Dwayne Haskins killed [Edit: struck by vehicle]

[NoSaint]

36 minutes ago, wppete said:

This reporter sums it all up. Well said! And still no apology or acknowledgement by Sherfter. Disgusting.

 

 

The guy puts out metric tons of content live and on Twitter - often breaking the news and not just reframing someone else’s report. Some will be imperfect. It’s not like he trashed the guy in any type of over the top way. He acknowledged that the guy was a great collegiate player but still trying to catch on in the nfl. Is it really worth getting out the pitchforks and torches or is it a little bit less consequential?

 

who among us has a history without some sort of ill executed but non malicious mistake 

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

The guy puts out metric tons of content live and on Twitter - often breaking the news and not just reframing someone else’s report. Some will be imperfect. It’s not like he trashed the guy in any type of over the top way. He acknowledged that the guy was a great collegiate player but still trying to catch on in the nfl. Is it really worth getting out the pitchforks and torches or is it a little bit less consequential?

 

who among us has a history without some sort of ill executed but non malicious mistake 

Totally agree but I think people are looking at that small subset of sensitive  issues he’s tweeted on recently that have miss the mark badly. This and the recent Watson tweet reacting to the grand jury announcements rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. The GJ returning no bills on the charges in no way “proves innocence”

[boyst]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

The guy puts out metric tons of content live and on Twitter - often breaking the news and not just reframing someone else’s report. Some will be imperfect. It’s not like he trashed the guy in any type of over the top way. He acknowledged that the guy was a great collegiate player but still trying to catch on in the nfl. Is it really worth getting out the pitchforks and torches or is it a little bit less consequential?

 

who among us has a history without some sort of ill executed but non malicious mistake 

bUt My FeElInGs WeRe HuRt

 

Sports ball player dies in horrible event but in scheme of all things this must matter because SPORTS BALL!

 

(Edit since you know me you know I'm mocking the others and not you... Others won't get that...now they do.)

5 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Totally agree but I think people are looking at that small subset of sensitive  issues he’s tweeted on recently that have miss the mark badly. This and the recent Watson tweet reacting to the grand jury announcements rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. The GJ returning no bills on the charges in no way “proves innocence”

BuT yOuR fACtS dO nOt AlIGn WiTh My FeElInGs.

 

Seriously? It doesn't prove guilt. And that's all that matters unless you failed civics class and have the basic understanding below a 3rd grade education.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Boyst62

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

bUt My FeElInGs WeRe HuRt

 

Sports ball player dies in horrible event but in scheme of all things this must matter because SPORTS BALL!

 

(Edit since you know me you know I'm mocking the others and not you... Others won't get that...now they do.)

BuT yOuR fACtS dO nOt AlIGn WiTh My FeElInGs.

 

Seriously? It doesn't prove guilt. And that's all that matters unless you failed civics class and have the basic understanding below a 3rd grade education.

 

 

"unless you failed civics class and have the basic understanding below a 3rd grade education"?  seems a little Extra here when you make the comment  "it doesn't prove guilt and that's all that matters" in response to someone else saying "the recent Watson tweet reacting to the grand jury announcements rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. The GJ returning no bills on the charges in no way “proves innocence”  ".

 

A Grand Jury indictment would not prove guilt if they returned a true bill, so saying "it doesn't prove guilt and that's all that matters" is bizarro.  It's like being asked how to make chicken soup and responding "it doesn't contain kumquats and that's all that matters"  Of course it doesn't contain kumquats, it's chicken soup.  Of course it doesn't prove guilt, that's not the point of a True Bill or No Bill from a Grand Jury.

 

A "no bill" likewise does not mean "Deshaun Watson did not commit any crimes and is not guilty of any offenses" as Watson's lawyer claimed, it just indicates the alleged crime did not have enough supporting evidence to move forward and the case is dismissed.

 

I believe you probably know this stuff.  Or should I type I bElEIvE yOu pRoBAblY kNoW thIs STufF?

 

By the way, if you're here to talk football, Welcome.

