SoMAn Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) Not sure if this has been brought up since yesterdays win. One of the stranger circumstances that can occur in a game is a player carrying the ball (Singletary)but not wanting to go into the end zone, even though it’s right there. At the same time the opposition wants him to score. The Ravens know the best odds of getting the ball back for their offense is to let him score so there will be time left to march upfield. So here’s my question: As Singletary is trying to stop at the one yard line and go down to give himself up, hypothetically, could the Ravens’ defenders have forced a TD by holding him upright and carrying him into the end zone against his will? Anyone know what the rule book says about that? Edited October 3, 2022 by SoMAn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Just now, SoMAn said: Not sure if this has been brought up since yesterdays win. One of the stranger circumstances that can occur in a game is a player carrying the ball (Singletary)but not wanting to go into the end zone, even though it’s right there. At the same time the opposition wants him to score. The Ravens know the best odds of getting the ball back for their offense is to let him score so there will be time left to match upfield. So here’s my question: As Singletary is trying to stop at the one yard line and go down to give himself up, hypothetically, could the Ravens’ defenders have forced a TD by holding him upright and carrying him into the end zone against his will? Anyone know what the rule book says about that? Absolutely. It's happened before. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 If the Ball would have crossed the Goal Line (without being down it was a TD). That is why he started to curl at like the 3 so he didnt get pulled in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 A player can "give himself up" on the field; he doesn't have to be tackled. I can't imagine the league would allow defenders to carry a player into the end zone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Motorin' said: Absolutely. It's happened before. Really? Can you cite where/when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) Raven's fans still think that he was going to go in for the touchdown. It was then big that Allen got the 1st down without scoring also which ensured that there'd be no time left on the clock. The Bills did everything right the last 2 mins Edited October 3, 2022 by Billsfan1972 2 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, eball said: A player can "give himself up" on the field; he doesn't have to be tackled. I can't imagine the league would allow defenders to carry a player into the end zone. Well if he gave himself up on the ground the minute he was touched he would be ruled down. But if he was still UP, there is nothing saying that he couldnt be pulled in, that is why he started his turtling away from the endzone 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Just now, RoyBatty is alive said: Really? Can you cite where/when? Seen the player pushed over the goal line. Singletary made sure that couldn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said: The Bills did everything right the last 2 mins Yeah, but if they only had a better coach... 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsker4life Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Ravens fans are still mad at the defender who “made the tackle”, but I think it’s pretty obvious Motor was going down on his own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Really? Can you cite where/when? I'm pretty sure I remember New England doing this years ago. The Browns did it last year: https://thecomeback.com/nfl/browns-defenders-push-austin-ekeler-into-the-end-zone-to-get-the-ball-back.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Hsker4life said: Ravens fans are still mad at the defender who “made the tackle”, but I think it’s pretty obvious Motor was going down on his own. McD even told Singletary NOT to score before the play, then Josh came off said I want to sneak for the first but NOT Score. They knew exactly what to do in that series. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, eball said: Yeah, but if they only had a better coach... Shall I say they did everything wrong last week? I've already acknowledged and congratulated them Captain Obvious. Edited October 3, 2022 by Billsfan1972 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Ravens fans still think that he was going to go in for the touchdown. It was then big that Allen got the 1st down without scoring also which insured sure that there'd be no time left on the clock. The Bills did everything right the last 2 mins This was an underrated great play in the sequence - for Josh to know exactly where to go to get the first and not score, and then to actually execute it with such a small margin for error and bodies everywhere - just a great play Edited October 3, 2022 by stevewin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 11 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Really? Can you cite where/when? 2 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Yes they can as long as he isnt down at any point and the momentum keeps moving so the whistle doesnt blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, SoMAn said: Not sure if this has been brought up since yesterdays win. One of the stranger circumstances that can occur in a game is a player carrying the ball (Singletary)but not wanting to go into the end zone, even though it’s right there. At the same time the opposition wants him to score. The Ravens know the best odds of getting the ball back for their offense is to let him score so there will be time left to march upfield. So here’s my question: As Singletary is trying to stop at the one yard line and go down to give himself up, hypothetically, could the Ravens’ defenders have forced a TD by holding him upright and carrying him into the end zone against his will? Anyone know what the rule book says about that? have you ever seen a guy get tackled from behind and get a few more yards? Same thing. The officials don't interview the defender and ask them if they wanted the guy to get more yards or not and if they did, it would not be relevant....forward progress is forward progress. Edited October 3, 2022 by Matt_In_NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoMAn Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said: have you ever seen a guy get tackled from behind and get a few more yards? Same thing. The officials don't interview the defender and ask them if they wanted the guy to get more yards or not and if they did, it would not be relevant....forward progress is forward progress. I believe the question was answered with the video that Einstein posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 36 minutes ago, eball said: A player can "give himself up" on the field; he doesn't have to be tackled. I can't imagine the league would allow defenders to carry a player into the end zone. It’s absolutely legal Singletary has to fall on the ground to give himself up and then the play will be over It would be illegal to carry a downed player in the end zone… But just as offense can push the pile forward Technically the defense can