Rams Team Building Strategy Will It Be Duplicated or a Rareity

[corta765]

With the LA Rams winning the super bowl it brings up an interesting question as in sports in general whoever wins the title the rest of the league mimics to some extent the following season. The really interesting thing with the Rams is they in many ways put together a dream team and it actually worked. If you ever played Madden one of the fun things to do is just go all out with no regard to the cap or picks for the title. Now that is putting it loosely as even though the Rams don't have a 1st round pick until 2069 (I Kid), they are actually 2nd in total draft picks since 2017. So the Rams are using their 1st/2nd round picks for established talent, but they do have players they draft and develop. Kupp himself was a 3rd round pick (#69 no joke). With that said the Rams are not a perfect team as they do have some holes, but they basically bet that their talented players would cover those gaps and with Stafford as an upgrade at QB it could mask the flaws even greater. For a long time it has seemed that GM's value picks over anything and carefully planning their window. One of the things I appreciate with the Rams winning is it validates to some extent a just go for it and worry about the rest type strategy.

 

My question to you is if you think more GM's might be a bit more inclined to trade some future for immediate success or will the Rams stay an outlier?

[Steptide]

Dream teams rarely work, but with good coaching and the right players, ya I guess it can work. Thing is, I don't even think the rams are the best in the NFL. Their defense really won that game last night, and even as good as they played, they only won by 3 points. 

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, Steptide said:

Dream teams rarely work, but with good coaching and the right players, ya I guess it can work. Thing is, I don't even think the rams are the best in the NFL. Their defense really won that game last night, and even as good as they played, they only won by 3 points. 

Agree.  The Rams won last night because they played the Bengals.   I am not sure they beat the Bills or the Chiefs.

[PetermansRedemption]

Rarity. Almost never works out. IMO they were lucky to even be there in the first place. Should have had to get past the Packers instead of the 49ers. Then the 49ers gifted them the game with the dropped INT. Not only that, but they got to face the 3rd or 4th best team in the AFC. To top it all off, the future situation of the Rams isn’t exactly bright. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by PetermansRedemption

[Big Turk]

It only works if you can draft well in later rounds because you will have no first round picks and need to replenish your roster with cheaper players from the draft. Rams have done well in that regard, a lot of teams wouldn't.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Big Turk

[wjag]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

It only works if you can draft well in later rounds because you will have no first round picks and need to replenish your roster with cheaper players from the draft. Rams have done well in that regard, a lot of teams wouldn't.

 

If your goal is to be one and done, sure.  The Rams will be in purgatory for some time to come.  But the trophy on their home field sure looks nice in the trophy case.

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Rarity. Almost never works out. IMO they were lucky to even be there in the first place. Should have had to get past the Packers instead of the 49ers. Then the 49ers gifted them the game with the dropped INT. Not only that, but they got to face the 3rd or 4th best team in the AFC. To top it all off, the future situation of the Rams isn’t exactly bright. 

 

They went all in for the Lombardi this year and it paid off. But tough times are definitely coming for them. I don't think they will care as they got their championship.

[Matt_In_NH]

What would the take be in the Bengals held on and won the game.  You should draft and sign mostly lower priced FA's and rarely trade your pics?  In short, the Rams went for it and it worked out for them.  But it did not have to.  Generally teams that have signed/traded for superstars have not had SB success.  I dont think there will be a huge movement towards this approach. However, with younger coaches and GM's I think we will see more player movement than in the past.  I dont expect the Bills to take this approach on scale the Rams did which I know will be disappointing to many.

 

I think the Bills need to be careful to not give too many moderate contracts to average-ish players.

