‘It’s Over!‘: LeSean McCoy Rips Patriots Head Coach

[clayboy54]

2 hours ago, without a drought said:

Sorry, but I am 102 and I don't remember him.

Are all your arrangements in order?

[Nuncha]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

...ish. Thurman still ran roughshod on him in that one, Kelly did enough to get them to a game winning FG attempt, and the bigger story from that game was our D not being able to tackle on 3rd & long, extending drive after Giant drive to a backup QB Hostetler filling in for Phil Simms. 

True.  But his defense frustrated Kelly who was unstoppable up until that point.  Had Buffalo decided to run the ball sooner, the outcome would have been different.  The Giants D allowed a league low 211 points that season (13.19 PPG).  Buffalo's O lead the league with 428 points (26.75 PPG).  Our offense scored 17 points in that super bowl.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Azucho98

[PrimeTime101]

18 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I'll just be a little more clear on what I agree with from the article.  I think that Belichick is a good coach.  In fact, I think he is a great coach.  I just dont think he is necessarily the goat.  There is more to his coaching career than just Brady being good. Cheating is always going to hang on him because I dont care what people think, spygate was real.  I dont really care about the deflate gate stuff though.  The guy is always trying to look for loopholes in the rules to exploit.  He keeps books on referrees and teaches his guys what penalties they can get away with and can't.  Some might say that one is just good coaching but I think its skirting the cheating line.  I wont argue that, just my opinion.  Other things helped propell those superbowl wins such as having great offensive coaching and being able to get star players on low level contracts wanting to get rings.  As well as Brady always playing under market value so he can spend cap elsewhere.

 

In any case what I agree with is that his time is done. Mac Jones is not a good QB.  The team around him is not good either. I can't see that team regardless of coaching do what they did last season.  One because the book is out on Jones.  Two because the stars likely wont align this season and have all the tough teams play with their stars on the sidelines. Three because I think his coaching staff is a clown show and arent good enough to run an offense like McDaniels was.  Four because the team over all is aged or just not good.  Sure, they probably win some games but not close to last season. Also, I think we are getting to "the game has passed him by" territory.  Maybe not necessarily but his best bet on the team is run and stop the run.  He dont have the team to do that either.  Lastly, because I don't think Kraft is going to put up with losing like that.  Its obvious Belichick is a terrible GM.  Before the season started I put in the hot takes thread... The Pats are last in the division and Belichick is "fired."  It'll probably look more like retirement out of respect.

 

Unless Kraft is going to let him go another year assuming Belichick is going to draft the top QB prospect next draft and build around it, I just don't see Belichick staying on in a losing situation.  That team is a mess.  You can only coach your way around scrubs and aging vets so much.  Even if he is the best of all time.

Bolded I believe Bill is a great game planner and that is what makes one part of him good. That being said, Bill has a huge part of why they are in the predicament they are on now. FA decisions, Draft decisions that he has a huge part in. so in part.. he is really good.. but behind the scenes decisions, he struggles. HE IS why this team is this bad. Is he a good game day/ game planning coach? yes... outside that, I struggle saying is is anything more then good. Brady made him great. period.

[msw2112]

4 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

He stopped the 1990 Bills offense in the super bowl, and of course Tom Brady didn't help him do that.  He's a great defense coach.  Without a strong O coordinator and QB he looks very average.

 

I was thinking the same thing.  I do think he's one of the greatest defensive minds of all time and he's a good head coach, but maybe not as great as his reputation.  This also goes to show how great Brady is, love him or not.  The fact that he could go to Tampa at age 42 (or whatever age he was at the time) and win a Super Bowl, then last year lead the NFL in yards and TDs at age 44 or 45 is pretty amazing.  The success in New England with Brady was not an accident.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I'll just be a little more clear on what I agree with from the article.  I think that Belichick is a good coach.  In fact, I think he is a great coach.  I just dont think he is necessarily the goat.  There is more to his coaching career than just Brady being good. Cheating is always going to hang on him because I dont care what people think, spygate was real.  I dont really care about the deflate gate stuff though.  The guy is always trying to look for loopholes in the rules to exploit.  He keeps books on referrees and teaches his guys what penalties they can get away with and can't.  Some might say that one is just good coaching but I think its skirting the cheating line.  I wont argue that, just my opinion.  Other things helped propell those superbowl wins such as having great offensive coaching and being able to get star players on low level contracts wanting to get rings.  As well as Brady always playing under market value so he can spend cap elsewhere.

