Bills @ Bucs talk

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

McDermott needs to stop trying to make this team something it is not.  This team is all finesse players.  It is a team built to pass the ball and stop the pass.  No amount of forcing some archaic crap is going to change what these players are.  Just play to the damn strengths of the team.  Stop messing around with benching only certain players because they made a mistake.  Put the best players on the damn field and play some damn football.  The time for doing the crap they are trying to do is the off season and camp.  Not the middle of the season in a tight playoff race.  Get back to who you are, not who you want to be.

I agree with you, but why in the world would we "want to be" a run and stop the run team?  

 

There was talk today that Daboll may have been under pressure from McDermott to run, that's why he ran as much as he did in the MNF game, and in key circumstances.

 

My God, I hope that is not accurate.

 

 

[letsgoteam]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I agree with you, but why in the world would we "want to be" a run and stop the run team?  

 

There was talk today that Daboll may have been under pressure from McDermott to run, that's why he ran as much as he did in the MNF game, and in key circumstances.

 

My God, I hope that is not accurate.

 

 

Not saying your wrong, but where did you hear that about Daboll?

[zow2]

I think i was at the Bills last visit in Tampa. Can’t remember a more recent one? It was EJ Manuel against Mike Glennon and Glennon’s team won.  Slightly better QB’s this time around.

[HappyDays]

20 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We'll lose to TB and NE. And we'll barely beat Atl, Car & the Jest.

 

The way this year has gone I would expect us to go 3-2 with a point differential of +50.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

McDermott needs to stop trying to make this team something it is not.  This team is all finesse players.  It is a team built to pass the ball and stop the pass.  No amount of forcing some archaic crap is going to change what these players are.  Just play to the damn strengths of the team.  Stop messing around with benching only certain players because they made a mistake.  Put the best players on the damn field and play some damn football.  The time for doing the crap they are trying to do is the off season and camp.  Not the middle of the season in a tight playoff race.  Get back to who you are, not who you want to be.

Hard to argue with this

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Hard to argue with this

 

Actually, it's quite easy to argue with this, and people have laid out the arguments multiple times in multiple threads.

 

The point isn't to make the Bills a ground-and-pound "archaic crap" run-first team.

 

The point is that from a defensive perspective, any time there's a perceived gap in the offense, defenses take advantage.  That's how the Bills have shut down or pretty well limited the Ravens, who are an excellent running team.  We understand what they can't or won't do in the passing game, so we don't bother to defend that and instead we hone in on containing Jackson and stopping the run.

 

When we're playing a more balanced team, like the Titans who run first, but who also have an effective play-action passing game and a QB willing and able to get key yards with his feet, it's much harder to shut them down.

 

Urban Meyer sketched out on a cocktail napkin, before the Jags game, what the Bills offense has become, and how to shut them down.  We're a spread offense, no run threat.  This freed him up to put two safeties deep and blanket the middle of the field with DBs but still bring pressure, because they could overload one or the other side of the line with no worries at all about "gap integrity".   

 

This is analogous to how Pittsburgh played us, except Pittsburgh at the time had a very stout DL and LB and the thinking was every team can't do that.  After the Jags game it became clear "Oh Yes They Can"

 

We either fix this, or it's going to be a nice long offseason to work on it.

[balln]

truth

[KeLLy1278]

10 hours ago, Logic said:

Bills will lose to the Bucs, drop to 7-6, and kill off any remaining hope that fans or analysts have of them recovering.

They'll then proceed to win all four remaining games after that and make the playoffs at 11-6.

I know, I'm a crazy homer, we don't have a shot in hell, blah blah blah.

11-6 and playoffs. It's gonna happen!

 

You know what.. I’m with you.  I don’t really give them much of a chance against Brady but I feel like they will pull off a run to close out the regular season. 11-6 or 10-7.  Will it be enough to make the playoffs?  

Edited December 9, 2021 by KeLLy1278

[KeLLy1278]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

McDermott needs to stop trying to make this team something it is not.  This team is all finesse players.  It is a team built to pass the ball and stop the pass.  No amount of forcing some archaic crap is going to change what these players are.  Just play to the damn strengths of the team.  Stop messing around with benching only certain players because they made a mistake.  Put the best players on the damn field and play some damn football.  The time for doing the crap they are trying to do is the off season and camp.  Not the middle of the season in a tight playoff race.  Get back to who you are, not who you want to be.