[T master]

17 minutes ago, corta765 said:

With the LA Rams winning the super bowl it brings up an interesting question as in sports in general whoever wins the title the rest of the league mimics to some extent the following season. The really interesting thing with the Rams is they in many ways put together a dream team and it actually worked. If you ever played Madden one of the fun things to do is just go all out with no regard to the cap or picks for the title. Now that is putting it loosely as even though the Rams don't have a 1st round pick until 2069 (I Kid), they are actually 2nd in total draft picks since 2017. So the Rams are using their 1st/2nd round picks for established talent, but they do have players they draft and develop. Kupp himself was a 3rd round pick (#69 no joke). With that said the Rams are not a perfect team as they do have some holes, but they basically bet that their talented players would cover those gaps and with Stafford as an upgrade at QB it could mask the flaws even greater. For a long time it has seemed that GM's value picks over anything and carefully planning their window. One of the things I appreciate with the Rams winning is it validates to some extent a just go for it and worry about the rest type strategy.

 

My question to you is if you think more GM's might be a bit more inclined to trade some future for immediate success or will the Rams stay an outlier?

 

 

It all depends on the outcome of getting those players wasn't that what the Saints had done & look where they are right now even the coach jumped ship because of the hell they will be going through for the next couple of years .

 

With any of it you need a little luck if Brees hadn't hurt his thumb or had a call go their way they could have added another trophy but luck didn't go their way & if the Rams hadn't had a couple of things go their way it could be different to so all that said I'm not sure what is the best way to go about it .

Edited February 14, 2022 by T master

[Matt_In_NH]

6 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

They went all in for the Lombardi this year and it paid off. But tough times are definitely coming for them. I don't think they will care as they got their championship.

I assume you are referring to the cap, there are some here who think it means nothing.

[Mark Vader]

8 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

They went all in for the Lombardi this year and it paid off. But tough times are definitely coming for them. I don't think they will care as they got their championship.

This is similar to the Buccaneers when they won their first Super Bowl.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Mark Vader

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

What would the take be in the Bengals held on and won the game.  You should draft and sign mostly lower priced FA's and rarely trade your pics?  In short, the Rams went for it and it worked out for them.  But it did not have to.  Generally teams that have signed/traded for superstars have not had SB success.  I dont think there will be a huge movement towards this approach. However, with younger coaches and GM's I think we will see more player movement than in the past.  I dont expect the Bills to take this approach on scale the Rams did which I know will be disappointing to many.

 

I think the Bills need to be careful to not give too many moderate contracts to average-ish players.

 

It will be interesting to see what Beane does this offseason. The Bills will be one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl. But there are issues that need fixing mostly on defense if they are going to win it all.

2 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

I assume you are referring to the cap, there are some here who think it means nothing.

 

And draft picks. Didn't they give up a lot to acquire the players that they did?

[Warcodered]

22 minutes ago, corta765 said:

With the LA Rams winning the super bowl it brings up an interesting question as in sports in general whoever wins the title the rest of the league mimics to some extent the following season. The really interesting thing with the Rams is they in many ways put together a dream team and it actually worked. If you ever played Madden one of the fun things to do is just go all out with no regard to the cap or picks for the title. Now that is putting it loosely as even though the Rams don't have a 1st round pick until 2069 (I Kid), they are actually 2nd in total draft picks since 2017. So the Rams are using their 1st/2nd round picks for established talent, but they do have players they draft and develop. Kupp himself was a 3rd round pick (#69 no joke). With that said the Rams are not a perfect team as they do have some holes, but they basically bet that their talented players would cover those gaps and with Stafford as an upgrade at QB it could mask the flaws even greater. For a long time it has seemed that GM's value picks over anything and carefully planning their window. One of the things I appreciate with the Rams winning is it validates to some extent a just go for it and worry about the rest type strategy.

 

My question to you is if you think more GM's might be a bit more inclined to trade some future for immediate success or will the Rams stay an outlier?

It'll be a rarity, you actually have to be in a position to do it. Things lined up nice for them in being able to trade away their firsts for great players leaving bad teams at the right time.

[First Round Bust]

rams strength is a young innovative coach who has been to the big game twice already and has an extensive coaching tree of assistants now head coaches and he keeps on winning !

 

he is able to take a mediocre to slightly above average qb and raise his game, (and save momey and picks in not having a super start qb to carry the team) they over-invest in the skill D positions (which the Bills seem to do) but it seems to pay, add the LA-LA-LAND sunshine and glamour appeals to vet free agents to add quality depth for the championship run...could that happen in Buffalo ?

