New "ironclad" Stadium deal reached

[SoCal Deek]

Everyone has to remember that the stadium hasn’t been designed yet. It still needs to drawn, permitted, etc before they can even start construction. 

[Rubes]

9 minutes ago, Lost said:

Can someone explain PSLs to me?  Is it just season tickets or something else? What's the difference?

 

You won't like it.

 

But here you go: An introduction to the wonderful world of Personal Seat Licenses.

 

Briefly, it means you pay for the right to pay for a season ticket. But you do (usually) get the money back if you sell it PSL to someone else. If you drop your season tickets, you often forfeit the money.

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Rubes

[Kwai San]

3 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I'm assuming the stadium will be made to handle buffalo weather. 

 

Unlikely my old college campus in Rochester that was designed for Phoenix.

 

Undoubtably you mean RIT?  Rotate in Tightly.......81-85 was my sentence.

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Everyone has to remember that the stadium hasn’t been designed yet. It still needs to drawn, permitted, etc before they can even start construction. 

 

If they want it ready by 2026 I would guess the spring of 2023 is when we see shovels in the ground at the latest.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, billykay said:

Can the season start a week earlier ??

 

 

The NFL doesn't want to start their regular season in the poor TV ratings time of summer.........they want to wait until after Labor Day.

 

Makes A LOT more sense ratings wise to extend the season until the beginning of NCAA March Madness..........which is the way it's trending.

 

[BillsFan4]

 

 

Edit- also:

-No new taxes to fund county portion.
-Use of budget surplus and money currently allocated for stadium operating costs towards costs. County will no longer pay operating costs in the future.

 

all things considered, this doesn’t really look that bad for Erie county.

Edited March 28, 2022 by BillsFan4

[filthymcnasty08]

1 minute ago, Rubes said:

 

You won't like it.

 

But here you go: An introduction to the wonderful world of Personal Seat Licenses.

 

Briefly, it means you pay for the right to pay for a season ticket. But you do (usually) get the money back once you drop your season tickets.

 

Provided that the buyer will pay your full PSL value.

 

If it goes like it did for MetLife, where they had PSL's from 2 fan bases, the PSL values plummeted.

 

The Giants had that multi-year waitlist at the time so they figured demand would hold up the values.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

If they want it ready by 2026 I would guess the spring of 2023 is when we see shovels in the ground at the latest.

Something like that…yes. People comparing this to Rich Stadium are not being realistic. Rich was essentially a hole in the ground that they poured concrete on top of. I’m guessing this new stadium is going to be larger and way, way more complicated to both draw and build. 

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

So you think a new stadium with a lager capacity would have cheap tickets?  I'm a season ticket holder, and it's a fantasy that we have no problem filling up the current stadium.  There are games that I can't give away my tickets.  With a new, expensive, stadium in this market- a lower capacity makes sense.

 

Ok so legit question...why are you as a season ticket holder trying to get rid of tickets?  Is the weather a big factor in which games you don't want to go to?  And when you are struggling to find takers for the tickets, is it because its a bad weather game and you cant find someone as easily to take the tickets because not as many people want to sit in the miserable weather?

 

I don't want to turn the thread into a debate of dome vs outdoor, the decision has already been made to be an open air stadium again.  So no value in anyone discussing what is better choice.  But, I can't help but wonder if the problems of getting rid of your tickets is more weather related than related to how many people actually want to go to the game.  

 

I don't live in Buffalo, never have.  But as a fan, I still get the allure of being outdoors even in the cold for a football game.  But, if a team wanted to maximize the PSL's, the year round use of the stadium, and capacity...a dome or retractable roof would have made much more financial sense...or even like what they did with SoFi with the glass roof and open air sides making it kind of a hybrid indoor/outdoor stadium.  I personally thought a stadium like Allegiant that was built for the Raiders made perfect sense for Buffalo, but thats just my non-local opinion.  

 

None the less, still think 65,000+ seating makes more sense for this new open air stadium.  But it is what it is...they got their deal and their plan.  Just surprised they chose to build the smallest stadium in the NFL.  

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I mean looking at that chart, it suggests the stadium should be at least 65,000 seats, if not 68,000.  

 

I am not saying they should build an 80,000 seat stadium or anything, I am saying building the smallest seat stadium in the NFL makes no sense IMO.  Spending all this money and time for a stadium that has the least seats in the NFL is puzzling to me.  And I know they mentioned they could do another 5,000 standing, but that sucks...who wants to stand in the bad weather for 3 hours?  Especially if you had been tail gating all morning.  Do 3,000 more seats and make the standing area 2,000 people then.  

