EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[Jauronimo]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

Frankly I'm a bit shocked they are quoting $1.1B for a clone of what we have now. They built Jerry-World for the same price in 2009! They built US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis in 2016 for the same price!!  Is our quote based on today's post-pandemic, material-shortage prices? Kickbacks and payoffs?

Have you seen the price of plywood these days?  2x4s are through the roof.  $1.1 billion gets you a McMansion in Clarence with today's building costs.  

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

It’s like people don’t even realize all the useless pork that our tax money goes into. At least I can see a new stadium. Let New York State taxes fund a portion of it. A lot of upstate tax money goes downstate, time for them to reciprocate. 

 

The net is actually in the other direction - upstate is largely subsidized by downstate.  In fact, a rather shocking percentage of the State budget comes directly out of what a fairly small number of Wall St types pay in income taxes

 

Having said that, i'd be all in on an independent upstate.  We'd be a little poorer but a lot freer.

 

This whole stadium thing was bungled - I assume that someone high up in PSE thought that leaking this would help their negotiation.  All it's going to do is create a lot of ill feeling.  The County/State already have a number that they're willing to get to, and this sort of public pressure isn't going to move that number much if at all

 

Last point, in case it hasn't be brought up before, Robert Kraft paid for (and/or arranged for private financing) 100% of Gillette Stadium.  This was pointed out to me by a Pats fan buddy of mine, so i looked it up, it's true.  He also paid for improvements to local roads and assorted infrastructure to support the flood of traffic caused by the stadium.   I can't believe I'm sitting here saying "I wish Kim & Terry were as generous as Robert Kraft" but here we are

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, section122 said:

Terry Pegula is worth 5.4 billion dollars.  That doesn't do it justice.  He is worth $5,400,000,000.

 

I know sports teams ask for public money but for some reason this really bothers me.  Fans stood by this team with games being pimped to Toronto, during a 17 year playoff drought, and finally have a competitive team. 

 

I know relocation is always the trump card but I thought with 2 teams in LA that would disappear.  Austin, Texas really?

 

Billionaires looking for hand outs.  The bought the Sabres for 189 million and they are now what 12 years no playoffs?  No matter that team is now worth $385 million.  They "overpaid" for the Bills at 1.4 million.  No worries though the team is now worth 2.05 billion.

 

Dig another well like you said.

 

 

The Pegulas never actually are quoted as threatening to move. Read the quote carefully. You don't have to worry about the team moving. But this type of talk is a part of stadium negotiations for whatever reason. It's going to be about a year before anything is finalized so be prepared. These talks get ugly at times. 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

The net is actually in the other direction - upstate is largely subsidized by downstate.  In fact, a rather shocking percentage of the State budget comes directly out of what a fairly small number of Wall St types pay in income taxes

 

Having said that, i'd be all in on an independent upstate.  We'd be a little poorer but a lot freer.

 

This whole stadium thing was bungled - I assume that someone high up in PSE thought that leaking this would help their negotiation.  All it's going to do is create a lot of ill feeling.  The County/State already have a number that they're willing to get to, and this sort of public pressure isn't going to move that number much if at all

 

Last point, in case it hasn't be brought up before, Robert Kraft paid for (and/or arranged for private financing) 100% of Gillette Stadium.  This was pointed out to me by a Pats fan buddy of mine, so i looked it up, it's true.  He also paid for improvements to local roads and assorted infrastructure to support the flood of traffic caused by the stadium.   I can't believe I'm sitting here saying "I wish Kim & Terry were as generous as Robert Kraft" but here we are

 

 

Could just as well have been the Government side that leaked it. "Look, they wanted 100% taxpayer funding but we FOUGHT FOR YOU!... So now you only have to pay for 75% of it."

[Bangarang]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's very difficult to own 2 major professional sports teams. They're having success with one, struggling with another. Not to mention their daughter is also a professional franchise and she's having success. 

 

 

 

 

What does their daughter have to do with anything? 
 

And yes, it probably is difficult. Maybe hiring McD made a light go off for them and that will soon translate to the Sabres. 
 

Regardless, the response from Pegula S&E was an absolute joke. Instead of coming out and saying there was no truth to the threat of moving the team, it was flat out ignored to try and maintain some form of negotiating leverage. Can’t for the Pegulas to the turn around and say how great the Buffalo fans are..

