see the outcome in a measurable means, but it will undoubtedly be a factor in many facets of the game IMO

Edited January 17, 2023 by EmotionallyUnstable

[TH3]

45 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

As much as I want this to be a good thing, the track record seems to be the opponent OL is weak/hurting but gets the job done anyway.

When? During all the big losses so far this year?

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Any status on Jordan Phillips? as be great to have him back. 

Not until tomorrow but I wouldn’t expect anything. He looked like he was playing with one arm a couple weeks ago. 

[TH3]

3 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Think about it like this:

 

If our OL we’re facing similar injury challenges, the lineup would be…

 

Hart - Saffold - Morse - Botteger - Quess

 

Idc who their back ups are, the people saying that it doesn’t matter much are just wrong. It makes a tremendous difference. Not only in the run game, but also calling protections, line calls, or how pairs of guys pick up stunts, pressures, work with TEs or RBs in pass pro. 
 

Just ignoring the potential implications because there aren’t any (healthy) super star pass rushers on the DL is a lazy critique looking to complain. 

 

I can guarantee the board would be all over how much of a liability it’d be to be down 3 starting OL…and that’s considering the talent level of the players we’d be losing vs there’s isn’t as substantial for us. 
 

You might not see the outcome in a measurable means, but it will undoubtedly be a factor in many facets of the game IMO

Can’t you read? Our Dline sucks and Cinci could shuffle the Moeller High dudes out and Oliver and Rousseau won’t sniff Joe Cool!

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, TH3 said:

When? During all the big losses so far this year?

last week.  Did you see the dolphins online situation and watch the game?   They had to blitz to get any preasure

[TH3]

30 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

last week.  Did you see the dolphins online situation and watch the game?   They had to blitz to get any preasure

Yes …I saw a D that limited the opponent to 2.3 yards per play, 190 passing, 40 yards rushing, chased ST all day sacking him 4 times, picking him off….Yes…you blitz to get pressure….Bills have a D scheme that does that in specific situations and it has worked successfully for years…but pretty sure your smell test is the way to go

[CEN-CAL17]

Would love to see Big Ed bull rush from the edge a few times! Especially if they think they can run 

[JoshAllin]

Hopefully Von is there coaching up the line

[Jerome007]

 A HEALTHY Jordan Philipps has been a force this year. But this has been just a few games. Hopefully he plays Sunday but he has to be back to form too.

 

I too was a bit shocked that the Bills DLine couldn't overmatch the Dolphins backups. Stunts, occasional blitz, whatever it takes!

[Brand J]

Andrew Russell

@Andrew_Russell7

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With Von Miller, the Bills ranked 4th in the NFL in pressure rate (34.4%) with 4 or less pass rushers. Since his injury, the Bills are 27th in the NFL in pressure rate (25.4%) with 4 or less pass rushers.

11:11 AM · Jan 17, 2023

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For those (few) who say Von hasn't been missed. 

[Matt_In_NH]

15 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Yes …I saw a D that limited the opponent to 2.3 yards per play, 190 passing, 40 yards rushing, chased ST all day sacking him 4 times, picking him off….Yes…you blitz to get pressure….Bills have a D scheme that does that in specific situations and it has worked successfully for years…but pretty sure your smell test is the way to go

The defense did great overall but pressure had to be manufactured.  I did not mean to say the they had a bad game overall.   There have been games that pressure from the front 4 is not there.  That is what you need against Burrow and Mahomes.  We are not playing Mike White and Skylar Thompson anymore.

[That's No Moon]

Can we activate Kingsley Johnathan? Even it's it's only obvious passing situations. The dude has juice off the edge that Lawson and Epenesa don't.

[Billever76]

3 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Im with the others as infuriating as it is with all the draft capital and FA money spent on the Dline, without Von we don't have anyone to really exploit weaknesses.  Dolphind had a 3rd string Qb in and we almost lost 

I think you are looking at the score and not the stat sheet....offense gave Miami their points...the defense did exceptionally well at limiting what Miami was able to do with turnovers

[Rigotz]

4 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

One sack isn’t going to do anything. 

