New "ironclad" Stadium deal reached

[LeGOATski]

29 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

This guy felt the same way in the 70’s! 

 

27 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Was it Marcia? Did she burn the house down? 

[Awwufelloff]

5 hours ago, ALF said:

Enjoy the lower prices for the next 4 seasons. Maybe splurge and try a club or suite seat for a few games. It will be more expensive in the new stadium. Just when inflation is hitting.

Going to have seasons for next 4 seasons then likely drop them with big increase, went to every game last year too. With josh allen in his prime for next 4 years its going to be a fun time!

[BillsFan692]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:13 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yes, so that would be the other owners, not Pegula, paying the G4 back.  

 

 

Players salary taxes are not new revenue for the state, yet this is a new expense for the state..  That money already goes into the general fund of the State.  You can't now say.. "oh it pays for itself".  That money is already spent on other things. 

 

 

How are players salaries and the taxes generated not new revenue for the state?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, BillsFan692 said:

How are players salaries and the taxes generated not new revenue for the state?

I think he’s saying they were already getting this revenue in previous seasons so you’re adding a new cost in the funding for the stadium without adding new revenue because people were already going to games/players were paying salaries before 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

14 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I'm sure people are going to complain about this that are not from WNY but the reality is they were going to pay for the stadium one way or another.

 

Either $600 million in taxpayer money and spend it elsewhere or ~$175 million in taxpayer money and allocate it to the stadium.

There’s a meme floating around that nys had to cut childrens programs to pay for the new stadium.  I’m going to be in a twitter war just for sharing this indisputable fact that 600 million is already payed for 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

There’s a meme floating around that nys had to cut childrens programs to pay for the new stadium.  I’m going to be in a twitter war just for sharing this indisputable fact that 600 million is already payed for 

That meme is deeply flawed with respect to logical causality.

 

The programs in question experiencing budget reductions are the result of a halt in temporary pandemic funding. At least that's what has been reported by more credentialed news outlets. 

 

One could still make compelling arguments about the societal priorities that lead to such seemingly imbalanced budgetary priorities. I'm here for that. But this particular stadium deal is not some uniquely nefarious corruption. Just business as usual.

 

Public investment in those who need it the least, but who can nonetheless demand it the most.

 

(Until such unlikely time as anonymous private money is legislated out of our political processes, and somehow a majority of the voting public is able to see the world objectively enough to seize control of its rigged systems.) 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

23 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

That meme is deeply flawed with respect to logical causality.

 

The programs in question experiencing budget reductions are the result of a halt in temporary pandemic funding. At least that's what has been reported by more credentialed news outlets. 

 

One could still make compelling arguments about the societal priorities that lead to such seemingly imbalanced budgetary priorities. I'm here for that. But this particular stadium deal is not some uniquely nefarious corruption. Just business as usual.

 

Public investment in those who need it the least, but who can nonetheless demand it the most.

 

(Until such unlikely time as anonymous private money is legislated out of our political processes, and somehow a majority of the voting public is able to see the world objectively enough to seize control of its rigged systems.) 

That’s exactly what I told them 😂 but facts do not matter on the internet 

[Golden*Wheels]

16 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

I still owe some rando in the bathroom a thanks from my first game. I went to wash my hands in the sink post halftime and he nicely grabbed by arm and said....I wouldn't do that if I were you. It became obvious why very quickly.

[SoCal Deek]

People please. Construction projects may just be the ONLY decent investment that your government can make. At their core they are JOBS programs. They put tax money directly back into the LOCAL economy but unlike other ‘socials’ programs they make the people receiving the money actually work for the reward and provide actual training as opposed to the usual waste we hear about in ‘training’ programs. On top of all that, the end product stays with society for what’s often in excess of a half century. Does anyone cry about the $20 million that Rich Stadium cost back in 1972? Of course not!

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think he’s saying they were already getting this revenue in previous seasons so you’re adding a new cost in the funding for the stadium without adding new revenue because people were already going to games/players were paying salaries before 

 

9 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

How are players salaries and the taxes generated not new revenue for the state?

