Tonight’s Officiating.....

[Just in Atlanta]

Over officious jerks.

 

The bad flags went both ways tho. That roughing the passer was an atrocious call.

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Was fine.  When people were bitching all first half about the officiating, the Chiefs had 6 calls against while the Bills had five.  The only bad call was the Morse holding.  No defending that call but they made up for it with the roughing call the next play - which was a good call as the defender hit Allen with weight coming down on him.   I'm so sick of all the posts criticizing the refs. White PI was obvious. Dawkins hold was tic tac but was also obvious.  Poyer personal foul was obvious.  The roughing on Oliver could have been a no call but they are paid to protect the superstar QBs.  

Half the posters on this board don't even know the rules.  People thought the holding call the Bills declined would have been 1st and 20.  

 

 

 

You’re sick of posts criticizing refs Ethan?  Lol.  Seriously?  
 

You should overlook them and move on- don’t let it bother you

[Bob in STL]

My complaint about the officiating was the offensive holding calls that were inconsequential to the play with the RB well past the point of infraction.  The Bills got hit with several calls like this (10 penalties, 101 yards) that actually took points off the board.  You can call holding on most plays, some of the holding calls were ticky tack.  
 

The DPI calls aided a KC touchdown but our DBs were playing close and feisty.  
 

What made the game hard to watch were the announcers, Chris Collinsworth in particular.   He glorified Mahommes way too much.  He made stupid comments like “Allen was mediocre” his first two years.  He did mention that Allen was more raw coming out of college but that was it.  Allen’s first two years had ups and downs and some of it should be attributed to a weak OL, the lack of any real WR weapons, and him being thrust into the games before he was ready.  Mahommes, on the other hand, sat out his rookie year and the Chiefs were a playoff team when he got there. Totally different scenario and I wish one of these Prime Time big shots could explain this.  What you should have seen in Allen’s first two seasons was a rocket arm, a strong runner, a strong will to improve, a guy that wants to win, and a leader.   Yes, he had rough edges to clean up but that’s not the whole story.  
 

I think Collinsworth embarrassed himself, if that’s possible, with some of his gushing over the Chiefs and Mahommes. 
 

[Robert Paulson]

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

I am so glad that we have finally gotten to the level of quality where we can overcome the officials and their inevitable incompetence. The only way this is going to change is if the coaches get one challenge per game that is for officiating only. The game is just too fast now and trying to call penalties from a bad angle on what "appears" to be a foul is just dumb. Perhaps the officials should just stick with egregious penalties only.

 

 

This would be useless. They would never overturn anything. The league tried this with pass interference a few years ago and it was a waste of time,.

[billsfan1959]

9 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

It was going both ways, at least...

 

The worst streak of officiating for me wasn't even the Morse hold/Clark roughing series. 

 

The worst was the no-call PI on Felton and then the PI called on Tre on the uncatchable ball. That fueled the almost-comeback as the Chiefs subsequently scored to make it an 11 point game.

 

You could tell at that point that the refs were hoping to get this game closer to the betting line.

 

I think there were bad calls and non-calls on both sides. However, what frustrated me the most was that, going into this game, there was a lot public chatter about the Chiefs' DBs getting away with a lot of holding/PI and the refs pretty much allowed them to continue that same style of play.

 

I posted these in another thread and they are just a couple of examples:

 

2nd half

Bills punt because Diggs unable to hold on to a 1st down catch with, IMO, clear pass interference not called.

 

 

Bills punt because Diggs unable to make 1st down catch with, IMO, another clear pass interference not called.

 

 

Like I said, it went both ways. But, IMO, I think the Chiefs benefited more from the calls/non-calls than the Bills.

[Greatdane21]

This was a bad crew ,flag happy and easily swayed by Andy Reed!

[SoCal Deek]

There are bad call in every game. What set this one apart is how many times the calls came on crucial 3rd downs....for and against both teams. Because of that, 3rd down became just like every long kick return, where you were just EXPECTING a flag to be thrown. And, it generally was.

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Somehow the officiating crew turned an offensive holding call on the Chiefs to 1st and 5 rather than 1st and 20 in the red zone.  That was cute.

Saw that and was confused because I thought the penalty had been on them, I mean how the ***** does that work.

[DJB]

12 hours ago, Special K said:

......was atrocious!!!

 

How could such a horrible crew be tasked with such an important game??

 

They seemed to be as much in the tank for the Chiefs to win as Collingsworth was!!

 

The league needs to investigate these clowns immediately.

