It looks like we came out of this weekend without a true one tech

[thurst44]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Agreed. They started the season with mainly him and Harrison rotating at the 1T, but when that wasn't working went to Jefferson and even for that strange run in the middle Ed taking more 1T work despite being the two smaller DTs (and Zimmer who is also a smaller guy) and then ended up back where they started with Harrison and Butler but with more success. I do think after losing Star having limited camp and pre-season probably meant they didn't really get chance to rep their alternatives as much as they would ordinarily in a normal year if, for instance, Star had got hurt at the start of camp. They felt like they were adjusting on the fly a lot early on. By the end of the year they had a workable formula though. 

Can't help but feel a lot of the D issues last year stemmed from a convergence of 2020 weirdness: having all these new players, a lack of Star, and less time to practice together. I'm truly excited to see what this defense does in 2021 b/c if the reversion to the mean is the top 5 defense of 2018 & 19, this is going to be one hell of a team.  

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

There are still guys in FA like McClendon who started for Pittsburgh for a few years plus there will be cuts coming, it's a great thing when you think about it that the thing we're most worried about is a 1T DT who will backup Star, we've come a long ways my friends but it looks like we've finally arrived.

[Logic]

3 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

Beane stays painfully true to his board. And he has plenty of defenders here. He could have drafted 4 punters in a row and people would be saying “the game is all about field position!”

Put another way: Brennan wishes Beane would have reached for players at positions of need instead of taking players that were higher on his board.

[Brennan Huff]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

Put another way: Brennan wishes Beane would have reached for players at positions of need instead of taking players that were higher on his board.

Let me give you a hypothetical: say every time we came up to pick next Beane had a Tackle at the top of his board. Would you be ok with drafting 7 Tackles? I’ll hang up and listen

[John from Riverside]

56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. As proven by Jordan Phillips who was a big man but much better at the 3T than the 1T. 

Well for that Matter butler is even bigger but didn’t impress as a one tech my point is they heavieryou’re you are the harder it is to move you

[BigAl2526]

Obviously, Beane is fully aware of the Bills' needs and who was available when the Bills were picking.  He must have felt that the value just wasn't there at NT when the Bills were picking.  He also knows where Harrison Phillips is.  My best guess is he believes that Harrison Phillips struggled because he was still not fully back from what was a pretty serious injury.  I think the Bills may try to move Butler from mostly 3 tech and have him compete with Harrison Phillips at 1 tech.  That will leave Ed Oliver and Justin Zimmer to rotate at 3 tech, with Rousseau and Basham getting reps on the interior in obvious passing downs.  Butler played some reps at 1 tech last season, and reportedly got better at lit late in the season.  He's certainly big enough for the job.  I'm not sure that either Phillips or Butler are guaranteed a roster spot at this point.

[Turbo44]

I think the sweet spot for one technique in this draft was rd 4 - the Sheltons of the world. Unfortunately we didn’t have a 4th rounder, courtesy of diggs. Fortunately we have Diggs.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

Beane stays painfully true to his board. And he has plenty of defenders here. He could have drafted 4 punters in a row and people would be saying “the game is all about field position!”

 

 

Yeah, hard to understand why anyone would defend a guy who has them at 13-3.

 

Wacky. They need to start understanding how terrible a GM this guy is. You keep trying to convince them.

 

 

4 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

Let me give you a hypothetical: say every time we came up to pick next Beane had a Tackle at the top of his board. Would you be ok with drafting 7 Tackles? I’ll hang up and listen

 

 

 

Listening?

 

That hypothetical is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

 

The guys he drafted show will have a real chance to make the team stronger. The way to play the draft is to value BPA slightly modified by avoiding positions with zero need whatsoever. We have needs at Edge and Tackle. The way to target specific positions is to use FA, which there is a great deal of time to do.

 

Now, if he'd picked seven tackles you'd actually have a point, but until he does, you really don't.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Thurman#1

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, wppete said:

 

 

That was then.

 

He has shaved the beard.

 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Agreed. They started the season with mainly him and Harrison rotating at the 1T, but when that wasn't working went to Jefferson and even for that strange run in the middle Ed taking more 1T work despite being the two smaller DTs (and Zimmer who is also a smaller guy) and then ended up back where they started with Harrison and Butler but with more success. I do think after losing Star having limited camp and pre-season probably meant they didn't really get chance to rep their alternatives as much as they would ordinarily in a normal year if, for instance, Star had got hurt at the start of camp. They felt like they were adjusting on the fly a lot early on. By the end of the year they had a workable formula though. 

