Has league-wide officiating gotten worse?

[K-9]

1 hour ago, BTB said:

What would you expect?  Guys being fired and hired on a weekly basis?

I expect dedicated, full time, regularly trained officials whose eligibility to officiate depends on maintaining a minimum grade performance from week to week. You fall below that level and another from the same pool of dedicated, full time officials rotates in. Given the amount inconsistency and subjectivity in calls from week to week, it shouldn’t be a problem keeping everyone employed. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, stosh64 said:

It's just mind boggling to me that the NFL, a multi billion dollar operation, uses part time, amateur officials.

 

They need full time professionals that face reprimands when their calls are sub-par.

 

It's not F#n rocket science.  Blows my mind that the people that have the power don't care.

 

The NFL has a system for evaluating/grading individual refs performance.  I've linked it here if you are actually interested in knowing the process:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1867480-how-are-nfl-refs-held-accountable-for-their-performance

 

How would anything change?  These guys do 17 games a year.  That wouldn't change if they were full time.  These guy spend a lot of time studying video and the rule book/updates etc year round.  How would that change if they were hanging out in some ref office from January to August?

 

 

But how have "full time refs" worked out in the other major sports?  Umpiring in the MLB is awful.  That's the one league where they all could very easily be replaced and have AI reads or balls and strikes and simple replay for all plays at the bases, etc.  

 

NBA? They can't tell a block form a charge, never call palming/carry/travel, etc.  It's a mess. 

 

Lets say the NFL this off season told all the current refs that they to go full time or quit---thats' a ton of experience walking out the door.  How would 124 new full timers make you feel better?  And what happens down the road  when, inevitably they blow the same calls?  

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

if thy are graded  they are not improving and learning - same crews making same mistakes. crews are also not learning from other crews mistakes. 

Yep. And you’d think the league would recognize that by now. 

[eball]

I don't know, but board-wide posting certainly has!

[Robert Paulson]

How would anything change?  These guys do 17 games a year.  That wouldn't change if they were full time.  These guy spend a lot of time studying video and the rule book/updates etc year round.  How would that change if they were hanging out in some ref office from January to August?

 

in season they could work wednesday -sunday/monday to review every game together via zoom and be 'taught' what the error was, what the good call was, what should be done in the future. saturday-monday is travel and reffing their game. 

 

this way everyone is hearing the same thing at the same time from the same person. 

 

right now these guys sell insurance m-f, hop on a plane. get together Saturday night to watch some film, ref a game Sunday and go home. they get a report some time during the week and may be have a quick zoom call mid week with the highlights/low lights. 

 

this could easily be a full time 50hrs/week gig 7-8 months/year July/Aug-Jan/Feb with the rest vacation. at $200k/year i think that would be a sweet job. 

 

simple Continuous Improvement practices all season long

Edited November 2, 2021 by Robert Paulson

[GETTOTHE50]

ive always said, call all the pre-snap and post-play penalties you want, and let the players determine the play when the ball is snapped. Thankfully, we have a good enough QB to where the refs dont affect the games nearly as much anymore. But they absolutely are horrible.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I can honestly say I think the crew for Bills Miami was horrible 

 

 

Tua intentional grounding — not called 

 

JA intentional grounding — called 

[ndirish1978]

It has been pretty bad this year. Worse so because of the ridiculous emphasis on taunting. 

[TwistofFate]

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

No it hasn't.

 

The rules are getting more and more complex every year like what is a catch, what is roughing the passer, etc etc.

 

Then on top of that you have multiple camera angles in super slow motion and they highlight the bad calls over and over again.

 

So it APPEARS as though officiating is getting worse but given the challenges i think it has stayed the same if not improved slightly.

Then it's about time refs wear body cams and their POV after they throw a flag is shown on the big screen. 

[Buffalo Junction]

8 hours ago, RiotAct said:

doesn’t seem any worse than previous seasons.

 

 

One way to attempt to fix it would be to hire full-time refs that train and watch game tape like crazy on their downtime, instead of using guys who are  gym teachers and financial consultants in their “day jobs”.

Best part time job ever….. $205k a year with total job security and no accountability. 