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Bangarang

[dorquemada]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

Frankly I'm a bit shocked they are quoting $1.1B for a clone of what we have now. They built Jerry-World for the same price in 2009! They built US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis in 2016 for the same price!!  Is our quote based on today's post-pandemic, material-shortage prices? Kickbacks and payoffs?

 

for real.  anything we do in NYS is double in cost of doing it anywhere else.  Lots of palms to grease along the way and just wait until you see the MWBE requirements.

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

What does their daughter have to do with anything? 
 

And yes, it probably is difficult. Maybe hiring McD made a light go off for them and that will soon translate to the Sabres. 
 

Regardless, the response from Pegula S&E was an absolute joke. Instead of coming out and saying there was no truth to the threat of moving the team, it was flat out ignored to try and maintain some form of negotiating leverage. Can’t for the Pegulas to the turn around and say how great the Buffalo fans are..

 

 

The Pegulas arent negotiating with the fans. They owe us NO comment on any of the nonsense that gets leaked through the next year+ of negotiations. It's on us to have the critical thinking skills to understand that its all just bull#### for now.

[dorquemada]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Could just as well have been the Government side that leaked it. "Look, they wanted 100% taxpayer funding but we FOUGHT FOR YOU!... So now you only have to pay for 75% of it."

 

Anything is possible, but i've been selling into State and City/County Governments for 25 years and they generally aren't that clever, though given the magnitude of this i'd assume they have their A team engaged

[Gen2]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Just another rambling from me. 

Has it occurred to anybody, that a guy who pays his taxes in FL, is asking for $1.1B from the State of NY and Erie County? I get it, he has a business here. But he is also not asking for just a little scratch here. Maybe before Terry Pegula asks for money from our income taxes he can start paying his income tax in the state as well. 

 

 

I believe you may be mistaken on two counts, Pagula doesn't pay taxes in Florida because Florida doesn't have income tax, but he DOES pay New York taxes because his business makes money in New York.

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Have you seen the price of plywood these days?  2x4s are through the roof.  $1.1 billion gets you a McMansion in Clarence with today's building costs.  

 

I know stuff is crazy now, but it should level out once production is ramped back up?

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Anything is possible, but i've been selling into State and City/County Governments for 25 years and they generally aren't that clever, though given the magnitude of this i'd assume they have their A team engaged

 

And who would be surprised if the reports were manufactured 100% just to get clicks?

Edited August 2, 2021 by Motorin'

[Zerovoltz]

I believe this is a leverage play and they chose Austin deliberatly....knew it would get alot of traction, and seems feasable to alot of people.  It's one of the few cities that would probably hapily build a stadium......just leverage....  As I said before....the NFL isn't interested in any more domestic movement....it doen'st help teh TV contract.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Pegulas will become more hated than Hitler in WNY if they do that. I am seething right now even thinking about it. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Zerovoltz said:

I believe this is a leverage play and they chose Austin deliberatly....knew it would get alot of traction, and seems feasable to alot of people.  It's one of the few cities that would probably hapily build a stadium......just leverage....  As I said before....the NFL isn't interested in any more domestic movement....it doen'st help teh TV contract.

 

Or Seth Wickersham, who has a book about the Patriots dynasty coming out soon, is hoping to generate sales from his new book?

 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Anything is possible, but i've been selling into State and City/County Governments for 25 years and they generally aren't that clever, though given the magnitude of this i'd assume they have their A team engaged

 

Fair enough, but other than getting lucky with some land deals and being able to engineer some fracking projects, it's not like the Pegulas have proved to be some universe-brained masterminds at any of this either. They showed up in 2014 and considered the most impressive person they met to be... Russ Brandon.

They are lucky they managed to get someone with Jerry Jones' experience in their corner.

 

It's possible his company leaked all this. Which makes the Austin thing even more unlikely considering no way he'd let another NFL team into his market, but would be a known, convenient "threat" to throw out there as an example.

[Returntoglory]

The NFL will NEVER let the Buffalo Bills leave WNY.

I also believe that was a precondition of the sale from the Ralph Wilson estate. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

The NFL will NEVER let the Buffalo Bills leave WNY.

I also believe that was a precondition of the sale from the Ralph Wilson estate. 

