Who is our returner?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

8 hours ago, MJS said:

How often does a 4th running back play on offense for other teams?

It was more of a deal when Moss went down last year. Or in games where things were happening and we were really thin at RB depth. The guy was on the team and dresses already and there was never even a thought of using him at RB. We put way to much value on ST in a time where the Kick return is essentially extinct. Other guys can do what he does AND play an actual position as well. That’s my point.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

It was more of a deal when Moss went down last year. Or in games where things were happening and we were really thin at RB depth. The guy was on the team and dresses already and there was never even a thought of using him at RB. We put way to much value on ST in a time where the Kick return is essentially extinct. Other guys can do what he does AND play an actual position as well. That’s my point.

And I disagree. I don't think 4th string running backs play much, if at all, for any teams. If you have enough injuries that you have to play your 4th stringer, at any position, you are pretty much screwed anyway.

 

At what point last year were the Bills needing to play Jones at RB and couldn't?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

We put way to much value on ST in a time where the Kick return is essentially extinct. Other guys can do what he does AND play an actual position as well. That’s my point.

 

Well, first off, "Gunner" is a Thing on Punt returns as well - and I hope we see the other team punting a lot, and kicking off Not So Much.

 

As far as "extinct", is the kick return extinct?  There are only 6 KR who averaged more than 25 yds per return, with Andre Roberts leading the pack at 30.

 

I'm not sure whether that tells the story though. 

I think the question is, how many of those returns were short of the endzone? 

 

The Bass-Master led the league last year with 101 KO and had 70% TB.  That says that 30% of the time, there was a kick return against the Bills.

 

The league average - I looked it up - is was 61.2% TB, meaning almost 40% of the time, there was a return.

 

I dunno about your standards for "essential extinction" or how that might differ from actual extinction, but when something happens 40% of the time, I wouldn't describe it as extinct.  Sounds to me like something a good team had better be prepared to defend against properly.

 

 

 

 

[Warcodered]

16 hours ago, Putin said:

I don’t think will be doing lot of punting this year , the plan is to avoid 3rd downs there for I don’t see any need wasting a roaster spot 

I'm not quite sure about a plan for opposing teams to not punt.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, first off, "Gunner" is a Thing on Punt returns as well - and I hope we see the other team punting a lot, and kicking off Not So Much.

 

As far as "extinct", is the kick return extinct?  There are only 6 KR who averaged more than 25 yds per return, with Andre Roberts leading the pack at 30.

 

I'm not sure whether that tells the story though. 

I think the question is, how many of those returns were short of the endzone? 

 

The Bass-Master led the league last year with 101 KO and had 70% TB.  That says that 30% of the time, there was a kick return against the Bills.

 

The league average - I looked it up - is was 61.2% TB, meaning almost 40% of the time, there was a return.

 

I dunno about your standards for "essential extinction" or how that might differ from actual extinction, but when something happens 40% of the time, I wouldn't describe it as extinct.  Sounds to me like something a good team had better be prepared to defend against properly.

 

 

 

 

There just are very few kick returns period. That’s what I mean. Just a ton of touchbacks

[sunshynman]

19 hours ago, Buffalophil1948 said:

Beasley did some returns for Dallas 

Good Idea! No one will want to tackle his unvaccinated a$$!

[LABILLBACKER]

Roscoe.....

[frostbitmic]

17 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Didn’t he return kicks in Houston?

No, his last kick returns were with us in 2018 where he had 5 for 89 yards. He does have 82 kick returns in his career though, averaging 23.1 yds.

 

I don't get the he made it because of his Special Teams prowess argument though. Last year he had all of 4 tackles.

[Greatdane21]

if you want the punt caught it’s either Beasley or Hyde!

[Patrick Duffy]

I haven't gone through the whole thread, but is McKenzie expected to be out week 1? If not, that'd be my guess

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Usually the person that lost the coin toss.  Occasionally, 'Rock-Paper-Scissors' is utilized.

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Greatdane21 said:

if you want the punt caught it’s either Beasley or Hyde!

Yeah for sure if you just want to fair catch it, Hyde's the man. 

[Chandler#81]

Our returner? Cornelius Bennett??

[Amorgus]

Can it be this guy?

[BigAl2526]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:57 PM, frostbitmic said:

Taiwan Jones ? ... Give him something to do.

I don't know.  I think he heeds to focus on his role as gunner.  We don't want to put too much on his plate.

On 9/1/2021 at 7:12 PM, msw2112 said:

I agree with the others that McKenzie will be back and be our guy.  I also agree that Hyde can step in and field punts in a pinch and there are likely other guys who have done it in HS or college (or the NFL, such as Taiwan Jones) that can step in.

And of course Stevenson will be available beginning in October.

[machine gun kelly]

Given what Hap pointed out in McKenzie fumbling problems over the years, it makes me a little nervous.

