NYS releases Bills stadium study

[ndirish1978]

Semi-covered is enough. The guys will just need to pick em up and put em down in the snow. This is Buffalo, play in the weather

[boater]

52 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

retractable roof

You obviously don't have much exposure to NYS Income Tax, or Erie County property tax... that's who pays for the stadium.

 

Pegs will chip in a few bucks.

[GaryPinC]

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

I prefer open air but the smart move would probably be a roof. Just hate to think of a 2014 snowstorm and 7 feet of snow on it.

Yah, and they can pay us fans $12 an hour plus a free game ticket to shovel it off!  The next great Bills Mafia videos.  Tables were child's play!

[CountDorkula]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Most of the extra money in the Downtown spec is for building out additional road ways, and infrastructure.

 

If the stadium was already downtown and we were talking about moving it to OP, you'd be saying "For the love of god, Abbott, Southwestern, and the 219 can't handle all that traffic. And a suburb doesnt have the infrastructure needed..." but here we are.

Id Prefer a downtown dome.

 

Hell Downtown needs the infrastructure updates anyway so what the hell. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Semi-covered is enough. The guys will just need to pick em up and put em down in the snow. This is Buffalo, play in the weather

This is my favorite.

 

Fans not getting punched and battered and bruised in sub freezing temperatures saying "suck it up"

[ndirish1978]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

This is my favorite.

 

Fans not getting punched and battered and bruised in sub freezing temperatures saying "suck it up"

 

 

Awww thanks man, you're my favorite too!

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Id Prefer a downtown dome.

 

Hell Downtown needs the infrastructure updates anyway so what the hell.

 

 

Same. Great opportunity to move downtown a big step forward. Improve the rail system to the area, improve the roads, improve the infrastructure... where is the bad part?

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

 

Awww thanks man, you're my favorite too!

Hearts and stuff.

 

I meant no offense, but its annoying to me.

 

The cold weather makes everything hurt more.

 

Hell even Thurman Thomas talked about how every year they would hope for Southern Road trips during the winter to not have to play in the cold. this is nothing new. 

[cwater10]

If the new stadium is built in OP, where does team play during construction?  Do we continue in current stadium during construction or is there a viable alternate in mind?

[holla83]

The report that came out a couple years ago about the ECC campus nearby makes too much sense. ECC would sell the property to the Bills for $1.00 if the Bills covered the demolition costs.

[CountDorkula]

My question is 60,000 max capacity.

 

So 60,000 seats - 12,000 luxury/box seats.

 

so 48,000 regular seats.

 

Seems small

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Same. Great opportunity to move downtown a big step forward. Improve the rail system to the area, improve the roads, improve the infrastructure... where is the bad part?

The only thing I am seeing on twitter is the bad part is tailgating.

 

Nowhere to drunkenly throw yourself through a table at 10 am.

[RobbRiddick]

"The newest and most modern stadium in the NFL"

 

I love this. Amazing when you look at it being built and think of all the plays, drama, celebration and tears that would be played out inside the finished stadium

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFAyTbllkxQ

 

It won't allow it to be embedded. It's Rich Stadium being built in 1972 if you hadn't guessed

[cba fan]

14 minutes ago, cwater10 said:

If the new stadium is built in OP, where does team play during construction?  Do we continue in current stadium during construction or is there a viable alternate in mind?

old stadium is not demolished until new stadium across the street is ready for use. If they reno old stadium Bills must play elsewhere for 2 plus years. Syracuse maybe and some said possibly Penn Sate due to Pegs affinity for PSU.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

For the love of god don't put it downtown, the traffic jam would last until tuesday.  The infrastructure can barely handle the daily commute.  Build it across the street from the current one.  I would prefer a dome but it's not a dealbreaker, the important thing is that they don't cheap out and build it 50 feet underground this time.  THAT'S what causes the swirling winds that make it awful to play at.  Open air stadiums work fine in cold cities, e.g., Green Bay, Pittsburgh, KC, NE.

 

 I swear I’m not making fun of you or poking maliciously, but I live in Atlanta (unfortunately and against my will) and I found that kind of amusing. I feel like I’m the only guy on the road when I drive around WNY, including downtown. It’s all relative, I guess.  

