Epenesa, Ford & Moss -Are they outta here?

[Chandler#81]

2 2nd Rounders and a 3rd in the last 3 Drafts. They just can’t crack the lineup. There’ve been some injuries that have kept them out of games and we platoon DL & RB. But even when they’re healthy, they’re often scratched on Gameday. Our OL has been a weekly shuffle for a couple seasons now, so assuredly Ford has been offered opportunity, whereas we’ve tended to go with ‘hot hands’ at RB & DE. Can Position coaches, new schemes and new player additions help get them to break through? Or have we seen their best and it ain’t cutting’ it.. 

This guy, along with our resident pessimists @BADOLBILZ & @ScottLaw -who’ll blame McBeane, believes the end is near.

 

 

[ALF]

I'm hoping Von Miller can coach up Epenesa and Kromer with Ford  (ALF is cheap) hate to lose 2nd rd players unless a decent trade.

[BillsFanForever19]

It wouldn't shock me to see them move on from Cody Ford or Zack Moss this summer. AJ Epenesa? No way. 

[TheWeatherMan]

Moss might be a 4th or 5th string RB at this point.  Motor, Cook, Johnson ahead of him.  I highly doubt Ford can turn it around and Epenesa has flashed from time to time.  He’s a great / cheap rotational player at this point.  

[Chandler#81]

3 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Moss might be a 4th or 5th string RB at this point.  Motor, Cook, Johnson ahead of him.  I highly doubt Ford can turn it around and Epenesa has flashed from time to time.  He’s a great / cheap rotational player at this point.  

Moss is a fighter -I’ll give him that. Even if he doesn’t really force defenders to “make business decisions“.  He’s a capable receiver as well. Just a hunch, but I think he’s fallen out of favor for something we haven’t been made aware of.. 🤔

[unbillievable]

The only one I see is Moss.

Ford and Epenesa have no one pushing them out. Their cheap rookie contracts work in their favor.

[machine gun kelly]

I see Ford as out.  The other two are deep cheap labor.  They’ll be pushed this year, but I can see them here this year.  It wouldn’t bother me if all three are gone, just their salaries makes it easy to keep them.

[offyourocker]

Moss is safe.  Singletary is in his last year and there is no way we pay him

[Chandler#81]

1 minute ago, offyourocker said:

Moss is safe.  Singletary is in his last year and there is no way we pay him

WOW! 😲 Hot Take, Man! 
 

But I like it.👍

[GunnerBill]

I think Ford is probably on the outside of the 53 looking in as we are sitting here today. They have the presumed starting 5: Dawkins, Saffold, Morse, Bates, Brown and then their top tackle depth (Quess), their top interior depth (Van Roten) and their specialist center backup (which at the moment I'd say is Mancz). That leaves probably 1 spot and I think they are more interested in continuing to develop Doyle than Ford at this point. 

 

Moss and AJE would not be shocking cuts, but I expect both to make the 53 as we sit here today. 

[eball]

Moss played hurt last season; he was not fully recovered from his rookie season-ending injury.  He provides a different sort of skill set than the Bills have with their other backs and I firmly believe he makes this team, even if for nothing more than depth.

 

Epenesa will get at least one more year.  Some guys need more time than others and they won’t give up on him just yet.  It feels like his first two years were about figuring out his correct playing weight and style…he has shown some flashes but needs to be consistent.  I’m not predicting anything past this year.

 

Ford is obviously the one hanging by a thread.  If Beach Chairs doesn’t get through to him he’s a goner.

 

 

[BillsPride12]

Too early to give up on Epenesa 

[Buffalo Boy]

Ranked in order of likelihood:

1.Ford

2.Moss

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.Epenesa

Edited June 24, 2022 by Buffalo Boy

[Paul Costa]

If not traded or injured all 3 will be on the 53 man roster this year. A big part of the “Trust The Process “ philosophy is development. This is a make or break year for all 3. Injuries have gotten in the way of Ford’s & moss’s development. A weight change slowed down Epenesa. No excuses in 2022. You can see the path for all of them to have solid roles. If they don’t take advantage they will be gone next year. 