 

False and false. The NFL would love to move the Bills anywhere bigger and wealthier. And what you are referring to with Ralph was the $400MM poison pill for breaking the current lease before it expires in 2023. After that date nothing stops relocation.

 

You might be confusing an no-move agreement the Sabres have when Tom Golisano sold the team to Terry Pegula. But I can't imagine any such agreement being in effect in perpetuity.

Edited August 2, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

False and false. The NFL would love to move the Bills anywhere bigger and wealthier. And what you are referring to with Ralph was the $400MM poison pill for breaking the current lease before it expires in 2023. After that date nothing stops relocation.

I somewhat disagree with respect to sentence #2.  The NFL does not want Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer questioning the NFL’s anti-trust exemption.  So, yes, perhaps the NFL wouldn’t mind the Bills in Toronto or Mexico City or London or even Austin.  But that candle might not be worth the game given the keen interest of the Senate Majority Leader in this topic. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by SectionC3

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

False and false. The NFL would love to move the Bills anywhere bigger and wealthier. And what you are referring to with Ralph was the $400MM poison pill for breaking the current lease before it expires in 2023. After that date nothing stops relocation.

 

And so perhaps the best way to keep the Bills in Buffalo is to have the public build a new stadium and lock the Bills into a long term lease with a 1B poison pill. 

 

It's all about the details. How much per year would the Bills pay to lease the stadium vs. yearly loan payments on construction costs?

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I know stuff is crazy now, but it should level out once production is ramped back up?

Already is

[Punching Bag]

9 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 10 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:: Anyhthing short of a move to a NON US MARKET, is just he Pegulas posturing and looking for leverage to get their building done.  

 

 

I believe this is a leverage play and they chose Austin deliberatly....knew it would get alot of traction, and seems feasable to alot of people.  It's one of the few cities that would probably hapily build a stadium......just leverage....  As I said before....the NFL isn't interested in any more domestic movement....it doen'st help teh TV contract.

 

Or the inside source could be Kansas City trying to stir up trouble for opponents this year.  Keep them off balance responding to crazy attacks.

 

No way to tell although some trolls will cite the Pegulas. 

 

 

 

[letsgoteam]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If I own part of the stadium I'm moving in. 

Nice, the Hunt family has a condo/apartment/living area at Arrowhead. It's the only way to go in my opinion. 

[TheBrownBear]

31 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

Frankly I'm a bit shocked they are quoting $1.1B for a clone of what we have now. They built Jerry-World for the same price in 2009! They built US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis in 2016 for the same price!!  Is our quote based on today's post-pandemic, material-shortage prices? Kickbacks and payoffs?

 

Don't worry.  It might be the same layout, but I'm hearing we'll have gold plated piss troughs.  

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, letsgoteam said:

Nice, the Hunt family has a condo/apartment/living area at Arrowhead. It's the only way to go in my opinion. 

 

AirBnB! Another revenue stream! Imagine being able to stay AT the stadium!

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

The statement from Pegula S&E in response to all the backlash is such a joke. 
 

If it weren’t for McD, this team would probably still be mediocre. For all the good they do for Buffalo, the Pegulas aren’t very good at actually running sports franchises.

You mean if it weren’t for Allen?😉

[BuffaloRebound]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

This article by a Carucci provides great perspective. It’s really the only leverage the owners have in negotiations for public money.  Not defending Pegulas, but not ready to bring out the pitchforks yet either.  

[clayboy54]

51 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If I own part of the stadium I'm moving in. 

Baker, is that you?

[section122]

41 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The Pegulas never actually are quoted as threatening to move. Read the quote carefully. You don't have to worry about the team moving. But this type of talk is a part of stadium negotiations for whatever reason. It's going to be about a year before anything is finalized so be prepared. These talks get ugly at times. 

 

 

I know it is all negotiation but it is irritating none the less.  I know they aren't moving and I do understand the business side of this. Pegula's have put a lot of money into the complex so I do feel very confident that they will remain in OP/Buffalo.

 

I guess I'm just worn out.  Toronto was held over our head for a long time.  We had to hear how lucky we were to have a team, one that was poorly run and "cash to cap." We supported a less than good product for many years.  

