Picking up Edmunds Option a Rare Beane Mistake

[Eastport bills]

9 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

In today's NFL LBs are similar to RBs in that they aren't as important. I mean we've played nickel 90% of the time on D. If I had to choose importance of Edmunds on the D, I think White, Hyde, Power, Milano, Hughes/Rousseau and maybe Oliver I'd rate more important/better. 

You're saying he's less important than rotational D-linemen, and a rookie and 36 year old who is gone at years end at that. Milano's great but he's effective in tandem with Tremaine similar to the Bucs LBS. 

[Augie]

57 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

I’ll take the 5th to keep from getting a warning 

 

Don’t be afraid! Do you have any tequila in the house? We want to know what you really think!      

 

I mean, we might miss you for a while, but it might be some fine entertainment!     

 

 

.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Augie

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1 minute ago, Eastport bills said:

You're saying he's less important than rotational D-linemen, and a rookie and 36 year old who is gone at years end at that. Milano's great but he's effective in tandem with Tremaine similar to the Bucs LBS. 

They play entirely different defensive schemes. That being said, you are right: generally guys play better when they play next to a guy who is good. 

[Eastport bills]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

And I'd rather have a strong secondary, QB, DL, OL and WRs all things 

By comparing his value to offensive players your killing your argument, which is mostly your personal dislike for the player.

[Green Lightning]

Klein made plays all over the field today. I like him against run heavy teams like Indy and the Pats. 

[Bob in STL]

I want Beane to find a way to sign both.  

 

 

[SydneyBillsFan]

I have been a harsh critic of his and was underwhelmed by his play in his first 3 years. Remember we traded up to pick 16 and he was nowhere near that level.

 

But I think he has definitely gone up a notch this year. If he could improve at the same rate by the end of the year then I would like to see him get a contract extension.

[LABILLBACKER]

10 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

By comparing his value to offensive players your killing your argument, which is mostly your personal dislike for the player.

When you're dealing with possible future contracts and cap money you have to look at all your players. You can't sign them all. Especially with $44M tied up on Josh.

[Eastport bills]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

When you're dealing with possible future contracts and cap money you have to look at all your players. You can't sign them all. Especially with $44M tied up on Josh.

So what's the problem with picking up the option this year, and watching his progress. The defense overcomes a host of offensive shortcomings. The way we are holding offenses down make us the formidable team we are.

[pigpen65]

Hope Klein keeps starting.  It's hugely refreshing to not have to see your MLB being pushed 15 yards down the field on every running play 

Edited November 15, 2021 by pigpen65

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

It's a good thing you don't make personnel decisions. Edmunds is a freakish athlete that makes plays sideline to sideline. Speed, length and 22 years old. He is our QB on defense and it's the top rated defense in football. Your problem with him is his long hair?

He doesn’t make that many plays though. That’s what many of us keep pointing out. Klein made as many great plays today as Edmunds has all year. He is a freakish athlete that lacks instincts. He is playing better this year than last year and the have another year to figure out if they should extend him. No way should Beane sign him long term this off season. They can still franchise him too. Plenty of time to make him truly earn a long term deal.

[34-78-83]

11 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

Hope Klein keeps starting.  It's hugely refreshing to not have to see your MLB being pushed 15 yards down the field on every running play 

Complete horse crap

[WMDman]

Klein and Edmunds are 2 completely different players, AJs strength is defending the run while Tre's is defending the pass. one is definitely flashier in the box score but Tremaine is more important to the d imo

[Rick 'r Mortis]

20 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

Hope Klein keeps starting.  It's hugely refreshing to not have to see your MLB being pushed 15 yards down the field on every running play 

And Klein wraps up when tackling. No whiffs.

[LABILLBACKER]

29 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

So what's the problem with picking up the option this year, and watching his progress. The defense overcomes a host of offensive shortcomings. The way we are holding offenses down make us the formidable team we are.

Nothing,  the organization did the right thing picking up his 5th year. See what you truly have before you put a ring on it. But to call him a freakish athlete is pretty funny. And newsflash,  he's not getting a freakish 2nd contract. 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

And I'd rather have a strong secondary, QB, DL, OL and WRs all things considered. 

I'll take both!

Edmunds is a helluva player. There's probably a solid 25 teams that would gladly pay him

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

By comparing his value to offensive players your killing your argument, which is mostly your personal dislike for the player.

