oldmanfan Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 I am pretty sure the Bills legal counsel was very involved and as such they were not going to make a snap decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said: Not every team does a full deep dive on every player. In this case beane says he has talked to double digit teams and no one said they knew. I do think it is possible this was out locally at SDS and could have been known. But even then you only would have had rumors. He was worth a 6th round pick. I am diss appointed we don’t get to see what he could have become but they did the right thing. I assume some of this falls on the scout who is presenting the player to the organization. At the least, the scout's job is to get the name to the Bills Internal Investigation organization for their background verification. I am sure the scout would have talked to the local football coaches, who in turn may have hid the whole issue. Again, no point in putting the blame game...the responsibility lies with Beane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Just now, stevewin said: I think it probably was some of all of the above that you mention. Also, with regard to end of July, I can only imagine what the exchange with the psycho lawyer was like, we've all seen how he operates. Even if he did give details, the Bills at that time were prob like wtf? - then asked Araiza about it, who apparently stuck by his version of the story which obviously didn't have all the same detail. So at that point it was still Araiza's story vs psycho lawyer's "allegation" - so they continued to "have the back" of the player with the info they had at the time. I think the civil case made it real - even if the lawyer had mentioned some of the details in July, they could have thought he was bluffing/lying (again dont forget to take into account how this lawyer has presented himself - and that Araiza's story remained unchanged). Once the lawyer's allegations in July were in an actual civil suit, they were "real" now. And of course then then it hit the fan and they saw what a sh!tstorm this would be, and frankly at that point probably started doubting Araiza's version - or at least had to be concerned there were elements in the civil case that were very different from his account of what happened. It then became apparent it would drag out as a distraction and only get worse- and I also think the possibility that it was really true started to weigh more heavily on McD and others. It was simply an untenable situation to try to deal with this, both in the present and who knows how far into the future, and be 100% committed/focused on football I think this is perfectly stated. The fella who apparently started an account to crusade on this can reiterate ad nauseum. It won't change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, Bangarang said: It’s so annoying when people write clickbait headlines and then contradict themselves in the actual story. and they're completely anonymous... Anonymous: "Oh, yeah. We totally knew!" Reporter: "What did you know?" Anonymous: "Well, nothing really. Also, don't tell anyone it's us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, UKBillFan said: no franchise is classier than any others. I disagree with this completely. I think the Bills have proven this is not true. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake_My_Head Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, BuffaloBob said: The kid has had a lawyer and the girl’s counsel has been trying to negotiate with him for some time. They knew what was coming. IDK. He may have 'known' what was coming. But no one, including MA, may have been prepared to see the detailed blow-by-blow account contained in that civil suit document. That was written for shock and awe destructive purposes and appears to have accomplished that with the Bills, the public and I suspect MA as well. . Edited August 28, 2022 by Shake_My_Head 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Since1981 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, BuffaloBob said: level of intoxication. The age of consent in Cali is 18. She was 17 at the time. This alone is an admission of statutory rape Yep. This part is really not in dispute. easy cut ties. Not sure why BB didn’t know this in July+ KP TP (3 daughters in 20’s) may have helped BB SM firm up their own opinions and totally cut ties. Edited August 28, 2022 by Since1981 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I disagree with this completely. I think the Bills have proven this is not true. Don't think we can be sure either way. It was an easy decision as he was a rookie and a punter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: why did the Ps attorney contact the Bills before filing the complaint? What would be the purpose of that? To put the heat on Araiza and facilitate a settlement. Araiza didn't want to play ball, so Ps atty escalated by nudging the employer (which in turn, in theory, would nudge Araiza). It didn't work, so it was on to plan B. Destroy Araiza and achieve justice in that way. The first plan had the benefit of allowing P to avoid testifying at trial. But since Araiza didn't want to cooperate there, and P would have to testify, she decided to make things as painful as possible for him. (Just like, in her view, he did to her.) Hence where we are today. (And FWIW, it's exactly what I would have done. He said there was no chance at settlement, and he took her dignity, so on behalf of my client I'd take his, and then his job. The next step is to threaten his freedom, and the media releases surely have been noticed by the SD prosecutor's office.) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 9 hours ago, muppy said: Are you serious or is this sarcasm I can't tell. Im not okay with your comment here. How about not doing anything to cause you to be sued regardless of player position. smh That too. But I am serious here. just look at Rothesberger, QB. Watson QB I can name more. I am Sorry you cannot handle and accept the REALITIES of the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Beck Water said: Look, I see what you're getting at, but anyone who believes that any employer is "family" and not a business, which will pursue its business interests first and formost, is highly naive. I do agree with your take that Beane's statement "culture is more important than winning" seems like BS. This is indeed about reducing distraction and controversy for the team so that it can focus on winning; and where was culture 3+ weeks ago when the LA Times printed details and named the lawyer, then the lawyer called the Bills the next day? The Bills themselves have used the "family" descriptor to differentiate themselves, to make themselves a more attractive destination for players. You'd like to believe that, but at the end of the day management caved to the media mob to protect their product in lieu of action with prudence while the facts are yet to be known. In doing so they abdicate this superiority of "moral high ground" that seems to be part of the Bills branding. The business of the NFL is winning, which means circling the wagons for the Von Millers of the world and not so much for a replaceable cog. I get it. It just means everything I've listened to and bought into the last 5 years about the Bills' "culture" and "process" means something other than what I was led to believe. What I won't swallow is the claim by Beane that this move came for the sake of that "culture." 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 11 hours ago, pennstate10 said: He was dishonest with the Bills? Is there any evidence to support this statement or are you simply making ish up? Sure did he tell the Bills about this incident that happened in October during the scouting prep for the Draft? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: Like most organizational failures, it's often a combination of oversights and unfortunate circumstances. I'll bet Araiza was not a serious pre-draft target for the Bills, and the decision to draft him was less informed than their usual selections. At least, this is a plausible rationalization. I want to preface my post by admitting I am a Buffalo Bills homer. I will choose to take their word over any and all conjecture and spin we fanbase can come up with. Having said that I think that the organizational failure would have been to sit on this an fester and distract rather than take decisive action when they knew more post lawsuit filing. I thought the bolded was a very good take. It sounds very plausible to me. Araiza clearly doesnt want to jeopardize his chance of being drafted by an NFL team. So his camp spun this in their favor of course. Could the Bills have known of the seriousness of the allegations before this lawsuit occurred? It sounds like yes possibly. But what I DO know is if the Bills had any inkling as to how serious this would have all become he would have never been on their draft board come draft day in the first place. The Bills may have not vetted this guy properly but they did better when they knew better. That to me is much more important. I really appreciated the youtube clip @Lost posted just up thread. Made a Lot of sense in regards to this entire situation I am ready to move on and know that the Bills WILL vet their draft boards candidates with greater scrutiny in the future. It was a very tough lesson they learned from araiza . Let's hope something like this never happens again! Edited August 28, 2022 by muppy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 This case reminds me of the Brock Turner rape case at Stanford. Everyone was totally wasted on hard liquor that was drank fast and then it all got blurry. They ended up outside in the dirt with him on top of her and someone saw them and called the cops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner Too much alcohol leads to some really destructive life decisions. He admitted having sex with her on a taped phone message, he's so screwed. There must be other details the police are trying to piece together or he would of been arrested by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 43 minutes ago, Fabio9000 said: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/8/27/23324566/some-teams-knew-of-matt-araiza-gang-rape-allegations-before-2022-nfl-draft Not surprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: There must be other details the police are trying to piece together or he would of been arrested by now. Yeah, we already know there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: To put the heat on Araiza and facilitate a settlement. Araiza didn't want to play ball, so Ps atty escalated by nudging the employer (which in turn, in theory, would nudge Araiza). It didn't work, so it was on to plan B. Destroy Araiza and achieve justice in that way. The first plan had the benefit of allowing P to avoid testifying at trial. But since Araiza didn't want to cooperate there, and P would have to testify, she decided to make things as painful as possible for him. (Just like, in her view, he did to her.) Hence where we are today. (And FWIW, it's exactly what I would have done. He said there was no chance at settlement, and he took her dignity, so on behalf of my client I'd take his, and then his job. The next step is to threaten his freedom, and the media releases surely have been noticed by the SD prosecutor's office.) In brackets. ALLEGEDLY. 200+ posts on on the other thread, 25 pages on this thread and still it's a case of guilty before being proven innocent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Since1981 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 I started to think about this more as a family small business. After wide knowledge spread. So, picture conference call with Terry Kim Sean Brandon. KP TP (3 daughters in 20’s) totally cut family ties with a person that has admitted to sex with intoxicated 17 yr old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: I’ll disagree on that one. It appears she lied and said she was a college student at a nearby university. I guess that can be used as a defense in CA, but I’ll admit my legal knowledge is limited. However, that’s not the primary basis for my disagreement. It’s much more of a real world one. A 17 year old girl can easily look 19 or 20. College students are often looking to party and hook up. It’s not like they ask to see ID. Doesn’t matter anymore as he’s gone but I can see how young people can look very similar at a party and this girl probably didn’t stand out as younger. It can be used as a defense in California and should get him out of trouble as far as that part