[pigpen65]

The game was close though right? In fact, every prime time have is close. I'm sure it's purely coincidental /s

[The Wiz]

8 hours ago, BTB said:

You don’t think they are graded weekly, and informed of said grade?

If only officials could actual fail when they are graded.  They are basically given participation trophies at this point. 

 

"You threw a flag today! Good work!"

Edited November 3, 2021 by The Wiz

[The Red King]

The other side is, what can be done?  Full-time refs have been one suggestion.  You could add more, but then the field gets packed with zebras.

 

We have the All-22, could have a ref in the booth for each player (the NFL could afford it).  Calls wouldn't be missed, but with that many cooks in the kitchen calls would skyrocket and there would be a flag every play.  Could do a lesser form with booth ref cams on the QB, ball carrier and recievers/DBs?  Even then there would be a lot more flags.

 

Complaining about officiating is easy, I was livid Sunday, but it's much harder thinking of a solution.

[gonzo1105]

I’m not sure officiating has gotten worse per say as technology has gotten so good to show every little error they make because their are HD cameras, multiple angles, super slow motions etc. 

 

Also I don’t think their necessarily hiring the best officials to move up to that level but promoting based on nepotism with officials being moved up because of their fathers, the hiring of less qualified workers due to equality issues and the NFL acting like they care because their in the public eye etc

 

That’s my opinion it’s a combo of things 

[The Red King]

58 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I’m not sure officiating has gotten worse per say as technology has gotten so good to show every little error they make because their are HD cameras, multiple angles, super slow motions etc. 

 

Also I don’t think their necessarily hiring the best officials to move up to that level but promoting based on nepotism with officials being moved up because of their fathers, the hiring of less qualified workers due to equality issues and the NFL acting like they care because their in the public eye etc

 

That’s my opinion it’s a combo of things 

 

True, but it's not just hard to see things.  I mean that's one thing, yes, but even blatent, in plain sight PI mugging no-calls like during the Colts/Titans OT are missed.  That has nothing to do with camera angles.

 

Can't even allow penalties to be challenged.  We saw how that worked out after they tried it with PI after a blown call in the NFC Championship game.  Refs refused to overturn anything.

[Patrick Duffy]

Kinda seems like it gets a little bit worse each year to me. 

[BuffaloRebound]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

The other side is, what can be done?  Full-time refs have been one suggestion.  You could add more, but then the field gets packed with zebras.

 

We have the All-22, could have a ref in the booth for each player (the NFL could afford it).  Calls wouldn't be missed, but with that many cooks in the kitchen calls would skyrocket and there would be a flag every play.  Could do a lesser form with booth ref cams on the QB, ball carrier and recievers/DBs?  Even then there would be a lot more flags.

 

Complaining about officiating is easy, I was livid Sunday, but it's much harder thinking of a solution.

I actually think you need a camera on every player.  That’s the only solution.  The selectivity of flags thrown today is what drives people nuts.  Players will stop holding if it’s called consistently.  The problem the League has is the majority of penalties called could be called on every play and fans rightfully ask why it was called in that instance and not another.  

[The Red King]

Here's a wild idea, give the refs a challenge flag.  They're human. They make mistakes, get things in their eyes, etc.  I know they can huddle, but that's just a matter of asking if anyone saw anything.  Maybe give them one challenge per half where they can stop and review video footage, as if a coach threw a flag.

 

I know it sounds crazy, it might be, but like I said, refs are human.

[Patrick Duffy]

5 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Here's a wild idea, give the refs a challenge flag.  They're human. They make mistakes, get things in their eyes, etc.  I know they can huddle, but that's just a matter of asking if anyone saw anything.  Maybe give them one challenge per half where they can stop and review video footage, as if a coach threw a flag.

 

I know it sounds crazy, it might be, but like I said, refs are human.

Yeah, I'm not sure what or how something could be done and knowing they don't want to make the games longer....but it would be nice if at the very least some of those "obviously terrible calls/bad game changing calls/non-calls" can be reviewed.

[Dukestreetking]

Complaint: the on-field review process, incl the tech.

