Star is OUT for Steelers game

[Mr. WEO]

how will we know?

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

I’d love it if we picked up a one tech DT at 30, but they usually don’t drop.  Then again to you’re point, Milano, and Diggs we’re 5th round picks.  My point is simply it’s not Madden, and just more skill and luck when you get a star at the end of the round.  I love what I think GROOT will be, but it hasn’t happened yet.  I’m trying to temper my enthusiasm until it happens.  We may have lucked into him given he didn’t play the year before, and really only had one top college year.  That’s not normal.

 

Please don’t take I don’t want a Vea.  I’d love to, but not normal when you’re picking at the end of the draft as I believe our team is that good we will pick towards the end of the draft each year.

Jeffrey Simmons went in the 2nd. Rousseau slid down. Weirder things have happened 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Rather he be there but we've managed without him thus far

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Star has been such an albatross.  Terrible, awful signing.

 

 

Yeah it was either a terrible free agent signing or the worst free agent signing in Bills history.

 

If he ends up on IR the latter will be cemented.

 

Lotulelei wouldn't be on an NFL roster now had the Bills cut him at any time this offseason or this summer.

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Is it bad that as soon as i heard this news I went to sportrac to see long we could take a cap hit if we cut him?

[HappyDays]

So is the predominant viewpoint in this thread that Star injured his calf because he is lazy? Or because he opted out last year? Not really understanding the complaint here.

[Weatherman]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

So is the predominant viewpoint in this thread that Star injured his calf because he is lazy? Or because he opted out last year? Not really understanding the complaint here.

It’s neither IMO.  He’s a below average DT making above average salary.  He opted out last year because of COVID and now refuses to get a vaccine which some view as contradictory.  The status quo wanted Star cut 2-3 years ago because he doesn’t show up on the stat sheet if/when he plays and represents an area of weakness for the defense (defending the run).  Me personally, I was holding out judgement for this year, but him missing the opener for a calf injury might be telling, or not.  

[That's No Moon]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

So is the predominant viewpoint in this thread that Star injured his calf because he is lazy? Or because he opted out last year? Not really understanding the complaint here.

I think most people's angst is built around administration's apparent commitment to the player via his salary and their inability or refusal to acquire a sufficient replacement or backup given his apparent importance with respect to his lengthy period of absence and current unavailabilty.

 

In short, he makes a crap ton of money, there is a large difference in perceived value between the club and the fanbase, he has been unavailable for more than a year, and they haven't chosen to fill the hole that he creates either through his absence, his lack of ability, or both.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I’ve been screaming for Geno Atkins since the draft. Bills should at least bring him in for a workout

 

Right!?

How is he still on the street, thought he still played well last year?

 

 

 

[That's No Moon]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Right!?

How is he still on the street, thought he still played well last year?

 

 

 

Dunno what he's asking for. Also have to remember that as a vested veteran his whole salary is guaranteed if he's on the roster week 1.  That's a turnoff for lots of teams. Waiting a week gives them a lot more flexibility.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Dunno what he's asking for. Also have to remember that as a vested veteran his whole salary is guaranteed if he's on the roster week 1.  That's a turnoff for lots of teams. Waiting a week gives them a lot more flexibility.

 

hopefully next week then. Id hate to lose a game because of cheapness. I expect to win but nothing is guaranteed.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Right!?

How is he still on the street, thought he still played well last year?

 

 

 

He’s signing with Seattle or minny after week 1

[3rdand12]

Great opportunity to see Phillips and Zimmer to get some hard core reps against the Steelers.
 Hope to see our younger D line take advantage of the ? O line of Steelers
Go Bills 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s signing with Seattle or minny after week 1

 

Crap, why? How do you know this ?

 

 

[vincec]

I understand how everyone feels, but getting injured isn’t really his fault. I’m sure he didn’t plan it. Plus he’s just a rotational guy with a limited skill set. Some people seem to really overestimate his impact, IMO. The Bills run D was exactly all everything two years ago when he was on the team. I really don’t think his absence is the end of the world.

[Dopey]

10 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

There you are, our resident weather vane pointing in the exact wrong direction at all times.

