Diggs Extended 4 more years breaking news per WGR 550

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

the whole lot of them are punters...

Isn’t one guy throwing around silly British colloquialisms enough for this board?  You have to start in now too?

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Isn’t one guy throwing around silly British colloquialisms enough for this board?  You have to start in now too?

[ArtVandalay]

I love Diggs, but absolutely hate this. 

 

WR are often injured and severely less effective after age 30. We already had him locked up through 30. We just extended him into what is most likely non-useful life. 

 

This is going to hurt big time as early as next year, unless he's an exception to the rule.

 

Allen is going to have a lot of different WRs over his career.  This is an over-commitment. 

 

Winning teamswith highly paid QBs inevitably need to make very tough and unpopular decisions with aging star talent. This will pacify fans, but has a high likelihood of hindering success in the long haul. It's the easy choice with little criticism, not the difficult choice with greater success. 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

Why are people worrying about signing Gabe this far out? Some people work really hard at creating things to worry about.

 

There are 2 more years to go, a rising cap, and the unknown. Worry later, or not at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Tom Donahoe, GM

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Spotrac wiped Diggs' number and dont have a new one, so the total listed for the Bills is currently $18M short. Expect $10-11M to be added back on when the new numbers come in.

 

 

If it's $10-11 for Diggs, and $8 for the rookies, Bills are right up against it.  I thought I'd seen something in this thread that said Diggs' cap hit was going down this year.   I'm not a cap guy at all, but I thought teams generally like to go into the season with a few million to cover in-season acquisitions.  All this means (1) let's wait until Spotrac gets some reliable numbers and (2) Overdorf probably still has some tinkering to do.  Where can Overdorf play with numbers:

 

Not to start a wide-ranging argument on one subject or another, if they extend Edmunds, can they move any of his current cap hit downstream?   I've wondered, as have others whether Poyer might get traded.  Are there savings there?   Is there a White restructure?

 

Bottom line for me is I trust the process.  Beane knows what he needs, both in cap space and in talent, and he will continue to work both to get where he wants to go.   He's proven to be unpredictable, Saffold, Miller, and Diggs being only some of the recent examples.  

 

I'm expecting the Bills' draft picks to be changing.  I won't be surprised if the Bills trade picks for a player, or trade a player for picks.   If it's the latter, the Bills then will package picks to move up for a player they want in the early rounds.   

 

Beane's been the most interesting GM to watch since Donahoe.  

 

 

[MAJBobby]

52 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

If it's $10-11 for Diggs, and $8 for the rookies, Bills are right up against it.  I thought I'd seen something in this thread that said Diggs' cap hit was going down this year.   I'm not a cap guy at all, but I thought teams generally like to go into the season with a few million to cover in-season acquisitions.  All this means (1) let's wait until Spotrac gets some reliable numbers and (2) Overdorf probably still has some tinkering to do.  Where can Overdorf play with numbers:

 

Not to start a wide-ranging argument on one subject or another, if they extend Edmunds, can they move any of his current cap hit downstream?   I've wondered, as have others whether Poyer might get traded.  Are there savings there?   Is there a White restructure?

 

Bottom line for me is I trust the process.  Beane knows what he needs, both in cap space and in talent, and he will continue to work both to get where he wants to go.   He's proven to be unpredictable, Saffold, Miller, and Diggs being only some of the recent examples.  

 

I'm expecting the Bills' draft picks to be changing.  I won't be surprised if the Bills trade picks for a player, or trade a player for picks.   If it's the latter, the Bills then will package picks to move up for a player they want in the early rounds.   

 

Beane's been the most interesting GM to watch since Donahoe.  

 

 

Shaw

Bills sitting at 18.1M in space (Diggs not on here, can count as low at 7M in cap hit likely, most likely is 10M in space)

Bills will not need 8M in space for the Rookies.  It is likely 2.5M in space needed for Rookies.

 

So that will likely leave Bills in the 6M cap space range post draft. 

 

Poyer Trade brings a savings of 6.6M

 

Edmunds Extension would drop this years cap hit by max of 5M

 

Two easy cap tickets still remain...