 

In any case what I agree with is that his time is done. Mac Jones is not a good QB.  The team around him is not good either. I can't see that team regardless of coaching do what they did last season.  One because the book is out on Jones.  Two because the stars likely wont align this season and have all the tough teams play with their stars on the sidelines. Three because I think his coaching staff is a clown show and arent good enough to run an offense like McDaniels was.  Four because the team over all is aged or just not good.  Sure, they probably win some games but not close to last season. Also, I think we are getting to "the game has passed him by" territory.  Maybe not necessarily but his best bet on the team is run and stop the run.  He dont have the team to do that either.  Lastly, because I don't think Kraft is going to put up with losing like that.  Its obvious Belichick is a terrible GM.  Before the season started I put in the hot takes thread... The Pats are last in the division and Belichick is "fired."  It'll probably look more like retirement out of respect.

 

Unless Kraft is going to let him go another year assuming Belichick is going to draft the top QB prospect next draft and build around it, I just don't see Belichick staying on in a losing situation.  That team is a mess.  You can only coach your way around scrubs and aging vets so much.  Even if he is the best of all time.

 

He is done. I agree with that much. 

[ArtVandalay]

So first the first 10 years of Bradys career, people hated on him calling him a system QB. Now that he's gone and Patriots are back to normal he's recognized as the greatest. 

 

Still an incredible feat for the Patriots to make the playoffs with noodle arm McCorkle last year and almost steal the division from us.  The difference between us and the Pats was 1 win last year,  that's crazy. 

 

They are both amazing, no matter how much you hate them.  

 

It's fun watching the Patriots crumble but it took 20 years and Belichick is 70 years old and past his prime.  He really F'd up with his offensive plan post-McDaniels.

 

 

[Billschinatown]

1 minute ago, ArtVandalay said:

So first the first 10 years of Bradys career, people hated on him calling him a system QB. Now that he's gone and Patriots are back to normal he's recognized as the greatest. 

 

Still an incredible feat for the Patriots to make the playoffs with noodle arm McCorkle last year and almost steal the division from us.  The difference between us and the Pats was 1 win last year,  that's crazy. 

 

They are both amazing, no matter how much you hate them.  

 

It's fun watching the Patriots crumble but it took 20 years and Belichick is 70 years old and past his prime.  He really F'd up with his offensive plan post-McDaniels.

 

 

How many championships does Doug Marrone get with Brady? Probably 3-4.

[ArtVandalay]

1 minute ago, Billschinatown said:

How many championships does Doug Marrone get with Brady? Probably 3-4.

Lmao not a chance. 

[May Day 10]

I wont do a dance that Belichick is done until he is done.

 

That team over-achieved in both seasons post-Brady and came close to knocking the Bills off the top of the Division last year.  It wouldnt shock me if they bumbled their way to a 10-7 record this season.  

 

With that said, there are a lot of signs that the Patriots are heading toward darker days that will probably result in Belichick leaving.  The QB looks very limited.  Belichick (who was always ahead of the curve) seems to have regressed several decades.  Strange personnel moves like their 1st round pick this spring.  Continuing to allow difference makers to exit.. without Brady to cover the difference.  Not to mention a probably near and mid-term SB contender in their division.  

 

 

As far as legacy... I dont think you can deny Belichick will go down on the Mt Rushmore of 4-ish coaches.  Whatever Brady does will diminish over time.  If belichick went on to win the AFC with Cam Newton or something, he would probably be regarded as the best of all time.  Post-Brady will knock him down slightly, but not much over time

Edited September 16, 2022 by May Day 10

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

BB legacy can be argued by anyone who wants to.

All I care about is how his team plays this year.

It's about the present and future, not the past for me.