Yes.  He’s trying to instill the physicality on the fly but it just isn’t there.  I don’t think that this team is soft by any means.  But this bunch will never be the 2001 Ravens or 2016 Broncos.  Here’s the thing with McDIMWITT.. he talks a smooth, calm and collected game in the post game press conferences.  However, in game he seems like he has emotional meltdowns and makes bizarre decisions like his choice to have the spot reviewed.  Even a casual fan could tell that there was no evidence to overturn the call on the field.  His assistant coaches are blind I guess but that’s on Sean. It’s almost as if it’s arbitrary for Sean.  He chooses to kick field goals when the team should go for two and vice versa.  Belichick decided to run the ball all game long. Simple and effective because the Bills had no answers.  Oh but they will come out strong vS the Bucs this week right?  Right right??? Yes?  Do I hear??? Anybody?? I give this team a 25% chance of winning this week.

Edited December 9, 2021 by KeLLy1278

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, letsgoteam said:

Not saying your wrong, but where did you hear that about Daboll?

It was just speculation; talking about it all afternoon at wgr 55.

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Actually, it's quite easy to argue with this, and people have laid out the arguments multiple times in multiple threads.

 

The point isn't to make the Bills a ground-and-pound "archaic crap" run-first team.

 

The point is that from a defensive perspective, any time there's a perceived gap in the offense, defenses take advantage.  That's how the Bills have shut down or pretty well limited the Ravens, who are an excellent running team.  We understand what they can't or won't do in the passing game, so we don't bother to defend that and instead we hone in on containing Jackson and stopping the run.

 

When we're playing a more balanced team, like the Titans who run first, but who also have an effective play-action passing game and a QB willing and able to get key yards with his feet, it's much harder to shut them down.

 

Urban Meyer sketched out on a cocktail napkin, before the Jags game, what the Bills offense has become, and how to shut them down.  We're a spread offense, no run threat.  This freed him up to put two safeties deep and blanket the middle of the field with DBs but still bring pressure, because they could overload one or the other side of the line with no worries at all about "gap integrity".   

 

This is analogous to how Pittsburgh played us, except Pittsburgh at the time had a very stout DL and LB and the thinking was every team can't do that.  After the Jags game it became clear "Oh Yes They Can"

 

We either fix this, or it's going to be a nice long offseason to work on it.

I dont totally disagree with you here.  There is a time and place to run the football.  They have to.  I have argued for it myself.  Thats not what I was talking about in my post.  Their run game seems forced to me.  Like its not part of ebb and flow or any strategical offense, but more like throw a run in here just to say we tried.  How many times we going to bang Moss on first and goal?  How many times has he not gotten stuffed there and wasted a down.

 

There is a time and place to run the football and there is a time and place to play to the strengths of your team.  There are other ways to "run" the football without just throwing a run play in there for the hell of it.  IMO they need to go back to who they are.  This team is not built to run the football.  The o line is dominated time and again.  The backs either lack vision or lack speed.  Putting Moss on the field just because he wont fumble is ridiculous.  I dont care if the guy doesnt fumble if he doesnt even get a yard on most runs.  Jet sweeps.  Misdirections.  Josh runs.  Dink dunk.  Those all work in place of conventional bang up the middle runs.

 

Also their best running AND passing efforts have come from under center.  Yet most of the time they are in shot gun.  There are also ways to beat a cover 2 shell besides running the football.  Daboll should have this figured out a long time ago.  The elephant in the room is they cant run the football effectively.  Its past midseason.  They dont have the personnel. They arent going to fix that at this point in the season.  Instead they should be working on their strengths and get better where they actually are strong.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Scott7975

[Awwufelloff]

3 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I don't think Josh is going to have any time to throw.  Its going to get ugly quick

same

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I agree with you, but why in the world would we "want to be" a run and stop the run team?  

 

There was talk today that Daboll may have been under pressure from McDermott to run, that's why he ran as much as he did in the MNF game, and in key circumstances.

 

My God, I hope that is not accurate.