 

It’s in OP now because the land was cheap in the middle of nowhere, and, well, you know what they said about Ralph…… 

 

Getting in and out of the lots in OP is no treat. I’ve been to downtown stadiums that were easier to escape from, but if they are in WNY I can live with whatever. 

 

I’m not saying what they SHOULD do because I know it would cost a LOT more, but I’d be more likely to come up to games later in the year if it were domed. That’s just a fact.  

 

I think if money were no object, I’d like a downtown dome, but whatever. 🤷‍♀️

.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Augie

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

25 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Id Prefer a downtown dome.

 

Hell Downtown needs the infrastructure updates anyway so what the hell. 

 

 

This is my favorite.

 

Fans not getting punched and battered and bruised in sub freezing temperatures saying "suck it up"

This is where I'm at too. It's a ton of money either way and the difference in cost between OP and downtown is mostly for infrastructure updates that the city could really benefit from anyways. Taxpayer dollars are probably going to make up the majority of the funds needed and I think a downtown stadium is the best bang for the city's buck. 

[LeGOATski]

25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Same. Great opportunity to move downtown a big step forward. Improve the rail system to the area, improve the roads, improve the infrastructure... where is the bad part?

How about they do that ***** anyway. Most cities improve their infrastructure without the luxury of having an NFL team.

[CountDorkula]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

 I swear I’m not making fun of you or poking maliciously, but I live in Atlanta (unfortunately and against my will) and I found that kind of amusing. I feel like I’m the only guy on the road when I drive around WNY, including downtown. It’s all relative, I guess.  

 

It’s in OP now because the land was cheap in the middle of nowhere, and, well, you know what they said about Ralph…… 

 

Getting in and out of the lots in OP is no treat. I’ve been to downtown stadiums that were easier to escape from, but if they are in WNY I can live with whatever. 

People of WNY dont know how easy we have it.

 

Lived in ATL for 6 years before family/divorce brought me back to WNY.

 

I do miss the ATL winters for certain though. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Why is is 750 mil more to build downtown?  Destruction of area?

 

Details in good John Wawrow AP piece:

https://apnews.com/article/nfl-sports-business-buffalo-new-york-a0c2978fe879bcd632a5480443d34581

 

Quote

The study, released Tuesday, estimates that a new stadium at the Bills’ proposed location, across the street from their current home in Orchard Park, would cost $1.354 billion. Building one downtown would, at a minimum, add $750 million because of the need to acquire land and make necessary infrastructure upgrades.

 

[CountDorkula]

8 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

How about they do that ***** anyway. Most cities improve their infrastructure without the luxury of having an NFL team.

Ive been saying this for years.

 

Expand the rail system along route 5 to the southtowns. its insane that the only viable way to get downtown is to drive for the people in the south towns. 

 

also, build ***** along route 5 as well. There is sooo much green space. 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

How about they do that ***** anyway. Most cities improve their infrastructure without the luxury of having an NFL team.

I know what you're saying and sometimes it feels like everything is moving at a snail's pace, but Buffalo is working on a decent amount of infrastructure stuff at the minute. Among many initiatives, the ones that come to my mind are bringing cars back to Main Street to revitalize that district, adding more bike stations around the city, finalizing plans for the Riverline project, and financing studies to reconfigure or eliminate the Scajaquada and Kensington Expressways...slowly but surely I feel like the city is trying to correct some of the mistakes of the past and improve.

 

But with that proposed site for the downtown stadium, it would be in an area/neighborhood that isn't likely to be high up on the infrastructure priority list as it's more residential and kind of downtown-adjacent at the moment. Building the stadium there could potentially spur a lot of development over there, extend the rail lines, and start to build a corridor between downtown, the stadium, and Larkinville. 

 

A downtown stadium is more expensive, but I think it's the more forward-thinking option long term and the one that has the potential to help the city the most. 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

People of WNY dont know how easy we have it.

 

Lived in ATL for 6 years before family/divorce brought me back to WNY.

 

I do miss the ATL winters for certain though. 

 

HA! I remember the WNY winters, and miss the Florida winters!

 

ATL has too much 40’s, gray skies and drizzle for me, but it could always be worse! 