 

Bills still win by 18 even with the Zebras in the Chiefs pocket....that’s how good the Bills are, folks!!

 

PFF graded the refs performance a 97%. 

[Robert Paulson]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

 

PFF graded the refs performance a 97%. 

of course they did

[Scott7975]

14 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Was fine.  When people were bitching all first half about the officiating, the Chiefs had 6 calls against while the Bills had five.  The only bad call was the Morse holding.  No defending that call but they made up for it with the roughing call the next play - which was a good call as the defender hit Allen with weight coming down on him.   I'm so sick of all the posts criticizing the refs. White PI was obvious. Dawkins hold was tic tac but was also obvious.  Poyer personal foul was obvious.  The roughing on Oliver could have been a no call but they are paid to protect the superstar QBs.  

Half the posters on this board don't even know the rules.  People thought the holding call the Bills declined would have been 1st and 20.  

 

 

 

 

If you are sick of something then don't read it.  You literally came into a thread about officiating and what fans feel about it.  Don't read it.  Ignore it and read the next thread.  It's like saying you are so sick of eating McDonalds and then proceed to go to McDonalds and place an order.

 

As for your take on officiating.  I think you are ridiculous.  If you don't see the problem in officiating then you don't pay attention.  Yeah sure penalties are called even by count.  How many first downs were given to the Chiefs after the Bills D stopped them compared to the flip side.  I think you will find that completely lop sided.  Are some calls legit?  Sure they are but there are also blatantly obvious calls that weren't called the other way.  There are also calls that are stupid.  There are also calls that are called and the same thing happens and its ignored.  There are ref crews that call everything different than the next ref crew.  Thats where I find fault.  Officiating in the NFL is ridiculous.

 

On to your last comment about fans not knowing all the rules and your example... I was one of the people wondering why they declined.  As soon as I hit the submit button I realized the position on the field.  It wasn't because I didn't know the rules.  It's because I was so deep into the excitement of the game as well as being distracted by the GDT that I forgot KC was so close to their end zone.  I explained that in the game day thread.  Stop using that as an example.  It's weak.  

 

Also there are so many rules in the NFL that each have their own grey areas that not everything is cut and dry.  Thats why people have a different opinion on a lot of calls.  Thats why a lot of calls are also wrong sometimes.  Not every fan has to know every minute detail of everything involving the NFL and interpret it the same exact way to be a fan of the Buffalo Bills.  So when you want to call someone out for something like that all I can say is go F yourself.  You aren't perfect and you don't know everything either.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Scott7975

[Ethan in Cleveland]

13 hours ago, Kwai San said:

Sorry dude but the Oliver call was ABSOLUTELY BULLSHEET!!!!!  The others yes they were calls.....what pissed me off....a 15 year college official here -  was the complete lack of holding by the Chefs that were holding calls against the Bills.  Carl Cheffers crew should be blown up and...well no one should be allowed to call another game again.  They were bad....sorry but they were.

Ok. Next time Allen is hit at or below the knee lets see what the board does. 

Pretty sure they got the Chiefs for holding at least once - Orlando Brown.  

They called OPI on both sides.

The only call I can't at least somewhat defend is the hold on Morse. The flag came out late and Morse didn't do anything. Maybe it was on another guy and the replay only showed a sideline view not from behind the line. So maybe there was something we could not see. 

The DPI on White could have been a no call but White was making a lot of contact with Kelce when they fell. They almost never call the ball uncatchable. 

[RochesterLifer]

14 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Half the posters on this board don't even know the rules. 

 

 

 

Are you implying you are more knowledgeable than half the posters on this board? Your posting track record doesn't support that theory.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If you are sick of something then don't read it.  You literally came into a thread about officiating and what fans feel about it.  Don't read it.  Ignore it and read the next thread.  It's like saying you are so sick of eating McDonalds and then proceed to go to McDonalds and place an order.

 

As for your take on officiating.  I think you are ridiculous.  If you don't see the problem in officiating then you don't pay attention.  Yeah sure penalties are called even by count.  How many first downs were given to the Chiefs after the Bills D stopped them compared to the flip side.  I think you will find that completely lop sided.  Are some calls legit?  Sure they are but there are also blatantly obvious calls that weren't called the other way.  Thats where I find fault.

 

On to your last comment about fans not knowing all the rules and your example... I was one of the people wondering why they declined.  As soon as I hit the submit button I realized the position on the field.  It wasn't because I didn't know the rules.  It's because I was so deep into the excitement of the game as well as being distracted by the GDT that I forgot KC was so close to their end zone.  I explained that in the game day thread.  Stop using that as an example.  It's weak.  

