Cole Beasley announces he will not be following Covid protocols, willing to retire

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Good thing Cole is a wide receiver and not a pediatric oncologist.

Are pediatric oncologists the only people that are in children’s hospital?

[Magox]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

There is a difference. In not wearing a seatbelt, you basically put yourself at risk but not others. 

 

A couple points, if you are worried about getting the virus, take the vaccine.  It's available to virtually everybody who is vulnerable to it here in the U.S.

 

Also, in regards to risk, we have to determine how much risk we are willing to take and how many civil liberties we are going to restrict in order to take that risk.  Because it's not a zero sum game, if it were, we would never allow kids to be exposed to other kids because they could catch the flu.  We know that the flu is more dangerous for school age children than COVID, yet we allowed kids to expose themselves with no mandated safeguards against the flu.  

 

I think what Beasley is saying is that the new protocols/dictates/guidelines by the NFL and NFLPA are too draconian and should be amended to something that is less draconian.

[Coach Tuesday]

7 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

Actually, the point of seatbelt laws and, for that matter, motorcycle helmet laws, it’s not to protect the individual but the rest of us from a financial perspective. If somebody suffers a severe injury because they were not wearing a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet their medical care has to be paid for. If they don’t have insurance, the rest of us pay for it and insurance rates go up. That is the whole point of these laws. They are not so-called “nanny state“ laws.

Yup.  And if there were a way to ensure that the hospitalization costs of folks who choose not to get vaccinated would be borne solely by them - instead of insurers or hospitals - many anti-vaxxers would get the shot.  And by the way, the vast majority of COVID hospitalizations right now are unvaccinated people… 🤔

Edited June 19, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

 

A couple points, if you are worried about getting the virus, take the vaccine.  It's available to virtually everybody who is vulnerable to it here in the U.S.

 

Also, in regards to risk, we have to determine how much risk we are willing to take and how many civil liberties we are going to restrict in order to take that risk.  Because it's not a zero sum game, if it were, we would never allow kids to be exposed to other kids because they could catch the flu.  We know that the flu is more dangerous for school age children than COVID, yet we allowed kids to expose themselves with no mandated safeguards against the flu.  

 

I think what Beasley is saying is that the new protocols/dictates/guidelines by the NFL and NFLPA are too draconian and should be amended to something that is less draconian.

Lots of vaccines have been mandated for school attendance over the years (eg, MMR), but those ones tend to focus on long-term to lifelong protection. The flu vaccine is different because it’s not entirely effective (more effective than not getting it, of course) and changes every year. To enforce a flu vaccine mandate, which won’t happen, you’d have to ride everyone every year. The flu isn’t nearly as deadly as Covid, of course.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Are pediatric oncologists the only people that are in children’s hospital?

No but we let people unvaccinated for the flu everywhere. 

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Lots of vaccines have been mandated for school attendance over the years (eg, MMR), but those ones tend to focus on long-term to lifelong protection. The flu vaccine is different because it’s not entirely effective (more effective than not getting it, of course) and changes every year. To enforce a flu vaccine mandate, which won’t happen, you’d have to ride everyone every year. The flu isn’t nearly as deadly as Covid, of course.

The flu is more deadly for children.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, SCBills said:

See this type of response is what makes me leave my logical/reasoned stance as to why I am not getting vaccinated and sends me to Cole Beasley territory.  
tHe DeLtA vArIaNt….. oh my goodness, shut up.  (Not you directly but the constant emergence of new fear tactics)

 

If your point is that the media covers a lot of things in a very sensational and unrealistic way, I completely agree with you!!!!!!!.  Oh that's not enough !. !!!!!!!!

 

There are people I've met who, in my judgement, have a logical and reasoned stance as to why they're not getting vaccinated, and you may be one of them, I give benefit of the doubt since I don't know you or your reasons.

 

The thing to ask if you've guarded against, is the "boy who cried wolf" effect where, because there is undeniably, sensational media coverage, it means there aren't in fact, emerging problems here.  I Get It, "pandemic fatigue" is a real thing.  But logical and reasonable people know sensational media coverage doesn't mean some problems aren't real, can we agree on that?  If more people are getting sick, they are sick independent of media coverage?

 

Variants aren't news. RNA viruses like Sars-Cov2 mutate at the rate of about 1 mutation every 2 weeks.  When close to half a million people a day started getting infected in India, virologists said "ruh ro" because math says 15 million people/month x 2 mutations/month is a helluva selective incubator for viral mutations.  Shortly, it turned out they predominantly were being infected with this new variant, now termed "Delta" and public health folks raised one eyebrow.