 

 

 

I think McDermott wants balance and is forcing the issue.  You can tell that by his comments when he says they have to run the football in December Bills weather.  I agree with the fact that they need to be able to effectively run the football.  What I dont agree with is having the personnel to do it.  They been trying all season.  It aint working.  Practice to the strength of the team and fix the run game in the off season.  Thats the only time it will get fixed.  Its not going to suddenly start working now just because they practiced really really hard this week.

[LABILLBACKER]

If I were McD, knowing I might have the most dynamic qb in Bills history,  I'd start building a 90's Dallas OL around him. Then all of a sudden a run game pops up. Then less pressure goes on Allen.  If you want to return to 12-13 win seasons, this has to happen. After Brown and Dawkins, no one is safe.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Actually, it's quite easy to argue with this, and people have laid out the arguments multiple times in multiple threads.

 

The point isn't to make the Bills a ground-and-pound "archaic crap" run-first team.

 

The point is that from a defensive perspective, any time there's a perceived gap in the offense, defenses take advantage.  That's how the Bills have shut down or pretty well limited the Ravens, who are an excellent running team.  We understand what they can't or won't do in the passing game, so we don't bother to defend that and instead we hone in on containing Jackson and stopping the run.

 

When we're playing a more balanced team, like the Titans who run first, but who also have an effective play-action passing game and a QB willing and able to get key yards with his feet, it's much harder to shut them down.

 

Urban Meyer sketched out on a cocktail napkin, before the Jags game, what the Bills offense has become, and how to shut them down.  We're a spread offense, no run threat.  This freed him up to put two safeties deep and blanket the middle of the field with DBs but still bring pressure, because they could overload one or the other side of the line with no worries at all about "gap integrity".   

 

This is analogous to how Pittsburgh played us, except Pittsburgh at the time had a very stout DL and LB and the thinking was every team can't do that.  After the Jags game it became clear "Oh Yes They Can"

 

We either fix this, or it's going to be a nice long offseason to work on it.

The part that I am not arguing with us the bills are who they are this year and to try to change them at the end of the season is going to be a futile attempt we cannot run the ball we cannot all of a sudden be a team that runs the ball we have to be who we are and do what we are best at in the off-season I am hoping that there is more of an emphasis of balance

[78thealltimegreat]

For all the doom and gloom

which is justifiable the bills are in every non colts game.

This Bucs juggernaut just lost to Washington and Taylor Heinicke and where pretty beaten up in the process.

This game will come down to the 4th quarter .

If Brady is off a bit he has Fournette and Jones to hand off too

If Josh is off a bit he has Moss and Singletary.

Pretty obvious based on that alone the easy pic is the Bucs especially after Monday

But the head says just give Josh a little time and he wins this game 31-27. 

[CNYfan]

I think the frustration of the way the season has gone is starting to erode the "feel good" around this team.  I think the nation sees blood in the water and a Bills team floundering, coming apart at the seams.     

I think the "drops" were the story of Monday Night's nightmare.  A catch here and there and the O keeps moving.  But it didn't happen.   Last year was a magical run where alot of things bounced the right way.  This year is a regression to the mean.  it seems like the weather is against us every week.  

I think this is adversity, and it may not be pretty and it may not be a playoff team, but this Version of the Bills can still be great.   At some point it will come back together.    

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I don't think Josh is going to have any time to throw.  Its going to get ugly quick

Agreed. We should keep an extra blocker in there on more than just a couple occasions 

[Greg S]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Agreed. We should keep an extra blocker in there on more than just a couple occasions 

 

Here is a preview of what Allen's Sunday is going to look like

 

 

 

[Greg S]

All whites the weekend.

 

 

 

[HamSandwhich]

Where are all the links to stories, or twitter, etc?  Is Yolo ok? 

[finn]

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

McDermott needs to stop trying to make this team something it is not.  This team is all finesse players.  It is a team built to pass the ball and stop the pass.  No amount of forcing some archaic crap is going to change what these players are.  Just play to the damn strengths of the team.  Stop messing around with benching only certain players because they made a mistake.  Put the best players on the damn field and play some damn football.  The time for doing the crap they are trying to do is the off season and camp.  Not the middle of the season in a tight playoff race.  Get back to who you are, not who you want to be.