 

Also there are so many rules in the NFL that each have their own grey areas that not everything is cut and dry.  Thats why people have a different opinion on a lot of calls.  Thats why a lot of calls are also wrong sometimes.  Not every fan has to know every minute detail of everything involving the NFL and interpret it the same exact way to be a fan of the Buffalo Bills.  So when you want to call someone out for something like that all I can say is go F yourself.  You aren't perfect and you don't know everything either.

As I'm not the only one in this thread that shares my opinion it likely is not "ridiculous".

As for complaint about the posts, I was referring to the in game posts.  I dont mind people disagreeing with a call. That's the fun of sports. But posting the refs or the NFL want the Chiefs to win is in your words ridiculous. 

And keep it classy. Telling me to F off is not appropriate.

 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

As I'm not the only one in this thread that shares my opinion it likely is not "ridiculous".

As for complaint about the posts, I was referring to the in game posts.  I dont mind people disagreeing with a call. That's the fun of sports. But posting the refs or the NFL want the Chiefs to win is in your words ridiculous. 

And keep it classy. Telling me to F off is not appropriate.

 

 

Calling fans out because they believe something you don't as if they are idiots is also not appropriate.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Are you implying you are more knowledgeable than half the posters on this board? Your posting track record doesn't support that theory.

Find one factual error post I have made and I will donate $100 to charity of your choice.

Chandler corrected me on the spelling of Seymour Knox and I thanked him for that.

[pocoboy]

My point of view (for what little it's worth):

• I want to complain less about the officials.
• Social media allows for immediate reaction to every play.
• In the moment, every play appears to have a potential infraction if you look hard enough.
• Thus, most of us find that - especially when our team is losing - the referees miss calls on the opponent while call too many on their team.

The real issue is when there is a double standard. The roughing calls & the OPI calls were pretty consistent. Where things got problematic was that there was a clear disparity in the Bills defenders being able to treat the Chiefs receivers with the same physicality as what they assumed their opponent would be allowed. Unfortunately for the Bills, a few of those calls were made on the very first drive, and as the game went on you might gather the impression that the Chiefs defenders got the message, didn't play it quite as loose, and then got burned on 2-3 deeper passes because of it.

 

There was also a disparity in the way it cost Bills opps to get off the field (or extend their own drives). That first drive was littered with drive extending flags. Then after the KR fumble there was a marginal o-hold on Dawkins which negated a 3rd down conversion and 1&G. Follow that up with the Morse hold, that was another one that had been taken away. So in that regard, the "by the letter" roughing the passer call was pretty much just desserts.

[billsbackto81]

I've been wondering if there's an unwritten law were analysts and sport show hosts aren't allowed to speak on officiating. I've watch several shows today and officiating was never mentioned at all. Even the most casual observers can see something wasn't right with the calls at the most inopportune times for the Bills. When KC fell behind big the refs did everything possible to prolong their drives with questionable calls on 3rd and 4th downs. It was hilarious and saddening at the same time.

Edited October 11, 2021 by billsbackto81

[Kwai San]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Ok. Next time Allen is hit at or below the knee lets see what the board does. 

Pretty sure they got the Chiefs for holding at least once - Orlando Brown.  

They called OPI on both sides.

The only call I can't at least somewhat defend is the hold on Morse. The flag came out late and Morse didn't do anything. Maybe it was on another guy and the replay only showed a sideline view not from behind the line. So maybe there was something we could not see. 

The DPI on White could have been a no call but White was making a lot of contact with Kelce when they fell. They almost never call the ball uncatchable. 

Sorry dude but in NO WAY did Oliver impact in a dangerous way at all.....Did.  Not.  Happen.

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

I've been wondering if there's an unwritten law were analysts and sport show hosts aren't allowed to speak on officiating. I've watch several shows today and officiating was never mentioned at all. Even the most casual observers can see something wasn't right with the calls at the most inopportune times for the Bills. When KC fell behind big the refs did everything possible to prolong their drives with questionable calls on 3rd and 4th downs. It was hilarious and saddening at the same time.

Unless it's a pretty textbook putting your weight into the QB roughing the passer call on Josh Allen you're not allowed to say much of anything.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Ok. Next time Allen is hit at or below the knee lets see what the board does. 

Pretty sure they got the Chiefs for holding at least once - Orlando Brown.  

They called OPI on both sides.

