Daboll a consideration for Jags HC

[TheyCallMeAndy]

[Jerome007]

I was a big Daboll fan till this year. He developed Josh really well, got a lot of great plays in the pass game, not conservative. But it really seems like he plateaued out. Not helping the OL, super vanilla run game, stubbornness in not calling run plays, screens, moving the pocket, etc. Not using designed QB runs vs the Cheats in that weather? I don't get it.

 

Chiefs only won in OT last night. Monster game by Kelce and Hill as usual, but it's not like the Chiefs  had it easy. Yet look at all the small tweaks they put almost every game. Last night great use of the FB for example. After so many years of HC/OC stability, yeah I expected a LOT more this year. The failures in  the schemes are well known yet not truly corrected, as if ego was in the way.

 

If Daboll stays, fine. If he goes, fine. While last year I was thinking that the Pegulas should roll back the money truck and dump some cash in his driveway.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Jerome007

[Nihilarian]

19 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

If Daboll stays, fine. If he goes, fine. While last year I was thinking that the Pegulas should roll back the money truck and dump some cash in his driveway.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Kirby Jackson let it be known that Daboll is currently one of the highest paid OC's in the NFL. 

 

 

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

I don't know that I agree with this. McD is a huge believer in teaching and coaching players up. Putting them in ths best situation to be successful. Success starts at coaching. 

 

As bad as this line has played it times it's been a mixed bag as to why. While talent has been an issue we also have seen both tackles regress (while we believe Dawkins is due to COVID McD has downplayed that angle when asked). Feliciano, while never an All-Pro has seemed to take a step back as well. Ford, who McD calls a "good football player" has struggled. Morse has been the only starter from last year that has even somewhat stayed the same. 

 

More importantly we really haven't seen Daboll adjust well to the struggles upfront. His idea of still spreading it out and giving little help to this tackles (does he even know it's legal for a RB or TE to "chip" a DE on the way to their route?) has been a disaster at times. 

 

It's like when you cook dinner. Would be great to have prime rib every night. However, sometimes when you open the fridge and see ground beef you have to make due and still create a tasty meal. Seems like all Daboll knows how to cook is Hamburger Helper. And while that can be ok once in a while (Cheeseburger Mac is the best IMO) he serves the same dish night after night...even though not one eats it.

You can’t help the interior of the line on run plays bro. They either push or get pushed. It does not matter what run scheme we do.

Edited December 17, 2021 by FireChans

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You can’t help the interior of the line on run plays bro. They either push or get pushed. 

You actually can. First off, a true FB on the roster would be a good thing. A game such as the Pats game we didn't even have one active due to injury. That would help. Running draws, traps and counters helps slow down an interior rush as well. Not calling the slow developing RPOs and run options would help.

 

If your guys are getting overpowered inside...slide the blocking assignment so you don't have your guys trying to square up and block...instead your blocker comes from the shoulder and slides the defender out of the play.

 

These are all fairly common tactics to help an overpowered IOL...many of which we simply do not attempt.

Edited December 17, 2021 by No Place To Hyde

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

You actually can. First off, a true FB on the roster would be a good thing. A game such as the Pats game we didn't even have one active due to injury. That would help. Running draws, traps and counters helps slow down an interior rush as well. Not calling the slow developing RPOs and run options would help.

 

If your guys are getting overpowered inside...slide the blocking assignment so you don't have your guys trying to square up and block...instead your blocker comes from the shoulder and slides the defender out of the play.

 

These are all fairly common tactics to help an overpowered IOL...many of which we simply do not attempt.

I don’t think you understand how bad our run blocking is. Running slower developing plays has a high chance for us to lose 4 yards in the backfield. Do you want to see Zack Moss trying to get back to the LoS on a counter? No thanks. It won’t work

and it will only make our offense worse by setting us up for 2nd and 14.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Please oh please 

 

x 100

 

Can he start Monday?

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I don’t think you understand how bad our run blocking is. Running slower developing plays has a high chance for us to lose 4 yards in the backfield. Do you want to see Zack Moss trying to get back to the LoS on a counter? No thanks. It won’t work

and it will only make our offense worse by setting us up for 2nd and 14.