 

When it became the predominant strain in UK and cases started surging despite the country being ~60% vaxxed (many with just one shot, due to UK policy), the other eyebrow went up.  Turns out that while two shots still provide about 80-85% protection against Delta, one shot is not so good.

 

Epidemiology in Britain, where they have pretty decent contact tracing, has shown it seems to have an Ro of 4-5 in the same locales where the original strain had Ro~2.  Binding studies have shown that Delta binds more effectively to the cell receptor.  Titer studies have shown it maintains a higher titer longer in infected people.  Higher titer = more infectious.

 

If the press all disappeared tomorrow and there were no "fear tactics" or sensational media coverage, all these observations would still be here, can we agree on that?

 

It's claimed it's only 10% of infections in US at present, but frankly, our sequencing efforts are puny.  Counties here in MO that had almost no Covid infections and were colored pale yellow or green a month ago now look like this (map below), spreading out from an initial cluster of 2 counties in the North and 1 in the South.  They test wastewater streams here in MO and finding Delta.  BTW, these are the counties where 70-80% of the population has made a rational and logical decision (I kid!  I kid!  It can be true, but these people are my rellies and friends and it usually isn't.  THE FERRETS!) to not be vaccinated, despite early and high vaccine availability to them.

 

Since almost no place in MO has had mask mandates or any kind of restrictions, ever, when you see change like this charted, there is probably an explanation other than "fear mongering" and again, if the media went away and there was no sensational coverage, the hospitals would still be re-opening their covid wards and the doctors would still be reporting that the patients they hospitalize are 1) unvaccinated 2) younger.  By the way, we have a MO Covid guy on Facebook, just a private citizen, who collects publicly available Covid data independent of media or State or Federal gov't, and his data show the same thing, so it's not somehow media created.

 

 

There may be a new surge with this variant, there may not be - no need to fuss about it, since people by and large aren't changing their mind about getting vaccinated.  It will either happen, or it won't.  And yeah, places like nursing homes and rehab centers where a large # of unvaxxed staff care for 90% vaxxed patients will see unnecessary illness and death.  Shouldn't be as bad this time, but they don't have to happen if people would just wrap their mind around the notion that their choices to be vaccinated do, in fact, affect others including those who medically can't be vaccinated or those who are vaccinated but their immune systems don't work as well - and be willing to get their info from multiple different factual sources, not from "fear mongering media" and social media.

 

Ciao!

 

 

[Magox]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The flu isn’t nearly as deadly as Covid, of course.

For children it is.

Quote

“The risk of complications for healthy children is higher for flu compared to COVID-19,” according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. “However, infants and children with underlying medical conditions are at increased risk for both flu and COVID-19.”

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

No but we let people unvaccinated for the flu everywhere. 

The flu is more deadly for children.

 

Um, No.

[Pokebball]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Lots of vaccines have been mandated for school attendance over the years (eg, MMR), but those ones tend to focus on long-term to lifelong protection. The flu vaccine is different because it’s not entirely effective (more effective than not getting it, of course) and changes every year. To enforce a flu vaccine mandate, which won’t happen, you’d have to ride everyone every year. The flu isn’t nearly as deadly as Covid, of course.

I believe the flu is more dangerous (and more deadly) to young children.

[Buffarukus]

7 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

You missed the whole thing where he said he won't follow the NFL Covid protocols put in place even if he has to retire. 

 

no i didnt. thats his choice and he says he will stand by it. if the league kicks him out...good luck thanks you for your service. if not welcome back thank you for your service.

 

i think you missed my original post where either way..."cut his a$%" is pretty pathetic response from the fan base.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

For children it is.

 

Of course it is because the risk covid presents to children is negligible. That’s not my point. My point is that overall in public health terms writ large, covid is a far more deadly illness than the flu. The flu still kills very few children despite being more deadly than Covid for kids.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Magox said:

For children it is.

 

From your link:

"For childern 14 and younger, Florida’s COVID-19 mortality rate is 0.009%, far below the 0.01% for flu for that age group"

 

0.009% is within 0.001% of 0.01%.  One of those numbers is slightly below the other.  Depending upon how many cases they include, they may statistically speaking be the same number.

 

But I'm not sure what the general point is: young children are the group that is least impacted by covid-19 disease.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Pokebball said:

I believe the flu is more dangerous (and more deadly) to young children.

Again, not my point. More deadly than “not really deadly at all” doesn’t tell you much in the actuarial sense.

