Speculative article on friction between McDermott and Staff?

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

McKenzie in that sit down interview days after the game said he honestly didn’t know what happened. Said he tried to find out because he’s the gossip king on the roster or something like that, but was running into dead ends. It’s very likely he’s one of Dunne’s sources and it’s also likely STers didn’t know the defensive play calls and vice versa, so no players are entirely aware what happened - unless, possibly, if they were on the kickoff coverage and played those last two defensive plays. And those are the guys that aren’t talking.

 

Is there anyone who was on the field on all 3 snaps? I'd doubt they had any of the first team defense out there on STs. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Bottom line is if a head coach hasn’t won a Super Bowl much less get to one they are on the hot seat by year 6 or 7 regardless of how well they’ve done.  With Zimmer getting the ax, McDermott is currently the longest tenured head coach who hasn’t won a Super Bowl.  

 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/07/the-longest-tenured-head-coaches-in-the-nfl

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

This thread has gone about how i expected it to go.

 

We can predict which members will respond and about how they'll respond, too.  Very true to type.

 

Do you subscribe to Dunne?  What else does he say past the publicly accessible part?

 

 

 

 

[mannc]

Josh Allen just put together the two greatest seasons by a quarterback in Bills’ history and the team has nothing to show for it. Obviously, Josh has a long career ahead of him, but he might never have a better chance to win it all than he did this year…and eventually his ability to be a dual threat QB is going to fade and he won’t be quite as dynamic as he was at 25 years old.  Not that he’s “on the hot seat”, but I think there’s a lot of pressure on McDermott going into the 2022 season…

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Meh, maybe. I'm not sure how favourable a scheduling break it was being sent to Kansas City with the season on the line in 2017 after the Chargers debacle. 

I was looking more at 2021.

 

You lose to Jags but then get a nice rebound against Mike White/Jets

 

You lose to Colts, but then get a nice rebound against Trevor Simian/Saints

 

and then the 2 game losing streak was snapped playing against Panthers with a backup QB and all the starting WRs/starting RB out.

 

you play who you play…that’s fair.  I just think every time they had a tough loss they had a very easy game to follow up.

which helped avoid any sort of 3-4 game losing streak and potential internal strife spilling out into the media.

Edited March 4, 2022 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So let's just follow this to its conclusion.  If McDermott says that, then the X's and O's squad will be breaking down role/responsibilities for that call and looking at which players did or did not execute those responsibilities.  It will end by fingering specific players - which is something McDermott seems to want to avoid.

 

And given that we know players who got key penalties or visibly missed a block or the like in a playoff loss have LITERALLY GOTTEN DEATH THREATS from fans, I'm with McD here.

Exactly. I agree. I'm just saying what fans want.

 

Bruce Smith spoke with McDermott. Then when interviewed he said players were out of position. I'm pretty confident players didn't exactly know what they were supposed to do. That still is on the coach. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Bottom line is if a head coach hasn’t won a Super Bowl much less get to one they are on the hot seat by year 6 or 7 regardless of how well they’ve done.  With Zimmer getting the ax, McDermott is currently the longest tenured head coach who hasn’t won a Super Bowl.  

 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/07/the-longest-tenured-head-coaches-in-the-nfl

 

Zim had made the playoffs 3 times in 8 seasons. He knew this year was playoffs or bust. McDermott has made the playoffs every season he hasn't started a rookie Quarterback. 

 

Don't get me wrong there would come a point where if he had 3 or 4 more bad playoff losses you would have to think about moving on but if this team keeps making the playoffs and winning some playoff games he is going to survive a good while longer yet.  

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Exactly. I agree. I'm just saying what fans want.

 

Bruce Smith spoke with McDermott. Then when interviewed he said players were out of position. I'm pretty confident players didn't exactly know what they were supposed to do. That still is on the coach. 

 

It was on the coach. Nobody has said differently. Including the coach. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The Chiefs you say?

 

 

 

This is weird.  When I quote your post, I see a link to an Andy Reid comment

 

When I look at the post I see a link to a tweet about McDermott:

 

And wow, that man's eyes.  He's haunted by the end of that game, but you can tell he's also determined to process it and move on.

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Zim had made the playoffs 3 times in 8 seasons. He knew this year was playoffs or bust. McDermott has made the playoffs every season he hasn't started a rookie Quarterback. 