I agree, if you mean that McDermott wants a power-running, ball-control offense and a run-stuffing defense. A Belichick team, in other words. Instead, he has a thoroughbred for a QB, a mongrel mix of power- and finesse blockers up front, two backup-quality running backs, and a bend-don't break defense. So he has a choice: Play to the strengths of his team, or force a square peg into a round hole? Sounds like he's planning on the latter, no matter what the consequences. I give him high marks for building a winning culture here, but he lacks imagination and flexibility of mind. We saw that in the championship game last year when he elected to kick field goals against a high-scoring offense that was dominating his team. And he might have been behind the decision to take Monday's game out of the hands of his MVP quarterback and put it into the hands of Breida, Moss and Singletary.

 

I'm not calling for him to be replaced, but he doesn't have the team he wants, and this team doesn't have the head coach it needs. 

[SoCal Deek]

Is it going to be windy? You know we can’t play in the wind! 

[Greg S]

11 minutes ago, finn said:

I agree, if you mean that McDermott wants a power-running, ball-control offense and a run-stuffing defense. A Belichick team, in other words. Instead, he has a thoroughbred for a QB, a mongrel mix of power- and finesse blockers up front, two backup-quality running backs, and a bend-don't break defense. So he has a choice: Play to the strengths of his team, or force a square peg into a round hole? Sounds like he's planning on the latter, no matter what the consequences. I give him high marks for building a winning culture here, but he lacks imagination and flexibility of mind. We saw that in the championship game last year when he elected to kick field goals against a high-scoring offense that was dominating his team. And he might have been behind the decision to take Monday's game out of the hands of his MVP quarterback and put it into the hands of Breida, Moss and Singletary.

 

I'm not calling for him to be replaced, but he doesn't have the team he wants, and this team doesn't have the head coach it needs. 

 

I would like the team to be more balanced. With a strong OL and a strong running game that would make Allen much more dangerous in the passing game. Kelly said many times when Thurman was having a good game it made his job so much easier throwing the ball. Imagine what Josh could do if opposing defenses had to respect our ability to run the ball.

[Solomon Grundy]

30 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

As long as it isn’t Sweeney…. Why he’s still on the team I have no ide.

IMO, it takes Beane/McDermott a while to admit a mistake. Nathan Peterman/Vernon Butler keeps coming to mind.

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Agreed. We should keep an extra blocker in there on more than just a couple occasions 

I’m more afraid of a Josh Allen injury from TB pass rush

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Strongest armed and most athletic QB in the league…..McD says we need more Moss and Singletary.

They can’t change the team this late in the season. Time to go all-in with passing game! Think I’m crazy? The Patriots just won doing the exact opposite on Monday night. 

[KCNC]

I think Josh will throw 40-50 times Sunday.  Ain't no way we are running the ball on that team.

[Logic]

I hope Daboll says "***** it, if we're going down, we're going down swinging" and empties the bag of tricks. I want motions, jet sweeps, designed QB runs, trick plays, screens, you name it. 

We're NOT going to be able to run the ball against this team, so sling that sumbitch around the yard and play like it's the last game of your life.

If we're gonna lose, can we at least make it fun? Can we at least make it look good? Like, I didn't mind the Tennessee loss so much. It was entertaining as hell and we went down like fighters. The Colts and Pats losses, well...not so much. 

MAKE BILLS FOOTBALL FUN AGAIN

[dave mcbride]

Does anyone have any sense of the injury situation for Tampa's secondary? I know Edwards is down for faking his covid vaccination. 

[DJB]

I'm shocked the line is only favored by 3 for the Bucs. 

 

We are going to get killed

[Logic]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Does anyone have any sense of the injury situation for Tampa's secondary? I know Edwards is down for faking his covid vaccination. 

As far as I know, Carlton Davis will be good to go, Richard Sherman has been activated from IR and will likely play, and Jamel Dean is questionable. Should know more when today's practice report comes out.

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

As far as I know, Carlton Davis will be good to go, Richard Sherman has been activated from IR and will likely play, and Jamel Dean is questionable. Should know more when today's practice report comes out.

And whitehead is now out.  Their CB room is finally healthy…..perfect timing 😔 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

And whitehead is now out.  Their CB room is finally healthy…..perfect timing 😔 

Sherman had been an absolute liability out there before getting hurt. Kinda happy he's back. Allen had no trouble with him last time they faced off. 