Which is why I said not calling the slow plays would help.

 

And who is talking about Moss? Guy shouldn't be active again. You said there is no way to help...I literally pointed out about 6 things they could do to help...because I realize how bad the blocking is. 

[FireChans]

Just now, No Place To Hyde said:

Which is why I said not calling the slow plays would help.

 

And who is talking about Moss? Guy shouldn't be active again. You said there is no way to help...I literally pointed out about 6 things they could do to help...because I realize how bad the blocking is. 

Counters are slow developers my guy. So are draws. 
 

You basically said they can call these slow developing plays but they also shouldn’t call slow developing plays.

 

Also, Daboll can’t sign a FB rn.

 

Like most things, it’s a roster construction issue, not a scheme issue.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 hours ago, DallasBillsFan1 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/urban-meyer-fired-doug-pederson-josh-mcdaniels-top-candidates-to-become-next-jaguars-head-coach/

 

I don’t see McDaniels going anywhere. The Hoodie will be passed on at some point. 

[thenorthremembers]

I dont see Daboll being a serious candidate this coaching cycle.   His creativity just hasn't been there this year.   Relied way too much on having Josh at QB.    Pederson would be a fantastic hire for the Jags.   If they were more stable in their Front Office, and the roster was a bit more put together I'd say go and get Leftwhich, but they need someone who knows how to be a head coach in the NFL after the Meyer debacle.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

If I'm not mistaken, Kirby Jackson let it be known that Daboll is currently one of the highest paid OC's in the NFL. 

 

 

Any word from Kirby?

[Patrick Duffy]

Lol that sounds like something the Jags would do...whatever the case turns out to be, I welcome the departure myself.

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Counters are slow developers my guy. So are draws. 
 

You basically said they can call these slow developing plays but they also shouldn’t call slow developing plays.

 

Also, Daboll can’t sign a FB rn.

 

Like most things, it’s a roster construction issue, not a scheme issue.

The blocking technique changes on counters and draws. The look is different. Defenders have to react to what they seem. It slows them down. This really isn't rocket science, my dude. 

 

I will agree on the issues being roster construction and will add that this regime values position versatility over the mastery of one position...leave the old adage that a jack of all trades is a master of none. 

[Dan]

I’ve been in the “continuity” bandwagon for Josh and the offense. And wanted Dabs to stay for that.  However, now, with Josh’s ascension to offensive leader and Dabol’s complete inability to develop a running game for 2 seasons, I have zero concerns about him leaving. Amd feel it could solve a difficult decision for McDermott.

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, SCBills said:

Doug Pederson seems like a home run hire to work with Lawrence.  
 

If not, I would think Daboll makes a lot of sense because they’re basically hiring someone for Trevor.   We can think whatever we want about the offense this year, but if I’m them, I see Josh Allen and rightly or wrongly will attribute some of that development to Daboll.  

 

14 hours ago, TheProcess said:

Daboll would be a good fit for them from working with and developing a young QB like Lawrence. Maybe the most accomplished on that list in that department. I guess you could argue Bienemy with Mahomes is as accomplished, but hard to separate that from Andy Reid. Something is off with Bienemy or else he’d have been hired by now. Pederson could be ok. How he handled the end of last year in Philly really damaged his credibility among players, but hard to argue with a SB ring. Caldwell is meh to me and McDaniels is a douche after what he did to the Colts (along with being a patriot). Although, I wouldn’t hate getting him out of the division. 

 

Pederson rode his hot backup QB to a SB win, then he pointed the nose of that franchise right into the ground, Wentz with him.

 

I don't see them hiring him, but Khan is another football moron/billionaire owner.  

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Pederson rode his hot backup QB to a SB win, then he pointed the nose of that franchise right into the ground, Wentz with him.

 

I don't see them hiring him, but Khan is another football moron/billionaire owner.  

 

The stories that I have heard about his culture in Philly would cause me to run a mile from him. It would be frying pan to fire for JAX. 