[BuffaloRebound]

Not really apples to apples comparison if OP doesn’t have a dome and downtown does.  If $450m is the real difference and UB will kick in money if it’s downtown, it might not even be more money to build it downtown.  

[LABILLBACKER]

Count me in as a DT Domer. I know alot of the hard core fans want it open air, but regardless of how big Josh's arm is, he sometimes struggles in the wind/rain scenario. Or at least build it so you have the option to roof it later?

[cwater10]

3 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

The current facility is not going to fall down, tomorrow, or even in the next ten years.

Thanks Bart.  I get the tragic  comedy of the premise, but not really what I was questioning.  Guess I did not phrase it quite right, but was curious if construction would impact the usability of the current stadium.  Sounds like that is thankfully not a concern. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by cwater10

[zonabb]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

Why is is 750 mil more to build downtown?  Destruction of area?

Been repeatedly saying it here multiple times.... it was cheaper and IS going to be in OP because of the added infrastructure and land acquisition costs for downtown. Anyone willing to approach this from a rational (i.e., not a fan's) perspective, understands the costs here. The city's sewer and water infrastructure sucks and needs a major upgrade to carry the capacity of a new stadium. Plus parking and other amenities. In OP, the county own's the land so land costs are effectivelty zero. Downtown they need to buy, or take via eminent domain, lots of property currently in private hands, or in govt/quasi-govt hands. Plus the added time and costs of any eminent domain process when the inevitable hold outs happen. In OP you simply extend the existing sewer and water systems to the new site, no offsite improvements needed, a la downtown.

 

And because the Pegulas, I think, plan to ask for money but also not be greedy, OP has always been the place it will go. Unless the state and city, both bad at development and fiscal management, decide to waste money to build it downtown. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

How come there is no option for putting money into the structural integrity of what’s already there and adding coverage to that? The top of the stadium looks like it’s only 30 feet above the ground. It has to be the easiest stadium imaginable to build some sort of roof over. The entire thing is almost underground to begin with. That would probably be 1/4 cost and get almost everything we want.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

Yah, and they can pay us fans $12 an hour plus a free game ticket to shovel it off!  The next great Bills Mafia videos.  Tables were child's play!

 

That gives me an idea for next winter event - snow table breaking.

[chris heff]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

Why is is 750 mil more to build downtown?  Destruction of area?

No, destruction of downtown started in late 1960s was completed by mid 1970s.

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I think this confirms that OP will be the main area. Downtown sounds cool but I’m glad they’re sticking with tailgating 

Josh Allen confirmed himself that our his new stadium won’t have a roof

Fixed it for you

[chris heff]

So we are all in agreement then.

 

On second thought I think they should build both. Open air in Orchard Park and dome downtown. The weather would dictate where they play. So two games in Orchard Park the rest downtown.

Edited November 2, 2021 by chris heff

[Estro]

LUMEN Field, where the Seahwaks play, and a stadium the Bills are rumored ti want to mimic cost $430M to build in 1999. Adjusted for inflation to the year 2020 that cost is $619M.  

 

For a new Bills stadium, located in OP, to cost $1.35B, more than double a stadium built in downtown metropolitan Seattle (where real estate costs waaayyyy more than Orchard Park) is truly remarkable. And this figure is inflation adjusted.

 

NFL owners have done a tremendous job convincing state governments that their teams need these $1.5B palaces in order to play. And why wouldn't they when nearly 50% of the funds are handouts.  Why the Bills would need a stadium that cost double Seattle's stadium is beyond comprehension.  The companies that build these palaces must shake their head in disbelief @ what they're able to charge.

 

I've never understood how the costs on these stadium builds have doubled and even tripled (inflation adjusted) over the least 15-20 years. It's comical.

[billykay]

1 hour ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

This is where I'm at too. It's a ton of money either way and the difference in cost between OP and downtown is mostly for infrastructure updates that the city could really benefit from anyways. Taxpayer dollars are probably going to make up the majority of the funds needed and I think a downtown stadium is the best bang for the city's buck. 

Ditto

[mjd1001]

22 minutes ago, Estro said:

LUMEN Field, where the Seahwaks play, and a stadium the Bills are rumored ti want to mimic cost $430M to build in 1999. Adjusted for inflation to the year 2020 that cost is $619M.  