 

White - Base to Bonus can save 6M

Dawkins - Base to Bonus can save roughly 5M 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

If it's $10-11 for Diggs, and $8 for the rookies, Bills are right up against it.  I thought I'd seen something in this thread that said Diggs' cap hit was going down this year.   I'm not a cap guy at all, but I thought teams generally like to go into the season with a few million to cover in-season acquisitions.  All this means (1) let's wait until Spotrac gets some reliable numbers and (2) Overdorf probably still has some tinkering to do.  Where can Overdorf play with numbers:

 

Not to start a wide-ranging argument on one subject or another, if they extend Edmunds, can they move any of his current cap hit downstream?   I've wondered, as have others whether Poyer might get traded.  Are there savings there?   Is there a White restructure?

 

Bottom line for me is I trust the process.  Beane knows what he needs, both in cap space and in talent, and he will continue to work both to get where he wants to go.   He's proven to be unpredictable, Saffold, Miller, and Diggs being only some of the recent examples.  

 

I'm expecting the Bills' draft picks to be changing.  I won't be surprised if the Bills trade picks for a player, or trade a player for picks.   If it's the latter, the Bills then will package picks to move up for a player they want in the early rounds.   

 

Beane's been the most interesting GM to watch since Donahoe.  

 

 

 

Diggs' number was $18M. New deal should free up another $8M for us.

 

From what I've heard on the radio by cap experts, Spotrac numbers, while technically accurate for right now, do not give the whole picture. Things change once they go to "Top-51". It is expected that Beane already has the money for rookie contracts earmarked, and if we were to go to Top-51 today, there would be a few million available for the rookie deals (we definitely dont need $8M for rookies). PLUS, the $8M or so we created with the new Diggs deal.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by DrDawkinstein

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Diggs' number was $18M. New deal should free up another $8M for us.

 

From what I've heard on the radio by cap experts, Spotrac numbers, while technically accurate for right now, do not give the whole picture. Things change once they go to "Top-51". It is expected that Beane already has the money for rookie contracts earmarked, and if we were to go to Top-51 today, there would be a few million available for the rookie deals. PLUS, the $8M or so we created with the new Diggs deal.

Cool.  Thanks.

 

In other words, the Diggs $8 million will cover in-season needs plus another relatively inexpensive FA or two.  

 

Thank heaven for you guys who take the time to understand this.  I just want to know if my GM is mortgaging the future and whether he has continuing room for moves.   Sounds like he does.   Beane makes it look easy - add talent, restructure, add talent, restructure, add talent.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Cool.  Thanks.

 

In other words, the Diggs $8 million will cover in-season needs plus another relatively inexpensive FA or two.  

 

Thank heaven for you guys who take the time to understand this.  I just want to know if my GM is mortgaging the future and whether he has continuing room for moves.   Sounds like he does.   Beane makes it look easy - add talent, restructure, add talent, restructure, add talent.  

 

I wouldnt sweat that much. There are so many tricks and moves and loop holes available to competent GMs. With restructuring and moving money around, Beane will always get us what we need. How he does it is up to him and Overdorff to worry about, and they seem to be some of the best in the league at it.

 

For us fans, "the cap is a myth". And even better, expected to go up by large amounts with the pending new TV/streaming deals and Amazon and Apple throwing their large wallets into the ring.

[Fan in Chicago]

20 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I wouldnt sweat that much. There are so many tricks and moves and loop holes available to competent GMs. With restructuring and moving money around, Beane will always get us what we need. How he does it is up to him and Overdorff to worry about, and they seem to be some of the best in the league at it.

 

 

So..... We have room to make a vet move or two ahead of the draft. Cool!

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

By that time we'd be looking at at least $30 million per year as the average market value of top WRs. You always pay the superstars on your team a year early. Our superstars are Allen, Diggs, and White. Beane paid all of them a year early. A year later each of their contracts looked (or in Diggs' case, will look) like bargains. Beane knows what he's doing.

 

If the fallout of giving Diggs a long term contract that will save us millions on cap space years into the future is that we lose Poyer this offseason or next, so be it. Poyer is replaceable. Diggs is not.

 

I disagree that the WR market is just going to keep rising that quickly.   We've seen spikes and plateau's in every position salary except QB.   I stated before the offseason starts that I think the WR market is a bubble that will burst when some of these elite talents of the past couple drafts........and this one.........increase the supply in the market.  

 

I think the Bills just bought Diggs at the top of the market.    

 

They could have gotten the same deal or better next offseason if they so desired.