 

Don't get me wrong there would come a point where if he had 3 or 4 more bad playoff losses you would have to think about moving on but if this team keeps making the playoffs and winning some playoff games he is going to survive a good while longer yet.  

3 or 4 more?  I’d say 2 max.  Josh is too good.  You’d have to move on from McDermott if we don’t at least make a Super Bowl in next 2 years.  

Edited March 4, 2022 by BuffaloRebound

[Greg S]

Just now, mannc said:

Josh Allen just put together the two greatest seasons by a quarterback in Bills’ history and the team has nothing to show for it. Obviously, Josh has a long career ahead of him, but he might never have a better chance to win it all than he did this year…and eventually his ability to be a dual threat QB is going to fade and he won’t be quite as dynamic as he was at 25 years old.  Not that he’s “on the hot seat”, but I think there’s a lot of pressure on McDermott going into the 2022 season…

 

It will really come down to how well Beane can draft, how smart he is with FA, and how he manages the Cap. The Pats kept their window to win open for 20 years with the GOAT QB by making smart decisions with their roster. I don't think McDermott is on the hot seat but if they fail to reach the Super Bowl then I could see the seat getting warmer assuming no devastating injuries that kill their chances happen. Their is a lot of pressure next year on them no doubt.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

3 or 4 more?  I’d say 2 max.  

 

I suspect very strongly that you are wrong. 

[Cray51]

I had a call this morning with two senior leadership members practically yelling at each other about strategy direction and implementation.  

 

After the call, I connected with one of the leaders, and when we talked about the conversation the response was "That's the honest discussion we need to have more often".  

 

Friction drives honesty and honesty can either make or break a team.  I think Sean has shown to be very open to changing and taking others opinions to make himself better.

 

I wont worry about this until the on field product suffers drastically

[Santana]

1 hour ago, BillsMafi$ said:

 

Something tells me the friction is mainly between the defensive staff.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

McKenzie in that sit down interview days after the game said he honestly didn’t know what happened. Said he tried to find out because he’s the gossip king on the roster or something like that, but was running into dead ends. It’s very likely he’s one of Dunne’s sources and it’s also likely STers didn’t know the defensive play calls and vice versa, so no players are entirely aware what happened - unless, possibly, if they were on the kickoff coverage and played those last two defensive plays. And those are the guys that aren’t talking.

 

In that same sit-down interview, McKenzie said he got on the team plane after KC and started trash talking and finger-pointing the defense.  He also said he came in at 11 am and missed the general team meeting.

 

If I were a ST player or a defensive player, I wouldn't talk to McKenzie and get my brothers thrown under the bus by him publicly.

[Beast]

Did anyone really jump ship with Daboll?

 

I think this is a nothing story.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

https://www.golongtd.com/p/it-was-a-bad-bad-situation?s=r

 

“You preach accountability,” one player said. “But you don’t practice it.”

If true, this is about the most damning thing you can say about a leader other than incompetency.  A normal and healthy amount of friction is expected in a high pressure organization like the Bills.  But it bears watching to see if a lack of accountability is really an issue. 

 

I thought that the logical point of friction between Daboll and McDermott/Beane was the allocation of resources.  Premium draft picks and higher priced FAs flowed far more freely to the defensive side of the ball (which is McDermott’s) than the offensive side (Daboll’s).

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Santana said:

Something tells me the friction is mainly between the defensive staff.

I'm going to guess the friction was with OC, OL coach, and ST coach that are no longer here.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Santana said:

Something tells me the friction is mainly between the defensive staff.

 

That's what would make the most sense.  Good.

 

As for Farwell resigning and going to Jax, LOL!

[Lake Ontario]

Is it true Bass posted a video of himself squib kicking a day or few days after the game?  I didn't know that.  1. I'm sure it pissed off McDermott who wanted this locked down.  2. On the surface you have to accept that means he wasn't asked to kick it short.  That's a surprise to me.  I think if it was 100% on McD (the kick) he would own it.  Seems possible the ST coach either blew the communication or overruled the HC.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

Did anyone really jump ship with Daboll?

 

I think this is a nothing story.

 

One person left for a lateral move with Daboll - Bobby Johnson. The only other staff member he took Shea Tierney was a promotion from assistant QB coach to QB coach. They were also the only two offensive coaches on the staff in whose hiring Daboll had a hand. 