 

Their warts are burning high draft picks, a soon to be 41 year-old LT, a punter is 11th on your pay scale ?,  and are 10M over the 2022 cap, but that is the cost of winning.

 

Stafford does not make to the SB if he is Bills, Chefs, Packers or Bengals qb, but now he has a ring, the game-winning-drive and TD pass in a super bowl which everybody wants !!!   

 

 

[Mark Vader]

3 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

I assume you are referring to the cap, there are some here who think it means nothing.

I don't think that the salary cap means nothing, but I do subscribe to the idea that it is a myth.

 

Over the years we have seen teams get into "salary cap hell", and then all of a sudden they are fine, and they are able to still sign players.

 

Now you need the right people in your front office who are experts at manipulating the cap, and know how to structure contracts, and fortunately we have that type of front office.

 

Last year's reduction of the cap hurt the Bills, and that was beyond our control, which is why we have very little cap room right now, but I believe that will change.

 

Also, if you look at the big picture, the Bills are currently projected to be over $60 million under the cap in 2023, and that's with the first year of Josh Allen's big contract. Money is not that big of an issue for the Bills going forward.

[corta765]

25 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Dream teams rarely work, but with good coaching and the right players, ya I guess it can work. Thing is, I don't even think the rams are the best in the NFL. Their defense really won that game last night, and even as good as they played, they only won by 3 points. 

 

Sadly in sports rarely does the best team actually win. Circumstance and luck drive many champions.

[NewEra]

It’ll be an extreme rarity for a team to have Donald, Miller and Floyd type pass rushers on one team. 

[bigduke6]

well,  they won a SB.   luck,  timing,  hell even the refs can make a team miss out or win.   they mortgaged the future for this title.   it will eventually come time to pay that mortgage off.   we shall see if its harder to pay for this win than they expect.

[corta765]

23 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

It only works if you can draft well in later rounds because you will have no first round picks and need to replenish your roster with cheaper players from the draft. Rams have done well in that regard, a lot of teams wouldn't.

 

That is kinda where I am. The Rams are unique because the have the best DT, top 5 CB, great pass rusher Von Miller, and some good role players like Leonard Floyd. You can lack depth when your top guys are that good and elevate the other guys.

 

The Bills have the CB and Milano is a really good LB, but I do not think they could sellout the same way as their pass rush just isn't as dynamic. With that said I am all for trading a high draft pick this year for a Cam Jordan or top pass rusher. I just don't see Beane doing that yearly, he is wayyy too future driven.

[FilthyBeast]

There will certainly be teams more inclined to mortgage their future for short term success given the 2021 Rams story.

 

But despite all the 'star power' there was nothing truly impressive about the Rams this year and outside of blowing out a struggling Cardinals team in the first round, they could have easily lost every other game including the SB last night if a few plays go the other way as all were very close one score games including having to come from behind in the final minutes to win both the NFC championship and SB.

 

I still think at the end of the day having a true star player on defense matters and if the Bills do try to mimic what the Rams did this year and take any big swings it must be for a dominant pass rusher.

[corta765]

18 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

What would the take be in the Bengals held on and won the game.  You should draft and sign mostly lower priced FA's and rarely trade your pics?  In short, the Rams went for it and it worked out for them.  But it did not have to.  Generally teams that have signed/traded for superstars have not had SB success.  I dont think there will be a huge movement towards this approach. However, with younger coaches and GM's I think we will see more player movement than in the past.  I dont expect the Bills to take this approach on scale the Rams did which I know will be disappointing to many.

 

I think the Bills need to be careful to not give too many moderate contracts to average-ish players.

 

One of the things I appreciate with the Rams is the contracts they gave on defense or moves made were literally to guys who were top 5 positionally ie Donald, Ramsey, Whiteworth, etc.. I would rather pay a few top guys then have a bunch of moderate contracts. The talent for the top players gives you greater margins to win with then a collection of slightly above average players.

[clearwater cadet]

I thinks the trades are good, but players need to be on board with the idea as well to some degree.  Seems like accepting a trade to LA is more desirable then some places.