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

As far as I know, Carlton Davis will be good to go, Richard Sherman has been activated from IR and will likely play, and Jamel Dean is questionable. Should know more when today's practice report comes out.

Just looked myself. Jamel Dean didn't practice (concussion; he suffered it on Sunday so maybe he won't play), Whitehead (who missed last week with a calf) didn't either, and Edwards - who doesn't start much but plays a lot - is out. If all three are out, they should in theory be weak back there. But the Colts were supposed to be weak too because of injuries in the secondary. Didn't work out that way.

 

https://bucswire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-news-tampa-bay-buccaneers-injury-report-week-14-buffalo-bills/

 

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And whitehead is now out.  Their CB room is finally healthy…..perfect timing 😔 

Dean had a concussion vs Atlanta and he may not be ready. 

[finn]

Help me out here. What's up with the pessimism? We finally have everyone back on the offensive line, and pretty much everyone is healthy. White being out is big, but he isn't the only reason the defense has been one of the best in the league. Yet people are full of doom and gloom. Why? The Pats game was a complete anomaly because of the weather; against the Colts, we were down Star, Edwards, Mongo and Brown. We lost to the Jags, but the Bucs lost to Washington; stuff happens. The Bills are pissed and hungry. 

 

I'm totally looking forward to this game. It's going to be a real shootout that will show a changing of the guard from Brady to Allen. 

[Logic]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Just looked myself. Jamel Dean didn't practice (concussion; he suffered it on Sunday so maybe he won't play), Whitehead (who missed last week with a calf) didn't either, and Edwards - who doesn't start much but plays a lot - is out. If all three are out, they should in theory be weak back there. But the Colts were supposed to be weak too because of injuries in the secondary. Didn't work out that way.

 

https://bucswire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-news-tampa-bay-buccaneers-injury-report-week-14-buffalo-bills/

 

Dean had a concussion vs Atlanta and he may not be ready. 

In my opinion, the healthy guys -- Sean Murphy-Bunting, Carlton Davis, Richard Sherman, and Antoine Winfield Jr -- are enough to make the secondary rather imposing. Combine it with their absolutely filthy front seven and it COULD be a long day for the Bills offense.

That said, I have a weird feeling the Bills offense plays well this Sunday. I have no rational explanation for feeling that way. Just a hunch.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

In my opinion, the healthy guys -- Sean Murphy-Bunting, Carlton Davis, Richard Sherman, and Antoine Winfield Jr -- are enough to make the secondary rather imposing. Combine it with their absolutely filthy front seven and it COULD be a long day for the Bills offense.

That said, I have a weird feeling the Bills offense plays well this Sunday. I have no rational explanation for feeling that way. Just a hunch.

I have no idea. On paper, that defense is a terrible matchup for us because they can get pressure inside and with four. Suh is having a great season. 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

Here is a preview of what Allen's Sunday is going to look like

 

 

 

 

I think you mean

 

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

100% agree with your saying…. Don’t count on McD adapting to this philosophy… he’s stubborn and will consistently force the issue of forcing the ineffective running game.

 

Unfortunately I don't.  You can tell by his comments this week.

[NewEra]

33 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Sherman had been an absolute liability out there before getting hurt. Kinda happy he's back. Allen had no trouble with him last time they faced off. 

I agree but we wary.  He’s smart and may have learned his lesson. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by NewEra

[Fan in Chicago]

25 minutes ago, finn said:

Help me out here. What's up with the pessimism? We finally have everyone back on the offensive line, and pretty much everyone is healthy. White being out is big, but he isn't the only reason the defense has been one of the best in the league. Yet people are full of doom and gloom. Why? The Pats game was a complete anomaly because of the weather; against the Colts, we were down Star, Edwards, Mongo and Brown. We lost to the Jags, but the Bucs lost to Washington; stuff happens. The Bills are pissed and hungry. 

 

I'm totally looking forward to this game. It's going to be a real shootout that will show a changing of the guard from Brady to Allen. 

I like your optimism but the Pats** game set me back with my expectations to 2018 levels. After each of the games against Colts, Jags and Pats** game, we came up with different excuses. Losers make excuses, winners just win. We are looking more like the former than the latter 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Fan in Chicago