 

 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Boyst62 said:

bUt My FeElInGs WeRe HuRt

 

Sports ball player dies in horrible event but in scheme of all things this must matter because SPORTS BALL!

 

(Edit since you know me you know I'm mocking the others and not you... Others won't get that...now they do.)

BuT yOuR fACtS dO nOt AlIGn WiTh My FeElInGs.

 

Seriously? It doesn't prove guilt. And that's all that matters unless you failed civics class and have the basic understanding below a 3rd grade education.

I am pretty ok with even a simple acknowledgment that it’s not a great tweet but of all the things to crusade about….

[maddenboy]

8 hours ago, muppy said:

@IronMaidenBills if there were 2 things I can say that may have helped prevent this accident is definitely

 

!. Have your cell phone in  car while driving at all times...and use it to call police and AAA if stuck on a freeway

2.  If you are broken down on a highway STAY IN YOUR VEHICLE

 

No. 

 

Do NOT stay in your vehicle.

 

We learned in Driver's ed, and most cops will agree:  When you are on the side of the road in a car, ASSUME your car Will get hit from behind. 

 

Therefore, dont stay in the car.  And dont stand behind the car (the worst possible place).  They taught us to apply the parking brake and then stand in front of the vehicle (1) far enuf that the impact into your car wont crush you, yet (2) not so far that you will get hit by cars which dont smash into the back of yours.

 

(separately: one of the problems with impaired drivers is that, when they are just trying to make it, they try to blend with traffic.  But impaired, they might fixate on your car to match speeds and, by the time they realize your car is actually not moving, its too late).

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by maddenboy

[T&C]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

"unless you failed civics class and have the basic understanding below a 3rd grade education"?  seems a little Extra here when you make the comment  "it doesn't prove guilt and that's all that matters" in response to someone else saying "the recent Watson tweet reacting to the grand jury announcements rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. The GJ returning no bills on the charges in no way “proves innocence”  ".

 

A Grand Jury indictment would not prove guilt if they returned a true bill, so saying "it doesn't prove guilt and that's all that matters" is bizarro.  It's like being asked how to make chicken soup and responding "it doesn't contain kumquats and that's all that matters"  Of course it doesn't contain kumquats, it's chicken soup.  Of course it doesn't prove guilt, that's not the point of a True Bill or No Bill from a Grand Jury.

 

A "no bill" likewise does not mean "Deshaun Watson did not commit any crimes and is not guilty of any offenses" as Watson's lawyer claimed, it just indicates the alleged crime did not have enough supporting evidence to move forward and the case is dismissed.

 

I believe you probably know this stuff.  Or should I type I bElEIvE yOu pRoBAblY kNoW thIs STufF?

 

By the way, if you're here to talk football, Welcome.

 

 

Civics class is one they need to bring back.

[GoBills808]

You guys are entirely too familiar with the third grade curriculum to be accusing others of failing classes imo

[strive_for_five_guy]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Thank you for bringing some facts to this discussion.  

[muppy]

1 hour ago, maddenboy said:

No. 

 

Do NOT stay in your vehicle.

 

We learned in Driver's ed, and most cops will agree:  When you are on the side of the road in a car, ASSUME your car Will get hit from behind. 

 

Therefore, dont stay in the car.  And dont stand behind the car (the worst possible place).  They taught us to apply the parking brake and then stand in front of the vehicle (1) far enuf that the impact into your car wont crush you, yet (2) not so far that you will get hit by cars which dont smash into the back of yours.

 

(separately: one of the problems with impaired drivers is that, when they are just trying to make it, they try to blend with traffic.  But impaired, they might fixate on your car to match speeds and, by the time they realize your car is actually not moving, its too late).

 

I respectfully disagree as does this article sourced by the Insurance Information Institute. I have never heard anyone recommend a person  leave the car if disabled on a freeway.

 

https://www.allstate.com/tr/car-insurance/what-to-do-when-car-breaks-down.aspx

[JoPoy88]

3 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

bUt My FeElInGs WeRe HuRt

 

Sports ball player dies in horrible event but in scheme of all things this must matter because SPORTS BALL!