[hondo in seattle]

I think Beane (and McD) are looking for sustained success.

The more times you get into the playoffs, the greater the likelihood that you make a run all the way to the SB.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

With the LA Rams winning the super bowl it brings up an interesting question as in sports in general whoever wins the title the rest of the league mimics to some extent the following season. The really interesting thing with the Rams is they in many ways put together a dream team and it actually worked. If you ever played Madden one of the fun things to do is just go all out with no regard to the cap or picks for the title. Now that is putting it loosely as even though the Rams don't have a 1st round pick until 2069 (I Kid), they are actually 2nd in total draft picks since 2017. So the Rams are using their 1st/2nd round picks for established talent, but they do have players they draft and develop. Kupp himself was a 3rd round pick (#69 no joke). With that said the Rams are not a perfect team as they do have some holes, but they basically bet that their talented players would cover those gaps and with Stafford as an upgrade at QB it could mask the flaws even greater. For a long time it has seemed that GM's value picks over anything and carefully planning their window. One of the things I appreciate with the Rams winning is it validates to some extent a just go for it and worry about the rest type strategy.

 

My question to you is if you think more GM's might be a bit more inclined to trade some future for immediate success or will the Rams stay an outlier?

 

1 hour ago, wjag said:

 

If your goal is to be one and done, sure.  The Rams will be in purgatory for some time to come.  But the trophy on their home field sure looks nice in the trophy case.

 

Agree.  Think it will take a couple of years to decide based on what the Rams do in the next 2 to 3 seasons.  Recall reading an article about 3 weeks ago listing the top 50 potential FA available.  The Rams, Chiefs, and Bucs must have easily had a dozen between them on the list.  Add in that the Rams also don't have many draft picks sounds like a recipe for disaster.  They also have an aging QB, plus a couple others who are mulling retirement.

 

So if the Rams can figure out how to retool or resign many of these guys, then may be more duplicated.  If they fall apart, then likely not. 

 

Lets throw a conspiracy theory out there.   Do wonder if the plan came from up on high as in Kronke.  LA hasn't exactly been a great city for fan base.  Not sure how ticket sales have gone since the Rams returned, but did they do this to lock in season ticket sales to help pay for his share of the stadium he just built?

[Greg S]

Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

Agree.  Think it will take a couple of years to decide based on what the Rams do in the next 2 to 3 seasons.  Recall reading an article about 3 weeks ago listing the top 50 potential FA available.  The Rams, Chiefs, and Bucs must have easily had a dozen between them on the list.  Add in that the Rams also don't have many draft picks sounds like a recipe for disaster.  They also have an aging QB, plus a couple others who are mulling retirement.

 

So if the Rams can figure out how to retool or resign many of these guys, then may be more duplicated.  If they fall apart, then likely not. 

 

Lets throw a conspiracy theory out there.   Do wonder if the plan came from up on high as in Kronke.  LA hasn't exactly been a great city for fan base.  Not sure how ticket sales have gone since the Rams returned, but did they do this to lock in season ticket sales to help pay for his share of the stadium he just built?

 

Even though LA isn't a great football market I don't think they will have trouble selling out the stadium. It seemed like every Rams and Chargers game had a decent amount of visiting fans. I imagine that will always be the case as a road trip to LA will always be a popular. I can't wait to see the Bills there next season. I bet at least half the crowd will be wearing Bills blue.

[LABILLBACKER]

As far as giving up 1st & 2nd round picks for proven impact players, I say absolutely. But that still doesn't navigate us away from foolish coaching. 