of the incident is concerned because I do not for one second believe she told him she was 17. What I want to know is if he was one of the guys gang-raping her, by asking the other guys who were named or any witnesses who saw him somewhere else but the room while it was happening. If he was there, he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Yeah, we already know there is. Can you catch me up to speed, I was not following this that closely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Maybe other teams knew and this was why 2 punters went ahead of him in the draft? Oh well. Absolutely needed to just move on. Hoping for the best for the girl involved in the situation and if it ends up being misinformation then it’s unfortunate there was job loss and reputation damage but this organization doesn’t need that risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 4 hours ago, JerseyBills said: For the Brand , yes they did. For the team , heck no. We have no punter with 12 13 days to go on a national stage. We just drafted him. If social media didn't exist he'd 100% be playing. Everybody wants to act like they were never 20 years old at a college party and haven't made mistakes I've certainly made mistakes in my life. Nothing of the likes of being involved with, tied to, or anywhere near a gang rape. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Can you catch me up to speed, I was not following this that closely Multiple witnesses said the victim was telling everyone she was 18 and alluding to attending a local college. Then there's no evidence Araiza had anything to do with events after their initial encounter. So, the detectives and DA have to piece all that together and find something worth a criminal conviction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, LeGOATski said: Multiple witnesses said the victim was telling everyone she was 18 and alluding to attending a local college. Then there's no evidence Araiza had anything to do with events after their initial encounter. So, the detectives and DA have to piece all that together and find something worth a criminal conviction. So that makes her lawyers statement make more sense. They want him to talk and are pressuring him to tell what he knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So that makes her lawyers statement make more sense. They want him to talk and are pressuring him to tell what he knows Yeah, the lawyer is playing coy on social media saying all they wanted from him was an apology and a monetary donation to charities that support rape victims. Essentially asking him to confess, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Just now, LeGOATski said: Yeah, the lawyer is playing coy on social media saying all they wanted from him was an apology and a monetary donation to charities that support rape victims. Essentially asking him to confess, lol. Or to tell what he knows about his teammates who may have attacked her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Or to tell what he knows about his teammates who may have attacked her. Of course everyone would love to know whatever Araiza may know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Why would somebody’s employer ever talk to the plaintiff’s lawyer in a civil suit? It’s an employer’s job to pressure the police department to do it’s job against its own employee? Unless her lawyer sent the Bills an advance copy of the civil suit he just filed, I’m having a hard time seeing what the Bills were supposed to do here other than what they did. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, LeGOATski said: Yeah, the lawyer is playing coy on social media saying all they wanted from him was an apology and a monetary donation to charities that support rape victims. Essentially asking him to confess, lol. So far, the attorney has alleged the police are slow walking this, the DA is handling it politically, that the Bills are enablers of sexual assault for drafting a guy to kick footballs, and now, that an Ariaza apology and donation for participating in this horrific incident involving gang assault and piercings being ripped out might have solved the problem for him and he might still be kicking for the Buffalo Enablers. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: So far, the attorney has alleged the police are slow walking this, the DA is handling it politically, that the Bills are enablers of sexual assault for drafting a guy to kick footballs, and now, that an Ariaza apology and donation for participating in this horrific incident involving gang assault and piercings being ripped out might have solved the problem for him and he might still be kicking for the Buffalo Enablers. Interesting. haha Interesting is one word for it. I am shocked this guy had the smarts to pass the bar exam. He is acting the fool in full public view hermano. it is not a good look. Edited August 28, 2022 by muppy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 I prepared a special statement BYE 👋 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: So far, the attorney has alleged the police are slow walking this, the DA is handling it politically, that the Bills are enablers of sexual assault for drafting a guy to kick footballs, and now, that an Ariaza apology and donation for participating in this horrific incident involving gang assault and piercings being ripped out might have solved the problem for him and he might still be kicking for the Buffalo Enablers. Interesting. Yeah, he makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Unfortunately regardless of his guilt or innocence it was absolutely a distraction. We are otherwise loaded for bear. I don't want a distraction in the locker room running until next Thursday, especially not over a punter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 9 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said: The Media is not hated. It's simply a matter of some people being brainwashed into hating the Media. Tim Graham did not help this argument yesterday by basically making the press conference about him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, UKBillFan said: In brackets. ALLEGEDLY. 