[Beerball]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

This is as ridiculous a statement as I have seen in this entire thread. Just flat out ridiculous, but such is the mentality these days. Again, if you believe the vax keeps you from getting or spreading Covid, and you have been vaccinated, then what does it matter if he's not? He's not here "killing" anyone. That's just dumb.  

Hyperbolics aside…You do understand that there is a segment of the population for whom the vaccine doesn’t work? Without a larger percentage of the population willing to get vaccinated that segment remains highly susceptible. Is the thought of the greater good gone? Do we worry about #1 only? Is it “fair” that this susceptible population can’t go to games? Movie theaters? Concerts? Should we consider COVID Colonies for these people?

 

You may not realize it, but you know someone in that population group.

[GreggTX]

Seriously Cole? Fine then. Go ahead and forfeit those millions and let your teamates down. This antivaccine nonsense is getting old. I got mine and I'm fine. I did not have to give up any freedom. No one can ever give me a plausible answer when I ask for their reasons for opting out, it's 'sound of crickets'. What are these folks so afraid of? I really want to know why this is happening.

Edited June 19, 2021 by GreggTX

[cwater10]

Cole is not trusting the process.  That will not end well for him in Buffalo.

[billsfan1959]

29 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Godwin’s law was a predictable outcome for this thread …

 

Well, when a poster starts calling for people to be imprisoned for a stance or view that isn't illegal, it sort of invites itself.....

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by billsfan1959

[Coach Tuesday]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If your point is that the media covers a lot of things in a very sensational and unrealistic way, I completely agree with you!!!!!!!.  Oh that's not enough !. !!!!!!!!

 

There are people I've met who, in my judgement, have a logical and reasoned stance as to why they're not getting vaccinated, and you may be one of them, I give benefit of the doubt since I don't know you or your reasons.

 

The thing to ask if you've guarded against, is the "boy who cried wolf" effect where, because there is undeniably, sensational media coverage, it means there aren't in fact, emerging problems here.  I Get It, "pandemic fatigue" is a real thing.  But logical and reasonable people know sensational media coverage doesn't mean some problems aren't real, can we agree on that?  If more people are getting sick, they are sick independent of media coverage?

 

Variants aren't news. RNA viruses like Sars-Cov2 mutate at the rate of about 1 mutation every 2 weeks.  When close to half a million people a day started getting infected in India, virologists said "ruh ro" because math says 15 million people/month x 2 mutations/month is a helluva selective incubator for viral mutations.  Shortly, it turned out they predominantly were being infected with this new variant, now termed "Delta" and public health folks raised one eyebrow.

 

When it became the predominant strain in UK and cases started surging despite the country being ~60% vaxxed (many with just one shot, due to UK policy), the other eyebrow went up.  Turns out that while two shots still provide about 80-85% protection against Delta, one shot is not so good.

 

Epidemiology in Britain, where they have pretty decent contact tracing, has shown it seems to have an Ro of 4-5 in the same locales where the original strain had Ro~2.  Binding studies have shown that Delta binds more effectively to the cell receptor.  Titer studies have shown it maintains a higher titer longer in infected people.  Higher titer = more infectious.

 

If the press all disappeared tomorrow and there were no "fear tactics" or sensational media coverage, all these observations would still be here, can we agree on that?

 

It's claimed it's only 10% of infections in US at present, but frankly, our sequencing efforts are puny.  Counties here in MO that had almost no Covid infections and were colored pale yellow or green a month ago now look like this (map below), spreading out from an initial cluster of 2 counties in the North and 1 in the South.  They test wastewater streams here in MO and finding Delta.  BTW, these are the counties where 70-80% of the population has made a rational and logical decision (I kid!  I kid!  It can be true, but these people are my rellies and friends and it usually isn't.  THE FERRETS!) to not be vaccinated, despite early and high vaccine availability to them.

 

Since almost no place in MO has had mask mandates or any kind of restrictions, ever, when you see change like this charted, there is probably an explanation other than "fear mongering" and again, if the media went away and there was no sensational coverage, the hospitals would still be re-opening their covid wards and the doctors would still be reporting that the patients they hospitalize are 1) unvaccinated 2) younger.  By the way, we have a MO Covid guy on Facebook, just a private citizen, who collects publicly available Covid data independent of media or State or Federal gov't, and his data show the same thing, so it's not somehow media created.