 

(Edit since you know me you know I'm mocking the others and not you... Others won't get that...now they do.)

BuT yOuR fACtS dO nOt AlIGn WiTh My FeElInGs.

 

Seriously? It doesn't prove guilt. And that's all that matters unless you failed civics class and have the basic understanding below a 3rd grade education.

Yikes buddy. Probably should’ve pocketed this reply because you just showed your whole a** (and not a particularly learned one.) That’s okay I think you’re improving.

Edited April 11, 2022 by JoPoy88

[BillsfaninSB]

5 hours ago, NoSaint said:

The guy puts out metric tons of content live and on Twitter - often breaking the news and not just reframing someone else’s report. Some will be imperfect. It’s not like he trashed the guy in any type of over the top way. He acknowledged that the guy was a great collegiate player but still trying to catch on in the nfl. Is it really worth getting out the pitchforks and torches or is it a little bit less consequential?

 

who among us has a history without some sort of ill executed but non malicious mistake 

I tend to agree with you.  I think the amount of blowback he is getting is excessive.  But with that said, when someone is announcing to the world that a professional athlete has passed, it is more important to be compassionate than competitive.  Take a moment to make sure it is informative but respectful instead trying to be first. 

 

 

[JoPoy88]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It’s the world we live in today… everyone’s under a microscope with social media.

 

I agree, and that’s why I am just saying show some tact - allude to the guy’s failed career in Washington

literally any other day other than the day of his death. Adam, glued to twitter 24/7 as per his job, should know better.

[purple haze]

7 hours ago, NoSaint said:

The guy puts out metric tons of content live and on Twitter - often breaking the news and not just reframing someone else’s report. Some will be imperfect. It’s not like he trashed the guy in any type of over the top way. He acknowledged that the guy was a great collegiate player but still trying to catch on in the nfl. Is it really worth getting out the pitchforks and torches or is it a little bit less consequential?

 

who among us has a history without some sort of ill executed but non malicious mistake 

His tweet about Colt Brennan’s passing only included info about Brennan being a great college player - no mention of his many “struggles.”  So, Schefter is, apparently,  capable of better when it suits him.

Edited April 11, 2022 by purple haze

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, maddenboy said:

No. 

 

Do NOT stay in your vehicle.

 

We learned in Driver's ed, and most cops will agree:  When you are on the side of the road in a car, ASSUME your car Will get hit from behind. 

 

Therefore, dont stay in the car.  And dont stand behind the car (the worst possible place).  They taught us to apply the parking brake and then stand in front of the vehicle (1) far enuf that the impact into your car wont crush you, yet (2) not so far that you will get hit by cars which dont smash into the back of yours.

 

(separately: one of the problems with impaired drivers is that, when they are just trying to make it, they try to blend with traffic.  But impaired, they might fixate on your car to match speeds and, by the time they realize your car is actually not moving, its too late).

 

 

Wow - never heard any of this.  When my daughter just took drivers education - the #1 thing they said with any breakdown on a fast moving road or freeway was do not leave the car.  Stay in even once the cops/tow truck arrives and let them work.  
 

A car is designed to take an impact and still protect you - outside of the car you are subjected to flying debris as cars go by and exposed to traffic that can hit you.  The wind of the cars rushing by - also can work as a vortex - especially a tractor trailer and try to pull you toward the road (the same phenomenon happens with trains and people wanting to stand close by and end up sucked under).

 

Edit - thanks @muppy - that is exactly what I thought also.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, T&C said:

Civics class is one they need to bring back.

No argument there.

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 hours ago, muppy said:

I respectfully disagree as does this article sourced by the Insurance Information Institute. I have never heard anyone recommend a person  leave the car if disabled on a freeway.

 

https://www.allstate.com/tr/car-insurance/what-to-do-when-car-breaks-down.aspx

EXACTLY!