 

I mean talk about terrible tickets, lets stand on concrete for 3 hours in freezing weather after we tailgated for 3 hours.  

I’m wondering if the standing room provides for more areas for fans to congregate temporarily during the game. So people can hang out in a group similar to tailgating. Perhaps it’s not intended to be a whole game type thing. And it may be temperature controlled during later in the season. That doesn’t seem to be too difficult to accomplish. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

The most expensive public contribution for any stadium ever--by 100 million.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

I’m wondering if the standing room provides for more areas for fans to congregate temporarily during the game. So people can hang out in a group similar to tailgating. Perhaps it’s not intended to be a whole game type thing. And it may be temperature controlled during later in the season. That doesn’t seem to be too difficult to accomplish. 

Dallas and Los Angeles both offer a standing room end zone option. It’s somewhat of a gimmick but it’s a cheap thing to provide in the end zone, and can offer some design help if you’re putting a roof over the seats.

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ok so legit question...why are you as a season ticket holder trying to get rid of tickets?  Is the weather a big factor in which games you don't want to go to?  And when you are struggling to find takers for the tickets, is it because its a bad weather game and you cant find someone as easily to take the tickets because not as many people want to sit in the miserable weather?

 

I don't want to turn the thread into a debate of dome vs outdoor, the decision has already been made to be an open air stadium again.  So no value in anyone discussing what is better choice.  But, I can't help but wonder if the problems of getting rid of your tickets is more weather related than related to how many people actually want to go to the game.  

 

I don't live in Buffalo, never have.  But as a fan, I still get the allure of being outdoors even in the cold for a football game.  But, if a team wanted to maximize the PSL's, the year round use of the stadium, and capacity...a dome or retractable roof would have made much more financial sense...or even like what they did with SoFi with the glass roof and open air sides making it kind of a hybrid indoor/outdoor stadium.  I personally thought a stadium like Allegiant that was built for the Raiders made perfect sense for Buffalo, but thats just my non-local opinion.  

 

None the less, still think 65,000+ seating makes more sense for this new open air stadium.  But it is what it is...they got their deal and their plan.  Just surprised they chose to build the smallest stadium in the NFL.  

I'm not the person you quoted.. but I've been a season ticket holder and I've heard his argument for years

 

There's games I can't give my ticket away.. 

 

First, the pegulas really don't care..  that ticket was already bought from them.. they made money

 

Second, remember before the Patriots playoff game.. there were tons of threads here about how we can't sell a playoff game and we're going to be a laughing stock... Look how many tickets are on the market

 

And then 70,000 showed up

 

Buffalo Bills tickets are not investments.. it's not something you should buy to make money on.. because you're not going to

 

That doesn't mean we're not going to fill the stadium.. lowest attendance ever at the Ralph is 61,000 for a season.. with all the piss poor seasons

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Buffalo716

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

 

What does "Built For Buffalo" mean?

 

Vomitoriums in every section.

[SWATeam]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ok so legit question...why are you as a season ticket holder trying to get rid of tickets?  Is the weather a big factor in which games you don't want to go to?  And when you are struggling to find takers for the tickets, is it because its a bad weather game and you cant find someone as easily to take the tickets because not as many people want to sit in the miserable weather?

 

I don't want to turn the thread into a debate of dome vs outdoor, the decision has already been made to be an open air stadium again.  So no value in anyone discussing what is better choice.  But, I can't help but wonder if the problems of getting rid of your tickets is more weather related than related to how many people actually want to go to the game.  

 

I don't live in Buffalo, never have.  But as a fan, I still get the allure of being outdoors even in the cold for a football game.  But, if a team wanted to maximize the PSL's, the year round use of the stadium, and capacity...a dome or retractable roof would have made much more financial sense...or even like what they did with SoFi with the glass roof and open air sides making it kind of a hybrid indoor/outdoor stadium.  I personally thought a stadium like Allegiant that was built for the Raiders made perfect sense for Buffalo, but thats just my non-local opinion.  

 

None the less, still think 65,000+ seating makes more sense for this new open air stadium.  But it is what it is...they got their deal and their plan.  Just surprised they chose to build the smallest stadium in the NFL.  

Our group goes to a couple games a year and then sell the rest.  Don't have the energy for any more than that, it's a long day.

 

Weather is not a major factor for us, but it is THE issue when you are trying to sell them.  But I think it goes beyond just the weather during the game where a dome would help.  Driving in the weather sucks, especially with stadium traffic.  And tailgating isn't as pleasant either, a major factor for many.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Ned Flanders said:

RIP Hammer's Lot

 

Why? Sounds like Hammer's all set.

[The Wiz]

15 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

 

Undoubtably you mean RIT?  Rotate in Tightly.......81-85 was my sentence.