 

 

There may be a new surge with this variant, there may not be - no need to fuss about it, since people by and large aren't changing their mind about getting vaccinated.  It will either happen, or it won't.  And yeah, places like nursing homes and rehab centers where a large # of unvaxxed staff care for 90% vaxxed patients will see unnecessary illness and death.  Shouldn't be as bad this time, but they don't have to happen if people would just wrap their mind around the notion that their choices to be vaccinated do, in fact, affect others including those who medically can't be vaccinated or those who are vaccinated but their immune systems don't work as well - and be willing to get their info from multiple different factual sources, not from "fear mongering media" and social media.

 

Ciao!

 

 

@Hapless Bills Fan I’ve got a book recommendation for you:

 

“Bad Science: Quacks, Hacks, and Big Pharma Flacks” by Ben Goldacre.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[PastaJoe]

19 minutes ago, Magox said:

Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean by natural immunity, but previous COVID infection does offer natural immunity.  The only question is for how long?  We know it's for at least up to close to a year and possibly a lifetime.

It was in reference to some who claim there is a natural immunity even if you never had Covid. And if you had it, immunity time can decrease based on age. My mother was in the hospital with Covid last November. She was told she could expect 2-4 months of immunity. She still got vaccinated to increase it. Such a simple action to safeguard herself and others.

[Pokebball]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Again, not my point. More deadly than “not really deadly at all” doesn’t tell you much in the actuarial sense.

It actually does mean a lot in the actuarial sense.  But that's a rabbit hole we don't need to jump in.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Pokebball said:

It actually does mean a lot in the actuarial sense.  But that's a rabbit hole we don't need to jump in.

If you look at Hapless’s post above about the Florida evidence, it’s more for the flu but only in the sense of a rounding error.

[blacklabel]

I dunno, man. You don’t want the shot, don’t get it. But you don’t get to fart around and do things that can put your teammates at risk. 

[Nester]

So if he does not get vaccinated and won’t follow the protocol, that means he will be barred from playing by the NFL?

 

I respect his right to not get the jab, but tossing away your chance at a SB for not following the rules your players union agreed to seems like bad decision.

 

 

 

 

[Beach]

Just now, blacklabel said:

I dunno, man. You don’t want the shot, don’t get it. But you don’t get to fart around and do things that can put your teammates at risk. 

if your teammates are vaccinated then how are they at risk?

[Magox]

23 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Of course it is because the risk covid presents to children is negligible. That’s not my point. My point is that overall in public health terms writ large, covid is a far more deadly illness than the flu. The flu still kills very few children despite being more deadly than Covid for kids.

Right, but that’s the point.  There were many more restrictions for children than there ever was with fears from the flu.  Of course because it was a novel virus had a lot to do with it but even after it was very clear of the negligible risks to children many of the restrictions were still in place and are to this day.

 

The point which I mentioned earlier is that there should be a more appropriate cost- benefit outcome than what the NFL and NFLPA have come up with.  And I think what Cole has done is brought more attention to it.  I would venture to guess that There are many players reaching out to the union demanding change.  And rightfully so.  I’m not saying everything on that list of guidelines should be changed but definitely some of them serve negligible substantive protections.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Magox

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

“there are a lot of problems today” isn’t even close to an excuse for setting up and propping up a position that will hurt solving an extremely urgent health issue. 
 

But you’re right we should always try to the best version of ourselves - that includes actually learning about things we previously only thought we knew about.

 

Im not setting up or Propping up anything. Nothing at all.  I'm not a politician ,I didn't sign any laws

 

And I'm vaccinated

 

I was just pointing out facts that states give you options. And not every group will always be happy because it's not perfect.. those are just facts

Edited June 19, 2021 by Buffalo716

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Beach said:

if your teammates are vaccinated then how are they at risk?

I think that’s why they have an 85 percent threshold.

[YoloinOhio]

Lost in all of this is the mystery of why Cole is missing a tooth in the minicamp photos 

[starrymessenger]

The issue is of course bigger than Beas and therefore threatens to adversely impact the 2021 season IMO. Rumour has it that less than 50% of the WFT has been vaccinated. We don’t know what Josh Allen’s, and other stars’s, vaccination status is. Heaven forbid that any players should get really sick like Calais Campbell did. Even in the absence of symptoms, a period of compulsory quarantining can take a chunk out of a player’s availability. 

The protocols are really just an accommodation of the player’s right to not get vaccinated. Without them they would in all likelihood just be suspended.  Although football is a religion to many, no First Amendment freedom of religion argument and override of the conditions of employment is available here. 

So unless he changes his tune, and he won’t IMO, Beas is toast. Thats a shame. He’s one of the guys whose play I most admired.