 

Star’s opt out last year froze his salary and limited their flexibility.  He sat out and didn’t even get vaccinated!  Now he’s back but has a soft tissue boo boo and is once again clogging up space - under the salary cap, not on the field.  On a per-dollar basis no one has been worse for the Bills than Star over the past three years.  No one.

Utter nonsense.

6 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Star doesn't want to play football.  God knows how many games he will play this year before being cut next year and never playing again.  As soon as he got paid, the guy was good to never play another snap.  He got what he wanted.

Utter nonsense. Sorry Thurman for stealing your line.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

11 hours ago, jletha said:

So many of us were hoping (maybe too much) for this guys return to free up Oliver and Edmunds and others to play more to their strengths. I was always worried when "We get Star back..." was always such a key feature for how we were going to improve our run D because he hadnt played in a year.

 

And now here we are...

 

Or a key feature in Oliver's development in general. A top 10 pick should be dominant regardless of who he lines up next to. In fact, OLIVER should be the guy to free up everybody else. We'll see how he fares this Sunday.

Edited September 11, 2021 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Dopey]

10 hours ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

  I like Star. I remember him making a stop on fourth and short in the playoffs against the Texans.

  The issue I have is that after taking the year off (a year when he.could have made a difference), he gives the lie to that by not getting vaccinated. That doesn't engender sympathy from anyone. Either play or retire.

 He skips voluntary workouts, is conspicuous by his absence, barely plays in preseason. Now misses the first game.

  The Bills have a lot invested in him and his absence creates a domino effect on what other players responsibilities are on the DLine. 

  As far as what he did two years ago well that's what it is. On the one hand he doesn't get enough credit but on the other he is highly paid for his position so it's reasonable to have expectations. But he needs to show up this year.

I don't have time for giving him a free pass.

As for the expectations, he's met them. They're the coach's expectations, not yours. 

[HappyDays]

44 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

It’s neither IMO.  He’s a below average DT making above average salary.  He opted out last year because of COVID and now refuses to get a vaccine which some view as contradictory.  The status quo wanted Star cut 2-3 years ago because he doesn’t show up on the stat sheet if/when he plays and represents an area of weakness for the defense (defending the run).  Me personally, I was holding out judgement for this year, but him missing the opener for a calf injury might be telling, or not.  

 

41 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

I think most people's angst is built around administration's apparent commitment to the player via his salary and their inability or refusal to acquire a sufficient replacement or backup given his apparent importance with respect to his lengthy period of absence and current unavailabilty.

 

In short, he makes a crap ton of money, there is a large difference in perceived value between the club and the fanbase, he has been unavailable for more than a year, and they haven't chosen to fill the hole that he creates either through his absence, his lack of ability, or both.

 

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I think the predominant view point continues to be that fans severely overrate this guy. It’s pretty incredible.

 

What does any of this have to do with his calf injury? The way this thread reads you would think the calf injury is his fault or somehow Beane's fault for overpaying him. Personally I think he's a pretty good 1 tech that we overpaid to make sure the role was filled, and now he is missing a game because sometimes football players miss games. If you think Star was a bad signing, fine, but a random calf injury keeping him out for one game doesn't add any weight to that opinion.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I understand the disappointment, but the Bills won 15 games last year without Star, the DL is well versed on playing without him there,  and are facing one of the worst and least experienced OLs in the league. If this is what leads to a loss, this team has much bigger issues. 
 

based on McDermott’s comments on his injury earlier this week, I’d expect him back for week 2; he doesn’t have an injury history since he’s been here . 

Agreed

Meanwhile people are glossing over the #2 WR with a foot injury.   I remember reading countless posts this off-season on how Sanders would be an upgrade over Brown due to availability. 

[thunderingsquid]

12 hours ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

welcome to Star's replacement 

 

https://georgiadogs.com/sports/football/roster/jordan-davis/5423

He's projected to be a mid first rounder, we won't be able to take a swing unless we trade a whole bunch of draft picks.  

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Weatherman said:

It’s neither IMO.  He’s a below average DT making above average salary. 

He's the 26th paid DT for yearly salary according to Spotrac.

 

That's  close to the median in just DT numbers, but I bet the salary is below average for all, if we're figuring 64 starting DTs.

[thunderingsquid]

Speaking of this here is my 2022 mock draft.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

He's the 26th paid DT for yearly salary according to Spotrac.