 

And if they had drafted a WR that blew up this year and/or Gabe Davis broke out they would have been well positioned to move on from Diggs and seriously unburden their cap.

 

I also think that there will end up being either a great deal of dead money or a couple years of bad football on the back end of his deal...........this contract will not age well.    

 

As for the fallout in the locker room...........I'm just noting that it doesn't alleviate all issues.......there will always be new ones and this deal likely has some direct impact on that.

 

I couldn't care less if Jordan Poyer is happy with his contract.   He has issues with addiction and chaos in his personal life........."not happy" has been his normal.    He doesn't have to be happy to play well.    Hyde, like Poyer, has a very limited remaining shelf life.   Edmunds hasn't taken the next step to warrant a new deal.    None of these players contractual satisfaction should be Beane's concern in 2022.   You can't be a good GM and keep everyone happy.   

[Einstein's Dog]

21 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

So..... We have room to make a vet move or two ahead of the draft. Cool!

Or, in a differently strategized way, room to make a move for a vet after the draft.  Still Cool.

[Shaw66]

44 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For us fans, "the cap is a myth". And even better, expected to go up by large amounts with the pending new TV/streaming deals and Amazon and Apple throwing their large wallets into the ring.

I never know if people are being cynical when they say the cap is a myth.   Hearing you say it confirms my view.   It certainly is not a myth, it's just a black box that we can't possibly understand, because we don't know what conversations Beane is having with players, agents, the league (about where the cap is going), etc., etc.  All I know is that it's more myth to me than it is to you. 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Or, in a differently strategized way, room to make a move for a vet after the draft.  Still Cool.

I'd guess that about now, Beane's shutting down meaningful free agency discussions.   I mean, sure, if an unexpected opportunity arises, he'll move, but the draft is looming.  I'd think his days are full directing the finalization of the board, and discussing potential draft-related moves - trading picks for players, players for picks, picks for picks.   He needs to be in position to deal during the draft, and now is when those conversations are going on with other teams.  He's still looking at the cap while he's doing all of that, because changes in draft position affect his cap exposure, as well as changes in the number of picks, as well as the impact of players coming or going in trades for picks.  

 

It's a big poker game.  And I'd bet Beane is an excellent poker player.  

[longtimebillsfan]

15 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Could you provide a link? I've yet to hear anyone who has any info on what the contract looks like. Just fan speculation.

In today's Buffalo News the article on Diggs extension states that hus 2022 cap hit has been lowered. 

[Einstein's Dog]

37 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'd guess that about now, Beane's shutting down meaningful free agency discussions.   I mean, sure, if an unexpected opportunity arises, he'll move, but the draft is looming.  I'd think his days are full directing the finalization of the board, and discussing potential draft-related moves - trading picks for players, players for picks, picks for picks.   He needs to be in position to deal during the draft, and now is when those conversations are going on with other teams.  He's still looking at the cap while he's doing all of that, because changes in draft position affect his cap exposure, as well as changes in the number of picks, as well as the impact of players coming or going in trades for picks.  

 

It's a big poker game.  And I'd bet Beane is an excellent poker player.  

I seriously doubt Beane is shutting down talks.  He probably just took a break to let Miami's putrid, stupid, signing wear off.  After another couple of days the pressure goes back on the CB agents.  It's too great of an opportunity to get a CB he likes at a great price.  It's a prime opportunity for hard ball and I don't think this is the sort of thing Beane will pass up.

 

Put yourself in Nelsons or Rhodes shoes, 3 weeks to the draft and you don't have a team.  CBs like Gilmore and Fuller ahead of you on the pecking order and no one doing much in the way of moves.   Offer expires before the draft - and then 5-10 CBs will likely be taken in the first two rounds - demand will have dried up.

 

I think Beane can, and will, squeeze certain, select CBs hard in the next couple of weeks.  

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

I love Diggs, but absolutely hate this. 

 

WR are often injured and severely less effective after age 30. We already had him locked up through 30. We just extended him into what is most likely non-useful life. 

 

This is going to hurt big time as early as next year, unless he's an exception to the rule.

 

Allen is going to have a lot of different WRs over his career.  This is an over-commitment. 

 

Winning teamswith highly paid QBs inevitably need to make very tough and unpopular decisions with aging star talent. This will pacify fans, but has a high likelihood of hindering success in the long haul. It's the easy choice with little criticism, not the difficult choice with greater success. 