[H2o]

I think it's more likely that Ford and Moss are sent packing before Epenesa. I partly blame our staff for having Epenesa drop so much weight. I think instead of using him for his strengths, while gradually bringing along his weight loss, the shock to his system has hampered his development. He also had his first offseason going into his rookie year be the Covid offseason. Basically, at this point, he's like a 2nd year player. Ford has been atrocious imo. Couldn't stick at RT and he can't stick at G. I don't think he really fits the Kromer mold either because he's a slow and lumbering type of OL'man. If he doesn't get cut or traded for peanuts I'll be shocked. Moss is a tougher call. He was meh his rookie year, was supposedly hampered last year due to lingering effects from an ankle injury, and Moss was also part of that same 2020 draft class. The RB room is deep this year, but no one outside of Moss can fill that same power RB mold. It will be a heated camp battle for that group, but I think Beane and McDermott will keep him over Duke Johnson. 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

2 2nd Rounders and a 3rd in the last 3 Drafts. They just can’t crack the lineup. There’ve been some injuries that have kept them out of games and we platoon DL & RB. But even when they’re healthy, they’re often scratched on Gameday. Our OL has been a weekly shuffle for a couple seasons now, so assuredly Ford has been offered opportunity, whereas we’ve tended to go with ‘hot hands’ at RB & DE. Can Position coaches, new schemes and new player additions help get them to break through? Or have we seen their best and it ain’t cutting’ it.. 

This guy, along with our resident pessimists @BADOLBILZ & @ScottLaw -who’ll blame McBeane, believes the end is near.

 

 

Well, if this is true who SHOULD the "pessimists" blame?

 

Things happen. It isn't always the fault of the coach and GM when things go bad. Did the Raiders GM know what Ruggs was going to do? Of course not but the GM does bear the ultimate responsibility for his draft selections. 

 

If we are to give Beane credit for selections like Josh Allen, must he not also take the blame for a pick such as Ford? And I will take their backs by saying that these posters (especially @BADOLBILZ) are far more realistic than pessimistic.

[Chandler#81]

10 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Well, if this is true who SHOULD the "pessimists" blame?

 

Things happen. It isn't always the fault of the coach and GM when things go bad. Did the Raiders GM know what Ruggs was going to do? Of course not but the GM does bear the ultimate responsibility for his draft selections. 

 

If we are to give Beane credit for selections like Josh Allen, must he not also take the blame for a pick such as Ford? And I will take their backs by saying that these posters (especially @BADOLBILZ) are far more realistic than pessimistic.

I’ll give you Badol. Extremely knowledgeable-but drenched with vinegar. Scott? Not so much, no.

[Son of a K-Gun]

Saw a roster prediction article on SI yesterday and they also had Moss and Ford getting cut.  His take on the RB room was...interesting.

Quote

Running back (4)

Devin Singletary, Duke Johnson, James Cook and Raheem Blackshear.

Letting go of both Zack Moss and special-teams ace Taiwan Jones could be a risky proposition, but not if the rookie Blackshear asserts himself on special teams, which we believe will happen.

Money won't be a factor, either. In fact, Johnson, a veteran, actually has a slightly cheaper contract than Moss, who is still on his rookie deal, according to Over the Cap.

 

You would think at least one of the guys getting cut...Moss, Ford, Taiwan, Kumerow, Sweeney, hell even Haack as our "holding specialist" (insert eyeroll)...would be able to beat out Siran Neal's clone, but nope.  Neal makes the squad twice in this guy's estimation.  Begs the question that if Beane has developed the ability to clone a player, why pick Siran Neal?

Quote

Cornerback (6)

Dane Jackson, Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, Kaiir Elam, Siran Neal and Christian Benford.

NOTE: Top corner Tre'Davious White is likely to start the season on the PUP list as he continues to recover from December ACL surgery. This means the rookie Benford makes the team coming out of camp.

 

Article here:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/bills-post-minicamp-roster-predictions-battles-brewing-on-both-lines

[BarleyNY]

I’d be surprised if Ford made the team.  Moss is likely to stick amd think he makes it, but he isn’t a lock.  Epenesa is very close to a lock though IMO.   None of the three have done anything to earn a second contract however.  