 

That's  close to the median in just DT numbers, but I bet the salary is below average for all, if we're figuring 64 starting DTs.

 

He has been paid $27M for the 2 seasons he's actually played in Buffalo.

 

That's why his cap hit if cut after this season is $12M.

 

So if you are going to play that game..........he's making $12M this season because he will not be on the roster next season.......obviously.

[Process]

1 hour ago, thunderingsquid said:

Speaking of this here is my 2022 mock draft.

 

What do you have us trading to get from 32 to 29?

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Crap, why? How do you know this ?

 

 

I know that he worked out for Seattle. Seattle is becoming my bugaboo!! Last year it was Carlos Dunbar. This year it may be Atkins. Personally, I would’ve liked Atkins/Dunbar as opposed to Star/Addison for the Bills 

[BillsShredder83]

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

According to the depth chart, they've decided that Zimmer can play 1TDT.  I don't think Oliver is going to be asked to play 1TDT this season.  The guy who is going to be put out of position again (if any) is Butler

 

 

Sighhhhh Zimmers gotten be way smaller than even Harry I'd imagine. Having a hard time picturing his size here, but he's fast af so he's gotta be pretty undersized

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Lol “workhorse.”  Sure, a workhorse who never shows up to work.

 

 

Yeah, in seven years of playing and including this game tomorrow, he'll have missed five games, three in 2014, two in 2015, and the one tomorrow.

 

He's a workhorse.

 

5 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Great opportunity to see Phillips and Zimmer to get some hard core reps against the Steelers.
 Hope to see our younger D line take advantage of the ? O line of Steelers
Go Bills 

 

 

Yeah, it should be. During the offseason there was a lot of discussion that these two were playing against each other for a spot. It'll be nice to see them both play and see how they do, though the Steelers OL is not what it used to be.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I suspect they planned to cut Star last offseason (or at least force a paycut) but then he opted out and screwed that plan.

 

 

Yeah, that's the reason they drafted his replacement first in the 2020 draft three months before he opted out, and then again this year.

 

Your suspicion is very unlikely.

 

In your opinion they wanted to cut him ... and so they brilliantly instead guaranteed his salary for the next year before he opted out. Yeah, good thinking there.

 

Hell, they'd likely have drafted someone this year if they planned to dump him next year. But the odds have gone way up on cutting him "for performance reasons" next year since he hasn't been vaxxed.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

18 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

There you are, our resident weather vane pointing in the exact wrong direction at all times.

 

Star’s opt out last year froze his salary and limited their flexibility.  He sat out and didn’t even get vaccinated!  Now he’s back but has a soft tissue boo boo and is once again clogging up space - under the salary cap, not on the field.  On a per-dollar basis no one has been worse for the Bills than Star over the past three years.  No one.

 

 

Clearly by "the wrong way" you mean the opposite way from you, which will generally point me in exactly the right direction. 

 

There is a group on here always looking for scapegoats. Star, Tremaine and a few others are the ones that group has recently settled on, and clearly the anger is there for you using the word "boo boo" for an injury to a guy who has missed five games to injury in seven years of DL play. I'd love to see you call it a soft tissue boo-boo to his face.

 

Was he expensive? Yeah. Higher-level FAs get good deals. But McDermott knew exactly who Star was, and knew he needed him, and brought him along to Buffalo. And in 2018 our defense allowed 4.2 YPC, in 2019, 4.3 YPC and last year when he opted out, 4.6 YPC. McDermott was right that he needed him. The years Star was here the defense took a major step up to very very good in 2018 and was elite in 2019, and without him last year (yes, there were other reasons, but he was a big one), took a real step back. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah it was either a terrible free agent signing or the worst free agent signing in Bills history.

 

If he ends up on IR the latter will be cemented.

 

Lotulelei wouldn't be on an NFL roster now had the Bills cut him at any time this offseason or this summer.

Oh please.  That's such an overreaction.  Derrick Dockery, Langston  Walker, and Larry Tripplett say hi.  I wish Dareus was a free agent signing so I could justify taking a shot at him in this thread. 

 

We were a top 5 defense in terms of yards allowed his first two seasons here despite an underwhelming offense.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He has been paid $27M for the 2 seasons he's actually played in Buffalo.

 

That's why his cap hit if cut after this season is $12M.