 

 

In fairness.......the Bills "want to" for bloated blocks of ***** at the 1T position has been questionable............they cut Vincent Taylor at the end of TC and when everyone assumed they would try to find a Snacks or even Cory Liuget type.........they signed the hustling Zimmer.    They could have made a net zero cap move for Danny Shelton.......who was excellent as recently as 2019 and better than you'd expect Star to be this year, last year.........but instead he was signed by the Giants for the vet minimum.  

[Locomark]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Either a better player at the time of pick or picked before us so Beane moved onto another player......and any chances of a UDFA  looks like it didnt happen

 

So the question no is.....did Beane consider it a top priority or not.

 

Star is back.....so there is a buffer here.....but past him there does not appear to be a true one tech on this team yet.

Agreed and personally I think Harry is below average and should not be Re-signed next year unless he improves this year. So they better find someone in next year’s draft. 

[Brennan Huff]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, hard to understand why anyone would defend a guy who has them at 13-3.

 

Wacky. They need to start understanding how terrible a GM this guy is. You keep trying to convince them.

 

 

 

 

 

Listening?

 

That hypothetical is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

 

The guys he drafted show will have a real chance to make the team stronger. The way to play the draft is to value BPA slightly modified by avoiding positions with zero need whatsoever. We have needs at Edge and Tackle. The way to target specific positions is to use FA, which there is a great deal of time to do.

 

Now, if he'd picked seven tackles you'd actually have a point, but until he does, you really don't.

Ok buddy. Appreciate your input 👍

[WideNine]

14 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Good thing season doesn’t start until September or we’d be doomed!!! Omg!!!

 

It's a legit question.

 

It will be interesting to see if they go more 1-gap front when they spell Star, or if they pickup another 1T at some point and continue to play a true NT role. If they line all our big DTs in gaps that may lend itself to more "wide nine" looks, that makes for a longer path to the QB, but have seen some brutal twist stunts out of that set.

 

I would not say folks are thinking the sky is falling, but it is fine to wonder why they have left this area with Star's diminishing impact (not a bad NT, just more average now than earlier in his career) and unknown conditioning as well as his maturing contract untouched this offseason. The other area that did not get addressed is an upgrade and eventual replacement at C.

 

I think most fans really like Morse and you can count me among those, but he is always one hit away from concussion protocol and those happen more easily and more often each year. Mongo and Bates have filled in when they have had to go to the bench, but I am not sure if they are the long-term plan or represent any significant upgrade at the position both are on short-term cheap deals that the Bills could extend and lock if they felt that they had their guy.

 

The kind of blocking that Daboll seems to scheme up for many of our running plays are more power-blocking that better support Allen's play-action and less pin and pull that would lend themselves to Morse's strengths. There is also the contract that is coming into maturity where I think it would have been best to be able to groom someone if they are not going to find a veteran to bring in. 

 

There is only so much you can address in one draft, but this one seemed to be pretty deep with quality interior OL that could play both G and C, so will be interesting to see what the OBD plan is going to be after riding out Morse's contract.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by WideNine

[QLBillsFan]

This draft according to experts was light on DT’s. Essentially the worst position group. But agree we need another 1 tech to compete. I’m sure we will see a signing. 

[vincec]

I’m not too worried about it. The Bills went to the AFC championship game without a big giant space eater on the roster last season and did fine against Baltimore in the playoffs without one too.

 

To be honest I wouldn’t be shocked if Lotulelei is a surprise roster cut. They Bills have a logjam at DL, his play was mediocre two seasons ago and who knows what he’s going to look like after a season off.

[WideNine]

30 minutes ago, vincec said:

I’m not too worried about it. The Bills went to the AFC championship game without a big giant space eater on the roster last season and did fine against Baltimore in the playoffs without one too.

 

To be honest I wouldn’t be shocked if Lotulelei is a surprise roster cut. They Bills have a logjam at DL, his play was mediocre two seasons ago and who knows what he’s going to look like after a season off.

 

I hope you are right, but going to pencil you in for some razzing the first team we play that consistently blows through the middle of our line leaving Edmunds hugging air  

 

Feel free to return the favor if our concerns are over-blown.