Edited June 24, 2022 by BarleyNY

[eball]

8 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Well, if this is true who SHOULD the "pessimists" blame?

 

Things happen. It isn't always the fault of the coach and GM when things go bad. Did the Raiders GM know what Ruggs was going to do? Of course not but the GM does bear the ultimate responsibility for his draft selections. 

 

If we are to give Beane credit for selections like Josh Allen, must he not also take the blame for a pick such as Ford? And I will take their backs by saying that these posters (especially @BADOLBILZ) are far more realistic than pessimistic.

 

Oh, c’mon, Bill, nobody needs to defend old Badol.  We know you’ve got a bit of a man crush on him; If he just eased up on his condescending, know-it-all manner he’d get a lot more love around here.

 

Of course the GM both receives the praise and takes the blame for his selections.  No GM in the history of football has batted a thousand.  I don’t think Beane has shown a propensity to “dig in his heels” and keep players who don’t produce just because he drafted them, but I DO think he understands that some players take a little more time than others.  A good GM doesn’t give up on his draft picks too quickly.

 

[DJB]

They all suck

[Chandler#81]

1 minute ago, DJB said:

They all suck

Brilliant analysis. 🤦‍♂️

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

Maybe Kromer can salvage Ford's career. The only thing he going in his favor is our lack of quality depth at guard.

[BarleyNY]

5 minutes ago, DJB said:

They all suck

That was pretty much the whole analysis on the video too.  Unless you want to see the guy’s floor joists you can all keep those 3 or 4 minutes of your lives. 

[Bill from NYC]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Oh, c’mon, Bill, nobody needs to defend old Badol.  We know you’ve got a bit of a man crush on him; If he just eased up on his condescending, know-it-all manner he’d get a lot more love around here.

 

Of course the GM both receives the praise and takes the blame for his selections.  No GM in the history of football has batted a thousand.  I don’t think Beane has shown a propensity to “dig in his heels” and keep players who don’t produce just because he drafted them, but I DO think he understands that some players take a little more time than others.  A good GM doesn’t give up on his draft picks too quickly.

 

Badol is a friend, and I will defend friends when I deem it appropriate to do so. 

 

Btw, nowhere in my post did I say that Beane was a bad GM. My point was that if he is credited with the good selections, who shoud take responsibility for the bad ones? And for all I know, Ford might turn out to be a very good player some day. That was not my point. 

 

Discussions would be boring if everybody agreed on every issue, and those that do so on this board have been proven wrong more often than not. There are still folks who claim that Donte Whitner was a solid draft pick and that Dick Jauron was a good coach, and that is great. It is their opinion! I for one prefer and appreciate realism over blind loyalty, but that's just me.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

There are still folks who claim that Donte Whitner was a solid draft pick and that Dick Jauron was a good coach

 

Who? 

[Bill from NYC]

I don't like to call posters out by name but as far as Jauron, there was one poster who defended him for years. He is either gone or has changed his screen name. The Whitner pick? MANY posters defended this pick, stating that he was "good;" as if this justified the selection. 

[eball]

4 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Discussions would be boring if everybody agreed on every issue, and those that do so on this board have been proven wrong more often than not. There are still folks who claim that Donte Whitner was a solid draft pick and that Dick Jauron was a good coach, and that is great. It is their opinion! I for one prefer and appreciate realism over blind loyalty, but that's just me.

 

Agreed on this point, however I think it’s very easy to see who’s just a blind homer vs. someone who takes a more optimistic viewpoint.  I don’t pay attention to blind homers any more than I do blind pessimists.  I’m labeled a homer because I choose to view things through an optimistic lens.  I think I’m a generally happy person because of my perspective, particularly when it comes to things over which I have no control.  I’m extremely realistic but I hate going down the rabbit hole of realism vs. pessimism because it takes away from why I really come here to participate.  I actually think there’s something inherently wrong with someone who wants to criticize a fan for being a fan.  “You’re not realistic enough” — so what?  We’re fans.  And if you’re a Bills fan visiting a Bills fan website, why shouldn’t you be loyal?

 

[Mr. WEO]

who would notice?

[wjag]

Certainly all three are likely candidates.

 

Ford has to be on his last chance. 

 

Moss is next likely.  The churn in the RB room says they're not content.