 

So if you are going to play that game..........he's making $12M this season because he will not be on the roster next season.......obviously.

 

 

"Really? His cap hit if cut after this season is $12M"? That's some nice spin. 

 

You say, "he's making $12M this season," and that's nonsense. He's making $6.15M salary, $235,294 in a roster bonus and $250K in a workout bonus. That's $6,585,294, and that's what he makes this year. As for the rest of the $12M you're talking about as "this season's," it has nothing whatsoever to do with this season. It was paid in 2018, and it would hit the cap in 2022, and neither of those is this season. Not to mention that it's entirely theoretical since the Bills could easily keep him.

 

If he gets cut after the season (and it's true the likelihood of that probably went up a lot with him remaining unvaccinated), the Bills will still have to deal with dead cap from his signing bonus, but Star of course will not make a penny more.

 

As for the money they've paid him for his first two years, yeah it's a lot, and that's how it generally works in the first few years of a second contract since you're including the signing bonus. Contracts with signing bonuses have a very high per year cost the first couple of years of longer contracts. The Bills expected to keep him for a long time.

 

They might well have continued to expect that if he maintains the level of play he showed in the early part of his term here and in camp this year, but his vaccination stance might well easily change that going forward.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Oh please.  That's such an overreaction.  Derrick Dockery, Langston  Walker, and Larry Tripplett say hi.  I wish Dareus was a free agent signing so I could justify taking a shot at him in this thread. 

 

We were a top 5 defense in terms of yards allowed his first two seasons here despite an underwhelming offense.

 

 

 

Yup.

 

Remember bringing in Charles Clay when we didn't have a QB who could throw to the deep and intermediate middle of the field?

 

With Clay we had very little improvement as an offense.

 

With Star they've been an excellent defense.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Alphadawg7]

It’s amazing just how wrong and off base the majority of this thread is.  There are so many absolutely ridiculous takes in here that I don’t even know where to begin.  Funny how the players and team clearly highly value Star and his contributions to the team, but the fan base can be so off on what his value to the team is.

 

So I won’t even bother because it would take too long and I’m headed to Niagara Falls today with my Fiancé and then to Waxlight A Vin for dinner later.  So gonna save my energy for that 😎 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[machine gun kelly]

Dawg, have a great time with you’re gal.  I honestly don’t understand the skewed takes on Star.  I’m not happy he’s unvaccinated., as you’d think a guy who opted out for his health would make a better choice, and yes that’s my bias.  He’s coming back after a year off, is leaner (people speculated he would be fat), he’s a 1 tech guy so he’s a space eater that held up well in 19.
 

I don’t want to go this far, and will not personally make a comment on a specific poster, but it’s almost like some don’t understand or played organized football.  His role is to clog up lanes, allow guys like Oliver to penetrate, keep the lanes from opening by opposing RB’s.  He’ll never be the guy with a ton of sacks.  It’s really the unsung hero job.  I played LB and RB over time, and my buddy in front of me who was this DT In HS, used to tell me he hates he doesn’t have to get the glory as we played a 4-3.  I kept reassuring him and others too, it’s ok, because he makes it easier for us to make those tackles mid field, my other bud to get the interior pressure, and so on.  This is how I coached my defenses as well, as that was youth ball so limited.  I could never make the commitment to coach in HS.  It’s too much when you have a career that requires you to travel.

 

Anyway, ask Edmunds, Oliver, Harry, and Milano if they are happy he’s back.  Ask Frazier what it means to have him back.  A minor calf injury is enough to keep you off the field for a game, but it’s not like he tore his ACL.  As to cutting him last year, it was just said above, anyone feeling that way needs to look at Spotrac again or OTC.  It costs more to cut him than keep him and he can contribute on this team.

 

So I guess Harry practiced Friday, so he’ll probably get 50-55% of the snaps tomorrow.

 

Tomorrow, let’s not get wrapped in the weeds and just Go Bills!

Edited September 11, 2021 by machine gun kelly

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Dawg, have a great time with you’re gal.  I honestly don’t understand the skewed takes on Star.  I’m not happy he’s unvaccinated., as you’d think a guy who opted out fir his health would make a better choice, and yes that’s my bias.  He’s coming back after a year off, is leaner (people speculated he would be fat), he’s a 1 tech guy so he’s a space eater that held up well in 19.
 

