Spencer Brown placed on Covid List [Edit: Thurs 11/18]

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

Tough break that whether we win or lose we're still somehow 6-4.

I fixed it now..Thanks 

[Ross Murdock]

If winning was a top priority for these unvaccinated Bills players, they'd be vaccinated. 17 teams in the NFL are 95% or better vaccinated, this group includes the Pats and Titans. 4 teams are 100% vaccinated (The Raiders - Falcons - Bucs - Rams). 4 teams are less than 85% vaccinated. Likely the Bills are in this group. This info is on NFL.com. The teams in the playoff hunt that are the most vaccinated, provides them a big edge.  Deservedly so. 

[Doc]

46 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

20 pages about a RT with 4 career starts who is about to miss his 3rd game out of the last 4-----this place is amazing!!

 

What does the number of starts Brown has have to do with anything?  He's proven already to be one of the Bills' top-4 OL (at least) and a very good player.  And he allows them to move Williams to RG and improve that spot.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Doc

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Ross Murdock said:

If winning was a top priority for these unvaccinated Bills players, they'd be vaccinated. 17 teams in the NFL are 95% or better vaccinated, this group includes the Pats and Titans. 4 teams are 100% vaccinated (The Raiders - Falcons - Bucs - Rams). 4 teams are less than 85% vaccinated. Likely the Bills are in this group. This info is on NFL.com. The teams in the playoff hunt that are the most vaccinated, provides them a big edge.  Deservedly so. 

 

Both McDermott and Beane have said the Bills unvaccinated players are “in the single digits”.

If we assume they are counting the practice squad, that would be at a minimum >87% (if 9, the highest “single digit” number)

 

Oh, and on the Bucs…..Not. So. Fast.

[Mr. WEO]

45 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Thing is, that RT with 4 starts has made it quite clear the OL is much better with him playing. Which is a good sign he's done that well in that little time

I don’t agree.  They weren’t great in the Tennessee game. 
 

You can’t pin O-line play, good or bad, on a RT over 4 games

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

What does the number of starts Brown has have to do with anything?  He's proven already to be one of the Bills' top-4 OL (at least) and a very good player.  And he allows them to move Williams to RG and improve that spot.

top O line after 4 career starts? At RT?

 

no

Edited November 19, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[DCofNC]

58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

20 pages about a RT with 4 career starts who is about to miss his 3rd game out of the last 4-----this place is amazing!!

What’s amazing, is he is literally the key to this team not imploding.  Beane has a lot to be proud of.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, DCofNC said:

What’s amazing, is he is literally the key to this team not imploding.  Beane has a lot to be proud of.

literally?? Lol, we have a winner!!

 

he’s played 4 full games

[klos63]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don’t agree.  They weren’t great in the Tennessee game. 
 

You can’t pin O-line play, good or bad, on a RT over 4 games

top O line after 4 career starts? At RT?

 

no

I think it's impossible to deny the positive impact Brown has had on the line. He's helped greatly improve 40% of our line by being a better RT than Williams and Williams is a better right guard than anyone else that has played that position. It's impossible to not see the impact he has made.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I think it's impossible to deny the positive impact Brown has had on the line. He's helped greatly improve 40% of our line by being a better RT than Williams and Williams is a better right guard than anyone else that has played that position. It's impossible to not see the impact he has made.

It’s impossible to draw such a conclusion in 4 games out of 9

[Straight Hucklebuck]

45 minutes ago, Ross Murdock said:

If winning was a top priority for these unvaccinated Bills players, they'd be vaccinated. 17 teams in the NFL are 95% or better vaccinated, this group includes the Pats and Titans. 4 teams are 100% vaccinated (The Raiders - Falcons - Bucs - Rams). 4 teams are less than 85% vaccinated. Likely the Bills are in this group. This info is on NFL.com. The teams in the playoff hunt that are the most vaccinated, provides them a big edge.  Deservedly so. 

100% agree.

 

People have had 8 months to do research on the vaccine.

 

You don’t get it, you leave yourself open to this, and possible side effects.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don’t agree.  They weren’t great in the Tennessee game. 
 