 

Epenesa least likely although there are a ton of DL competing for those spots.  

 

All have a chance to impress in July and save their spots.  All have a chance to be August cuts/trades.

Edited June 24, 2022 by wjag

[Fan in Chicago]

18 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

. The Whitner pick? MANY posters defended this pick, stating that he was "good;" as if this justified the selection. 

I admit that I was one of those that defended the pick (not the player because I don't follow college sports) as I gave the benefit of doubt to the FO for several years. After being burnt by the likes of McGahee, Maybin, Whitner, Flowers, I gradually stopped doing that. But also that I am not averse to first round DBs in general as it is always important to pick a good player more than focusing on the position. Of course, there are some obvious positions you don't spend a 1st rounder on, such as RB. 

[Chandler#81]

17 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I admit that I was one of those that defended the pick (not the player because I don't follow college sports) as I gave the benefit of doubt to the FO for several years. After being burnt by the likes of McGahee, Maybin, Whitner, Flowers, I gradually stopped doing that. But also that I am not averse to first round DBs in general as it is always important to pick a good player more than focusing on the position. Of course, there are some obvious positions you don't spend a 1st rounder on, such as RB. 

I, too, liked Donte. I could get past all the crying about his Draft position because he started immediately and was good. I kept wanting to complain he’s too small, but he kept performing! The team? Not so much.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

We All know Cody's struggles.

Moss has never looked like much.

AJ has too much upside to cut already. 

[Son of a K-Gun]

Moss has a clear path to making the team...there is no one else in the RB that brings his thump.  Maybe I'm the blind optimist here, but I still remember some promising performances from his rookie year where he would get the tough yards and even the first Miami game last year where he made defenders pay en route to a pair of TD's.  It really seemed like Moss was facing immediate contact last season whenever he carried the ball so he never really had a chance.  As the season went on he found his way into the doghouse and that was that.  Would love to see him carve out a role in this offense in 2022.

[4merper4mer]

One year ago Moss was presumed by many to be the lead back with Motor seen as a 2nd option and possibly on his way out.  This wasn’t universally true and pointing to fantasy football is never a great idea but look at last year’s drafts and you’ll see what was thought of Moss/Singletary.  It was close but Moss normally went before Singletary.  The same was discussed on this board.  2020 led many to believe Moss was on the rise and 26 had found himself in a precarious spot.

 

A few games into 2021 not much had changed.  If anything both RBs were seen as issues.  It wasn’t until late in the season where 26 was seen as a contributor to many on this board.

 

The drafting of Cook is meaningful for sure.  They definitely want him to have a role and three backs is a lot more of a crowd than two.  That doesn’t mean Moss is without an opportunity to prove himself.  He isn’t.  You could make an argument that Cook profiles to take more plays away from Singletary than he does from Moss.  Moss played hurt for a lot of the year too.  He’s not done.

[MarkyMannn]

I think it's tough to part with guys on rookie contracts. Moss was hurt most of last year so I give him a pass.  AJE maybe can get coached up. Ford is depth at best, but he's a bust imo. See ya Cody

[Fan in Chicago]

57 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I, too, liked Donte. I could get past all the crying about his Draft position because he started immediately and was good. I kept wanting to complain he’s too small, but he kept performing! The team? Not so much.

But truth be told, he did underperform his draft position. Clearly not his fault that he was drafted so high, would have been okay as a 2nd round pick.

[eball]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

If we are going to suggest posters like @eball are knowledgeable I have to get some credit no? 😉

 

No.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

If we are going to suggest posters like @eball are knowledgeable I have to get some credit no? 😉

Take whatever credit you are getting, man, don't get too greedy

😀

[Bill from NYC]

6 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

But truth be told, he did underperform his draft position. Clearly not his fault that he was drafted so high, would have been okay as a 2nd round pick.

I judge draft selections partially by looking at who a team passed up in order to select a certain player. In 2006, the draft was loaded with talented players at positions at which we were weak.

 

Another GREAT example would be the McKelvin pick. Iirc, 2 of the next 3 picks were excellent offensive linemen and our line sucked at the time. No, we had to pass them up for a corner. 😟

 

Tough times Bro!