 

Maybe this generation forgets the "Thruway Paper Toll Tickets"... Because of EZ-Pass... Those tickets had printed on them:

 

DO NOT LEAVE YOUR VEHICLE DURING A BREAKDOWN,  WAIT FOR HELP 

 

I guess paper is good for somethings. 

 

My crazy brother, years ago breaks down on Thruway and starts walking.  Gets grazed by a mirror.  He didn't read the paper toll ticket! 

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

When walking on a fast moving road... Hikers, walkers don't realize the forces,  the amount of drift when walking. 

 

Divided highways go in one direction.  If anything: Walk against traffic.

 

Golden Rule:

 

"Bike with traffic, hike against traffic!"

 

This is simply lost... Orthodoxy on people today.   People biking against traffic drives me wild! Hiking with it, not as much, but still a "death sentence!"

 

[CSBill]

17 hours ago, wppete said:

These are disgusting comments by Gil Brandt. Shameful.

 

 

 

Why does anyone give him a microphone? Clearly he has is not at full capacity. Don't allow him to be in a situation where he will do or say things to embarrass himself. The host is just as irresponsible as Gil B.

[Mr. WEO]

Left this thread for a bit.  People jumping on Schefter because his original tweet labeled Haskins as "struggling"?  

 

Is nothing unworthy of outrage anymore?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Left this thread for a bit.  People jumping on Schefter because his original tweet labeled Haskins as "struggling"?  

 

Is nothing unworthy of outrage anymore?

I don’t know the answer to that question, but since Schefter deleted his tweet pretty promptly someone might have explained what the perceived problem in this instance was

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Too guddam many media sorts think a Tweet can now replace a long form news article.

[Mr. WEO]

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I don’t know the answer to that question, but since Schefter deleted his tweet pretty promptly someone might have explained what the perceived problem in this instance was

 

Well, he works for a company and they told him to take it down, no doubt....because of the outrage.

[Man with No Name]

maybe he shouldn't have tweeted what he did, but it was not OUTRAGEOUS. certainly not worthy of the reaction it garnered. 

7 hours ago, purple haze said:

His tweet about Colt Brennan’s passing only included info about Brennan being a great college player - no mention of his many “struggles.”  So, Schefter is, apparently,  capable of better when it suits him.

Brennan was long out of football and was a 6th rd pick who never had expectations above what he would become. 

[YoloinOhio]

21 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

maybe he shouldn't have tweeted what he did, but it was not OUTRAGEOUS. certainly not worthy of the reaction it garnered. 

Brennan was long out of football and was a 6th rd pick who never had expectations above what he would become. 

The reactions that I saw were from people who knew him and were in pain. The poorly worded announcement of his death, which was how a majority of people found out, deserves criticism on its face but combined with the emotion of the situation it resulted in some outrage as well. And I don’t think anyone can decide what  is worthy of any type of reaction during a time of extreme shock and grief.
 

I was not personally outraged by the tweet. I do think it was a poor decision on Schefter’s part.  A tragedy came out of nowhere. A young man lost his life. The announcement was jarring and included something negative and unrelated to the situation. I certainly understand why some who are strongly emotionally tied to this man would feel outrage. At best, it was bad form. And ESPN was right to have him delete it and re-post. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Left this thread for a bit.  People jumping on Schefter because his original tweet labeled Haskins as "struggling"?  

 

Is nothing unworthy of outrage anymore?

He was an accomplished athlete that made it to the NFL.  He signed on a dotted line that guaranteed him 14.4 million dollars (before taxes/fees).  He’s made enough money to support himself and his family for quite awhile.  
 

In the scheme of life….which is what we’re talking about when someone dies…..he was hardly struggling and there’s no reason to include that when announcing someone’s death.  If you don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, your issues run deeper than most of us thought.  

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He was an accomplished athlete that made it to the NFL.  He signed on a dotted line that guaranteed him 14.4 million dollars (before taxes/fees).  He’s made enough money to support himself and his family for quite awhile.  
 