 

1a: NY makes the final call. If so, why are game refs even looking at video? Time waste and other issues.

 

1b: Single NY source gone this year (Riveron) replaced by multiple review officials. Not transparent.

 

Do coaches know exactly, on xyz play, who might review? If no, affects decision to challenge, as they won't know tendencies.

 

2. The field review screen is just weird to me.

 

Challenge flag thrown. Call for the "pissboy" to run out w a clunky-looking monitor. And though it has a strap, they always hold it. Different povs, light impact, possible shaking.

 

 

 

[BananaB]

Refs are terrible and the league don’t give a *****

[clayboy54]

The underlying issue is that there are WAY TOO MANY RULES. What's more is, they keep adding more rules.

 

I get that the climate today requires much greater emphasis on player safety, especially on head injuries. So, we'll add pages of variations on illegal hits to the head or defenseless player. Then, you add in the rules that promote more scoring, "because the fans want to see lots of scoring." Now, we add another stack of pages of  variations on illegal contact rules to limit the defense. Finally, we'll add the obligatory Tom Brady-inspired pages of rules to not allow touching the preferred star QB.

 

You also have an encyclopedia of existing rules, some that were written back in the early days of football and realistically don't even apply to today's game.

 

While we're at it, let's add some "points-of-emphasis" rules to spice up an almost impossible task of understanding the rule book.

 

Nobody could be expected to officiate the complete NFL rule book. Unfortunately, it is in the hands of officials to pick and choose rules to enforce on their own, based upon those that they do understand, and in the way they interpret them, individually.

 

No two officiating crews will interpret and enforce the same way. So, to the fans it appears that nobody knows what the heck they're doing. In fact, the individual crews know what they're doing on a given Sunday, but it certainly is not what the other crews are doing during the same time slot.

 

It's sad, really.

[blacklabel]

I’ve been saying it for years, refs are ruining the game. I get the sense the NFL wants the refs to have an impact in every game for some reason. I know it’s a difficult job but there are levels of subjectivity to it, unless you’re Carl “Chode” Cheffers who would throw a flag for a player farting if he could. 
 

It sucks all around and I truly feel the entire rules and officiating system needs a complete overhaul. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Unpopular opinion.  But I thinks it’s better but the job is way harder than people realize.  Expectations are way up.   Look at the 80s games on YouTube.   You will see ints called that were 100% not ints.  Same with fumbles and tds.   They get those right now.   They get catches right way more than a few years back when any little thing made a play not a catch.  
 

holding PI and other subjective calls are still inconsistent and are the reason for almost all criticism.   The pi replay replay tried was awful.   Might need to rethink that some way.
 

if you are looking for holding or pi or hands to the face on a scoring play you will likely find. It.  Do you really want all those called back?  
 

also bills fans like fans of any team can point to all the non calls that killed their team.   Yet they have little to say about non calls that would have gone against the bills.  My point is there is a big fanatical bias to ref criticism.   

Edited November 4, 2021 by mattynh

[Scott7975]

On 11/2/2021 at 2:08 PM, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I think by far football is the most complicated and fastest moving - with the most moving parts

 

 

 

Perhaps if its so fast moving it would help to lower the average age of an NFL official... 51 years old.

[Scott7975]

On 11/2/2021 at 5:07 PM, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I can honestly say I think the crew for Bills Miami was horrible 

 

 

Tua intentional grounding — not called 

 

JA intentional grounding — called 

 

The funny part about the JA one is the head referee called Josh down or in the grasp.  Later it was ruled IG.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Perhaps if its so fast moving it would help to lower the average age of an NFL official... 51 years old.

 

Perhaps, but college football with significantly younger officials is even worse.

 

I doubt it is their age as they seem to get to positions and run with these guys.

 

I think things happen so quickly and players react so quickly that it is easy to miss or call something slight on one occasion, but the next time let it go.

 

 

[dlonce]

With the advent of multiple camera angles, new absurd judgements penalty calls and rule changes, you will never find consistency from one crew to the next.

 

The solution? Let the players actually play football and only call blatant penalties. I notice the allowance of pass interference this year, while calling taunting and Ricky tacky holding on big plays.