No, it demonstrates that I feel MLBs aren't as valuable as other said positions. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by The Jokeman

[JerseyBills]

12 minutes ago, WMDman said:

Klein and Edmunds are 2 completely different players, AJs strength is defending the run while Tre's is defending the pass. one is definitely flashier in the box score but Tremaine is more important to the d imo

Absolutely! 

First off , what a pleasure it is to have Klein as depth. He's more nasty and ferocious than Edmunds.

But it's a passing league and like  you said,  Edmunds is way better in that aspect. 

[LABILLBACKER]

13 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Absolutely! 

First off , what a pleasure it is to have Klein as depth. He's more nasty and ferocious than Edmunds.

But it's a passing league and like  you said,  Edmunds is way better in that aspect. 

Well said and all true. Tremaine is probably the best pass coverage mlb to ever play in Buffalo. But he is different from Klein. He does more of the traditional things a mlb is known for. I'm not denying this is a very frustrating scenario for fans. But in the end it will be Sean's call as to Edmunds future?

[JerseyBills]

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Well said and all true. Tremaine is probably the best pass coverage mlb to ever play in Buffalo. But he is different from Klein. He does more of the traditional things a mlb is known for. I'm not denying this is a very frustrating scenario for fans. But in the end it will be Sean's call as to Edmunds future?

Ya absolutely.  I think him being a Captain going on 3(?) years now, we're going to extend him but I understand why fans are frustrated as well. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, pigpen65 said:

Hope Klein keeps starting.  It's hugely refreshing to not have to see your MLB being pushed 15 yards down the field on every running play 

Do you know lying about it isn’t going to make it reality that’s not happening

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Nothing,  the organization did the right thing picking up his 5th year. See what you truly have before you put a ring on it. But to call him a freakish athlete is pretty funny. And newsflash,  he's not getting a freakish 2nd contract. 

He's getting a freakish contract.  There is no doubt about that. The only question is will it be Buffalo or someone else. 

[HappyDays]

Mike White had a number of pass completions to the middle of the field today, in areas where Edmunds would usually be roaming. I will agree that Klein is a better run defender. But in pass coverage Edmunds is much better and it isn't close. McDermott doesn't ask Klein to do the same things that Edmunds does. He's a great backup though because you can get by with him.

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Tremaine is probably the best pass coverage mlb to ever play in Buffalo.

I would say that honor easily goes to London Fletcher. he isn't even the best pass coverage LB on the team now. Traditionally, MLB has been a more physical player unless you had one of the greats (and even that's kind of a late 90's to present thing. It's little surprise we've had few athletic players at the position.

Edmunds is completely expendable IMO and I'd like to see us target a replacement high in next year's draft.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I mean, the Jets got 14 points in garbage time and both of their TDs were prolonged by 4th down ticky tack penalties, and one of those TDs were against the Bills backups.

 

I am by no means saying Klein over Edmunds haha, but just mentioning that the bills really gave up 3 points outside of meaningless garbage time.

That’s why I said it was ironic

4 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

And I'd rather have a strong secondary, QB, DL, OL and WRs all things considered. 

Yet you seem to overlook the impact the guys upfront have on the secondary.  

[billsfan89]

I don't get the hate on Edumonds. I get maybe not wanting to sign him to a massive contract since that means there are less cap resources to dedicate to other positions. But I don't think he is a net negative to the defense. I think he is at worst an above average player at the position. He is really effective in coverage and decent against the run when he has decent play in front of him. I think he is a better fit for a modern NFL defense than many give him credit for. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

I don't get the hate on Edumonds. I get maybe not wanting to sign him to a massive contract since that means there are less cap resources to dedicate to other positions. But I don't think he is a net negative to the defense. I think he is at worst an above average player at the position. He is really effective in coverage and decent against the run when he has decent play in front of him. I think he is a better fit for a modern NFL defense than many give him credit for. 

He was a net negative last year. No doubt he is playing better this year. All fans want to see him succeed. I just think for the draft status and hype we expect him to be a top LB. Given his size and speed I always compared him to Brian Urlacher.  And we want him to be a dominant generational player like Bobbie Wagner or Ray Lewis.

As for modern NFL defense, I still am trying to figure that out. No doubt the 2 down run stopping LB is a thing of the past. But you still need your base nickel MLB to be stout against the run.

I think there is some truth to QBs not testing the deep middle with Edmunds on the field. That said Klein had two tipped passes defending the middle yesterday while still playing very good run defense. 

 

I hope he is healthy because they will likely play much more 4-3 against the Colts. When they do that Edmunds plays some snaps at OLB with Klein in the middle.