That’s because you’re a Bills fan. If you’re a Patriots* fan, it’s all about the past. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

Strange personnel moves like their 1st round pick this spring.  

 

See what you did there!

[ArtVandalay]

Also let's not leave it out of the question that perhaps Belichick is purposely tanking this year. 

 

I refuse to believe, even though he's 70, that he's so senile and negligent that he would actually think Patricia and Judge could coach offense and be successful. 

 

I think they are tanking to get a top QB. Word is BB didn't want to draft a QB that draft and Kraft forced it. 

 

Blow for Bryce is underway. 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

Bill Belichick is universally respected by other coaches, former players, etc.

 

I would not say universally.  A number of ex-players and ex-coaches have talked about the GOAT Cheater and how it disrespects game.  He does have some active fanboys though desiring some short ones as souvienirs.

[Punching Bag]

24 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I wont do a dance that Belichick is done until he is done.

 

He seems type who will either die in office (half way through game would be appropriate) or shortly after retiring/

 

Die! Die! Die!

 

 

Even the dice are rigged.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I don't know whose fault it is in that organization, but they draft like its 1978. 

 

Actually, they draft like another team that has been using a franchise QB as a life preserver - the Packers, who spend every draft piling up defensive lineman and corners. 

 

They have no speed on offense, not one up and coming playmaker, average running backs.  

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

I would not say universally.  A number of ex-players and ex-coaches have talked about the GOAT Cheater and how it disrespects game.  He does have some active fanboys though desiring some short ones as souvienirs.

Yes. The cheating scandals are definitely an issue. Nobody is going to forget those any time soon. Belichick has always been at the forefront of bending and breaking the rules. Some rules have been changed because of his shenanigans.

[wppete]

LeSean is not wrong. 

[Buffalo716]

It literally takes two to tango

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

True.  But his defense frustrated Kelly who was unstoppable up until that point.  Had Buffalo decided to run the ball sooner, the outcome would have been different.  The Giants D allowed a league low 211 points that season (13.19 PPG).  Buffalo's O lead the league with 428 points (26.75 PPG).  Our offense scored 17 points in that super bowl.

 

our offense was also likely hung over and poorly called game plan. 

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

True.  But his defense frustrated Kelly who was unstoppable up until that point.  Had Buffalo decided to run the ball sooner, the outcome would have been different.  The Giants D allowed a league low 211 points that season (13.19 PPG).  Buffalo's O lead the league with 428 points (26.75 PPG).  Our offense scored 17 points in that super bowl.

 

Yes and it was not just the offense not did not "call correct plays" but even at that time his defense skirted rules lying on top of players to slow down hurry up offenses.  There were interviews on this game a number of years after it from some of the defense players.

[Doc]

He's right.  Belicheat will be gone after the season.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Also let's not leave it out of the question that perhaps Belichick is purposely tanking this year. 

 

I refuse to believe, even though he's 70, that he's so senile and negligent that he would actually think Patricia and Judge could coach offense and be successful. 

 

I think they are tanking to get a top QB. Word is BB didn't want to draft a QB that draft and Kraft forced it. 

 

Blow for Bryce is underway. 

 

 

 

Yeah, if that's true it just shows that his plan last year failed.  He spent a ton in FA and did draft a QB (I don't believe the Kraft thing at all).

Now he decides to throw in the towel?  His OC's and the tank are now approved by Kraft?

If he is seen tanking, he will lose the locker room, next year's FAs and the fans.  He will have to start from scratch.

 

He's a great coach but as a GM he let the team slip away from him.  It's as simple as that. 

[Success]

Belichick should not be their GM. I think he's still a decent coach - but he's doing good work for the Bills and the rest of the division with his failed drafts and overrated FA acquisitions.

 

Underrated activity:  perusing Pats message boards to see all of the fans under 30 truly not know how to handle a team that isn't on top all the time.  And the old guys saying, "this is how it used to be...get used to it."

 

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Yeah, if that's true it just shows that his plan last year failed.  He spent a ton in FA and did draft a QB (I don't believe the Kraft thing at all).