[BuffaloMatt]

1 hour ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

https://www.golongtd.com/p/it-was-a-bad-bad-situation?s=r

 

“You preach accountability,” one player said. “But you don’t practice it.”

I liked the read, but I for one couldn't say with certainty that the Bills would have one it all. I think they would have had a really good chance but they could have lost to either team. And if they lost to Cincy or the Rams the articles still would say "what if" just like the newspapers and websites were reporting in SF, GB, Tennessee and KC. Unless you win it all it's always gonna be "What if" . .. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

If true, this is about the most damning thing you can say about a leader other than incompetency.  A normal and healthy amount of friction is expected in a high pressure organization like the Bills.  But it bears watching to see if a lack of accountability is really an issue. 

 

I thought that the logical point of friction between Daboll and McDermott/Beane was the allocation of resources.  Premium draft picks and higher priced FAs flowed far more freely to the defensive side of the ball (which is McDermott’s) than the offensive side (Daboll’s).

With every head coach, doesn't matter the success, you can find a player that disliked him.

 

 

[Doc]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

One person left for a lateral move with Daboll - Bobby Johnson. The only other staff member he took Shea Tierney was a promotion from assistant QB coach to QB coach. They were also the only two offensive coaches on the staff in whose hiring Daboll had a hand. 

 

Yeah and Johnson was addition by subtraction while they replaced him and Tierney with better coaches.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah and Johnson was addition by subtraction while they replaced him and Tierney with better coaches.  

 

They definitely upgraded Johnson with Kromer. Have they actually replaced Tierney?

[jethro_tull]

friction good.  it is an emotional competitive high pressue game

[teef]

This is a big ole meh for me.  It does get some giddy though. 

[BarleyNY]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

With every head coach, doesn't matter the success, you can find a player that disliked him.

 

 

Sure you can.  Some people don’t even like ME.  But that’s not what we’re talking about.  Accountability is. Specifically the contention that McDermott preaches it, but does not personally take it.  I’m not taking this accusation as gospel, I’m just saying that it bears watching.  Seems reasonable to me. 

[finn]

1 hour ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

Does anyone else find stories that are completely based on anonymous quotes really annoying?  You can say anything that you want, and simply state that you have sources that didn't want to be named.  

Yeah, but I'll take them if the alternative is nothing at all. I for one want to know there might be resentment simmering among the staff and players. Speculation is fine, too, as long as it's made clear it's just speculation. For example, I think it's plain, albeit not a "fact," that the coaches blew that game. It wasn't the players, who played their hearts out, but the coaches. And it's likely there's a connection between that failure and Heath Farwell leaving for a parallel position. After that, it's pure speculation. Did Farwell not get the message to pooch kick? Did he get it and disobey? Did he get it and botch the communication to Bass? I noticed, by the way, that while McDermott didn't throw anyone under the bus specifically, he pushed the blame away from himself with his his "communication" comment, along with the "I'm ultimately responsible" line. 

 

So, speculating: I suspect McDermott was justifiably furious at Farwell for botching the kickoff and basically fired him. And he's justifiably furious at Frazier for his utter incompetence in the ensuing 13 seconds of play. And he's probably furious at himself for all sorts of reasons (not taking strategic timeouts, not overruling Frazier, etc.). Anger is a toxic emotion. He also has to deal with his players' anger, also justifiable. You come all this way and the coaches blow it? My worry is that he's ignoring the anger, clapping his way through it, so to speak. To be fair, it's a very difficult situation to handle. I would vote for complete candor: put it all out there and talk through it. I don't think that's McDermott's way. But that's just speculation.

[noacls]

44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So let's just follow this to its conclusion.  If McDermott says that, then the X's and O's squad will be breaking down role/responsibilities for that call and looking at which players did or did not execute those responsibilities.  It will end by fingering specific players - which is something McDermott seems to want to avoid.

 

And given that we know players who got key penalties or visibly missed a block or the like in a playoff loss have LITERALLY GOTTEN DEATH THREATS from fans, I'm with McD here.

Link?

[MJS]

1 hour ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

https://www.golongtd.com/p/it-was-a-bad-bad-situation?s=r

 

“You preach accountability,” one player said. “But you don’t practice it.”