 

What he said.

 

Bills players have been paying state taxes since they have been the Buffalo Bills.   How would this money now be considered "new"?

[Matt_In_NH]

6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

That meme is deeply flawed with respect to logical causality.

 

The programs in question experiencing budget reductions are the result of a halt in temporary pandemic funding. At least that's what has been reported by more credentialed news outlets. 

 

One could still make compelling arguments about the societal priorities that lead to such seemingly imbalanced budgetary priorities. I'm here for that. But this particular stadium deal is not some uniquely nefarious corruption. Just business as usual.

 

Public investment in those who need it the least, but who can nonetheless demand it the most.

 

(Until such unlikely time as anonymous private money is legislated out of our political processes, and somehow a majority of the voting public is able to see the world objectively enough to seize control of its rigged systems.) 

A flawed social media meme, no way!!!!

[Peter]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

What he said.

 

Bills players have been paying state taxes since they have been the Buffalo Bills.   How would this money now be considered "new"?

 

It is money that is available to the state because the team will continue to play in New York State for at least 34 more years.

 

If someone else bought the team and moved them to Toronto, LA, or anywhere else in the world (other than NYS), the money would not be available.

[mjd1001]

On 3/29/2022 at 4:50 PM, eball said:

 

With all due respect, this post makes no sense at all.  OF COURSE if the Bills aren't there people would have to find other things to do, but it's not what anyone wants because the Bills have been there for more than 60 FREAKING YEARS.  None of those other cities you mention know what they're missing.

 

It's like saying, "I really love my wife, and I don't want her to leave, but if she does leave I guess I'd have to look for something else to spend my time on because look at all those other single people - they seem fine."

 

Jesus.

You are speaking from such a narrow point of view.  Its almost funny how you are exasperated by my comment because you only see things through the point of view of an ardent Bills fan.

 

I would bet the majority of the people living in the area are either not Bills fans or are casual fans.... a lot more than are hardcore fans.  You just don't see it, you don't want to see it from the point of view of those people, or you aren't capable of.  Everything I mentioned above does/would apply to those non-fans or casual fans (you know the ones who won't watch the Bills on TV or only watch them when they are competitive/winning.)

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

A flawed social media meme, no way!!!!

A lot of the talk on Reddit is ‘why didn’t they use that money in some sort of infrastructure plan’….the budget includes a 5 year 306 billion dollar infrastructure plan 😂 if you deduct the 550 million tax revenue from the lawsuit the state could fund like 1500 bills stadiums with that money haha 

 

there just isn’t a lot of context in these articles about the stadium…I don’t think people know how huge these budgets really are 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[TheFunPolice]

For all the people suddenly worrying about public money, look at how much $$ went into "extending" the 219 to the middle of freaking nowhere and just stopping pretty much for good because who knows why.

 

a handful of years ago they built a brand new expensive bridge for the 219 to travel a few thousand feet, then exit onto the same road that already had a bridge over the same area. They are literally right next to each other. Politicians showed up to be seen, have their picture taken, and take that exciting ride from Springville to just outside of Springville, where they then exit and drive down the road that was already there serving the same purpose. 

 

LOL you can't make this stuff up. Bridges to nowhere are a thing all over the country. Totally bizarre. We don't even notice because it's so common. 

 

Either extend it to Salamanca as originally planned or don't bother. But that's how our Gov't  works. More multi million dollar studies and decades of talking (and paying full salaries) for people to do nothing. 

 

Then waste a ton of money to accomplish practically nothing. Nobody even blinks an eye. 

