How much of a drop off is Ken Dorsey from Brian Daboll (if any)?

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, dorquemada said:

hot take inbound:

 

Daboll was a good to very good OC who occasionally had lapses in judgement where he got either too cute or too predictable with playcalling.  Dorsey, if he can avoid that, will be as good if not better

I will forever be grateful to Dabs for developing QB1.  But Daboll had his fair share of head scratchers, there's no denying that.  Dorsey will stumble a little too but from what I've heard he is a bright offensive mind.  We're in good hands. It's our defense that will concern me more.  On no planet should 13 seconds ever happen.

Edited September 7, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[TC in St. Louis]

Much better.  He's got a quarterback's mind, and he is creative.  He'll make sure they take full advantage of the assets on this offense.  You may even see Dawson Knox throw a pass.  He used to be a quarterback, you know.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Daboll was better than most fans want to think he was. Did a great job with this offense and developing Josh Allen. 

 

But at this stage Josh Allen is completely coordinator proof. I don't expect any drop off as long as Dorsey doesn't suddenly decide we need to run the ball a ton more.

 

I liked Daboll overall.  I think when a play blows up, people generally will just blame the play calling.  Execution doesn't seem to be a term used very often.

[BillsBytheBay]

this may not be a popular view, but I didn't think Daboll was ever anything special. the last few years my biggest frustration was telling my family what the Bills play was, before the bills play.  and he had Andy Reid's dedication to running the ball.

  

[bigK14094]

5 hours ago, dorquemada said:

hot take inbound:

 

Daboll was a good to very good OC who occasionally had lapses in judgement where he got either too cute or too predictable with playcalling.  Dorsey, if he can avoid that, will be as good if not better

yes, Daboll did have some brain cramps with the cutesy stuff.

[mjt328]

I'm of the unpopular opinion that Brian Daboll was just an average Offensive Coordinator, and we actually may be better with Ken Dorsey.

 

Before coming to Buffalo, Daboll did time as the OC of the Browns, Dolphins and Chiefs... and the results were pretty terrible at all three stops.  In his first two years in Buffalo, the offense gradually moved from pretty bad to middle of the pack.  Then suddenly Josh Allen had his breakout season in 2020, and the somehow the entire NFL concludes that Daboll is some kind of playcalling genius and quarterback guru.  I'm not buying it.  Not to mention, Daboll struggled during the first 75% of last season in developing a running game, and adjusting to how defenses were now playing us.

 

Don't get me wrong.  Having continuity at OC was definitely a big thing for Allen's development.  It allowed him to focus more on his mechanics and learning how to read a defense, instead of constantly restarting with a new playbook (like so many other young QBs).  But now that Allen is a veteran superstar, and every defense is keyed on stopping him... we need an OC that knows how to adjust and attack with other players.

 

My feeling in the offseason is that our offense will have a greater focus on the O-Line's run blocking, and getting the backs involved.  Which will ultimately make us more consistent, and less likely to have games like Pittsburgh and Jacksonville.

 

[John from Riverside]

We are about to find out… Tomorrow!!!!!!

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, Rubes said:

I thought Daboll was a very good OC with some great game plans and stretches of really excellent playcalling. Also, periods of time when the planning and playcalling were real head scratchers.

 

I'm hoping Dorsey will improve on that. He's got the creativity and all the tools, we'll just have to see.

 

 

The main differences between Daboll and Dorsey are Daboll has coaches on both sides if the line so he has more insight into what defenses might do and Dorsey used to be a very good college QB who physically was too limited to NFL due to arm strength.  

 

Daboll and Allen were fire and gasoline when he became OC but Daboll learned to temper himself and being in booth helped.  He and Allen bound afterwards with many calls made by either man when Daboll learned to accept Allen's ideas and run new ones by him.  Despite breaking rules for amount of contact between player and coach during offseason NFLPA never raised issue.

 

With Dorsey we have seen no friction and he seems to understand what plays work well for a big bodied mobile QB like Allen and Cam Newton.  With Panthers it is interesting that he worked with Joe Webb as well another very mobile larger QB.  