[mannc]

I have an idea

 

[freddyjj]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

I have an idea

 

Doesn't count as against 'Cuse.  Nuff said.

[Niagara Bill]

Let's resign Chris Watson, great punt catcher.

[machine gun kelly]

If they activate him for jet sweeps week to week in Breida, he would be great and experienced in KO returns.  That speed and elusiveness along with doing it in SF, could give him more touches and save us there.  As to punt returns Virg., you’re guess is as good as mine.  Stevenson should be healthy, but will they activate him, or do they activate him and due to Breida in there, do they inactivate McKenzie some weeks.

 

Interesting takes on Hyde, although with his age, I wouldn’t want him getting gassed as we need him at safety 100% of the time.  Beasely was interesting, amd this out of the box speculation, but what about Wallace?

[mannc]

2 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Doesn't count as against 'Cuse.  Nuff said.

Ok, how about this one?

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:41 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

There just are very few kick returns period. That’s what I mean. Just a ton of touchbacks

 

Again...the average touchback % in the league last year was 61.2%

 

That means 38.8% of kickoffs were returned last season

 

So between 1 in 2 and 1 in 3 kickoffs were returned

 

I don't know what "very few" is to me, but something that happens even 1 out of 3 times isn't "very rare" to me.

 

It also varied quite a bit by team, so both the quality of the kicker and the quality of the coverage must have something to do with it - Tampa Bay had 88% touchbacks on their kickoffs, the Bills were pretty good with 70%.

 

The Steelers had almost half their kickoffs returned last year.

 

 

On 9/1/2021 at 9:34 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

Didn’t he return kicks in Houston?

 

No but he did in Oakland earlier in his career, and also during his first stint with the Bills

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Ok, how about this one?

 

 

That was pretty amazing..."he's going in the wrong direction....wait a minute....now he's going in the right direction...he's got blockers..."

[GunnerBill]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:47 PM, frostbitmic said:

No, his last kick returns were with us in 2018 where he had 5 for 89 yards. He does have 82 kick returns in his career though, averaging 23.1 yds.

 

I don't get the he made it because of his Special Teams prowess argument though. Last year he had all of 4 tackles.

 

He had 6 actually. And he forced fair catches on top of that. When the coaches keep telling you someone is really good at something and people who have watched the tape say "yea he is really good at it" and the GM says he is "elite" at it then maybe just take it on trust that he is really darn good. 

[freddyjj]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

Ok, how about this one?

 

Lol.  😂. Jacksonville State might be one of only programs worst than 'Cuse.   Next 😎

[mannc]

37 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Lol.  😂. Jacksonville State might be one of only programs worst than 'Cuse.   Next 😎

Ok, here’s one against an SEC school

 

[Joe Ferguson]

Who is our returner? If the Bills front office is smart, they would bring back Pat DiMarco.

[WotAGuy]

10 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Who is our returner? If the Bills front office is smart, they would bring back Pat DiMarco.

No, he would be our long ball threat. 🤣

[YoloinOhio]

 

[NewEra]

Luv me sum lil dirty

[Fan in Chicago]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

These early results validate McBeane's decision . Esp the fumbles part of the stats

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

These early results validate McBeane's decision . Esp the fumbles part of the stats

Well, they are early, but so far so good

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

If he can keep holding onto the ball, McKenzie is an excellent return man. And he actually brings something to the offense. No brainer to keep him and use him there. Roberts wasn’t versatile enough. McKenzie Is a 4 down player. Just have to keep it up with the ball security.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

13 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If he can keep holding onto the ball, McKenzie is an excellent return man. And he actually brings something to the offense. No brainer to keep him and use him there. Roberts wasn’t versatile enough. McKenzie Is a 4 down player. Just have to keep it up with the ball security.

there was something about that Miami game that felt like a turning point to me. McKenzie looked so confident back there on judging the ball, making fair catch Versus return decisions, being sure handed, etc— plus it Was all in bad weather conditions. It just felt like he took a major step forward. 

[John from Riverside]

Dont know if anyone was watching Roberts in his last two games.....but a muffed punt in both games

 

Lil Dirty is doing just fine

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Dont know if anyone was watching Roberts in his last two games.....but a muffed punt in both games

 

Lil Dirty is doing just fine

 

Yes, been very pleased with McKenzie so far....

[Warcodered]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Well, they are early, but so far so good

My favorite thing is he seems to be making smart decisions and not being too aggressive. 

[YoloinOhio]

WFT was McKenzie doing on that disastrous KO?

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

WFT was McKenzie doing on that disastrous KO?

I think he lost the ball. and also maybe thought it was a punt lol

[Not at the table Karlos]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

WFT was McKenzie doing on that disastrous KO?

I don't remember which way the wind was blowing but the ball could have died in the wind and/or lost it in the sun.