 

And your solution to this would have been to do what, exactly?

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I seriously doubt Beane is shutting down talks.  He probably just took a break to let Miami's putrid, stupid, signing wear off.  After another couple of days the pressure goes back on the CB agents.  It's too great of an opportunity to get a CB he likes at a great price.  It's a prime opportunity for hard ball and I don't think this is the sort of thing Beane will pass up.

 

Put yourself in Nelsons or Rhodes shoes, 3 weeks to the draft and you don't have a team.  CBs like Gilmore and Fuller ahead of you on the pecking order and no one doing much in the way of moves.   Offer expires before the draft - and then 5-10 CBs will likely be taken in the first two rounds - demand will have dried up.

 

I think Beane can, and will, squeeze certain, select CBs hard in the next couple of weeks.  

My sense has been it's the opposite.   

 

Everyone's looking for corners, and the cheap, talented corners are in the draft.  Rather than getting into a bidding war for a veteran, GMs are now inclined to see what falls to them in the draft, and I think they know that all the other GMs are thinking the same way.   They also know that once the draft happens, the demand for corners is going to drop (because teams will have taken one or two in the draft), so the competition to sign the veterans will drop, and the therefore the price will drop.  

 

I say this because there always seem to be some quality name veterans looking for jobs in May and June.  

 

Sure, something may break now, and Beane will be ready, but I think the market for free agents remains pricey until after the draft every year, and there just doesn't seem to be much reason to pay high prices for a veteran corner when you can draft the help you need and fill in with cheaper veteran corners in a month.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, TBBills said:

You just started learning this football stuff... it's ok leave the decision making to the guys that know more than you.

 

We're all here on a message board to discuss "this football stuff".

Most of us also understand that none of us are "decision making".  We can still discuss it.

[Solomon Grundy]

If the Bills are going “all in”, I don’t see them trading anyone from the #1 defense in the league last season. Why upset the apple cart? The Wizard of OBD has a handle on this 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

If it's $10-11 for Diggs, and $8 for the rookies, Bills are right up against it.

 

It's not $8M for the rookies.

 

It's been discussed over and over in various threads that the actual top-51 cap impact of signing players for our current draft slots is about $2M.

That's because only the first 3 round picks will fall into the top-51, and each of those picks will displace a player being paid $.895M who is currently being counted in the top-51.

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not $8M for the rookies.

 

It's been discussed over and over in various threads that the actual top-51 cap impact of signing players for our current draft slots is about $2M.

That's because only the first 3 round picks will fall into the top-51, and each of those picks will displace a player being paid $.895M who is currently being counted in the top-51.

Thanks.  That's what I get for thinking I know what I'm talking about.   They need $8 million to sign the rookies, according to Spotrac, but every one who makes the top 51 will displace someone.   

 

Overdorf's job is safe for another day!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

I love Diggs, but absolutely hate this. 

 

WR are often injured and severely less effective after age 30. We already had him locked up through 30. We just extended him into what is most likely non-useful life.

 

A key point to remember is, when you hear about some fantastical contract, never judge until you learn the details. 

 

There's a good article about it here.  The data are pretty startling on how few NFL contracts are paid to completion:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/3/15/18266458/free-agent-contracts-guaranteed-money-how-long-do-deals-last

 

The point is when we hear about Von Miller signing a 6 year, $120 million contract - "OH NOES!  We're Going to be Paying him when he's 38!!!" - we need to look at what's actually guaranteed and understand that $51.4M guaranteed really means it's essentially a 3 year, $17M contract.

 

So when we hear 4 year, $104M contract extension with $70M guaranteed, wait to see the details.

 

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks.  That's what I get for thinking I know what I'm talking about.   They need $8 million to sign the rookies, according to Spotrac, but every one who makes the top 51 will displace someone.   

 

Overdorf's job is safe for another day!

 

Yeah, it's confusing.  The info is there in Spotrac, but you need to know what you're looking for.  And one of the guys here and I have had some back-and-forth whether Spotrac doesn't have features to account for the top-51 displacement (the verdict was, it does not and I was shown that I wasn't accounting for this)

[SCBills]

27 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

If the Bills are going “all in”, I don’t see them trading anyone from the #1 defense in the league last season. Why upset the apple cart? The Wizard of OBD has a handle on this 

 

#1 Defense that got absolutely shredded when it mattered.  