[Don Otreply]

Most teams that have gone the same route as the rams have failed in their quest, for a while there it looked like the rams were going to fail as well, but their offense scored enough points to win, and their defense had the key stops when it mattered the most, cough cough…, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

With the LA Rams winning the super bowl it brings up an interesting question as in sports in general whoever wins the title the rest of the league mimics to some extent the following season. The really interesting thing with the Rams is they in many ways put together a dream team and it actually worked. If you ever played Madden one of the fun things to do is just go all out with no regard to the cap or picks for the title. Now that is putting it loosely as even though the Rams don't have a 1st round pick until 2069 (I Kid), they are actually 2nd in total draft picks since 2017. So the Rams are using their 1st/2nd round picks for established talent, but they do have players they draft and develop. Kupp himself was a 3rd round pick (#69 no joke). With that said the Rams are not a perfect team as they do have some holes, but they basically bet that their talented players would cover those gaps and with Stafford as an upgrade at QB it could mask the flaws even greater. For a long time it has seemed that GM's value picks over anything and carefully planning their window. One of the things I appreciate with the Rams winning is it validates to some extent a just go for it and worry about the rest type strategy.

 

My question to you is if you think more GM's might be a bit more inclined to trade some future for immediate success or will the Rams stay an outlier?

 

If anything, I think it shows that the draft is a crap shoot.  Is there a better chance that you hit on that 2nd or 3rd round pick?  Or a better chance that the proven veteran that you trade for makes a big impact?   What good is a second round draft pick if you get Zay Jones, Cody Ford, or AJ Epinesa?

Edited February 14, 2022 by JohnNord

[TheFunPolice]

I wouldn't mind seeing it here and there.

 

for example, if the Bills traded a 1st round pick for a DE who could actually make plays in big moments like a Von Miller that would be cool!

Edited February 14, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Don Otreply]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Picture a Rams like approach with Josh Allen as your QB…. Nobody is beating you.

And that right there is why most teams fail when going that route, they generally don’t have the QB to make it happen,  or the buy in from the players they sign, but if we had the Rams defense we would be celebrating a Super bowl victory, but alas…., we don’t.

 

Go Bills!!!

[TheFunPolice]

I wouldn't mind trading for a superstar type RB either. We need SPEED and playmaking in that spot, as much as I do still like Singletary. 

 

Singletary paired with a speedster and we're set at RB. 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

Over the years we have seen teams get into "salary cap hell", and then all of a sudden they are fine, and they are able to still sign players.

 

This is simply not true.   Have you heard the term "cap casualty", its not a myth.  The Saints have had to let good talent go several times over the years, as have all teams.  Last year they were in a terrible position, made a bunch of moves, lots of releases and restructures.  And now they are in the same position again this year.  They were not able to "sign all their guys".   For instance during their run, they had to let their All Pro Guard and TE go in one offseason as one example, moves they would have liked to not have had to do.

 

https://www.nola.com/sports/saints/article_7144f39e-8671-11eb-b0ae-4788896c6439.html#:~:text=The first move the Saints,was to restructure Brees' deal.&text=Brees' cap hit was originally,veteran minimum of %241.075 million.

[msw2112]

42 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I think Beane (and McD) are looking for sustained success.

The more times you get into the playoffs, the greater the likelihood that you make a run all the way to the SB.

This is the Bills philosophy and it's probably a good one.  Among other things, there is some level of luck involved.  For example, if Butker misses the 49 yard FG at the end of regulation, the Bills would have moved on.  I won't delve too deep into the subsequent kickoff and 13 seconds, but if one variable changes there, the Bills move on.  That's probably not luck, but the margins of victory are razor thin.

 

Had the SF defensive back not have dropped the sure interception right in his hands at the end of the NFC Championship game, the Rams would have been done.  Had the refs not called some of the close PI/defensive holdings that they did on the Rams' final drive, they may have been done.

 

The Rams were not the 85 Bears who dominated their way through the playoffs.  They had a narrow escape against the 49ers and beat a not-so-great Bengals team by 3.  It could have very easily gone the other way.

 

Because of all of the variables being involved, I would argue that getting as many shots as you can is the better philosophy than loading up for one shot.  It's probably better to be an 8 or 9 every year than a 10 one time, as there are too many variables that can cause the 10 to lose.  The Rams loaded up for the one shot and they hit, but the chances of that happening again are very slim.  I guess we'll have to see how they fare over the next decade.