You can’t pin O-line play, good or bad, on a RT over 4 games

So if you believe the OL wasn't good in the Tenn game, do you think they would have been better if Brown was not playing then? Fact is Brown makes this OL better, otherwise they wouldn't be still starting him.

 

To me it's obvious he makes this OL better so not sure what you're seeing, so we will just agree to disagree

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

So if you believe the OL wasn't good in the Tenn game, do you think they would have been better if Brown was not playing then? Fact is Brown makes this OL better, otherwise they wouldn't be still starting him.

 

To me it's obvious he makes this OL better so not sure what you're seeing, so we will just agree to disagree

4 games out of 9 (1 a loss with 3 sacks in JA) doesn’t overcome null hypothesis, statistically 

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Top O line after 4 career starts? At RT?
 

 

no

 

Yes.  It's not even up for debate.

 

But OK, outside of Dawkins, Morse and Williams, who would you put above him?

[Doc Brown]

10 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Dont worry guys, Joe B said Cody Ford wasnt really as bad as we all thought he was against the Jags.   No reason to worry.

He wasn’t to my surprise as I wanted the Bills to ship him to Cuba after the game.  I rewatched the game though after pff gave Ford the highest grade for that game among the o-line focusing on just the o-line.  Ford had a bad game while the rest of our o-line had a REALLY bad game.  Joe B saw the same thing when he came out with his all22.  Ford was the most logical scapegoat though amongst Bills fans.  

[Maynard]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

4 games out of 9 (1 a loss with 3 sacks in JA) doesn’t overcome null hypothesis, statistically 

That’s ridiculous man. Brown makes the line better period.  

[Reks Ryan]

Considering that Star traveled w team to NJ.  It will be surprising if Brown is the only player who tests +.

[GreggTX]

The thought of a Ford-Buckne or Boettger-Buckner matchup is truly cringe worthy. I hope Josh doesn't get killed. I'm equally worried about stopping their ground game. As far as the vaccine goes, you can still get covid and spread it, but there are so many conflicting opinions on its efficacy and they mostly seem based on politics rather than science, so it's hard to know who to believe.

Edited November 19, 2021 by GreggTX

[Patrick Duffy]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

4 games out of 9 (1 a loss with 3 sacks in JA) doesn’t overcome null hypothesis, statistically 

So you think OL would have been better without him playing? Or you just ignore that question on purpose or don't want to answer?

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You call it bedwetting - I call it realism. Did you see the OL without Brown? Now we're walking into a game with Indy without Brown, Lotulelei, Edmunds, and possibly Milano. Optimism is great. But you'd be kidding yourself to not be concerned.

Just so happened that Daboll called a horrible game against Jags, and Josh was trying to do way too much.

 

This oline is still capable without Brown.  People forget Darryl was given a nice extension for his play at RT.  Daboll needs to adjust and not call 50 passes vs 9 runs.

 

Injuries impact every team, we have a ton of depth and need to play mistake free ball.

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You call it bedwetting - I call it realism. Did you see the OL without Brown? Now we're walking into a game with Indy without Brown, Lotulelei, Edmunds, and possibly Milano. Optimism is great. But you'd be kidding yourself to not be concerned.

Just so happened that Daboll called a horrible game against Jags, and Josh was trying to do way too much.

 

This oline is still capable without Brown.  People forget Darryl was given a nice extension for his play at RT.  Daboll needs to adjust and not call 50 passes vs 9 runs.

 

Injuries impact every team, we have a ton of depth and need to play mistake free ball.

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You call it bedwetting - I call it realism. Did you see the OL without Brown? Now we're walking into a game with Indy without Brown, Lotulelei, Edmunds, and possibly Milano. Optimism is great. But you'd be kidding yourself to not be concerned.

Just so happened that Daboll called a horrible game against Jags, and Josh was trying to do way too much.

 

This oline is still capable without Brown.  People forget Darryl was given a nice extension for his play at RT.  Daboll needs to adjust and not call 50 passes vs 9 runs.

 

Injuries impact every team, we have a ton of depth and need to play mistake free ball.