I was expected Dorsey would have brought in as an assistant someone he worked for or played with which would have helped me analyzing his style.  In press conferences he is very comfortable without getting bland or irritated which is a good sign that he is comfortable now.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I fully expect Dorsey to be better than Daboll.  I always thought Daboll was limited, and I actually was hoping someone would offer him a head coaching gig, so he'd leave.    

 

I started with some doubts about Dorsey, but I'm fully on board now.  I think he's smarter than Daboll, and I think he's more willing to take risks than Daboll.   I think he will be a hot head coaching prospect in three years, max.   The Bills will need to write him a big check to keep in Buffalo as OC, just like the Pats were willing to do with McDaniels.  

 

Am I sure?  Of course not.   He could fail miserably.    I just don't think the Daboll set some kind of really high bar.   I think Dorsey's been waiting a few years for the opportunity to run an offense, studying, working at it.   I think he probably had opportunities to leave Buffalo, but he chose to stay for three years.  Why?   Because he see where this was going, and it meant that his OC opportunity was coming in Buffalo, so he waited for it. 

 

I was going to write something very similar to this but you already wrote it for me.  Totally how I feel about it.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

I think Dorsey is taller…so..none.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

First nobody really knows how good or bad Daboll was. Second we know absolutely nothing about Dorsey. Third we have Josh Allen, which makes whoever is calling plays look good. Daboll didn't get beat blocking on 4th and 1 at Tenn and he didn't give up a FG with 13 seconds left. I think the Bills offense will be just fine if the oline stays healthy.  Im more worried about that #1 defense facing real QBs this season.

[billsfan_34]

9 hours ago, Process said:

Literally no one knows lol. 

 

Daboll's play calling sucked. I am hoping there is no where to go but up. 

He had some head scratchers but his overall body of work was good. He was instrumental in Allens development. No need to bash Dabs.

[HOUSE]

I predict Ken Dorsey is in Buffalo for one year, head coach next year.  

[Chaos]

Most people seem to react to OC's as if they consider play calling as their most important function.  That may be right. But I don't think that is the case. I think the development of overall scheme and the individual play designs are more important than the play calling.  To me the best OC's have their players in a postion to execute even though everyone in the stadium knows the obvious play.  The Bills were never going to win because Daboll out thought the opposing team's coaches. I never thought Daboll developed much of an overall scheme or any sort of superior play design. If Dorsey is average, he will be as good as Daboll. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Saffold, Morse and Bates can make Dorsey look great. Open some running lanes for RBs and allow offense to be multidimensional

[PrimeTime101]

20 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I predict Ken Dorsey is in Buffalo for one year, head coach next year.  

House I have a ton of respect for you but man.

 

This is your sarcasm at its best, yes?

 

If not? the only way, we lose McD is not making it to the SB. do you predict that? tell me it aint so

[Doc]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

House I have a ton of respect for you but man.

 

This is your sarcasm at its best, yes?

 

If not? the only way, we lose McD is not making it to the SB. do you predict that? tell me it aint so

 

I believe he means head coach for another team next year.

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Doc said:

 

I believe he means head coach for another team next year.

IDK does he? unspecific. 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

IDK does he? unspecific. 

 

The "in Buffalo" suggests it.

[without a drought]

By this time tomorrow,  people will be either anointing him or calling for his firing. 

 

At least I'm giving him till basically halftime of his first game to determine his future. 

[billsfan1959]

45 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

First nobody really knows how good or bad Daboll was. Second we know absolutely nothing about Dorsey. Third we have Josh Allen, which makes whoever is calling plays look good. Daboll didn't get beat blocking on 4th and 1 at Tenn and he didn't give up a FG with 13 seconds left. I think the Bills offense will be just fine if the oline stays healthy.  Im more worried about that #1 defense facing real QBs this season.

No, but he did take the ball out of Allen’s hands on 2nd and 3rd downs on two drives in the Divisional game, resulting in two punts. I don’t know about you, but I think, in the most important game of the year, I would rather take my chances with Allen on third down than handing the ball off to Singletary…

[HappyDays]

I trust Allen's opinion on this question more than anyone on the planet. He has said that Dorsey changed the way he saw the game and publicly endorsed him for the job. That's good enough for me.