 

I think it's important to note that the O-Line does more than just pass block.

If they can't get any push in their run game and are generally disjointed, that will affect their passing game as well.

 

This absolutely will have a big impact on the game.

[Billever76]

13 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The defense did great overall but pressure had to be manufactured.  I did not mean to say the they had a bad game overall.   There have been games that pressure from the front 4 is not there.  That is what you need against Burrow and Mahomes.  We are not playing Mike White and Skylar Thompson anymore.

Show me a team that has pressure from just the front 4 in every game? Newsflash there isn't one

Just now, Rigotz said:

 

I think it's important to note that the O-Line does more than just pass block.

If they can't get any push in their run game and are generally disjointed, that will affect their passing game as well.

 

This absolutely will have a big impact on the game.

Not to mention hurries and just pressure....sacks are nice but they only tell a small part of dline success...I'd take a hurried throw under pressure that results in an int over a sack any day

[Matt_In_NH]

1 minute ago, Billever76 said:

Show me a team that has pressure from just the front 4 in every game? Newsflash there isn't one

Not to mention hurries and just pressure....sacks are nice but they only tell a small part of dline success...I'd take a hurried throw under pressure that results in an int over a sack any day

Thanks for the news flash can I catch you on WIVB?  Not having Miller is felt.  Jordan Phillips likely has a labrum injury and won’t be able to be what he could be if healthy.  I don’t think the bills d li lane sucks and I am not being a Nelly but I think pressure from the front 4 will be critical this week.  You probably cannot blitz burrow like you could Thompson.  

[Billever76]

3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Thanks for the news flash can I catch you on WIVB?  Not having Miller is felt.  Jordan Phillips likely has a labrum injury and won’t be able to be what he could be if healthy.  I don’t think the bills d li lane sucks and I am not being a Nelly but I think pressure from the front 4 will be critical this week.  You probably cannot blitz burrow like you could Thompson.  

Ravens blitzed him a ton...we can't play soft nickle though....we would have to disguise things and jam wrs off the line

Edited January 18, 2023 by Billever76

[Xwnyer]

5 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

Or maybe 4/5.  Hard to keep track. 

 

Well, we'll see if my theory that injuries matter and "next man up" is largely garbage (ie: backups are way worse than starters in today's NFL, esp on the OLine).  

 

Although they went to the SB with a crap O Line last year, this wave of injuries is big and should make a difference in the game,  Hope Frazier has some stuff ready to go . 

We didn’t dominate the decimated Miami OL why you think this will be different 

[Drew21PA]

5 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

I don’t see this as much of a negative for Cincinnati.  Our pass rush isn’t good at all. 

I love the generalization comments like this…🤣

We gonna get big 97 back this week?  He’s a monster when he’s in there.  Run stuff and soaking up guys up front 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

That sucks, I want to beat these guys fair and square. Not sure why many are afraid of this game, these are the games that put you on another level like the Chiefs, to be the best you have to beat the best and no doubt were going to slay the kitty cats this weekend, no doubts whatsoever.

[bobobonators]

Where it might hurt them as wall is false starts. 

[IndyMark]

1 hour ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Would love to see Big Ed bull rush from the edge a few times! Especially if they think they can run 

 

Please no.

 

First, Ed is actually quite small for a DT.  In fact, during one of DaQuan Jones' first observation on becoming a Bill he expressed he was surprised how small Ed was.  Not sure why anyone would put "Big" as a descriptor for Ed?  Explosive, sure.  Big, nope.

 

Second, he does not have the frame or length to do anything of impact from the Edge.  He actually does better bull rushing against a double team because he is fast and small so he can split the two OL.  If he bull rushed 1 : 1 he would get planted on his back all day.  This is Physics 101.

 

Ed is likely about 25 pounds lighter than the average DT and about 3 inches shorter than the typical Edge along with his arm length being below average. 

 

Again, I want Ed to do well but we need to set realistic expectations.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

With our corners 10 yards off the LOS….

this is why we drafted Elam