[Eastport bills]

11 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

No, it demonstrates that I feel MLBs aren't as valuable as other said positions. 

Just tell that to the team's that emptied the bank on Warner, David, Leonard, Wagner, White, etc.

[34-78-83]

10 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya absolutely.  I think him being a Captain going on 3(?) years now, we're going to extend him but I understand why fans are frustrated as well. 

There's no reason this year to understand the frustration... Its not that he is just way better in coverage. Tremaine is a beast vs. the run at times this season too and his gap integrity has been exceptional. People are going off what the think they know/ see and not opening their eyes or looking at resources out there (ie. literal film review) that prove how much better he's playing this year. Like all fan bases, we have a whole lotta of blow hard novice arm chair gm's. In this case these are the same kinda folks that used to call for Frank Reich to start when he came in for Kelly for a game due to injury and played well. In addition, one thing all fans should clearly know about this current regime is that they aren't going to start a guy over a guy who is better.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:31 PM, Dopey said:

Edmunds is our 2021 whipping boy.

It’s a first world problem 

[LABILLBACKER]

10 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya absolutely.  I think him being a Captain going on 3(?) years now, we're going to extend him but I understand why fans are frustrated as well. 

Fans want TE to do everything and that's not ever happening. We see Klein (at his age) flying around and we're like "why can't Tremaine do that"? Edmunds extreme skill is pass coverage and if that's all Sean wants then he'll probably get a decent contract. Not a Ray Lewis contract. But all this Edmunds report discussion, controversy etc is well justified by fans.

[Mango]

I like Edmunds, I am also frustrated by him more than I would like. I would like him to stay, but really don't think his value is what I have seen predicted. 

Klein did well today, so it is some food for thought. 

I will wait until we start Klein this year against a team that isn't the Jets. 

[Brand J]

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Well said and all true. Tremaine is probably the best pass coverage mlb to ever play in Buffalo. But he is different from Klein. He does more of the traditional things a mlb is known for. I'm not denying this is a very frustrating scenario for fans. But in the end it will be Sean's call as to Edmunds future?

I agree Edmunds is much more of a coverage linebacker than a downhill one, but it’s only because of his sheer size to dissuade pass attempts. He doesn’t deflect many passes (3 PD all last year and 2 this year so far) and QBs have a high rating when throwing his way. There were plenty of passes over the middle this last game with Klein in there, but the same was true of the Titans game when Edmunds was in there.

[34-78-83]

2 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I agree Edmunds is much more of a coverage linebacker than a downhill one, but it’s only because of his sheer size to dissuade pass attempts. He doesn’t deflect many passes (3 PD all last year and 2 this year so far) and QBs have a high rating when throwing his way. There were plenty of passes over the middle this last game with Klein in there, but the same was true of the Titans game when Edmunds was in there.

Wake up people, He's playing well against the run and pass this season. Look at the film reviews. use google and search cover 1 Bills - there is plenty there both visually and as described (often by Nick Turner). He's doing way more than you give him credit for. Sudden, aggressive, physicality. Its all there. He's done exactly what they want him to , and probably more. This is not opinion. Its only opinion when you're guessing or things are left for interpretation. Its there on video for you to see. They not only show the plays but they describe what he is doing according to the scheme. Facts are facts, they are not debatable and you don't get to decide that they are not true. Game Pass is great when the all 22 works. I have it. It Helps. But the good news is you don't even need it because of these video film reviews out there, as referenced. This is a matter of people admitting they have a predetermined narrative. Those that do will see the major difference in Tremaine this season. Those that don't will blab on.

[Brand J]

33 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Wake up people, He's playing well against the run and pass this season. Look at the film reviews. use google and search cover 1 Bills - there is plenty there both visually and as described (often by Nick Turner). He's doing way more than you give him credit for. Sudden, aggressive, physicality. Its all there. He's done exactly what they want him to , and probably more. This is not opinion. Its only opinion when you're guessing or things are left for interpretation. Its there on video for you to see. They not only show the plays but they describe what he is doing according to the scheme. Facts are facts, they are not debatable and you don't get to decide that they are not true. Game Pass is great when the all 22 works. I have it. It Helps. But the good news is you don't even need it because of these video film reviews out there, as referenced. This is a matter of people admitting they have a predetermined narrative. Those that do will see the major difference in Tremaine this season. Those that don't will blab on.