 

For a new Bills stadium, located in OP, to cost $1.35B, more than double a stadium built in downtown metropolitan Seattle (where real estate costs waaayyyy more than Orchard Park) is truly remarkable. And this figure is inflation adjusted.

 

NFL owners have done a tremendous job convincing state governments that their teams need these $1.5B palaces in order to play. And why wouldn't they when nearly 50% of the funds are handouts.  Why the Bills would need a stadium that cost double Seattle's stadium is beyond comprehension.  The companies that build these palaces must shake their head in disbelief @ what they're able to charge.

 

I've never understood how the costs on these stadium builds have doubled and even tripled (inflation adjusted) over the least 15-20 years. It's comical.

I agree totally.

 

I know the 'inflation calculator' might not be a direct correlation to the cost of building a stadium, but really, these are getting out of hand.  You know the rabit hole I start going down when thinking about all this is....to play the game the team needs a grass (or artificial turf field) of about 1.5 acres. That is what they play on. Practice facilities, workout areas, offices...they are usually all separate from the stadium.  The Stadium is for the game.  For the 95%+ of those who watch football over television, the $Billion dollar stadium isn't needed, just the 1.5 Acres.  Now I know that isn't how things work, but do we really need to spend $1.5 Billion dollars for that concrete and steel structure around the field that services the 60k-90k people that show up?  There really isn't a way anymore to do it for CONSIDERABLY less?

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

How come there is no option for putting money into the structural integrity of what’s already there and adding coverage to that? The top of the stadium looks like it’s only 30 feet above the ground. It has to be the easiest stadium imaginable to build some sort of roof over. The entire thing is almost underground to begin with. That would probably be 1/4 cost and get almost everything we want.

 

Please read the study or at least the AP article.  It answers your question.

 

[LabattBlue]

https://www.wgrz.com/mobile/article/sports/nfl/future-of-the-bills/bills-in-buffalo-group-pushes-for-downtown-stadium-nfl-football/71-fbb3a38f-a966-49b4-b713-e9cf2710ac7a

[Fallser]

No Dome, we already have arena football every third week as it is. 

[Returntoglory]

Honestly. Isn't it time for the playing field (pun intended) to be the same league wide and for all stadiums be domed? 

[RyanC883]

Dome.  Better fan experience.  Also 12th man is a bigger advantage than weather, and a dome amplifies that. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by RyanC883

[Mrbojanglezs]

4 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

Semi-covered is enough. The guys will just need to pick em up and put em down in the snow. This is Buffalo, play in the weather

 

I feel like if your spending 1.3 billion + on a new stadium it would be very dumb to limit it's use as a venue for other events because muh football needs to be played in cold weather. Make it a roof with flexibility for it to be a multi-use facility

[LeGOATski]

The new build includes cheerleaders locker rooms.... 👀

[fridge]

5 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

Fans may not want a dome but i would bet a lot of money players do. 

 

Players dont like playing in cold weather. 

 

That's the point.

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, zonabb said:

Been repeatedly saying it here multiple times.... it was cheaper and IS going to be in OP because of the added infrastructure and land acquisition costs for downtown. Anyone willing to approach this from a rational (i.e., not a fan's) perspective, understands the costs here. The city's sewer and water infrastructure sucks and needs a major upgrade to carry the capacity of a new stadium. Plus parking and other amenities. In OP, the county own's the land so land costs are effectivelty zero. Downtown they need to buy, or take via eminent domain, lots of property currently in private hands, or in govt/quasi-govt hands. Plus the added time and costs of any eminent domain process when the inevitable hold outs happen. In OP you simply extend the existing sewer and water systems to the new site, no offsite improvements needed, a la downtown.

 

And because the Pegulas, I think, plan to ask for money but also not be greedy, OP has always been the place it will go. Unless the state and city, both bad at development and fiscal management, decide to waste money to build it downtown. 

Did you just say that a multi billionaire would could write a check for the new stadium and still be a multi billionaire isn’t greedy when he puts his hand out for money that comes out of wage earners paychecks?? 
 

Let’s be clear here, the Pegulas in no way need public monies on any level to build a stadium.