 

Like I said in my last post, I don't know why this bothers me so much.  It may be timing with Covid, or maybe just irritation of footing the bill for a billionaire, or disappointment that Pegs is using the relocation threat, or it's Monday and I'm ornery lol.

[Punching Bag]

16 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

This article by a Carucci provides great perspective. It’s really the only leverage the owners have in negotiations for public money.  Not defending Pegulas, but not ready to bring out the pitchforks yet either.  

 

If only he could give some lessons on perspective to WGR radio hosts.

They got their panties in a twit(ter) after article.

 

He did neglect to mention the negotiator was owned by Jerry Jones even though he mentioned Jerry Jones.

[OrtonHearsaWho]

6 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

I know it is all negotiation but it is irritating none the less.  I know they aren't moving and I do understand the business side of this. Pegula's have put a lot of money into the complex so I do feel very confident that they will remain in OP/Buffalo.

 

I guess I'm just worn out.  Toronto was held over our head for a long time.  We had to hear how lucky we were to have a team, one that was poorly run and "cash to cap." We supported a less than good product for many years.  

 

Like I said in my last post, I don't know why this bothers me so much.  It may be timing with Covid, or maybe just irritation of footing the bill for a billionaire, or disappointment that Pegs is using the relocation threat, or it's Monday and I'm ornery lol.

 

I initially read ornery as...um...a different word and was about to say TMI 

[NobesBLO13]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

Frankly I'm a bit shocked they are quoting $1.1B for a clone of what we have now. They built Jerry-World for the same price in 2009! They built US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis in 2016 for the same price!!  Is our quote based on today's post-pandemic, material-shortage prices? Kickbacks and payoffs?

To be fair the Pegula camp is saying the $1.1 billion figure in the Sunday article is not accurate.

[Jauronimo]

14 minutes ago, NobesBLO13 said:

To be fair the Pegula camp is saying the $1.1 billion figure in the Sunday article is not accurate.

Whoa whoa whoa.  Are you suggesting that the news from unnamed sources in a crappy ESPN article might not be credible?

[Royale with Cheese]

If the Bills move, I get a sex change.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

If the Bills move, I get a sex change.

Don't pin your hopes and dreams on the whims of the Pegulas.  Be the hideous woman you've always wanted to be.

[NobesBLO13]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If the Bills move, I get a sex change.

Will you be using public funding?

[The 9 Isles]

If only people would get this worked up over multi-trillion dollar infrastructure bills that include almost no money for infrastructure.

 

At least this would bring some joy and and you would have a physical representation of the money versus what is usually buried deep in massive government spending bills. 
 

[Punching Bag]

31 minutes ago, NobesBLO13 said:

To be fair the Pegula camp is saying the $1.1 billion figure in the Sunday article is not accurate.

 

16 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Whoa whoa whoa.  Are you suggesting that the news from unnamed sources in a crappy ESPN article might not be credible?

 

It is crappy ESPN article which quoted a political reporter in Albany.  An article which has been changed multiple times with even title changed.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

43 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

I know it is all negotiation but it is irritating none the less.  I know they aren't moving and I do understand the business side of this. Pegula's have put a lot of money into the complex so I do feel very confident that they will remain in OP/Buffalo.

 

I guess I'm just worn out.  Toronto was held over our head for a long time.  We had to hear how lucky we were to have a team, one that was poorly run and "cash to cap." We supported a less than good product for many years.  

 

Like I said in my last post, I don't know why this bothers me so much.  It may be timing with Covid, or maybe just irritation of footing the bill for a billionaire, or disappointment that Pegs is using the relocation threat, or it's Monday and I'm ornery lol.

No one likes a threat. 

[Punching Bag]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If the Bills move, I get a sex change.

 

You can get neutering for free.

34 minutes ago, NobesBLO13 said:

To be fair the Pegula camp is saying the $1.1 billion figure in the Sunday article is not accurate.

 

Most in media do not even try to be fair or even accurate these days.

15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If the Bills move, I get a sex change.

 

14 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Don't pin your hopes and dreams on the whims of the Pegulas.  Be the hideous woman you've always wanted to be.

 

 

I want to see Royale's pre and post picture in "Would Ya?" post in Off the Wall post. Would get the most Hell Nos of any thread.

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

No one likes a threat. 

 

Lots like a threat - those who make them.