 

At least this stadium will get built and serve some purpose for the community. 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[muppy]

On 3/29/2022 at 3:06 AM, Beast said:

I just hope the stadium has a little character if it’s an outdoor facility. Three evenly spaced decks wrapped around the playing field is not what I am hoping for.

esthetics ahh yes I agree. I think they achieved that when the Bisons baseball stadium was constructed. Of course this new football stadium is going to be a brand new shiny addition to Orchard Park. Im surprised  that not much has been spoken about one of the main reasons I was always in favor of the new crib NOT being downtown....and that is our sacred Beloved Tailgating!~!~!!! Who knows how that will all pan out. Im talking mostly about the Hammers Lot crowd. The will be displaced correct? Just curious. oh and this is a pic I found not sure if it has been posted...a prototype of what has been discussed perhaps. Either way Im saving my pennies now for a roadtrip circa completion date #Bucketlist

 

GO BILLS!~!~~!

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by muppy

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

It is money that is available to the state because the team will continue to play in New York State for at least 34 more years.

 

If someone else bought the team and moved them to Toronto, LA, or anywhere else in the world (other than NYS), the money would not be available.

 

True, but It's still not new money.  It doesn't add anything re: stadium costs.  NYS/Erie have simply added a new expense they have to cover with the same revenue (from the team anyway).

 

If someone other than Pegula had bought the team in 2014, they would have been personally on the hook for billions in new stadium costs in LA, for instance.  Likely Toronto as well. 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

A lot of the talk on Reddit is ‘why didn’t they use that money in some sort of infrastructure plan’….the budget includes a 5 year 306 billion dollar infrastructure plan 😂 if you deduct the 550 million tax revenue from the lawsuit the state could fund like 1500 bills stadiums with that money haha 

 

there just isn’t a lot of context in these articles about the stadium…I don’t think people know how huge these budgets really are 

Fundamentally the issue comes down to what governments should and should not do with tax money.  People fall on different sides of the fence on those issues.  What you said is true, the budget is enormous and this is a drop in the bucket.  The  problem (some will say) is the bucket is way bigger than it should be because all these little things add up to a huge numbers is why NY State has huge taxes, county taxes etc.  Once you have a sales tax you can increase it by a small amount and fund new things...over time you get to the bloated condition NY State is in.  This is a case study in the "slippery slope".  I live in New Hampshire, we have no income tax, no sales tax and something like funding for a stadium would be a non starter period, no chance, we are a minimalist government yet people still find things to complain about. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by 13 Second Prevent Defense

[SoCal Deek]

37 minutes ago, muppy said:

esthetics ahh yes I agree. I think they achieved that went the Bisons baseball stadium was constructed. Of course this new football stadium is going to be a brand new shiny addition to Orchard Park. Im surprised  that not much has been spoken about one of the main reasons I was always in favor of the new crib NOT being downtown....and that is our sacred Beloved Tailgating!~!~!!! Who knows how that will all pan out. Im talking mostly about the Hammers Lot crowd. The will be displaced correct? Just curious. oh and this is a pic I found not sure if it has been posted...a prototype of what has been discussed perhaps. Either way Im saving my pennies now for a roadtrip circa completion date #Bucketlist

 

GO BILLS!~!~~!

 

As has often been said…that photo is of the Tottenham stadium in NE London…which by the way is SUPER modern looking both inside and out. It’s style is the complete opposite of the Seattle and/or Indianapolis stadiums as some on here have promoted over the years. 

[dwight in philly]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

True, but It's still not new money.  It doesn't add anything re: stadium costs.  NYS/Erie have simply added a new expense they have to cover with the same revenue (from the team anyway).

 

If someone other than Pegula had bought the team in 2014, they would have been personally on the hook for billions in new stadium costs in LA, for instance.  Likely Toronto as well. 

 

Everything i read, like anybody else on here , is that the usual NYC blowhards are making a stink .. frustrating for sure, but the State has a surplus due to unused Covid   funds. All posturing , IMHO 

[DefenseWins]

https://www.wivb.com/sports/buffalo-bills-stadium-discussions/seneca-nation-leaders-and-community-speaking-out-about-the-governors-plan-to-use-casino-compact-money-for-the-new-stadium/

 

Perhaps it could be named Bills/Seneca Nation Field?