 

You may be right on the Star cut take, we do currently have a log jam at the DL and if they are reluctant to move on from any of their project guys they could possibly go that route.

 

In fairness to Frazier we did do better against the run down the stretch, but largely because we played more guys in the box and gave up the middle to any TE or WR running a shallow crosser behind them. We did do a better job on stretch zone runs where we were giving up too many cutback opportunities.

 

Would rather see more ability from our front-4 (and Mike) to get it done both pass rush and run defense so we can dedicate our secondary towards better defending those short-intermediate passes that kept moving the chains and extending drives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by WideNine

[billsfan89]

9 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

I believe once the draft madness has settled they will be hoping some veterans at 1T and CB shake loose. Hell, they may even sign Richard Sherman at CB they seem to like guys drivin down the street with a donut tire on lol.

I have to think at the very least a vet one tech will be added by camp for competition 

[CNYfan]

7 hours ago, ~Kostabi~ said:

am I the only person who had to google what 1Tech meant? I must be old school (OLD) I always refer to that position as nose tackle..Id have known what That was. This was the google definition of 1 tech in case anyone else didnt know

 

The 1-technique is also referred to as Nose Tackle, and is very similar to 0-technique in that they both play over the center. The defining difference between the two, is the 1-technique shades over one of the shoulders of the center and usually is responsible for just one gap.

Well, the Boards' collective thinking, I believe, is that if we had real true 1 tech it would make Ed Oliver and the others better.   The reasoning behind that is the 1 tech will often take up 1 1/2 to 2 blockers as he battles at the front of the shield wall.  The attention that requires from the offense makes everyone around that 1 technique better by being free of extra attention from the enemy.  

I may be wrong, but I think that is why we are having this discussion.    I was one of the TSW posters who was very much hoping that the FO would select a 0/1 technique defensive lineman this weekend.   

[MrEpsYtown]

A veteran street free agent may be the way to go here. 
 

The guy who really sticks out to me is Abry Jones formerly of Jacksonville. Good stout player who is a leader as well. 6-4, 318. He’s been doing this a long time, but I think he can help

in a rotational role. 
 

The other guy who is interesting, at least on paper, is Daniel McCullers, former Steeler and Bear. He is 6-7, 352 and has a ton of length (37 inch arms) to go with that size. Dude is massive. 
 

Both of those guys are sitting out there in free agency and I believe they would help add some bulk to the D line for a cheap price. 

[RyanC883]

10 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

Obviously, Beane is fully aware of the Bills' needs and who was available when the Bills were picking.  He must have felt that the value just wasn't there at NT when the Bills were picking.  He also knows where Harrison Phillips is.  My best guess is he believes that Harrison Phillips struggled because he was still not fully back from what was a pretty serious injury.  I think the Bills may try to move Butler from mostly 3 tech and have him compete with Harrison Phillips at 1 tech.  That will leave Ed Oliver and Justin Zimmer to rotate at 3 tech, with Rousseau and Basham getting reps on the interior in obvious passing downs.  Butler played some reps at 1 tech last season, and reportedly got better at lit late in the season.  He's certainly big enough for the job.  I'm not sure that either Phillips or Butler are guaranteed a roster spot at this point.

 

just too much “hope” on Bean’s part here.  would be nice to have at least one guy that you hope is going to make a leap, isn’t rusty after a year, or finally figures the position out.  

[LABILLBACKER]

I have no doubt they will land a June 1st 1T that can backup Star. And Butler / Phillips can rotate too. Get used to it, we'll be drafting late for the next decade. 

[SCBills]

Do we even know if the Bills care to have another true 1 Tech on the roster behind Star?  
 

Seems to me, they might be fine with having a 1 Tech, a hybrid and a 3 Tech... which we have.  
 

This isn’t like last year where COVID opt-outs meant 1 Tech DL were next to impossible to find...  Usually you can simply sign one at any point in the season, should you need one. 

[transplantbillsfan]

We have Star. He's the starter. Butler now has experience playing it, too.

[Punching Bag]

Plenty of Defense linemen, not many line backers, sounds like 5-2-4 defense alignment.  

Bills keep enough linemen to have full rotation with OL not being able to double up on linemen as often happens. 

https://footballadvantage.com/5-2-defense/

[Trogdor]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

We have Star. He's the starter. Butler now has experience playing it, too.