Hit the hammer on the head there bud.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Process said:

Lol good luck selling 50K PSLs to an open air stadium in OP

 

 

 

They'll have no problem. Raccuia said they would start at $1,000 which is way less than I expected. I will assume they will stretch payments out over a few years to cushion the blow.

[TBBills]

I can't wait to see what it looks like.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, TBBills said:

I can't wait to see what it looks like.

Bills website says we should have renderings in a few months 

 

very exciting. Josh will be 29 when the stadium opens. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

1 minute ago, TBBills said:

I can't wait to see what it looks like.

 

Agreed, I know they have renders that are pretty close to what we'll get. I want to see them now lol

[wiseman3]

I'd bet that the final product will be pretty similar to this...Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. It is also designed by Populous, 62k seats, seats covered but open air, sized for soccer. End zones will probably be a little different with standing zones, more open. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Tell that to the Buffalo Bills 13 and 1 all time record at home at the Ralph in the playoffs

 

Which always takes place in the winter

 

Statistically it's absolutely been an advantage to the bills

 

 

I know you like that stat but in fairness, almost all of those wins were clustered into a couple very brief periods in team history and games where they were clearly the superior team.    They haven't made the playoffs enough times and had games against SB contending opponents late in the playoffs to suffer inogminious defeats the way that Green Bay has in the Rodgers era, for instance.

 

And most of those Bills wins were in the early 90's which is long enough ago that intentionally excluding the home playoff losses in the 1960's in there is cherry picking.     They lost at home with a chance to play in the first SB.

 

 

[BillsfaninSB]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The most expensive public contribution for any stadium ever--by 100 million.

Construction costs are outrageous now.  Can’t go by a raw cost.  Needs to go by a some ratio.

 

Should have done this 6 or 7 years ago.  Would have saved hundreds of millions. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

Quote

How does it make sense to build a new stadium with LESS seats than the current stadium despite taking up 600,000 more square footage?  I mean it literally has a 66% bigger footprint than old stadium but 8000 less seats.  Especially for a team that sells out every home game regardless of weather or how good or bad the team is.

 

Well for one thing, we DON'T sell out every game. In fact selling tickets in December is damn hard, even with a playoff team.

 

Quote

8,000 less seats is almost 12% less seats than the current stadium.  That’s just gonna make tickets cost even more and harder to get.  

 

Fewer seats, more room to spread out.

 

Quote

Bills literally just made a deal to build the second smallest stadium in the NFL in terms of seating capacity.  Only Soldier field will have less seats (only 500 less seats.)

 

Buffalo is the smallest NFL market next to Green Bay.

 

Quote

This makes no sense, why have less Bills Mafia at each home game?  Best and loudest fan base in the league.

 

Because the trend is for more people to stay home and watch on TV.

 

2 hours ago, LanderPoke said:

It's amazing how these rich people don't have to pay for their stadiums

 

Rich people wouldn't build a stadium in WNY. There's not enough money here.

[beebe]

I went to games at SoFi and Allegiant this past year. Beautiful venues, but as a fan I felt completely disconnected from the game. Yes, it got noisy at times. But there's just sooo much extra space, and so much else to do and see on the concourses. I felt like I was watching a football game at the Mall of America. The game felt like an afterthought. Hopefully the Bills design can resemble something closer to Lambeau, Arrowhead or the new(ish) Seahawks Stadium, where the actual game remains front and center.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by beebe
edit

[Alphadawg7]

25 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

I’m wondering if the standing room provides for more areas for fans to congregate temporarily during the game. So people can hang out in a group similar to tailgating. Perhaps it’s not intended to be a whole game type thing. And it may be temperature controlled during later in the season. That doesn’t seem to be too difficult to accomplish. 

 

Which would be cool, but that then doesnt "increase" capacity above the 62,000 thats being reported.  

[Scott7975]

In case it wasn't posted yet...

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/what-bills-fans-need-to-know-about-the-new-bills-stadium-project

 

[Beast]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Buffalo is the smallest NFL market next to Green Bay.

 

Now, add in the Toronto area.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Because the trend is for more people to stay home and watch on TV.

 

 

What trend is this?  Every other new stadium has been 3,000 to 18,000 more seats than this one.  A few people have said this, but there isn't any evidence of this in what other teams have planned and done.  

[Lost]

5 minutes ago, beebe said:

I went to games at SoFi and Allegiant this past year. Beautiful venues, but as a fan I felt completely disconnected from the game. Yes, it got noisy at times. But there's just sooo much extra space, and so much else to do and see on the concourses. I felt like I was watching a football game at the Mall of America. The game felt like an afterthought. Hopefully the Bills design can resemble something closer to Lambeau, Arrowhead or the new(ish) Seahawks Stadium, where the actual game remains front and center.