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, dwight in philly said:

Everything i read, like anybody else on here , is that the usual NYC blowhards are making a stink .. frustrating for sure, but the State has a surplus due to unused Covid   funds. All posturing , IMHO 

 

The who?

 

Anyway, it's not about having extra money around this year, it's about what is the best use of public money.

[SoCal Deek]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The who?

 

Anyway, it's not about having extra money around this year, it's about what is the best use of public money.

The very best use of public money is construction. The money stays local, is immediately multiplied back out into the private sector economy and the community gets an asset that’ll generally last for decades. Can anyone name a better use?

Edited March 31, 2022 by SoCal Deek

[dwight in philly]

25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The who?

 

Anyway, it's not about having extra money around this year, it's about what is the best use of public money.

I agree , not disputing anything , was just offering my opinion about the downstate politicos , thats all.. sorry if you took it wrong 

[Heitz]

WU-TANG IS FOR THE CHILDREN!  👐

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, DefenseWins said:

https://www.wivb.com/sports/buffalo-bills-stadium-discussions/seneca-nation-leaders-and-community-speaking-out-about-the-governors-plan-to-use-casino-compact-money-for-the-new-stadium/

 

Perhaps it could be named Bills/Seneca Nation Field?

 

 

Maybe.   I'm guessing they won't be interested in paying for naming rights in this moment of anger.............but you never know.........taking money from people's vice's ranks just barely above stealing it outright........so I don't think principle should be an issue for a well run gaming company.    It's about the next buck.

[Simon]

2 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I want the Bills to get their stadium but hopefully not to cut 800M from Family and Children services to get it.

 

https://cnycentral.com/news/local/hochuls-proposed-nys-budget-cuts-children-and-family-services-funding-by-800m

 

7 minutes ago, f0neguy said:

I read somewhere that the $800m being cut were provided by the Feds as a Covid bonus last year.   Didn’t have it prior to Covid not getting it any more.

 

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You are aware that you don't buy a new stadium on Amazon right?  It doesn't get built in China and delivered to your porch. It's built by hard working, blue collar construction workers, who buy construction materials from other hard working blue collar local product manufacturers.....who use the fruit of their work to buy yet more stuff....and wait for it..... to feed their children so that THEY DO NOT END UP ON THE FAMILY AND CHILDREN SERVICES logs.....right?

 

I'm getting tired of repeatedly cleaning this nonsense out of this Buffalo Bills thread.

Stow it, you sumbitches. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The very best use of public money is construction. The money stays local, is immediately multiplied back out into the private sector economy and the community gets an asset that’ll generally last for decades. Can anyone name a better use?

 

Than a publicly funded NFL stadium?  The funded stadium as a local economic stimulant has been disproven for years---and  it has been posted one here endlessly.    

 

Considering how they are used (spare us the tired old "stadium concerts and bowl games" stuff), it an extremely limited use object that generates zero revenue for nearly every day of its existence.   It's an asset that has almost no value other than to it's sole rent paying tenant for which it was built.

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Than a publicly funded NFL stadium?  The funded stadium as a local economic stimulant has been disproven for years---and  it has been posted one here endlessly.    

 

Considering how they are used (spare us the tired old "stadium concerts and bowl games" stuff), it an extremely limited use object that generates zero revenue for nearly every day of its existence.   It's an asset that has almost no value other than to it's sole rent paying tenant for which it was built.

 

 

 

 

I believe you misread my post. I am not talking about the eventual use of the stadium....but thanks.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I believe you misread my post. I am not talking about the eventual use of the stadium....but thanks.

 

So construction for construction's sake?  Just build something to reap some small local bump unto the project is completed?

 

Why not build something with value?  You get the construction period increase in the local economy ands then the intrinsic value the structure you paid to have built?  Isn't that intuitively a better way to spend the money?

[SoCal Deek]

36 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

 

 

I'm getting tired of repeatedly cleaning this nonsense out of this Buffalo Bills thread.

Stow it, you sumbitches. 