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:53 PM, LeGOATski said:

This is some sort of backwards thinking, though.

 

Don't fix what ain't workin?

Where did they say don't fix what's not working? They just said they've always been bad. 

[Thurman#1]

On 11/3/2021 at 1:17 AM, The Red King said:

 

So, my question is two-fold.  First, is it just me, or does officiating overall this season seem noticably worse across the entire league then prior seasons?

 

 

 

No, of course not.

 

It always cracks me up how people moan about this. Games are lost probably fifty times more often because of bad plays made by players than bad plays by refs.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Thurman#1

[MJS]

People have been complaining about officiating since the beginning of time.

 

No, I don't think it is worse. And honestly, fans are often very wrong about a lot of the calls or no calls that they complain about.

 

Yes, the officials miss things sometimes. Sometimes they make bad calls. Sometimes it is really bad. But most of the time it is fine.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Perhaps, but college football with significantly younger officials is even worse.

 

I doubt it is their age as they seem to get to positions and run with these guys.

 

I think things happen so quickly and players react so quickly that it is easy to miss or call something slight on one occasion, but the next time let it go.

 

 

 

I realize it will never be perfect and some things will get missed.  Things like Groot helmet getting ripped off, false start, off sides... those things should never get missed.

 

On another note... I think any game changing type call should be reviewable.  I don't care if it adds a few minutes to the game.  If its a game changer... I want the crap right.

[Buffarukus]

you have to think that with this much technology and money available that the obvious mistakes are at this point purposeful. when the watching audience can see a zoomed in slow motion flag wrongfully called and yet there is no overturn, and the league has the same access. what other conclusion is there? i understand that many rules are subjective but to not have a system where obvious mistakes are not immediately corrected without threat of penalizing a team a time out for attempting is crazy. why is obvious stuff on coaches who have a hundred other things to worry about. challenges should be for close calls.

 

made a bad call. the entire world sees it was wrong. buzz in the earpiece. pick up the flag..done.

 

the fact we still have refs who do not automatically call ANY possible turnover, as a turnover, and let it play out. ALL TURNOVERS ARE REVIEWED! its a good signal that the system is either broken or corrupt.

 

not sure how people still bet any large sums of money in a sport that seems to not use whats available to elevate the integrity of its officiating.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Buffarukus

[LabattBlue]

I always thought the crying about the refs would go away when the Bills started winning.  I guess I was wrong. 

[Dukestreetking]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

People have been complaining about officiating since the beginning of time.

 

No doubt.

 

"But I chopped his head off waaay before he sliced my femoral artery" yelled the Gladiator to the Coliseum back judge.

[njbuff]

Problem is that there are too many rules to enforce.

 

It is almost impossible to play defense in today's day and age.

 

Just imagine if Ronnie Lott played in today's NFL, he would have been thrown out of the league by now. 

 

Just think about that, one of the greatest DB's of all time would be rendered almost obsolete in today's NFL because incompetent officials simply have TOO MANY rules to enforce.

[Buffarukus]

12 minutes ago, BTB said:

I always thought the crying about the refs would go away when the Bills started winning.  I guess I was wrong. 

 

you were wrong because "crying" about refs has nothing to do with a personal team to some. it has to do with the league having a consistent standard. if i see a penalty that helps or hurts the team that shouldn't have been called i think the same thing. its 2021 and we are still watching bad calls get upheld for no reason when there is so much out there that can easily fix it. 

 

the non calls is a different story that i dont see a way of changing.

[The Red King]

On 11/4/2021 at 6:56 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, of course not.

 

It always cracks me up how people moan about this. Games are lost probably fifty times more often because of bad plays made by players than bad plays by refs.

 

Not arguing any of that, but they are two separate points.  I'm looking at league-wide officiating as a whole, and not moaning at all.  The officiating in the Miami game was horrific, but it was not the sole or main reason the game was close as long as it was.

 

But your post almost suggests bad officiating is fine, because in the end it's up to the teams to overcome bad officiating, and I'm not sure that was the point you were looking to make.