BFLO

Doesn't do him much good to slide when defenders hit him all the time afterwards anyway, and don't get called for a penalty.

You're making my point for me bud. The Chiefs had so little invested into the defense outside of Clark and Jones that 6 rookies played for them and put up stats in the Super Bowl. The Bills had 1 rookie on defense register stats against the Bengals. The Bills had 11 players on defense earning more than $4million in 2022-23. The Chiefs had 5. Spags is getting roughly the same results as Frazier against elite offenses. But has a lot less to work with. Spags is a 3x superbowl champ as a DC for a good reason.

Sure. But Spags is doing that with just Frank Clark, Chris Jones and a bunch of nobodies. The Chiefs are like our polar opposite in where they've invested in roster construction. 2 stud pass rushers and all the rest has gone to the offense. The Bills invested in QB and WR1 and everything else has gone to the defense. Yet our defenses perform about the same against elite offenses.

Even if the Bills defense forced a few more possessions do you honestly think our O would have done anything with them? As it stood the Bills had 8 possessions and the Bengals had 9. That's with Josh's late interception giving the bengals an extra one. 8-8 otherwise Look at our possessions: PUNT 3 PLAYS, 6 YARDS, 1:38 PUNT 3 PLAYS, 5 YARDS, 1:36 TOUCHDOWN 15 PLAYS, 75 YARDS, 7:41 PUNT 7 PLAYS, 39 YARDS, 1:09 FIELD GOAL 14 PLAYS, 65 YARDS, 7:18 PUNT 3 PLAYS, 8 YARDS, 1:15 DOWNS 10 PLAYS, 59 YARDS, 3:59 INTERCEPTION 8 PLAYS, 53 YARDS, 1:30 It doesn't matter how good your defense is if the offense does what ours did. You're not beating KC or CIN 10-9.

Posters are on a spectrum. Doomer: Wants to fire everyone, trade everyone away and start a rebuild, no matter the results. Always thinks the Bills will fail without sweeping changes. Rational Middle: somewhere on the spectrum between Doomer and Billiever depending on the actual and expected results. "Billiever": Thinks if they just have blind faith and "Billieve" hard enough that they'll be rewarded with eternal super bowls. Defends the Bills with religious zealotry and fervor. "Trust the process" is like heroin to them. Thinks that anyone who criticizes the Bills at all is a 100% full doomer. Most of the prolific posters here either are, or are close to pure "Billievers", and they're upset that the rational middle is currently swaying towards doom after 3-5 years of optimism.

It's an awful look that a $17.2 billion in revenue a year league lets obvious penalties like that slide 9 times out of 10 because of the "let 'em play" mindset, so the 1 time out of 10 they do call it, people get upset. Right now it's expected that every O-lineman holds on every single play and it's only called a penalty if the ref thinks it crossed some nebulous and inconsistent threshold. And the secondary holds/interferes with the receivers every single play, and it's only a penalty if the refs think it crossed some nebulous and inconsistent threshold. Fans get upset because the refs thresholds are never consistent game to game, or even from one play to the next.

Closer, sure. But Hyde and Miller wouldn't have helped the offense score more than 10 points.

A big reason we don’t play rookies is that Beane does not draft good players. The veteran role players outperform almost all of beanes picks.

I think we’re at the point where we need to acknowledge that McBeane are terrible at evaluating DL talent. Star Lotulelei, Vernon Butler, Mario Addison, Quinton Jefferson, Ed Oliver, Harrison Phillips, Jordan Phillips, Tim Settle, Greg Rousseau, AJ Epenesa, Boogie Basham, Shaq Lawson, and DaQuan Jones.

Does firing Fraizer actually accomplish anything? This is McDermott's defense isn't it?

Large Scale: Challenger exploding. Small Scale: Clint Malarchuck

We're winning ugly which is an important thing playoff and super bowl winning teams have to do. And it's something we couldn't do last year. But we're not really playing well at any facet right now. I'd feel a lot better if we were "rounding into playoff form" at least somewhere on the team. This is usually the time of year that the teams that are going to go deep in the playoffs start to really dominate one part of the game or another, be it the running game, defense, passing, whatever. For example, this is the time of year the Patriots running game would usually start to take off on their way to yet another super bowl. Same thing for the Giants 2 super bowl runs with Eli. This is the time of year they started getting hot. Their defense started playing lights out and Brandon Jacobs couldn't be stopped. Last year it was the Bengals defense starting to dominate. We don't appear to be on the upswing in any particular category, and are kind of struggling across the board. And we've lost 2 of our most important players on defense for the season. Tre White is shadow of himself so far, but is also our best shot at improvement heading into the playoffs. Really hope we flip the switch against the Fish.

It is more likely to happen during a catch than to a runner, I never argued otherwise. But that's not what I've been talking about. I'm saying what about the hits where the runner wasn't able to protect himself? Is a hit to the head where the guy could have protected himself but didn't, any less dangerous or damaging than a hit to the head where the guy couldn't protect himself? The answer is no, it's the same. Yes, you're right that it's less likely to happen, but it still happens all the time.

So now imagine the same hit, but on a player established as a runner. Same body parts hitting in the same spots with the same force as in the Halmin ejection. It's not even a penalty. But it's the exact same damage to the players in both cases. If it was really about safety it would be a penalty in both cases.

What does the offensive players ease of avoiding a hit like this have to do with it? I'm talking about the instances when a helmet to helmet hit has taken place. As in the times when a runner wasn't able to protect himself. It's either a helmet to helmet collision or it's not. It doesn't matter if it's during a catch or while a player is a runner. The trauma to the brain is identical.

NFL doesn't give a rats ass about player safety, this is just about optics. This same hit is perfectly legal if the player has established themselves as a runner. Are you telling me a helmet to helmet hit is dangerous when the player is catching the ball, but not while running? Come on with this nonsense.

The guy Dawkins was blocking got tripped by one of his fellow Jets line-men, causing him to lose his balance and twist over onto his back, Dion drove him into the ground and landed on top of him. If you didn't see the trip it looked like dawkins got beat, twisted the guy over and tackled him. The Refs then let blatant holds by us go uncalled on all of the remaining plays. NFL officiating.... it is a mystery.

The best part of this deal is that Moss is gone.

Broke: The Bills played poorly in the second half Woke: The Bills took the Packers to cover and only allowed them the smallest possible cover of 0.5 and they made it look easy.

Boorish behavior? Such as standing the entire game? The standing is also a byproduct of the drinking. People are doing so much drinking that there is a constant stream of people heading to the bathrooms or to get the next round of drinks. It's easier to just stand the whole time than do the sit/stand/sit every 30 seconds to make way for the next drunk trying to get past you. The seats are also cold and most people are underdressed for the elements (also a byproduct of drinking), so they never attempt to sit.

It's a tradition from the drought years that I wish we would move on from. There's no reason to stand for an entire game.

The offense just needs to stop turning the ball over. Without the turnovers I think the Bills beat Miami and Baltimore comfortably, even if the offense wouldn't have scored a ton of points in either game.

Nah. Poyer was guilty. But they let a Raven get away with the same play earlier in the game that ended a Bills drive. So it was fair not to call Poyer either. The refs were consistent about this being a non-call for both teams, at least for this game.

I'd agree that the Defense has been better than Josh so far this year. But Josh is more important for determining the outcome of games. If Josh has a good game, we'll win 99.9999999999% of the time, aside from 13 seconds. Josh can lose games for us even if the defense plays well. See Miami, Jax, Wind game, Pittsburgh etc. Most of are losses are when Josh has an off day.

I think it’s safe to say McBeane are terrible at evaluating RB talent. (And run blocking o-line)