Now he decides to throw in the towel?  His OC's and the tank are now approved by Kraft?

If he is seen tanking, he will lose the locker room, next year's FAs and the fans.  He will have to start from scratch.

 

He's a great coach but as a GM he let the team slip away from him.  It's as simple as that. 

 

I do believe Kraft forced a QB pick but regardless of that Bill wanted to win last year. That is why he overpaid in FA. I actually think he was willing to run it back with Cam. Kraft's intervention probably improved things if anything. 

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do believe Kraft forced a QB pick but regardless of that Bill wanted to win last year. That is why he overpaid in FA. I actually think he was willing to run it back with Cam. Kraft's intervention probably improved things if anything. 

 

LOL.  If that was his plan, he's worse at GM work than I thought.

[BuffaloBills1998]

update on Jones injury

[Rocky Landing]

*

[Chicken Boo]

21 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Brady won the Super Bowl on an entirely different team the very year after he left the Patriots!

 

I'll preface by saying everyone knows how good Brady is, but that Tampa team was LOADED on both sides of the ball.  

 

Jameis had just come off of a 5,000 yard season with the same squad, minus Gronk, Fournette and Antonio Brown.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Chicken Boo]

7 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Yeah, if that's true it just shows that his plan last year failed.  He spent a ton in FA and did draft a QB (I don't believe the Kraft thing at all).

Now he decides to throw in the towel?  His OC's and the tank are now approved by Kraft?

If he is seen tanking, he will lose the locker room, next year's FAs and the fans.  He will have to start from scratch.

 

He's a great coach but as a GM he let the team slip away from him.  It's as simple as that. 

 

Bill and the Pats might be in a far better situation had he been allowed to trade Brady like he wanted to went with Garopollo instead. 

 

That would have been a good bit of draft capital.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

13 hours ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

Chris Berman used to always call Fontes "Rasputin" because he or his teams would come back from the dead. After starting the season average, he kept making the playoffs with late season surges (just to get beaten in the first round of the playoffs). In one of the first Bills SB years he beat the Bills backups (primary starters all were held out since we had the #1 seed wrapped up) in OT to make the playoffs.

 

Regarding BB, he's a great defensive coach who recognizes the importance of a great offence. I say the last part because I believe it's not always true with defensive coaches. I think many would continue to play a conservative style and want their defense to win games. That approach may have still won BB a couple of SBs, but certainly not six. 

I love learning cool little random tidbits like this instead of the usual bickering on this board. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[chongli]

21 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Belichick is one of the greatest defensive minds to ever coach the sport, but he’s only had two winning seasons without Tom Brady (someone correct me if I’m wrong).

 

I haven't read the entire thread, so there might be other responses, but I believe it is three seasons:

 

1994 - 11-5 - Cleveland

2008 - 10-6 - New England (with Mass Cassel as QB)

2021 - 10-7 - New England

 

Without Brady, as a head coach of Cleveland and New England, he has four winning seasons and five losing.

Edited September 17, 2022 by chongli

[chongli]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

update on Jones injury

 

I almost thought this was real for a second!

[RobbRiddick]

18 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

Wayne Fontes is the winningest coach in Detroit Lions history. He took them to the playoffs when nobody ever dreamed of that. Plus, he did it with a smile on his face and is a good guy.

 

You're way better than that last remark. He coached in the late 80s and early 90s.

 

Wayne Fonts is the only guy to make the Lions consistently good during all the years I've watched the NFL They routinely got to the playoffs with him and even made the championship game. Of course it helped that he had the best RB in history (IMO) running the ball but he also had guys like Kramer at QB.

 

I've often wondered if they'd somehow managed to beat Washington in the championship game... imagine that, Bills Vs Lions in our second SB. We might have actually won one!

 

Man, we think we've had it tough as fans. Those Lions diehards deserve medals for the way they continue to support their team. I actually feel a sort of spiritual connection with them. This is why I always pull for them (unless they're playing us). Those fans deserve good things to happen to them. If I had to pick a second team I'd definitely pick Detroit

[BobbyC81]

On 9/16/2022 at 12:11 AM, Scott7975 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/it-s-over-lesean-mccoy-rips-patriots-head-coach/ar-AA11RWxP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d342b92fe1c64324a47267e43de4694a

 

 

I agree

Billy B may regret sticking around longer.