 

I actually think Pederson might make a great college coach though. Where you are THE man and have kids who need to do what you say to get where they wanna go. I know it is an odd thing to say about a SB winning Head Coach but I wouldn't even consider hiring him to another NFL HC job.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Uh oh here come all the anti-Jax-ers

[RobbRiddick]

15 hours ago, HOUSE said:

More Jaguar pain

 

 

 

 

They do it to themselves

 

[Watkins90]

16 hours ago, SCBills said:

Doug Pederson seems like a home run hire to work with Lawrence.  
 

If not, I would think Daboll makes a lot of sense because they’re basically hiring someone for Trevor.   We can think whatever we want about the offense this year, but if I’m them, I see Josh Allen and rightly or wrongly will attribute some of that development to Daboll.  

Doug Pederson is a horrible head coach who only won a Super Bowl because he had Jim Schwartz and Frank Reich as his assistants. 

[brianthomas]

14 hours ago, Utah John said:

I grew up in West Seneca at about the same time Daboll did.  Went to West Seneca East.  I think there was ONE black student in the entire school.  Not a diverse community.

ha same with me. I believe his last name was Jones & he played football of course, but i could be messing up the name. I've killed off a lot of those brain cells from back then. It always did feel a bit weird to me i remember. That we were like living in a bubble & it wasnt an accurate depiction of the world at large. But as time has gone on its become more diverse which is good. I know Daboll went to St Francis but with how small a community it is, maybe i crossed paths with him. Perhaps with you as well

[BillsVet]

To paraphrase Henny Youngman, take my offensive coordinator, please.  

 

Would kill two birds with one stone: ensuring Jacksonville continues to stink and, well, yeah. 

[finn]

9 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

I was a big Daboll fan till this year. He developed Josh really well, got a lot of great plays in the pass game, not conservative. But it really seems like he plateaued out. Not helping the OL, super vanilla run game, stubbornness in not calling run plays, screens, moving the pocket, etc. Not using designed QB runs vs the Cheats in that weather? I don't get it.

 

Chiefs only won in OT last night. Monster game by Kelce and Hill as usual, but it's not like the Chiefs  had it easy. Yet look at all the small tweaks they put almost every game. Last night great use of the FB for example. After so many years of HC/OC stability, yeah I expected a LOT more this year. The failures in  the schemes are well known yet not truly corrected, as if ego was in the way.

 

If Daboll stays, fine. If he goes, fine. While last year I was thinking that the Pegulas should roll back the money truck and dump some cash in his driveway.

 

I think it's hard to fault Daboll, just like it's hard to fault the running backs and McDermott, when the O-line is a jailbreak on virtually every down. For all we know, Daboll is dialing up fantastic plays that we never see because Allen has to improvise, again, or the backs get tackled behind the LOS, again. At some point, someone will write an article pointing out that never in NFL history has there been such a disparity of parts: excellence across the board--QB, RB, WR, TE, coaching, and the entire defense--with a single position that was so weak that it sunk all the other parts. 

 

Put another way, the Bills might have been undefeated quality if Beane had done what KC did and given the O-line top priority. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

I can see him being hired and working with Lawrence to develop him. It could be the best thing for everyone. 

[Beast]

The Bills just unleashed 24 second half points, and it should have been 28 with a victory, on the road against the defending champs.

 

Let's get rid of Daboll.

[Nihilarian]

5 minutes ago, Beast said:

Let's get rid of Daboll.

I concur! 

 

 

What happened in the first half...3 points to 24 and things looked hopeless while Allen under relentless pressure, sacked 3x.

 

Lots have commented that McD read the riot act to both his DC & OC at the half. Suddenly, the Bills found a run game with their crappy O line and RBs. That suddenly found run game allowed the line to give Allen time in the pocket. Something that we should have been seeing from the start of the season!!

 

Would that second half have happened with any other QB? A lot of Josh Allen heroics in that game and he came up limping. Excuse me for wanted to see Buffalo keep Allen in the pocket and let the RBs take the hits. 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

Doug Pederson is a horrible head coach who only won a Super Bowl because he had Jim Schwartz and Frank Reich as his assistants. 