[buffaloboyinATL]

This has a “match made in heaven” feel to it. Allen and Dorsey have great chemistry, and will build their careers together in the coming years. I am excited to see how they work together. 

[DrDawkinstein]

I'm excited to see what Dorsey dials up coming from the background of being a fairly successful QB. I think he could elevate Josh's game to a whole new level. Let's ***** go.

[Warriorspikes51]

Air Raid Attack? 

[El Guapo]

Would anyone be upset if Daboll had stayed here?  I wouldn’t be, and I would have been happy for the continuity.  No one should underestimate what he did here. 
 

that being said, I think Dorsey will be fine. Josh has a long leash. 

[billsbackto81]

Zero drop. Dorsey has the benefit of having watched Daboll's success and mishaps over the past 3 years. He won't have to start Josh on training wheels like Daboll with a sub par O line in the beginning. He should be able to hit the ground running because of his chemistry with Josh, familiarity with the personnel and upgraded talent on the O line. I think the whole different OC discussion is over blown and Dorsey is in a great situation to set his mark as an up and coming play caller.

[Richard Noggin]

10 hours ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

I personally hated Dabolls play calling.  When it worked, it was great.  He was just so slow in adjusting play calling.  Tampa Bay game last year is a perfect example.  Changes should have been made in the first half of that game yet, waited until the second half.  I thought he was stubborn and tried to force things at times.  The Jet sweep all but disappeared last year.  Why?

 

Anyway, I suspect Dorsey will be better.

 

Daboll seemed to be stubbornly loyal to his weekly game-plans. Luckily, he devised a lot of good plans to attack opposing defenses. 

 

The problems arose when for whatever reason those plans didn't work. I can remember too many games where Daboll failed to help his offensive linemen, especially, win their matchups due to repetitive or predictable play-calling. That week one Pittsburgh game last year, just dropping back repeatedly and letting some gifted Pitt specimens tee off on a middling group of protectors. Daryl Williams and Cody Ford and Ike Boettger need a little help against the likes of Watt, Heyward, Ingram, etc. 

 

I've always envied more intuitive play callers, who have a more consistent system and set of packages and plays they rely on. Have a plan, but feel the game more. Respond to what IS happening on the field, rather than what you predicted SHOULD happen on the field. Marry the run and the pass more fundamentally so that plays look the same and defenders have less idea what's coming. 

[HOUSE]

9 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

House I have a ton of respect for you but man.

 

This is your sarcasm at its best, yes?

 

If not? the only way, we lose McD is not making it to the SB. do you predict that? tell me it aint so

It ain't so....

[IndyMark]

Daboll was average at best; let us not forget game one last year, too many head scratching OC plays to count, yet the 4th quarter 4th down play call was cause for termination. Let us not hold Dorsey to a higher standard.

 

Daboll was not even in the top 3 or even arguably top 5 in Josh's development.....Palmer, Dorsey (as you know, QB coach), Beasley/Diggs, veteran leaders at the time like Lee Smith, McDermott/Beane...that is 5 right there, off the cuff.

 

Daboll and Allen's first year together, by all accounts, was not smooth in any way. Hence, the move upstairs.

 

They viewed each other in vastly different lights...case in point, during an interview Josh would say it is nice having a guy you can call with a play idea and talk through it, etc.....then Daboll in a similarly timed interview would state he viewed Josh as "a son". Not only is that awkward, they were not even in synch in how they perceived their relationship. A buddy vs a father figure. To me this captured Daboll's disconnect of his perception to the reality of his place on our team.

 

To be fair, Daboll was a genius play designer. No question. He was a very middling and average play caller. He was vastly overrated on his impact to Josh's development. By the end of last season with the sudden emergence of our running game you can tell McDermott had a come to jesus moment with Ol'Dabs.

 

I am grateful to the Giants each and everyday.

[Aussie Joe]

I wanted to be the first person this season to say  “ fire Dorsey”…

 

50 more will join me prior to half time on the Game Day thread today…