The only call I can't at least somewhat defend is the hold on Morse. The flag came out late and Morse didn't do anything. Maybe it was on another guy and the replay only showed a sideline view not from behind the line. So maybe there was something we could not see. 

The DPI on White could have been a no call but White was making a lot of contact with Kelce when they fell. They almost never call the ball uncatchable. 

No they didn't.  Only penalty called on KC defense was roughing the passer.  If there was a pi, it was declined.  Tell me when?

[Eastport bills]

Colin Cowherd said that the officiating in our game was the worst performance in years and the team should be suspended. The amount of bad holding and personal fouls called should have decided the game if not for our dominance.

[Adam727]

17 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Colin Cowherd said that the officiating in our game was the worst performance in years and the team should be suspended. The amount of bad holding and personal fouls called should have decided the game if not for our dominance.

I've had a day to get over it and am still upset about the officiating last night.  Refs have a tough job in real time so I always try to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I usually roll my eyes when I see someone say the NFL is the WWE... but that's really how it felt last night.  I can't think of a game I've ever watched where the officiating felt this one sided.  If the game had been a close one (within 7 points) the refs would have almost certainly decided the outcome.  It wasn't just bad calls, it was completely inconsistent calls that always seemed to happen at the worst possible times for Buffalo.. over and over again all night.  That holding call on Morse.. I still don't understand what someone thinks they might have seen.  KC seemed like they got most of the breaks from the refs when we played them in the AFCCG last year too.  This Bills team feels like they can beat anyone, I would hate to see them lose a close game in the playoffs to the refs..  

 

Is there anything to actually do about this?  Can one of the reporters that reads this board ask McD about it in a press conference?  Can the Bills file a complaint?  Would that do anything?

 

Or just move on and focus on next week's game against the Titans?

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Adam727

[Eastport bills]

19 minutes ago, Adam727 said:

I've had a day to get over it and am still upset about the officiating last night.  Refs have a tough job in real time so I always try to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I usually roll my eyes when I see someone say the NFL is the WWE... but that's really how it felt last night.  I can't think of a game I've ever watched where the officiating felt this one sided.  If the game had been a close one (within 7 points) the refs would have almost certainly decided the outcome.  It wasn't just bad calls, it was completely inconsistent calls that always seemed to happen at the worst possible times for Buffalo.. over and over again all night.  That holding call on Morse.. I still don't understand what someone thinks they might have seen.  KC seemed like they got most of the breaks from the refs when we played them in the AFCCG last year too.  This Bills team feels like they can beat anyone, I would hate to see them lose a close game in the playoffs to the refs..  

 

Is there anything to actually do about this?  Can one of the reporters that reads this board ask McD about it in a press conference?  Can the Bills file a complaint?  Would that do anything?

 

Or just move on and focus on next week's game against the Titans?

 

 

I tell my kid don't dwell on the officiating because it usually evens out but he gets so exasperated it affects his enjoyment of our great performances. The Bills, to their credit, just overcome every obstacle from weather delays to one-sided, hometown attempts to steal games by poor officiating. I think this team gets confidence by winning in hostile conditions. 

[eball]

I’m still trying to figure out who Dawkins held on that running play after we recovered the muffed kickoff.

[TC in St. Louis]

My friend texted me earlier in the game and asked how are we going to win this game with this horrible officiating?   I said work hard, playing. That’s all you can do. That’s what they did, and the right team won the game.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No they didn't.  Only penalty called on KC defense was roughing the passer.  If there was a pi, it was declined.  Tell me when?

OPI. Called against Gordon.  

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Saw that and was confused because I thought the penalty had been on them, I mean how the ***** does that work.

The hold was by a WR downfield.  They mark off the yards from the point of the foul.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, Kwai San said:

Sorry dude but in NO WAY did Oliver impact in a dangerous way at all.....Did.  Not.  Happen.

It did happen.  You can argue was it forcible or not but it happened. 

 

Here is the rule:

 

A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him.

 

I think a no-call would have been very appropriate but the refs are trained to protect the QB.  Let's hope Allen is never hit low, but if he is let's hope he gets the benefit of the call too.  

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

The hold was by a WR downfield.  They mark off the yards from the point of the foul.

There has to be a situational clause there or something otherwise how is that even a penalty?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, eball said:

I’m still trying to figure out who Dawkins held on that running play after we recovered the muffed kickoff.

I believe they said it was Frank Clark but not sure

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

There has to be a situational clause there or something otherwise how is that even a penalty?

No it's just the rule. 