Neither of them are particularly good at it. Hopefully they modify their scheme more than they did last year. 

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Neither of them are particularly good at it. Hopefully they modify their scheme more than they did last year. 

 

What??? Star is very good as a 1 tech and that became even more clear when he was missing last year.

 

You understand that 1 tech DTs are meant to take up multiple blockers and stuff holes so other guys can make tackles, right?

[TheFunPolice]

I was a little bummed about this, but Beane has always found huge guys late to fill that role. The fact that we took a handful of huge linemen made it easier to take, although I didn't love the talk of Rousseau "slimming down" 

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

What??? Star is very good as a 1 tech and that became even more clear when he was missing last year.

 

You understand that 1 tech DTs are meant to take up multiple blockers and stuff holes so other guys can make tackles, right?

Teams ran right through the middle in 2019 and 2020. He makes little to no difference. I've seen him get handled 1v1 many times. The biggest differences were the loss of contain that Shaq provided and the loss of penetration from Philips. They let the sack leaders of an already bad defensive line walk and it got worse. Not really all that shocking. 

[Punching Bag]

23 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Teams ran right through the middle in 2019 and 2020. He makes little to no difference. I've seen him get handled 1v1 many times. The biggest differences were the loss of contain that Shaq provided and the loss of penetration from Philips. They let the sack leaders of an already bad defensive line walk and it got worse. Not really all that shocking. 

 

Phillips was not playing the defense properly and yes he got sacks but due to his freelancing many more holes were made in the defense.  Biggest hole in defense was retirement of linebacker Lorenzo Alexander who was able to do so many different things for the Bills.

[frostbitmic]

Early last year I think Phillips was still recovering from the injury he had in 2019. He started looking better late last season, I'm guessing McBeane thinks he'll be fully healthy this season. Some of these big guys take a little longer to get back to 100% after an ACL tear.

[Trogdor]

22 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Phillips was not playing the defense properly and yes he got sacks but due to his freelancing many more holes were made in the defense.  Biggest hole in defense was retirement of linebacker Lorenzo Alexander who was able to do so many different things for the Bills.

Except go in coverage. I loved Lorax, but he was a slow liability out there in the end. I agree on Philips though, it's the same sort of stuff our DEs have been doing where they don't maintain and they get burned. 

[oldmanfan]

I wanted a big fat tub of goo out of the draft.  Didn't get one.  I bet they sign Short.

[LyndonvilleBill]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I wanted a big fat tub of goo out of the draft.  Didn't get one.  I bet they sign Short.

I wanted one as well and had one in all of my mocks. But after really thinking about it and reading others posts, I think they'll roll with Harry and Star as the 1DT's. Harry did get better through the year and I really doubt that Star is going to let the team down and come in out of shape. I am sure he wants a ring and probably doesn't have much time left to get one.

[maryland-bills-fan]

On 5/2/2021 at 12:01 PM, ~Kostabi~ said:

am I the only person who had to google what 1Tech meant? I must be old school (OLD) I always refer to that position as nose tackle..Id have known what That was. This was the google definition of 1 tech in case anyone else didnt know

 

The 1-technique is also referred to as Nose Tackle, and is very similar to 0-technique in that they both play over the center. The defining difference between the two, is the 1-technique shades over one of the shoulders of the center and usually is responsible for just one gap.

Nose tackle often means the center d lineman in a 3-4 defense.

Heh?  Believe it or not..... there are other defensive line schemes than that don't require a big 0/1 technique guy.  Honest !!!  

[Solomon Grundy]

32 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I wanted a big fat tub of goo out of the draft.  Didn't get one.  I bet they sign Short.

This is a great description!!

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

Teams ran right through the middle in 2019 and 2020. He makes little to no difference. I've seen him get handled 1v1 many times. The biggest differences were the loss of contain that Shaq provided and the loss of penetration from Philips. They let the sack leaders of an already bad defensive line walk and it got worse. Not really all that shocking. 

 

Buffalo was significantly better against the run in 2019 vs. the run with Star in the lineup than without him in 2020 by almost every metric.