 

I don't really care how good they are against middling QB's tbh.  Can they hold up against elite offenses should be the question we ask.  If they aren't essential to accomplishing that, then I don't really care about upsetting any apple carts. 

[Chandler#81]

33 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

If the Bills are going “all in”, I don’t see them trading anyone from the #1 defense in the league last season. Why upset the apple cart? The Wizard of OBD has a handle on this 

I agree. McBeane treasure their Captains, regardless of the Peanut Gallery’s contempt. Tremaine’s exit opens a huge hole we don’t have and the amount of 6’ 7” mlbs out there can be counted on an armless man’s hand.

Makes no sense to even consider this.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[nucci]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

A key point to remember is, when you hear about some fantastical contract, never judge until you learn the details. 

 

There's a good article about it here.  The data are pretty startling on how few NFL contracts are paid to completion:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/3/15/18266458/free-agent-contracts-guaranteed-money-how-long-do-deals-last

 

The point is when we hear about Von Miller signing a 6 year, $120 million contract - "OH NOES!  We're Going to be Paying him when he's 38!!!" - we need to look at what's actually guaranteed and understand that $51.4M guaranteed really means it's essentially a 3 year, $17M contract.

 

So when we hear 4 year, $104M contract extension with $70M guaranteed, wait to see the details.

 

 

Yeah, it's confusing.  The info is there in Spotrac, but you need to know what you're looking for.  And one of the guys here and I have had some back-and-forth whether Spotrac doesn't have features to account for the top-51 displacement (the verdict was, it does not and I was shown that I wasn't accounting for this)

it's amazing after all these years some still don't know this

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

 

 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

5 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

I love Diggs, but absolutely hate this. 

 

WR are often injured and severely less effective after age 30. We already had him locked up through 30. We just extended him into what is most likely non-useful life. 

 

This is going to hurt big time as early as next year, unless he's an exception to the rule.

 

Allen is going to have a lot of different WRs over his career.  This is an over-commitment. 

 

Winning teamswith highly paid QBs inevitably need to make very tough and unpopular decisions with aging star talent. This will pacify fans, but has a high likelihood of hindering success in the long haul. It's the easy choice with little criticism, not the difficult choice with greater success. 

 

This reminds me of the Falcons Julio extension.

 

Hopefully works out much better for the Bills than it did the Falcons.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

10 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

This reminds me of the Falcons Julio extension.

 

Hopefully works out much better for the Bills than it did the Falcons.

Jones was 32 when the extension was made. Diggs in 28. It's not comparable. 

[wjag]

Diggs is so smooth talking to the press.  He is the poster child of the anti-diva WR.

[Norcalbillsfan]

14 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Not sure what makes you believe this?? Why is it looking more difficult? He still playing on his rookie contract so I don't understand 

 

9 hours ago, nucci said:

Why?

 

Not saying it's impossible, but if davis continues how he finished last year he could quickly command elite money by the time his rookie deal is up. Can the bills afford to pay elite money to josh, von, diggs, and upper echelon money to Dawkins, and white? Also possible signings like Oliver, edmunds, and Knox would command upper echelon money. I know the cap goes up and contracts can be reworked, but enough to sign davis if he plays elite? I'm not against signing davis, I'm just saying it looks much more difficult after paying diggs a massive contract. I wouldn't be surprised if the bills drafted a contingency plan for wr2 for down the road if davis commands elite money, then you have a young WR on a rookie deal that's been learning the offense and can be groomed for the #2 spot.

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

[billsbackto81]

34 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

#1 Defense that got absolutely shredded when it mattered.  

 

I don't really care how good they are against middling QB's tbh.  Can they hold up against elite offenses should be the question we ask.  If they aren't essential to accomplishing that, then I don't really care about upsetting any apple carts. 

I absolutely cringe when posters keep referencing "#1 Defense". 

 

I find them to be very good and opportunistic but lacking in key moments. No doubt the #'s were helped by the level of competition most of the season.

 

[BillsFanForever19]

Beane: Good to see you Trevon, why don't you step over here. Have you ever seen the movie "Face Off"? 

 

*Dane Jackson strapped to a machine*

[YoloinOhio]

Yikes stef not letting Josh get complacent!

 

 

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yikes stef not letting Josh get complacent!

 

 

At least he didn't call him fat this time.