 

Offensive holding beyond the line of scrimmage is penalized from the spot of the foul.  So a hold 15 yards downfield is penalized 10 yards making it 1st and 5

 

I believe it always has been that way but I could be wrong about that.

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I believe they said it was Frank Clark but not sure

No it's just the rule. 

 

Offensive holding beyond the line of scrimmage is penalized from the spot of the foul.  So a hold 15 yards downfield is penalized 10 yards making it 1st and 5

 

I believe it always has been that way but I could be wrong about that.

I mean that's dumb but besides that if you're going to do it that way how the hell do you replay the down? There's like no reason not to do it.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I mean that's dumb but besides that if you're going to do it that way how the hell do you replay the down? There's like no reason not to do it.

Every accepted penalty results in a replayed down  - except intentional grounding and unsportsmanlike conduct after the whistle.

[Búfalo Blanco]

I think us Bills fans have a complex, and rightly so, watching so many games of obvious bias against the Patriots and Brady. No one will ever convince me there wasn’t more to those matchups. My theory (JMO) is that sometimes the League is trying to create parity, more viewership, etc. by keeping the games close. Then, there’s also the Vegas spread theory. But more often, it’s just poor officiating. True, Buffalo was playing KC’s “holding” game against them this time as well. The Patriots have pulled that stuff for years and gotten away with it. The difference for Buffalo in these horribly officiated games now? We finally have a QB who can overcome the ridiculous penalties. 

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Every accepted penalty results in a replayed down  - except intentional grounding and unsportsmanlike conduct after the whistle.

If it's only a 10 yard penalty enforced then what's the incentive not to 10 yards or out?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

If it's only a 10 yard penalty enforced then what's the incentive not to 10 yards or out?

Well first you need to have a successful play that nets more than 10 yards and the block would have to be at least ten yards downfield. Think how often that actually happens.  Pretty rare.  Most blocks are within a few feet or behind the LOS.  And let's say you score a TD because of an illegal hold 20 yards from the LOS.  The score is wiped out.  

[Billsfan1972]

5 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

OPI. Called against Gordon.  

The hold was by a WR downfield.  They mark off the yards from the point of the foul.  

Gordon plays Offense, not Defense.  The Chiefs Defense was called for one penalty all game.  

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Every accepted penalty results in a replayed down  - except intentional grounding and unsportsmanlike conduct after the whistle.

Illegal pass beyond the line of scrimmage too. 

[Buffalo Boy]

   Sitting here rewatching part of second half before work.

   A few plays earlier, Diggs are getting hooked on a 3/10 play and they don’t flag it. 
   White is actually getting pulled by Kelcie who’s right hand is around and behind Whites shoulder. But, on the two replays the ball isn’t even visible because it is that high and that far out of bounds( and the camera shot).

HTF are any of these jokers refs????? 

[CircleTheWagons99]

Now the world is complaining about the officiating because KC lost. 

[BFLO]

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/roughing-the-passer/

https://twitter.com/MarkEnnis/status/1447408923615576068?s=20

Roughing the Mahomes was called on #91 Ed Oliver. Despite the words coming out of Collinsworth's useless mouth the hit was neither late or illegal for "below or at the knees" 

1. The hit was not late as defined by the rule. Oliver had launched himself while Mahomes still had the ball and makes contact without taking any steps after the ball was released. "The Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release"

2. The hit area was not illegal, Mahomes was in the air with neither foot on the ground, and Oliver was being "blocked/fouled" into a lower point of attack by the O-line(Oliver was held by the chiefs o-lineman and sort of tackled from behind). "A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him". 

#50 Rousseau also hit Mahomes on this play, and was technically late as he takes 2 steps. He was also blocked/fouled from behind by the chiefs o-line. Roussea basically just loosely wrapped up Mahomes's legs from behind and bumps his head into Mahomes butt. Not much force or violence too it

This was called holding 1 play before the roughing on Allen.  
https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1447416098446401537?s=20

https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1447417193654734850?s=20

There was an egregious missed holding call favoring the Bills on this play before the roughing takes place, can't find a clip of it. Guess the refs decided to let it go after the phantom holding on the previous play?
 
1. The hit was late. Clark takes one step after Allen released the pass and makes contact with Allen(legal). He then takes a 2nd step to start to drive Allen into the ground(Late, illegal). 

2. Clark illegally drove Allen into the ground and also landed on top of him with his bodyweight "When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight."

3. #97 also dog piles onto Allen's legs 2-3 steps after Allen had released the pass. Not much force involved, but way late and unnecessary.