 

 

 

Regarding your thoughts.   This was mentioned by PSE executive Ron Raccuia when asked by Chris Brown

 

"We're going to build the best football stadium we possibly can for the Buffalo Bills and our fans. It will be state of the art and will have a great deal of modern amenities that we currently lack at Highmark Stadium. We do, however, want to maintain the intimacy, great sight lines and the amazing home field advantage and energy we currently have at Highmark Stadium. It will be a football specific stadium and we want to take advantage of all of the modern amenities, comfort, and technology available to us as we develop our plan with the architects."

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, wiseman3 said:

I'd bet that the final product will be pretty similar to this...Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. It is also designed by Populous, 62k seats, seats covered but open air, sized for soccer. End zones will probably be a little different with standing zones, more open. 

Haven't attended a game there but the last time we were in London we made it a point to take the train up to see the new stadium. It's super cool modern on the outside and resembles a space ship that landed in an old residential neighborhood.  There are little, brick row houses right across the street, and then you come upon this aluminum panel-clad flying saucer. In a word....WILD! 

[Buffalo716]

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I know you like that stat but in fairness, almost all of those wins were clustered into a couple very brief periods in team history and games where they were clearly the superior team.    They haven't made the playoffs enough times and had games against SB contending opponents late in the playoffs to suffer inogminious defeats the way that Green Bay has in the Rodgers era, for instance.

 

And most of those Bills wins were in the early 90's which is long enough ago that intentionally excluding the home playoff losses in the 1960's in there is cherry picking.     They lost at home with a chance to play in the first SB.

 

 

Josh Allen still hasn't lost at home in the playoffs

 

But he's lost on the road 

 

There's a million things that determine the outcome of a game..  but being comfortable at home is huge

 

And again I maintain every quarterback coming here will throw worse than Josh Allen in the winter.. that's the advantage

 

Josh could throw the football when other teams can't.. and it's really hard to just run the ball in the playoffs and win 1 dimensionally 

 

That's the whole perk about having a strong arm quarterback..  a lesser quarterback can play the game of his life in a dome.. that's not going to happen outside probably

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Alphadawg7]

29 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Our group goes to a couple games a year and then sell the rest.  Don't have the energy for any more than that, it's a long day.

 

Weather is not a major factor for us, but it is THE issue when you are trying to sell them.  But I think it goes beyond just the weather during the game where a dome would help.  Driving in the weather sucks, especially with stadium traffic.  And tailgating isn't as pleasant either, a major factor for many.

 

Fair point about driving in the weather, not something us non-locals would think about ha.  

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Now, add in the Toronto area.

 

Okay. Now do that same add-on-neighboring-cities thing with every other NFL market. Buffalo is still near the bottom.

[nucci]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Okay. Now do that same add-on-neighboring-cities thing with every other NFL market. Buffalo is still near the bottom.

Also, doesn't the NFL use TV market ranking as opposed to population?

[Greg S]

14 minutes ago, beebe said:

I went to games at SoFi and Allegiant this past year. Beautiful venues, but as a fan I felt completely disconnected from the game. Yes, it got noisy at times. But there's just sooo much extra space, and so much else to do and see on the concourses. I felt like I was watching a football game at the Mall of America. The game felt like an afterthought. Hopefully the Bills design can resemble something closer to Lambeau, Arrowhead or the new(ish) Seahawks Stadium, where the actual game remains front and center.

 

 

 

I am sure the new stadium will be nice but I doubt it will have all the "bells and whistles" of those other stadiums. Buffalo is a football mad city. Fans want to tailgate before the game and then go watch the game. Having restaurants and bars in the stadium charging insane prices won't work. It doesn't work in NJ either as Jets/Giants fans prefer tailgating just like they do in Orchard Park. 

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, filthymcnasty08 said:

Word has it:

 

New stadium will look close to Tottenham Stadium with some modifications for snow.

 

 

 

 

 

Word does NOT have it. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Tottenham Stadium from the neighborhood.

 

 

[boater]

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

bad location.......should be downtown combined with a convention center

 

bad open air......should be retractable roof......shoveling out the snow in january playoffs will suck.....playing in bad weather is NOT an advantage

 

bad PSL's......only options will be expensive and extremely expensive

 

bad sightlines.....a soccer field is considerably WIDER......seats will be farther away

 

but other than that, this is great news

 

 

Ah.. but you contradict yourself.

 

You want a retractable roof stadium downtown with a convention center, by far the most expensive proposition possible, easily double the cost---yet you complain about the cost of PSLs.