So if they interviewed a bunch of players, why did they only include this one, single quote about this?

 

Seems like they got one player to say what they wanted and then filled the rest of the article with speculation.

[LABILLBACKER]

31 minutes ago, Lake Ontario said:

Is it true Bass posted a video of himself squib kicking a day or few days after the game?  I didn't know that.  1. I'm sure it pissed off McDermott who wanted this locked down.  2. On the surface you have to accept that means he wasn't asked to kick it short.  That's a surprise to me.  I think if it was 100% on McD (the kick) he would own it.  Seems possible the ST coach either blew the communication or overruled the HC.

His idea of owning it is repeating the same tired cliche.  "It starts with me and execution".  At this point I don't care anymore. It's not going to bring back 13 seconds. The players know there were coaching mistakes and all we can do now is hope they don't repeat?

[billsfan_34]

Oh it is definitely the off season 🤣

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

So if they interviewed a bunch of players, why did they only include this one, single quote about this?

 

Seems like they got one player to say what they wanted and then filled the rest of the article with speculation.

The unintentionally hilarious part of all this is how the whole thought process plays out. 

 

"McD preaches accountability, but doesn't practice it so I'm gonna be critical of that. But also, keep my name out of it because I don't want to be accountable for what I'm saying".

[BillsVet]

55 minutes ago, Rico said:

Can’t trust a total hack like Tyler Dunne to not make things up for hits to his website. Maybe Whaley was his source again.

 

When does the next Sammy Watkins puff piece drop?  LOL

 

36 minutes ago, Beast said:

Did anyone really jump ship with Daboll?

 

I think this is a nothing story.

 

Coaches not leaving doesn't mean there aren't issues.  If players are under contract and frustrated with the HC, that'd have nothing to do with what's going on. 

The NFL coaching fraternity talks among themselves and it's plausible that current and former coaches have made it known there's friction.  How much is another question. 

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, MJS said:

So if they interviewed a bunch of players, why did they only include this one, single quote about this?

 

Seems like they got one player to say what they wanted and then filled the rest of the article with speculation.

It very much reads to me as the one single even slightly controversial thing said over the course of an entire interview…and then making that the focus of your article.

[muppy]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

so another way of saying this that would make it a non-story is "insiders confirm theres a normal and healthy amount of friction amongst staff".... got it. moving on.

I haven't read all the replies posted so pardon if this was already stated. This article screams click bait to me ....he throws the  "juicy provocative lure"..in the offseason...after the horrific 13 seconds that will  be bantered about until  the end of time. ......stir that pot Yo..

 

pfft. The process means unity and focus to win not always agreeing.......what kind of kiss *** organization That would be ya know? Im agreeing this post is a big yawner .......

 

as far as McDermott is concerned he takes full responsibility in the media for what happened..He either learns from past mistakes and keeps it moving forward or Fails and we all suffer. I obviously hope for the former.

[Cray51]

I read the article from Dunne - it screams of little child syndrome more than anything.  McD took accountability for the choke job in the playoffs several times both immediately after and weeks after the game.  What more accountability does someone realistically expect?  Do we want him to go second by second pointing fingers at everyone/anyone who may have played a part in the breakdown?  Let's live in reality here.

 

When you write lines like "You can't clap your way through this loss" I dont really know how you can be taken seriously.  It's fandom writing and not journalism.

[Doc]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

They definitely upgraded Johnson with Kromer. Have they actually replaced Tierney?

 

I meant versus Tierney being the QB coach in Buffalo.  I don't think they've hired an assistant QB coach yet.  They may not.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

I've basically seen all of McD's interviews since then.  He includes himself in the failed execution and never once has named anyone else.

 

Coaches don't execute plays.

[Dr. K]

33 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It very much reads to me as the one single even slightly controversial thing said over the course of an entire interview…and then making that the focus of your article.

One of the quotes that article cites is a player saying "You don't get over a game like that."

 

Duh. No kidding Sherlock. 

 

This quote says nothing about McDermott or anybody else. The writer just sticks it into his innuendo so that in that context it LOOKS LIKE it supports his implications about McDermott. That's what I mean when I say this is written like a 1956 Hollywood Confidential gossip column. It's adolescent BS pretending to be journalism. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Dr. K