 

With all due moderator respect....this single thread is devoted to the recent stadium financing deal. As best as I've been able to read, almost all of the comments (both pro and con) have been limited to that very topic, and it feels like everyone has been rather respectful....even in their varied opinions. 

My two cents.

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

So construction for construction's sake?  Just build something to reap some small local bump unto the project is completed?

 

Why not build something with value?  You get the construction period increase in the local economy ands then the intrinsic value the structure you paid to have built?  Isn't that intuitively a better way to spend the money?

Thanks! Now we're on the same topic. 🙂 Yes, in general construction projects are an excellent expenditure of public money. Some people think the funds are poured down the drain. They aren't. Construction projects take tax money and put them immediately back in the private sector from which the tax money came in the first place, with only a small fraction going to public administration.

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

With all due moderator respect....this single thread is devoted to the recent stadium financing deal. As best as I've been able to read, almost all of the comments (both pro and con) have been limited to that very topic, and it feels like everyone has been rather respectful....even in their varied opinions. 

My two cents.

Thanks! Now we're on the same topic. 🙂 Yes, in general construction projects are an excellent expenditure of public money. Some people think the funds are poured down the drain. They aren't. Construction projects take tax money and put them immediately back in the private sector from which the tax money came in the first place, with only a small fraction going to public administration.

 

Agreed, but constructing this is pouring public money into the drain.  Its a 1.35 billion monument to what amounts to extortion.  Build the same amount in housing.  Instant value to many who actually helped fund it, that last way beyond the trucks pulling away and the ribbon cutting.

[Simon]

30 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

With all due moderator respect....this single thread is devoted to the recent stadium financing deal. As best as I've been able to read, almost all of the comments (both pro and con) have been limited to that very topic, and it feels like everyone has been rather respectful....even in their varied opinions.

 

Until folks start posting manufactured faux political articles and hollering about how THEY DO NOT END UP ON THE FAMILY AND CHILDREN SERVICES in all caps, which drags the thread into the kind of irrelevant political screaming matches about made-up bullspit that 90% of the Bills fans in this community don't want polluting their forum.

So pretty please, with sugar in top, stow that ****.

 

 

[Ralonzo]

5 hours ago, DefenseWins said:

https://www.wivb.com/sports/buffalo-bills-stadium-discussions/seneca-nation-leaders-and-community-speaking-out-about-the-governors-plan-to-use-casino-compact-money-for-the-new-stadium/

 

Perhaps it could be named Bills/Seneca Nation Field?

 

That, or Heron Menthol Stadium?

[Lost]

 

 

How they extrapolate "majority of NY voters" from a poll sample size of 812 is a bit of a stretch.   The poll operator is clearly a Jets fan

Edited April 1, 2022 by Lost

[SoCal Deek]

20 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Until folks start posting manufactured faux political articles and hollering about how THEY DO NOT END UP ON THE FAMILY AND CHILDREN SERVICES in all caps, which drags the thread into the kind of irrelevant political screaming matches about made-up bullspit that 90% of the Bills fans in this community don't want polluting their forum.

So pretty please, with sugar in top, stow that ****.

 

 

Good luck

Go Bills

[The Wiz]

8 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

When people don't enjoy the spoils they have a tendency to complain about it.

Edited April 1, 2022 by The Wiz

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

1 hour ago, Lost said:

 

 

How they extrapolate "majority of NY voters" from a poll sample size of 812 is a bit of a stretch.   The poll operator is clearly a Jets fan

The majority of voters would oppose virtually every government expenditure if they were asked about them separately. The premise of the article is complete garbage. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by HereComesTheReignAgain

[JoPoy88]

27 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

The majority of voters would oppose virtually every government expenditure if they were asked about them separately. That premise of the article is complete garbage. 

the Post in general is complete garbage.

[BuffaloBob]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:19 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

They aren't getting $350MM in seat licences. I will guess those are worth $120MM. ($2000 avg PSL X 60,000)

 

 

 

 

I know, but they will certainly offset any likely overruns.