[GaryPinC]

4 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

Wayne Fonts is the only guy to make the Lions consistently good during all the years I've watched the NFL They routinely got to the playoffs with him and even made the championship game. Of course it helped that he had the best RB in history (IMO) running the ball but he also had guys like Kramer at QB.

 

I've often wondered if they'd somehow managed to beat Washington in the championship game... imagine that, Bills Vs Lions in our second SB. We might have actually won one!

 

Man, we think we've had it tough as fans. Those Lions diehards deserve medals for the way they continue to support their team. I actually feel a sort of spiritual connection with them. This is why I always pull for them (unless they're playing us). Those fans deserve good things to happen to them. If I had to pick a second team I'd definitely pick Detroit

Between Detroit and Cleveland, we have no claim on being the hardest-luck fans.

[GaryPinC]

20 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

So it was up to the Bills themselves to determine whether or not Belichick came out of there looking like a genius...that's actually my point. The Bills suffered too many self-inflicted wounds that night. The Giants capitalized. But the biggest factor, imho, is that the Bills D could not get off the field. This in turn created the need to press on O, but Belichick had nothing to do (at least to my knowledge) with the Bills suddenly forgetting to tackle---too many times. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgWfLZgr-YA

 

I don't disagree with your emphasis on our defensive failures but to believe Belichick deserves no special credit for that game plan is extremely ignorant.  Our offense was breathtakingly successful and efficient back then, especially that year.  

 

Let's cut through the crap and focus on this:  our amazing offense got the ball on the 10 with 2:16 on the clock and could only provide Norwood a 47 yard opportunity. That was plenty of time for our well-oiled machine to score 7 under most circumstances.  How is that on our defensive failures and why does Belichick deserve no credit for this and throwing us off our game in the first half?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

update on Jones injury

had that been Brady I’d be LMAO. 

 

Mac is just some kid not deserving such disrespect 

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

Billy B may regret sticking around longer.

 

I know he probably wanted to prove something but he had nothing to prove. He probably wanted to prove the Belichick/Brady thing but he really didnt have to.  I think he should have retired.  Its his life though.  Maybe he just cant stand the thought of being away from football.

 

That team needs a QB and a rebuild.  I dont think he is sticking around for that long.  I also dont think stars are going to align again for him like last season.  Even if they do so what?  He wasnt winning a superbowl like that.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Scott7975

[clayboy54]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I know he probably wanted to prove something but he had nothing to prove. He probably wanted to prove the Belichick/Brady thing but he really didnt have to.  I think he should have retired.  Its his life though.  Maybe he just cant stand the thought of being away from football.

 

That team needs a QB and a rebuild.  I dont think he is sticking around for that long.  I also dont think stars are going to align again for him like last season.  Even if they do so what?  He wasnt winning a superbowl like that.

Like so many coaches, he probably thought success was based on scheme and not players. In some regard, the Pats success with only a single long-term superstar was largely based on BB’s scheme. However, as in most of the coaches cases, if you don’t have the horses, you’ll lose the race.

 

…at the end of the day, coaches will eventually outsmart themselves.

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I know he probably wanted to prove something but he had nothing to prove. He probably wanted to prove the Belichick/Brady thing but he really didnt have to.  I think he should have retired.  Its his life though.  Maybe he just cant stand the thought of being away from football.

 

That team needs a QB and a rebuild.  I dont think he is sticking around for that long.  I also dont think stars are going to align again for him like last season.  Even if they do so what?  He wasnt winning a superbowl like that.

 

Did he have to prove anything?  No.  Did he want to show everyone that it was him and not Brady?  Definitely.  Another losing season and he'll have had just 4 winning seasons without him and 6 losing ones.

 

I agree he's not going to want to be in for a rebuild.  And with Bobby allegedly now starting to question his personnel moves, a breakup is all but certain.