 

Actually it was a lot more about Chip Kelly really bringing the RPO into prominence in the league,   training Nick Foles to be very good at running it.......... and of course whipping the Eagles roster into great physical shape and leaving more talent behind than people acknowledge.    His fingerprints are on that trophy more than those of Schwartz and Reich.   Pederson was the "player's coach" following the disciplinarian.   That's generally a good combo but like Wade Phillips following Bills Parcells........it can look great for a short time........but when you aren't an attention to detail coach......when it starts going bad it goes bad fast.  

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Actually it was a lot more about Chip Kelly really bringing the RPO into prominence in the league,   training Nick Foles to be very good at running it.......... and of course whipping the Eagles roster into great physical shape and leaving more talent behind than people acknowledge.    His fingerprints are on that trophy more than those of Schwartz and Reich.   Pederson was the "player's coach" following the disciplinarian.   That's generally a good combo but like Wade Phillips following Bills Parcells........it can look great for a short time........but when you aren't an attention to detail coach......when it starts going bad it goes bad fast.  

Disputable.

 

Lane Johnson and Zach Ertz are the only two talented players Chip acquired in his tenure that were on the SB run.

[Bookie Man]

Won't happen. We're not that lucky. 

[BADOLBILZ]

43 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Disputable.

 

Lane Johnson and Zach Ertz are the only two talented players Chip acquired in his tenure that were on the SB run.

 

I didn't say "acquired".

 

I've noticed that misreading and subsequently misrepresenting a point is a running theme with you over the years...........this then leads to other people assuming what you misrepresented was an actual point of contention etc..

 

The majority of the very top players on that 2017 Eagles roster had also played for....and trained under Chip Kelly.    Foles was just the latter of those two things........but the RPO stuff he learned in his 28 TD 2 INT season under Kelly was crucial to them actually upsetting NE in the SB.

 

Not that finding 2 All Pro's in 2 seasons is a particularly bad haul though.

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I didn't say "acquired".

 

I've noticed that misreading and subsequently misrepresenting a point is a running theme with you over the years...........this then leads to other people assuming what you misrepresented was an actual point of contention etc..

 

The majority of the very top players on that 2017 Eagles roster had also played for....and trained under Chip Kelly.    Foles was just the latter of those two things........but the RPO stuff he learned in his 28 TD 2 INT season under Kelly was crucial to them actually upsetting NE in the SB.

 

Not that finding 2 All Pro's in 2 seasons is a particularly bad haul though.

 

 

 

Well "leaving behind more talent than people acknowledge" isn't really a feather in his cap if he didn't acquire them lol.  Yes, I guess he DIDN'T trade away Kelce or Brooks or Peters or Fletcher Cox or Jenkins or Ertz or Johnson.  Meanwhile, he lost Maclin, traded McCoy for Kiko, and then subsequently threw a bunch of money at Demarco Murray and the oft-injured Ryan Matthews to replace him. Kudos to the Chipster. 

 

Most people probably don't acknowledge he left them with a lot of talent because that talent preceded him, and he did lose a CONSIDERABLE amount of talent.

 

Chip also got Ertz and Johnson year 1. In the next two years, he drafted Marcus Smith (who I had to google as I wasn't sure he was a real player), and Nelson Agholor with his first rounders. 

 

Absolutely Foles benefitted from his system experience, no doubt.

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Well "leaving behind more talent than people acknowledge" isn't really a feather in his cap if he didn't acquire them lol.  Yes, I guess he DIDN'T trade away Kelce or Brooks or Peters or Fletcher Cox or Jenkins or Ertz or Johnson.  Meanwhile, he lost Maclin, traded McCoy for Kiko, and then subsequently threw a bunch of money at Demarco Murray and the oft-injured Ryan Matthews to replace him. Kudos to the Chipster. 

 

Most people probably don't acknowledge he left them with a lot of talent because that talent preceded him, and he did lose a CONSIDERABLE amount of talent.

 

Chip also got Ertz and Johnson year 1. In the next two years, he drafted Marcus Smith (who I had to google as I wasn't sure he was a real player), and Nelson Agholor with his first rounders. 

 

Absolutely Foles benefitted from his system experience, no doubt.

 

It is when the narrative on TSW was that Kelly had left the roster bereft and set the team back 5 years.........and then after one season of developing a rookie QB later they were dominating the NFC in the 2017 season.    