In the scheme of life….which is what we’re talking about when someone dies…..he was hardly struggling and there’s no reason to include that when announcing someone’s death.  If you don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, your issues run deeper than most of us thought.  

The actual wording was I believe that he was struggling to catch on with a team. This isn’t even accurate because he just signed a new deal with the Steelers. He isnt guaranteed a roster spot but it wasn’t as if he was let go after a year. they liked him and brought him back and by all accounts was developing and working hard and was competing to be QB2. He was doing really well personally and professionally and like Terry Mclaurin said “trying to become the best version of himself, just like all of us.” So sad. 

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I tend to agree with you.  I think the amount of blowback he is getting is excessive.  But with that said, when someone is announcing to the world that a professional athlete has passed, it is more important to be compassionate than competitive.  Take a moment to make sure it is informative but respectful instead trying to be first. 

 

 

in an interesting twist, it feels like the race to be the most outraged about it has taken away more than the tweet itself did.

 

it would’ve been much cooler if we saw a race to post the coolest human interest stories about Haskins as a “blow back” instead of just trying to be the angriest and loudest to condemn schefter 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The actual wording was I believe that he was struggling to catch on with a team. This isn’t even accurate because he just signed a new deal with the Steelers. He isnt guaranteed a roster spot but it wasn’t as if he was let go after a year. they liked him and brought him back and by all accounts was developing and working hard and was competing to be QB2. He was doing really well personally and professionally and like Terry Mclaurin said “trying to become the best version of himself, just like all of us.” So sad. 

Yeah, I read the original and instantly thought that it was in poor taste.   I didn’t see any reason to say that he struggled at anything.  It carries no value.  If he would have left that part out, there would be no problem.  
 

I believe that world has become too soft in many respects. This isn’t one of those cases, jmo

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

in an interesting twist, it feels like the race to be the most outraged about it has taken away more than the tweet itself did.

 

it would’ve been much cooler if we saw a race to post the coolest human interest stories about Haskins as a “blow back” instead of just trying to be the angriest and loudest to condemn schefter 

Fortunately,  I have seen a lot of these stories over the past couple days 

[Warcodered]

49 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The actual wording was I believe that he was struggling to catch on with a team. This isn’t even accurate because he just signed a new deal with the Steelers. He isnt guaranteed a roster spot but it wasn’t as if he was let go after a year. they liked him and brought him back and by all accounts was developing and working hard and was competing to be QB2. He was doing really well personally and professionally and like Terry Mclaurin said “trying to become the best version of himself, just like all of us.” So sad. 

I mean the Steelers have Mason Rudolf that they imply that they haven't given up on, signed Mitch Trubisky, and are a favorite to draft a QB this year.

[boyst]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

"unless you failed civics class and have the basic understanding below a 3rd grade education"?  seems a little Extra here when you make the comment  "it doesn't prove guilt and that's all that matters" in response to someone else saying "the recent Watson tweet reacting to the grand jury announcements rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. The GJ returning no bills on the charges in no way “proves innocence”  ".

 

A Grand Jury indictment would not prove guilt if they returned a true bill, so saying "it doesn't prove guilt and that's all that matters" is bizarro.  It's like being asked how to make chicken soup and responding "it doesn't contain kumquats and that's all that matters"  Of course it doesn't contain kumquats, it's chicken soup.  Of course it doesn't prove guilt, that's not the point of a True Bill or No Bill from a Grand Jury.

 

A "no bill" likewise does not mean "Deshaun Watson did not commit any crimes and is not guilty of any offenses" as Watson's lawyer claimed, it just indicates the alleged crime did not have enough supporting evidence to move forward and the case is dismissed.

 

I believe you probably know this stuff.  Or should I type I bElEIvE yOu pRoBAblY kNoW thIs STufF?

 

By the way, if you're here to talk football, Welcome.

 

 

I really won't be back much, don't worry. I have nothing if anything to add, football or not. I've seen enough in the years just reading I know there isn't much I want to discuss here. I enjoy reading it just fine.