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You call it bedwetting - I call it realism. Did you see the OL without Brown? Now we're walking into a game with Indy without Brown, Lotulelei, Edmunds, and possibly Milano. Optimism is great. But you'd be kidding yourself to not be concerned.

Just so happened that Daboll called a horrible game against Jags, and Josh was trying to do way too much.

 

This oline is still capable without Brown.  People forget Darryl was given a nice extension for his play at RT.  Daboll needs to adjust and not call 50 passes vs 9 runs.

 

Injuries impact every team, we have a ton of depth and need to play mistake free ball.

[BillsFanForever19]

30 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Just so happened that Daboll called a horrible game against Jags, and Josh was trying to do way too much.

 

This oline is still capable without Brown.  People forget Darryl was given a nice extension for his play at RT.  Daboll needs to adjust and not call 50 passes vs 9 runs.

 

Injuries impact every team, we have a ton of depth and need to play mistake free ball.

 

Were you watching the games we played with Brown out of the lineup? It was God awful line play. The game plan had no effect on Josh having no protection in front of him every single time he stepped back to pass. Daryl was given an extension for his play at RT last season. This season? He's been so utterly terrible at RT, that they moved him to Guard and started Spencer Brown instead. And when we shifted him back there following Brown's injury - he was even worse!

 

Ford was benched for terrible play, Feliciano was playing terrible and is now on IR. I don't know what Offensive Line you've been watching or what depth chart you're looking at - but I couldn't possibly disagree with your assessment that we have a ton of depth and are capable without Brown any more if I tried.

[Patience]

3 hours ago, klos63 said:

Saying we need good lineman refutes the notion that you think we could get away with bad lineman.  It just doesn't work that way.  

 

No,  I don't think it creates hesitation on the dline. I honesty think you're trying to fool yourself into thinking that this isn't that big of an issue. 

 

Where did I say it wasn't a big issue?  Where did I say we could "get away with bad linemen?" Reread my posts and then get back to me.  

 

I'm not fooling myself into anything - I'm aware that the team needs to work within the confines of the players we have available.  I know it's a big issue.  You seem to be the one fooling yourself into thinking we can find and/or develop "good linemen" by Sunday.  Of course it'd be ideal to have good linemen to run a screen play - that doesn't take much analysis at all.  But the point is - we do not.  And we need a gameplan with the linemen that are on the roster.  Unless you want to pull "good linemen" from who knows where to execute a different gameplan?  

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don’t agree.  They weren’t great in the Tennessee game. 
 

You can’t pin O-line play, good or bad, on a RT over 4 games

top O line after 4 career starts? At RT?

 

no

 

I cant believe you can't see the difference with Brown in.  He is easily the best o linmen on the team right now.  Not only that but him being out changes two spots and puts Cody Ford back on the field.  It's pretty easy to see why Brown is that important.  Keeping Ford off the field alone is night and day.

 

Reposting from goBills404 earlier in the thread...

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Scott7975

[Da webster guy]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I cant believe you can't see the difference with Brown in.  He is easily the best o linmen on the team right now.  Not only that but him being out changes two spots and puts Cody Ford back on the field.  It's pretty easy to see why Brown is that important.  Keeping Ford off the field alone is night and day.

Yeah there's no debate on that.  If Ford wasn't a high pick and such a likeable guy he doesn't make the 53 this year.

Brown seems snakebit with the late start, injury and now this Covid designation.  Not only is he better at RT but Williams graded out well at guard so Spencer really improves 2 spots which is 40% of our entire Oline.

 

Strange but true, this 3rd round rookie with very limited experience is unfortunately a big part of our offense now.

[Big Blitz]

32 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I cant believe you can't see the difference with Brown in.  He is easily the best o linmen on the team right now.  Not only that but him being out changes two spots and puts Cody Ford back on the field.  It's pretty easy to see why Brown is that important.  Keeping Ford off the field alone is night and day.

 

Reposting from goBills404 earlier in the thread...

 

 

 

 

Agree with all this but the Jax game weighs those numbers down dramatically.

 

No Brown definitely hurts.  

 

 

But no Knox was the much bigger factor

[klos63]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

It’s impossible to draw such a conclusion in 4 games out of 9

Not if you were watching.