I don’t want to go this far, and will not personally make a comment on a specific poster, but it’s almost like some don’t understand or played organized football.  His role is to clog up lanes, allow guys like Oliver to penetrate, keep the lanes from opening by opposing RB’s.  He’ll never be the guy with a ton of sacks.  It’s really the unsung hero job.  I played LB and RB over time, and my buddy in front of me who was this DT In HS, used to tell me he hates he doesn’t have to get the glory as we played a 4-3.  I kept reassuring him and others too, it’s ok, because he makes it easier for us to make those tackles mid field, my other bud to get the interior pressure, and so on.  This is how I coached my defenses as well, as that was youth ball so limited.  I could never make the commitment to coach in HS.  It’s too much when you have a career that requires you to travel.

 

Anyway, ask Edmunds, Oliver, Harry, and Milano if they are happy he’s back.  Ask Frazier what it means to have him back.  A minor calf injury is enough to keep you off the field for a game, but it’s not like he tore his ACL.  As to cutting him last year, it was just said above, anyone feeling that way needs to look at Spotrac again or OTC.  It costs more to cut him than keep him and he can contribute on this team.

 

So I guess Harry practiced Friday, so he’ll probably get 50-55% of the snaps tomorrow.

 

Tomorrow, let’s not get wrapped in the weeds and just Go Bills!

 

Thanks and great post, spot on!

 

[Trogdor]

19 hours ago, Process said:

McBeane is definitely not without flaws.

 

Relying on Star as a solution to a major hole we had at DT was a very poor decision, IMO.

 

DT and CB depth was a major issue last season, it's really hard to be understand why they did nothing to address it. 

Idk about DT, but I think they assume the improved edge rush will improve the DBs. They won't have to stick with their man for as long.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

20 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

After watching Vita Vea last night, Star is even worse of a signing...was likely never going to have very much impact on the team...

Don’t watch Vita, it will just make Star look like poo poo.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s amazing just how wrong and off base the majority of this thread is.  There are so many absolutely ridiculous takes in here that I don’t even know where to begin.  Funny how the players and team clearly highly value Star and his contributions to the team, but the fan base can be so off on what his value to the team is.

 

So I won’t even bother because it would take too long and I’m headed to Niagara Falls today with my Fiancé and then to Waxlight A Vin for dinner later.  So gonna save my energy for that 😎 

I think many of us understand the role Star is SUPPOSED to play.  
 

He rarely plays it.

 

You can’t evaluate a player in a vacuum. Because of scare resources and a salary cap, personnel decisions have opportunity costs.  Signing Star and paying him what they’ve paid him cost them other opportunities.  That’s a fact.  Viewing the investment they’ve made in him compared to what he’s actually given them, there is no way that they’re satisfied.  Some of it was beyond their control, but that’s what happens when you overpay.  
 

Separately I have my suspicions about whether the guy actually loves football, but that’s another matter.

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Really? His cap hit if cut after this season is $12M"? That's some nice spin. 

 

You say, "he's making $12M this season," and that's nonsense. He's making $6.15M salary, $235,294 in a roster bonus and $250K in a workout bonus. That's $6,585,294, and that's what he makes this year. As for the rest of the $12M you're talking about as "this season's," it has nothing whatsoever to do with this season. It was paid in 2018, and it would hit the cap in 2022, and neither of those is this season. Not to mention that it's entirely theoretical since the Bills could easily keep him.

 

If he gets cut after the season (and it's true the likelihood of that probably went up a lot with him remaining unvaccinated), the Bills will still have to deal with dead cap from his signing bonus, but Star of course will not make a penny more.

 

As for the money they've paid him for his first two years, yeah it's a lot, and that's how it generally works in the first few years of a second contract since you're including the signing bonus. Contracts with signing bonuses have a very high per year cost the first couple of years of longer contracts. The Bills expected to keep him for a long time.

 

They might well have continued to expect that if he maintains the level of play he showed in the early part of his term here and in camp this year, but his vaccination stance might well easily change that going forward.

Don’t go confusing people with facts, it will cause them to invent their own…, we have seen this odd behavior in the recent past, 😁

Edited September 11, 2021 by Don Otreply