 

 

[jahnyc]

I do worry about big market teams like LA being able to sign players at a discount or players forcing a trade/release because players want to be there.  This can result in a competitive advantage.  Josh Allen should attract talent, but I don't know if it will be enough, particularly since we will be competing with some other good QBs that also can attract talent (i.e., Mahomes, Herbert, Burrows and Rogers).

[ngbills]

Last two super bowl winners - traded/signed a vet legit QB. Prior to that is has been a bunch of Mahomes, Brady, Manning, etc. You either have a franchise QB or you do whatever you need to have one for the season. 

[corta765]

46 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

 

If anything, I think it shows that the draft is a crap shoot.  Is there a better chance that you hit on that 2nd or 3rd round pick?  Or a better chance that the proven veteran that you trade for makes a big impact?   What good is a second round draft pick if you get Zay Jones, Cody Ford, or AJ Epinesa?

 

100%. IMO what the Rams were able to prove is that teams overvalue the draft vs actual production. Look at the impact Diggs had by trading a 1st, sure maybe Buffalo drafts Jefferson but Diggs has been a homerun trade. I don't know that teams will be as aggressive as the Rams have been, but I would expect more teams to be a little looser with their draft picks as a way to ensure getting players who have a guaranteed level of production. The real advantage with draft picks is cost control for a certain period of time where you basically are paying pennies on the dollar for good talent. The thing is your maybe hitting on 30-40% of your draft picks so are you really coming that far ahead?

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, corta765 said:

With the LA Rams winning the super bowl it brings up an interesting question as in sports in general whoever wins the title the rest of the league mimics to some extent the following season. The really interesting thing with the Rams is they in many ways put together a dream team and it actually worked. If you ever played Madden one of the fun things to do is just go all out with no regard to the cap or picks for the title. Now that is putting it loosely as even though the Rams don't have a 1st round pick until 2069 (I Kid), they are actually 2nd in total draft picks since 2017. So the Rams are using their 1st/2nd round picks for established talent, but they do have players they draft and develop. Kupp himself was a 3rd round pick (#69 no joke). With that said the Rams are not a perfect team as they do have some holes, but they basically bet that their talented players would cover those gaps and with Stafford as an upgrade at QB it could mask the flaws even greater. For a long time it has seemed that GM's value picks over anything and carefully planning their window. One of the things I appreciate with the Rams winning is it validates to some extent a just go for it and worry about the rest type strategy.

 

My question to you is if you think more GM's might be a bit more inclined to trade some future for immediate success or will the Rams stay an outlier?

It’s what a lot of teams do when their window is closing.  The Rams needed some pieces, including a QB.  They pushed in.  New Orleans pushed in at then end of Brees’ career and Philadelphia did it when their roster was aging and they were coming off a SB win.  It didn’t work out well for either.  Those two teams are dealing with the aftermath now and the Rams will be soon.  It’s easier to handle the rebuilding years if your team wins it all, but there’s no guarantee.  The ugly rebuilding years are the price of trying. 

[Chandler#81]

This morning, the Champion Rams find themselves with 25 Unrestricted Free Agents and are STILL $8Million over the Cap. They likely won’t even be in the playoffs next season. Its Piper-paying time in ‘Nawlins’ as well. It’s the other side of the coin when you push ALL your chips in. Sean Payton is getting out, rather than go full rebuild and there’s rumblings Sean McVay is contemplating it as well. ‘Here ya go, Fans! See Ya!’

 

The new model? I don’t think so. Too risky and completely debilitating to the team and it’s Fanbase in the aftermath.

jmo

 

 

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

I think Beane (and McD) are looking for sustained success.

The more times you get into the playoffs, the greater the likelihood that you make a run all the way to the SB.

 

Every franchise wants this in theory, but after four straight superbowl losses and 17 years of utter failure before the current regime what hardcore Bills fan out there wouldn't take the Rams approach if it meant at least one guaranteed SB win even if there was another 5 - 10 years of sucking that followed in the years after?

[Solomon Grundy]

IMO, if I had a roster comprised like the current Bills roster I would look for a difference making defensive player. Offer a 1-3 year deal with team options. In the Super Bowl last night those disruptors(Miller, Donald) showed up