[klos63]

46 minutes ago, Patience said:

 

Where did I say it wasn't a big issue?  Where did I say we could "get away with bad linemen?" Reread my posts and then get back to me.  

 

I'm not fooling myself into anything - I'm aware that the team needs to work within the confines of the players we have available.  I know it's a big issue.  You seem to be the one fooling yourself into thinking we can find and/or develop "good linemen" by Sunday.  Of course it'd be ideal to have good linemen to run a screen play - that doesn't take much analysis at all.  But the point is - we do not.  And we need a gameplan with the linemen that are on the roster.  Unless you want to pull "good linemen" from who knows where to execute a different gameplan?  

You implied that running more screens and quick passes will help negate the issues of a poor line, so yes, getting away with bad lineman.

 

I never said anything about finding good lineman by sunday, never even thought about something like that.

 

You can't hide bad line play, hopefully they play well enough that Allen has some time to throw the ball and not just dump passes. That won't work.

[Scott7975]

15 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Agree with all this but the Jax game weighs those numbers down dramatically.

 

No Brown definitely hurts.  

 

 

But no Knox was the much bigger factor

 

I agree Knox was also a big factor but Brown essentially changes 3 spots on our oline including himself.

[MasterStrategist]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Were you watching the games we played with Brown out of the lineup? It was God awful line play. The game plan had no effect on Josh having no protection in front of him every single time he stepped back to pass. Daryl was given an extension for his play at RT last season. This season? He's been so utterly terrible at RT, that they moved him to Guard and started Spencer Brown instead. And when we shifted him back there following Brown's injury - he was even worse!

 

Ford was benched for terrible play, Feliciano was playing terrible and is now on IR. I don't know what Offensive Line you've been watching or what depth chart you're looking at - but I couldn't possibly disagree with your assessment that we have a ton of depth and are capable without Brown any more if I tried.

I was responding to two points:

1. Missing Brown

2. Defense being down, potentially, a few starters

 

My point about depth was more geared toward defense, where we have guys like Harry, Klein, etc who are capable of stepping up.

 

Regarding Brown, yes I watched what our oline did against Jacksonville.  Did you notice, if you watched the game, the playcalling? No balance, it was all shotgun and pass.  Then this past week against the Jets, we go under center much more and present a balanced look.  Also involved Breida more.

 

Clearly missing Brown is a drop off in play, but my point is Daboll could be helping the situation.

 

Williams horrible at Tackle? They moved him inside because getting Brown on the field is their best 5 and Spencer isn't a guard.  Overreact much?  When we shifted him back. he still played solid (missed 1 3rd down block).  Not sure you know what you're watching.  Line isn't going to have success when Daboll calls 50 pass plays and the dline knows what's coming.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I was responding to two points:

1. Missing Brown

2. Defense being down, potentially, a few starters

 

My point about depth was more geared toward defense, where we have guys like Harry, Klein, etc who are capable of stepping up.

 

Regarding Brown, yes I watched what our oline did against Jacksonville.  Did you notice, if you watched the game, the playcalling? No balance, it was all shotgun and pass.  Then this past week against the Jets, we go under center much more and present a balanced look.  Also involved Breida more.

 

Clearly missing Brown is a drop off in play, but my point is Daboll could be helping the situation.

 

Williams horrible at Tackle? They moved him inside because getting Brown on the field is their best 5 and Spencer isn't a guard.  Overreact much?  When we shifted him back. he still played solid (missed 1 3rd down block).  Not sure you know what you're watching.  Line isn't going to have success when Daboll calls 50 pass plays and the dline knows what's coming.

 

Good points. 

 

In support of the points about Jacksonville:

-after the game McDermott called out opponents not respecting our run game, and physicality at the point of attack. 

-Daboll said "you can't just place blame on one player or one unit"

-while the OL played poorly, the fact that our 2nd half drives ended "interception interception punt fumble TOD" (with an overruled fumble on the TOD) was not entirely on the OL.  The first interception may have been a miscommunication/misread between Josh and Beasley, but the others were the reason Josh said "I played like *****"

There were other choices available.

 

So it wasn't all on the OL. 