 

Much of that was homers jumping to LeSean McCoy's defense.........but McCoy just wouldn't take the inside yards in Philly(or in his first year in Buffalo) so Chip had to dump him and his fat salary.    

 

The mistake was overpaying for the other RB's.   Combined they actually produced a better running game than McCoy had the year prior.......he actually lead the NFL in fewest yards per touch in his last season in Philly............ but Kelly vastly overpaid Murray and Matthews.   

 

As for all of the talent "preceding" him.........he took over a 4-12 team so you doth protest too much.  

 

He whipped them into shape.......often too their dislike........and won 10 games in both of his seasons with Philly.  

 

Again...........please be more thorough with the reading comprehension..........the straw man arguments created by not doing so are tiresome and pollute threads. 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

It is when the narrative on TSW was that Kelly had left the roster bereft and set the team back 5 years.........and then after one season of developing a rookie QB later they were dominating the NFC in the 2017 season.    

That's TSW.  They thought missing on a first round QB set a team back 5 years, despite, you know, getting a first rounder every year lol.

 

Fair enough though. I thought you were praising Kelly's team-building, of which I would vehemently disagree.

 

21 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

As for all of the talent "preceding" him.........he took over a 4-12 team so you doth protest too much.  

That 4-12 team absolutely HAD talent.  It was a year removed from Reid's "dream team." 

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, RunJoshRun said:

I've posted this before - - I don't think Daboll WANTS to be a HC in the NFL.  He knows the game too well!

What makes you think that?

[billsfan714]

9 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I concur! 

 

 

What happened in the first half...3 points to 24 and things looked hopeless while Allen under relentless pressure, sacked 3x.

 

Lots have commented that McD read the riot act to both his DC & OC at the half. Suddenly, the Bills found a run game with their crappy O line and RBs. That suddenly found run game allowed the line to give Allen time in the pocket. Something that we should have been seeing from the start of the season!!

 

Would that second half have happened with any other QB? A lot of Josh Allen heroics in that game and he came up limping. Excuse me for wanted to see Buffalo keep Allen in the pocket and let the RBs take the hits. 

Daboll, for as good as he is in the passing game, he's equally bad and unimaginative in the running game.  I think this line probably would like to run block more.   But they arent being coached up by Johnson.

[machine gun kelly]

This author has no idea, just making WAG’s from the likely candidates.  Khan needs to clean house and fire the GM too.  He has the money to pay for the best and they need a culture change.Peterson brought the crappy Eagles to a SB win, and was undermined along the way.

[JPP]

This guy cant put together a consistant offence and he's gonna be a HC??  No one is taking this guy....

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It is when the narrative on TSW was that Kelly had left the roster bereft and set the team back 5 years.........and then after one season of developing a rookie QB later they were dominating the NFC in the 2017 season.    

 

Much of that was homers jumping to LeSean McCoy's defense.........but McCoy just wouldn't take the inside yards in Philly(or in his first year in Buffalo) so Chip had to dump him and his fat salary.    

 

The mistake was overpaying for the other RB's.   Combined they actually produced a better running game than McCoy had the year prior.......he actually lead the NFL in fewest yards per touch in his last season in Philly............ but Kelly vastly overpaid Murray and Matthews.   

 

As for all of the talent "preceding" him.........he took over a 4-12 team so you doth protest too much.  

 

He whipped them into shape.......often too their dislike........and won 10 games in both of his seasons with Philly.  

 

Again...........please be more thorough with the reading comprehension..........the straw man arguments created by not doing so are tiresome and pollute threads. 

 

 

 

He had 3 seasons, not two. He was fired at 6-9. He was a bad NFL Head Coach.

[Weatherman]

14 hours ago, Beast said:

The Bills just unleashed 24 second half points, and it should have been 28 with a victory, on the road against the defending champs.

 

Let's get rid of Daboll.

How did they do in the first half and the last 5 games?  Pretty small sample size you’re using to make a point.  

Edited December 18, 2021 by Weatherman

[CircleTheWagons99]

33 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

How did they do in the first half and the last 5 games?  Pretty small sample size you’re using to make a point.  

Ill help, hows the REDZONE offense been all year?