200+ posts on on the other thread, 25 pages on this thread and still it's a case of guilty before being proven innocent. What's the point? Complaining that mere allegations cost him his job? We don't know that. Could very well be because he was not forthcoming with his employers. (And, I'll add, had all of this come out before the draft, he probably wouldn't have had this job and its tidy signing bonus in the first instance.) Because P's attorney is putting the screws to him? Don't need a finding of guilt by a jury of his peers to play hardball. In point of fact, these tactics appear to be designed to facilitate that finding of guilt. We live in a capitalistic society that, in his instance, includes certain workplace protections that don't apply here. He lost, and he was complicit in that loss. That's life. On to the next thing for him, which, at this point, very well could include time with the California Department of Corrections. 31 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: Why would somebody’s employer ever talk to the plaintiff’s lawyer in a civil suit? It’s an employer’s job to pressure the police department to do it’s job against its own employee? Unless her lawyer sent the Bills an advance copy of the civil suit he just filed, I’m having a hard time seeing what the Bills were supposed to do here other than what they did. Maybe ask for the pleading. And then, if you asked and don't get it, your GM and coach, instead of looking like idiots in the media, can say that they turned over every stone, asked for the complaint, couldn't get it, and were hamstrung. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: What's the point? Complaining that mere allegations cost him his job? We don't know that. Could very well be because he was not forthcoming with his employers. (And, I'll add, had all of this come out before the draft, he probably wouldn't have had this job and its tidy signing bonus in the first instance.) Because P's attorney is putting the screws to him? Don't need a finding of guilt by a jury of his peers to play hardball. In point of fact, these tactics appear to be designed to facilitate that finding of guilt. We live in a capitalistic society that, in his instance, includes certain workplace protections that don't apply here. He lost, and he was complicit in that loss. That's life. On to the next thing for him, which, at this point, very well could include time with the California Department of Corrections. The point is not to assume guilt before proven, just as aspersions should not be cast towards the victim either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 47 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Multiple witnesses said the victim was telling everyone she was 18 and alluding to attending a local college. Then there's no evidence Araiza had anything to do with events after their initial encounter. So, the detectives and DA have to piece all that together and find something worth a criminal conviction. Except for, you know, her allegation that Araiza participated in the second encounter. Don't forget about that. Kind of important, don't you think? Just now, UKBillFan said: The point is not to assume guilt before proven, just as aspersions should not be cast towards the victim either. Nobody's doing that. We save that for the criminal courts. This issue has a lot more to do with optics and values and business. He can talk up his constitutional rights with the DA. (Or maybe he'll exercise them when he's deposed in this action. Stay tuned on that one.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, JerseyBills said: For the Brand , yes they did. For the team , heck no. We have no punter with 12 13 days to go on a national stage. We just drafted him. If social media didn't exist he'd 100% be playing. Everybody wants to act like they were never 20 years old at a college party and haven't made mistakes A "mistake" is something like "last night under the booze I hooked up with someone who is not attractive to sober me and is now pursuing me. Dang! How'd I do with that?" or "Dammit I wore my Canada Goose instead of my Thrift Store last night, it's been stolen" Ripping a girl's piercings out and leaving her bruised and bleeding is something else. Even if Araiza didn't do that himself, if he had a part in setting it up or even in looking the other way while it went on, he's culpable to me. Decent men ####-block rapists, they don't enable them. All that aside, for the team, I think McDermott and Beane 100% did righto. Part of claiming to build a high-character culture is that they've brought in high-character guys who (judging by Keenum and Barkley, and the whole team's demeanor Fri actually) were appalled by reading that lawsuit. Having Araiza continue on the team, as their brother, in their locker room while this hung over his head and could neither be proven nor disproven was going to be incredibly distracting and divisive - to the team. If this sort of "energy suck" kept up, it would disadvantage the team far more than missing some boomer punts (at the expense of hang time and directionality) will. Edited August 28, 2022 by Beck Water 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, SectionC3 said: Except for, you know, her allegation that Araiza participated in the second encounter. Don't forget about that. Kind of important, don't you think? Nobody's doing that. We save that for the criminal courts. This issue has a lot more to do with optics and values and business. He can talk up his constitutional rights with the DA. (Or maybe he'll exercise them when he's deposed in this action. Stay tuned on that one.) From a business angle, cutting him was the obvious decision. From a legal standpoint, he's currently innocent until proven guilty, no matter what an attorney, who seems to be losing the plot, posts on Twitter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Maybe other teams knew and this was why 2 punters went ahead of him in the draft? Oh well. Absolutely needed to just move on. Hoping for the best for the girl involved in the situation and if it ends up being misinformation then it’s unfortunate there was job loss and reputation damage but this organization doesn’t need that risk. Might have been a nice question for yesterday's presser. As in, did you contact the teams who drafted punters ahead of you to see if they knew about this in advance of the draft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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