 

And yes, this past week Daboll used Josh under center to good effect and used more heavy personnel to help the protection and the run game.  I think there's an argument to be made that part of the shaky OL performance from a cast of characters who were OK most of the time last year has to do with other teams being able to pin their ears back and defend either the pass or the run, because from shotgun we overwhelmingly pass, and under center we overwhelmingly run.

 

That's not to say the OL isn't better with Brown in there, and that offensive performance isn't a concern against the Colts, because they're a poor matchup on offense for our D so we'd better be able to score.

 

Williams was NOT playing well at RT.  Neither of our tackles are playing as well as they did last season.

 

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yes.  It's not even up for debate.

 

But OK, outside of Dawkins, Morse and Williams, who would you put above him?

 

Williams is a penalty machine.  He's not better than Brown I guess.

 

But to answer your question specifically, it's hard for me to tell....because it's been difficult to zero in on his play because he's had only 4 starts and only 1 in 4 weeks.  

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I cant believe you can't see the difference with Brown in.  He is easily the best o linmen on the team right now.  Not only that but him being out changes two spots and puts Cody Ford back on the field.  It's pretty easy to see why Brown is that important.  Keeping Ford off the field alone is night and day.

 

Reposting from goBills404 earlier in the thread...

 

 

 

If your argument is that Brown's value is in keeping an awful Ford off the field, then...ok.  I guess that's something.

7 hours ago, klos63 said:

Not if you were watching.

 

I blinked and I missed it.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Were you watching the games we played with Brown out of the lineup? It was God awful line play. The game plan had no effect on Josh having no protection in front of him every single time he stepped back to pass. Daryl was given an extension for his play at RT last season. This season? He's been so utterly terrible at RT, that they moved him to Guard and started Spencer Brown instead. And when we shifted him back there following Brown's injury - he was even worse!

 

Ford was benched for terrible play, Feliciano was playing terrible and is now on IR. I don't know what Offensive Line you've been watching or what depth chart you're looking at - but I couldn't possibly disagree with your assessment that we have a ton of depth and are capable without Brown any more if I tried.

 

THIS. ALL OF THIS. The Colts D Line will eat us alive if Ford sniffs the field. We have serious issues at OL right now at the worst possible time.

[oldmanfan]

I said before the season started we will not win the Lombardi because of Covid and having players miss games because they would not obey protocols and logic.  Unfortunately this seems like it will be the case.  If we lose to the Colts and/or Saints because of our O line issues, or because we are weaker in the run game because Star is out against Taylor on Sunday, we could not just lose a shot at home field but at the division given how the Patriots are playing.

 

I hope the players who miss games through no choice but their own are proud.

[NewEra]

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Agree with all this but the Jax game weighs those numbers down dramatically.

 

No Brown definitely hurts.  

 

 

But no Knox was the much bigger factor

The jax game should weigh the numbers down.  Jax has one of the worst defenses in the league……and we only scored 6 points.  That should carry weight.  It’s embarrassing 

[jletha]

McD says nobody has been ruled out yet, including Brown. Does that mean hes vaccinated? Otherwise couldnt he be fully ruled out already?

[Chandler#81]

Fingers crossed!🤞

[Process]

3 minutes ago, jletha said:

McD says nobody has been ruled out yet, including Brown. Does that mean hes vaccinated? Otherwise couldnt he be fully ruled out already?

Did he actually say "including Brown"? If not he was probably just referring to injured players. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Williams is a penalty machine.  He's not better than Brown I guess.

 

But to answer your question specifically, it's hard for me to tell....because it's been difficult to zero in on his play because he's had only 4 starts and only 1 in 4 weeks.  

 

Williams has had a total of 3 penalties called on him so far this season, out of 661 snaps.  He's not even close to a "penalty machine."  Brown became the starter at RT because he was ready to start and because moving Williams improved the RG spot.  

 

And don't worry, we don't need you to tell.  You didn't like the pick.  We get it.

[jletha]

6 minutes ago, Process said:

Did he actually say "including Brown"? If not he was probably just referring to injured players. 

No, I just saw this:

 

 

I think it has been updated though that he wont discuss Spencer's vaccination status.