 

[YoloinOhio]

10 minutes ago, Nester said:

So if he does not get vaccinated and won’t follow the protocol, that means he will be barred from playing by the NFL?

 

I respect his right to not get the jab, but tossing away your chance at a SB for not following the rules your players union agreed to seems like bad decision.

 

 

 

 

No, it means he’s subject to discipline if found to have violated the protocol - such as fines. That is why he said he’s willing to essentially play for free if the fines pile up 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[DaggersEOD]

The thing to remember is that despite all the loud moral condemnations of the very vocal “pro shot” crowd, they hold the minority position. 
 

We’re still hovering around the 50% mark and of the 50% that took the shot, a significant portion of them did so to avoid the artificial, government enforced consequences, not because they felt they needed/wanted it.  
 

Beas holds the majority opinion and is not alone. Being loud doesn’t mean being right.  

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, DaggersEOD said:

The thing to remember is that despite all the loud moral condemnations of the very vocal “pro shot” crowd, they hold the minority position. 
 

We’re still hovering around the 50% mark and of the 50% that took the shot, a significant portion of them did so to avoid the artificial, government enforced consequences, not because they felt they needed/wanted it.  
 

Beas holds the majority opinion and is not alone. Being loud doesn’t mean being right.  

 

600,000+dead Americans makes it right IMO.

[Pokebball]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

If you look at Hapless’s post above about the Florida evidence, it’s more for the flu but only in the sense of a rounding error.

Well, we've got 75 yrs of data on the flu and what, 18 months of data on covid?  Generally, the flu attacks everyone.  Covid attacks the old, weak and otherwise compromised.  The actuarial data on covid will be most significant in my opinion.

[Royale with Cheese]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

No but we let people unvaccinated for the flu everywhere. 

Covid is a new virus in which we haven’t developed any pre-existing immunity to it so people are much more susceptible.

Covid also has more long term effects.

Tommy Sweeney wouldn’t have missed the whole season for the flu.

 

[Magox]

10 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:

It was in reference to some who claim there is a natural immunity even if you never had Covid. And if you had it, immunity time can decrease based on age. My mother was in the hospital with Covid last November. She was told she could expect 2-4 months of immunity. She still got vaccinated to increase it. Such a simple action to safeguard herself and others.

 

Right, but we now know the immunity lasts considerably longer than that.  With that said, I am a big believer in data and the data conclusively shows that vaccines saves lives so even though someone had previously contracted COVID, if they decided to get the vaccine, I'm cool with that.  I don't believe it's necessary because of all the things that I had previously mentioned but there are some studies that show that it gives an additional boost of protection.

 

We are at the stage now that everything in my view should go back to normal with some adjustments.  The vaccine is available to virtually everyone who is vulnerable to the virus, so if anyone who catches the virus now and happens to have a bad outcome, they had the choice to take the vaccine.  In other words, the argument that "You are putting other people at risk" loses it's edge because the people who contract it, had the option to get the vaccine and they decided not to.

 

 

[Draconator]

 

[Rocky Landing]

45 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

RL, who are you kidding, you wear a seatbelt because of that annoying beeping. 😎😀

 

You see, it’s a complex issue. 

47 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

There is a difference. In not wearing a seatbelt, you basically put yourself at risk but not others. 

Absolutely correct. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

@K-9,I had Covid twice: once last March (untested but just about ALL of the symptoms right after riding on the NYC subways right up through March 13 of 2020) and again in December (positive test), when it was worse (9 straight days of a fever between 101 and 102; loss of sense of taste/smell; physically out of sorts for another month-plus afterward). I have no idea how I got it the second time given that I was very careful (possibly my college-attending son), but the more contagious variant entered NYC in November, so that might explain it. I am fine now and in good health, but my sense of smell (not taste) is screwed up and may be forever changed (we’ll see; https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/15/health/covid-smells-food.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Health). To be fair, it’s not that big of a deal, but it’s certainly real. Anyway, the idea that you become naturally immune is silly, and I’m frankly tired of the sort of BS he’s spewing. It is utter nonsense. To reiterate, though, I really do love his game. 

Glad to hear you’re ok now. Sucks that you went thru that, but we can all value the the insight you bring to the issue. 

[machine gun kelly]

42 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Get a room you two🤮 Also don't mind me in the closet...

I knew it SH.  You closet fan if these two. 🤪🧐

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, Beach said:

if your teammates are vaccinated then how are they at risk?

That applies to teammates that are vaccinated. What percentage of teammates aren’t vaccinated? Are those that aren’t at higher risk or not?