 

Buffalo gave up more yards vs. the run in 2020 than 2019

 

Buffalo gave up more YPA vs. the run in 2020 than 2019

 

Buffalo gave up more 1st downs vs. the run in 2020 than 2019

 

Buffalo gave up more TDs vs. the run in 2020 than 2019

 

 

And I believe the disparity is even worse because I think Tremaine Edmunds got better at MLB vs. the run this year.

 

Don't take it from me, though... take it from Brandon Beane:

 

“I know he’s not a 10-sack guy and things like that, but what he provides, not only the run game, but just the ability for our linebackers to roam free, I think it took (the defensive line) a little time (to adjust).”

 

and Sean McDermott:

 

"When  it comes down to playing defensive tackle, it’s the most unselfish position on the defense," ..."“Those one techniques, sometimes don’t get a lot of recognition for the dirty work or get their name in the paper."

[Saint Doug]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:54 AM, Brandon said:

 

I'd rather the GM stick to his board than reach for need.  I've seen enough of that with guys like Maybin, John McCargo and Travares Tillman over the years.  

In his drafts, Beane has clearly displayed he drafts for need with his 1st rounders or 1st picks. 2018, QB and MLB. 2019, Ed Oliver, DT. 2020, 2nd round, Epenesa, DE. 2021, DE. I do agree that he may pick BPA in later rounds, but it’s usually need for the first pick. Of course, in the beginning, we had many needs. But, his picks of DE in the last 2 drafts are very telling. 

[maryland-bills-fan]

19 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Buffalo was significantly better against the run in 2019 vs. the run with Star in the lineup than without him in 2020 by almost every metric.

 

Buffalo gave up more yards vs. the run in 2020 than 2019

 

Buffalo gave up more YPA vs. the run in 2020 than 2019

 

Buffalo gave up more 1st downs vs. the run in 2020 than 2019

 

Buffalo gave up more TDs vs. the run in 2020 than 2019

 

 

And I believe the disparity is even worse because I think Tremaine Edmunds got better at MLB vs. the run this year.

 

Don't take it fro and

“I know he’s not a 10-sack guy and things like that, but what he provides, not only the run game, but just the ability for our linebackers to roam free, I think it took (the defensive line) a little time (to adjust).”

 

and Sean McDermott:

 

"When  it comes down to playing defensive tackle, it’s the most unselfish position on the defense," ..."“Those one techniques, sometimes don’t get a lot of recognition for the dirty work or get their name in the paper."

Hmmm.  Buffalo was one game away from the SB in 2020.  ... .... ....  By the way, if you score a lot of points quickly, then the other team gets the ball back a lot of times. It is in the rule book and shouldn't be ignored.  AND you can then play defense in a manner that requires them to run a lot of plays and use a lot of time to score... and increase their chance of a turnover or two bad plays in a set of downs, which leads to them having to punt. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by maryland-bills-fan

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Hmmm.  Buffalo was one game away from the SB in 2020.  ... .... ....  By the way, if you score a lot of points quickly, then the other team gets the ball back a lot of times. It is in the rule book and shouldn't be ignored.  AND you can then play defense in a manner that requires them to run a lot of plays and use a lot of time to score... and increase their chance of a turnover or two bad plays in a set of downs, which leads to them having to punt. 

 

Yes, we were.  And the run defense wasn't even an issue in the AFC Championship.

 

And the Bills were 13-3 and of those 3 losses, only our loss to the Chiefs was where we lost arguably because of our run Defense.  And in the year as the season ended, the Chiefs played a meaningless Week 17 game that they lost, so we wouldn't have gotten Homefield advantage even in beating the Chiefs because they likely would have started everyone Week 17 and likely would have won.

 

But what if they didn't?  What if that one win gave Buffalo Homefield Advantage throughout the playoffs?  Would our season have ended in the AFC Championship game?

 

Buffalo was great last year, but our Defense as a whole was worse than 2019, in particular our run Defense.  Personally, I would like our run D to get better while continuing to improve in other areas of the team that needs improving (pass rush) and keeping our dynamic offense in tact.

 

Voila.... Star allows us to do that in 2021.

[MrEpsYtown]

I don't like being the "sign this guy that this other team just cut" guy. But Cowboys are releasing Antwaun Woods, who would be a great fit as a NT on our defense. He's stout, but isn't just a space eating big guy. I guess they are releasing him for cap reasons. 

[Don Otreply]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:50 AM, wppete said:

This^^^

( say this with a French accent)

“We already got one

its very nice...”