I don’t hate Edmunds and any criticism of his game shouldn’t be looked at as such. Some around here are staunch defenders of him, no matter how he produces on the field. He’s an above average linebacker, nothing more. And that’s mostly due to his measureables, not his instincts. He has 3 TFLs in 8 games this year despite playing nearly 100% of the defensive snaps. I’ll remind you he plays MLB. He has 2 passes defensed, 1 INT, 0 QB sacks and 0 QB hits for the entire time he’s been on the field (can’t count the QB hit he was called for on a personal foul even if I didn’t agree with the call). Those are facts and not debatable. We don’t like PFF around here, but the league uses their research and numbers, you even see their positional group rankings at the start of prime time games. Edmunds is currently graded as 50 on the year, which leaves a lot to be desired. Do they hate him as well? Before this season started Coach McDermott said they needed more splash plays out of him and Ed Oliver. Edmunds best year statistically was his rookie season, he hasn’t come close to those numbers since. Again, I don’t hate the player, I wish he was an All Pro for selfish reasons. But he’s not. Not even close. Despite what some around here would like to believe.

Edited November 15, 2021 by JayBaller10
Typo

[Max Fischer]

It's still amazing some fans don't see that Tremaine Edwards is an All-Pro caliber linebacker and AJ Klein is slightly above replacement.  I think great to have AJ as a backup but come on . . .

 

 

[The Jokeman]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

That’s why I said it was ironic

Yet you seem to overlook the impact the guys upfront have on the secondary.  

I mentioned DL.

[DCOrange]

10 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I would say that honor easily goes to London Fletcher. he isn't even the best pass coverage LB on the team now. Traditionally, MLB has been a more physical player unless you had one of the greats (and even that's kind of a late 90's to present thing. It's little surprise we've had few athletic players at the position.

Edmunds is completely expendable IMO and I'd like to see us target a replacement high in next year's draft.

I agree with the first sentence. I think saying Edmunds is completely expendable might be doing a disservice to him, but I do tend to think he was overrated up until this season when he's taken a pretty significant step forwards. Having said that, we probably can't afford everyone and I think we can probably get by letting him leave. I expect Beane to lock him up though.

[34-78-83]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

I don’t hate Edmunds and any criticism of his game shouldn’t be looked at as such. Some around here are staunch defenders of him, no matter how he produces on the field. He’s an above average linebacker, nothing more. And that’s mostly due to his measureables, not his instincts. He has 3 TFLs in 8 games this year despite playing nearly 100% of the defensive snaps. I’ll remind you he plays MLB. He has 2 passes defensed, 1 INT, 0 QB sacks and 0 QB hits for the entire time he’s been on the field (can’t count the QB hit he was called for on a personal foul even if I didn’t agree with the call). Those are facts and not debatable. We don’t like PFF around here, but the league uses their research and numbers, you even see their positional group rankings at the start of prime time games. Edmunds is currently graded as 50 on the year, which leaves a lot to be desired. Do they hate him as well? Before this season started Coach McDermott said they needed more splash plays out of him and Ed Oliver. Edmunds best statistically year was his rookie season, he hasn’t come close to those numbers since. Again, I don’t hate the player, I wish he was an All Pro for selfish reasons. But he’s not. Not even close. Despite what some around here would like to believe.

 

 

Theres 2 examples to start you off. Coverage gradings in a unique zone defense scheme by people not familiar with the team are close to useless, or if anything about as useful as a PFF grade on an O-Lineman (plenty of examples out there of a severely flawed grading system). And I don't care if anyone like or Hates the guy, thats completely irrelevant to me. The fact is he's playing THIS YEAR (finally!) at the level he was drafted to be at. He isn't Darius Leonard but he is damn good this year. In the end though if you're going to use gradings that don't show you the e v a l process, I'm not going to engage in such a debate. Its useless. See you can be part of the blab on crowd if you choose to, citing your gradings along the way. I just try to help point people to the real provable sources for reviewing a player's performance when they are unable to accomplish that themselves, and to put an end to false narratives.

[NewEra]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Mike White had a number of pass completions to the middle of the field today, in areas where Edmunds would usually be roaming. I will agree that Klein is a better run defender. But in pass coverage Edmunds is much better and it isn't close. McDermott doesn't ask Klein to do the same things that Edmunds does. He's a great backup though because you can get by with him.

Every qb has a number of completions to the middle of the field in areas where Edmunds is usually roaming.  That’s not a dig on Tremaine.  The scheme forces the MLB to cover a large area.  We rarely, if ever, give up a play over our safeties.  Giving up some ground in the middle of the field is the trade off imo.