to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 anyone have a video of the singletary play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ta111 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 41 minutes ago, eball said: A player can "give himself up" on the field; he doesn't have to be tackled. I can't imagine the league would allow defenders to carry a player into the end zone. Once he goes down and gives himself up he can’t be pushed in. But if he is still upright and moving he can be pushed or pulled in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 46 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Well if he gave himself up on the ground the minute he was touched he would be ruled down. In this case, he wouldn't even need to be touched for the play to end. Just take a knee, and by doing so, he gives himself up. The whistle is blown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 I believe once defenders have control of the ball-carrier (so that he can't advance?), the play is whistled dead. So I believe Singletary could theoretically lift his feet off the ground (w/ no self imposed forward momentum) & the play should end. As I'm not sure about the specifics of the rule & given the interpretation (& necessary prompt whistle), I'm not optimistic that it would work & therefore isn't a prudent strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: Very obvious at the 7-8 second mark Singletary went down on his own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, eSJayDee said: I believe once defenders have control of the ball-carrier (so that he can't advance?), the play is whistled dead. So I believe Singletary could theoretically lift his feet off the ground (w/ no self imposed forward momentum) & the play should end. As I'm not sure about the specifics of the rule & given the interpretation (& necessary prompt whistle), I'm not optimistic that it would work & therefore isn't a prudent strategy. The problem is then you're having to make a subjective determination to override a commonly accepted precedent otherwise. This is a solution in search of a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 If he's upright, they can push him forward. If he's down on the ground, as soon as they touch him he's down. The point being go down well short of the goal line, unlike what Ekeler did. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, eball said: A player can "give himself up" on the field; he doesn't have to be tackled. I can't imagine the league would allow defenders to carry a player into the end zone. Once on the ground, if touched, he's down. You can't carry him. You can only carry him if he stays upright. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behindenemylines Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said: Raven's fans still think that he was going to go in for the touchdown. It was then big that Allen got the 1st down without scoring also which ensured that there'd be no time left on the clock. The Bills did everything right the last 2 mins How often in the last decade have we said that?😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said: How often in the last decade have we said that?😀 When they blow out teams the last two minutes are inconsequential, but of late the Bills have not been very good. Credit where credit is due, "The best prepared Coach in the NFL" (just for you Teef😝) made the right calls (heck even had his timeouts).......😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Einstein said: Somewhere, someone lost a fantasy game or prop bet because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said: Seen the player pushed over the goal line. Singletary made sure that couldn't happen. As long as he wasn't down, i.e. knee/elbow to the ground. If his knee is on the ground and then touched, he is down by contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stonada Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 4 hours ago, stevewin said: This was an underrated great play in the sequence - for Josh to know exactly where to go to get the first and not score, and then to actually execute it with such a small margin for error and bodies everywhere - just a great play I wish we could run this sneak on regular 3rd and 4th and 1s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: Raven's fans still think that he was going to go in for the touchdown. It was then big that Allen got the 1st down without scoring also which ensured that there'd be no time left on the clock. The Bills did everything right the last 2 mins Including running the football effectively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 4 hours ago, SoMAn said: Not sure if this has been brought up since yesterdays win. One of the stranger circumstances that can occur in a game is a player carrying the ball (Singletary)but not wanting to go into the end zone, even though it’s right there. At the same time the opposition wants him to score. The Ravens know the best odds of getting the ball back for their offense is to let him score so there will be time left to march upfield. So here’s my question: As Singletary is trying to stop at the one yard line and go down to give himself up, hypothetically, could the Ravens’ defenders have forced a TD by holding him upright and carrying him into the end zone against his will? Anyone know what the rule book says about that? They can push him in…but if it’s obvious they could get a 15 yr penalty for it. that happened at s Pats at Bills game the bills won like 31-30 on a game winning kick as clock expired. The defense tried to pull the RB into the end zone. Got penalized. It reset the downs and the hills just did kneels then kicked to win. 3 hours ago, eSJayDee said: I believe once defenders have control of the ball-carrier (so that he can't advance?), the play is whistled dead. So I believe Singletary could theoretically lift his feet off the ground (w/ no self imposed forward momentum) & the play should end. As I'm not sure about the specifics of the rule & given the interpretation (& necessary prompt whistle), I'm not optimistic that it would work & therefore isn't a prudent strategy. it falls under unsportsmanlike conduct. Push/ pull a player in or lifting and carrying them in would be called. since it’s under 2 minutes other rules apply that could give buffalo the option of not allowing the TD because it’s known buffalo wants to win and burn the clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 5 hours ago, SoMAn said: Not sure if this has been brought up since yesterdays win. One of the stranger circumstances that can occur in a game is a player carrying the ball (Singletary)but not wanting to go into the end zone, even though it’s right there. At the same time the opposition wants him to score. The Ravens know the best odds of getting the ball back for their offense is to let him score so there will be time left to march upfield. So here’s my question: As Singletary is trying to stop at the one yard line and go down to give himself up, hypothetically, could the Ravens’ defenders have forced a TD by holding him upright and carrying him into the end zone against his will? Anyone know what the rule book says about that? yes it has been done in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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