 

It'll keep your job easy. 😊

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

He was an accomplished athlete that made it to the NFL.  He signed on a dotted line that guaranteed him 14.4 million dollars (before taxes/fees).  He’s made enough money to support himself and his family for quite awhile.  
 

In the scheme of life….which is what we’re talking about when someone dies…..he was hardly struggling and there’s no reason to include that when announcing someone’s death.  If you don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, your issues run deeper than most of us thought.  

 

Schefter's role was to break the story, not to eulogize him.  All that will come soon from many who knew this poor guy well. 

 

No one, certainly not me, is questioning his success in securing his financial future prior to his death (straw man...).  He was clearly struggling to get a starting job in the NFL; perhaps that didn't even need to be pointed out as it was well known by everyone. 

 

But your harping on Schefter including that one word as completely inappropriate is a bit of manufactured outrage.  That's my opinion on the overall  reaction to Schefter's tweet.  It's more a function of the general disdain for Schefter (certainly on this board) than it is for the legitimate lamentation of pervasive "poor taste" in society.

 

My "issues" notwithstanding, lol...

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Schefter's role was to break the story, not to eulogize him.  All that will come soon from many who knew this poor guy well. 

 

No one, certainly not me, is questioning his success in securing his financial future prior to his death (straw man...).  He was clearly struggling to get a starting job in the NFL; perhaps that didn't even need to be pointed out as it was well known by everyone. 

 

But your harping on Schefter including that one word as completely inappropriate is a bit of manufactured outrage.  That's my opinion on the overall  reaction to Schefter's tweet.  It's more a function of the general disdain for Schefter (certainly on this board) than it is for the legitimate lamentation of pervasive "poor taste" in society.

 

My "issues" notwithstanding, lol...

Yes…and he could’ve EASILY broken the story AND left out the part about struggling to catch on…..like he did in his replacement tweet after his boss told him to remove the original.  
 

yes, the world is getting soft.  If that’s your point, I agree.  If your point is that Schefter needed to include sentence in order to break the story, I disagree wholeheartedly. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Yes…and he could’ve EASILY broken the story AND left out the part about struggling to catch on…..like he did in his replacement tweet after his boss told him to remove the original.  
 

yes, the world is getting soft.  If that’s your point, I agree.  If your point is that Schefter needed to include sentence in order to break the story, I disagree wholeheartedly. 

 

 

 

It's not....so I explicitly said so in the post you just responded to .

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's not....so I explicitly said so in the post you just responded to .

Ok….so your point is what?  That people are upset about the tweet because of their disdain for Schefter?  

[BUFFALOTONE]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:08 PM, Tom Donahoe, GM said:

I live right by this highway. Has anyone said how he got onto 595 on foot? That's absolutely tragic and wild. That is a major highway with cars and trucks going 80+ over 5-6 lanes each way. Unbelievable

I live in Plantation. This seemed so senseless, if he ran out of gas there was literally nothing in a 5 mile range unfortunately. My god, should have waited for road side assistance which is pretty common in that area, So sad...

[Mr. WEO]

16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ok….so your point is what?  That people are upset about the tweet because of their disdain for Schefter?  

 

I wrote that as well.  Good pickup.

 

 

It's certainly a significant factor.  Schefter isn't a likeable guy.  

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I wrote that as well.  Good pickup.

 

 

It's certainly a significant factor.  Schefter isn't a likeable guy.  

 

Schefter is probably one of the more likable personalities out there.  

 

What he said wasn't appropriate for the timing but do believe the outrage is a bit much. 

[oldmanfan]

I don't necessarily think Schefter was wrong in that Haskins was struggling to stay on, but he should really have thought about those words before putting them out there.  They served no purpose.  And Peter King this morning rightfully took Gil Brandt to task.  What he said was inexcusable, and it was inexcusable of the directors and/or producers of that show and/or his partner to not cut his mike immediately and issue an apology.  Brandt is old I get that, but you simply cannot allow him to do what he did.  Perhaps it's time for him to call it a career.