Ty Dunne: Motor can lift Bills to super bowl

[BarleyNY]

57 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Sure he can get better.  BUT TELL US WHAT HE'S DOING TO GET BETTER (Dunne, not you).  That article is just a puff piece.

Yeah.  I didn’t read much of it.  The “good guy, works hard, has heart” shtick is nice and all, but really doesn’t matter much when compared to performance on the field.  And that’s what’s lacking with Singletary.  We can argue about his value on the roster as a backup (he’s easily replaceable IMO), but he’s definitely not the guy I want starting. 

[HOUSE]

Ty Dunne is not your friend

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Ty Dunne is not your friend

 

 

Ty has been pretty honest about the Bills IMO

 

[Don Otreply]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Josh is a rare athlete.  Singletary isn't.

 

If players just needed to work on their technique in the NFL, the league wouldn't endlessly be churning through day 1 picks year after year....

Believe what you like, virtually no one thought of Josh as a running QB, most saw him as a big strong armed QB with lots of flaws,( that he worked on by the way )  he was deemed an “elite” athlete after he showed he could actually run the ball, not before hand. Singletary will improve just sit back and enjoy it when we choose to run the ball.

[Don Otreply]

21 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Completely different players.

 

Josh going into the league was so raw and had a massive ceiling. .

 

Singletary is extremely limited in his game and his ceiling is way lower. It's very possible he's already at his ceiling, as RB historically speaking is the easiest transition from college to the NFL 

The key words you use are “ possibly at his ceiling “, hell, for all we know Josh is “possibly” at his ceiling, albeit a high ceiling..., there is absolutely no reason to believe Singletary can’t improve the execution of his skills, and become a better RB because of that, it’s just a silly to think it can’t happen, the guy shined in his first season, and because of O line personal changes and run game scheme changes BOTH our RBs looked mediocre all season long, the pessimism runs deep on this forum...,

[PromoTheRobot]

Josh Allen got better because he had the physical gifts to get better. I think Motor is at peak capacity.

[Don Otreply]

27 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Yeah.  I didn’t read much of it.  The “good guy, works hard, has heart” shtick is nice and all, but really doesn’t matter much when compared to performance on the field.  And that’s what’s lacking with Singletary.  We can argue about his value on the roster as a backup (he’s easily replaceable IMO), but he’s definitely not the guy I want starting. 

Frankly BOTH our RBs were decidedly mediocre but with Singletary edging out Moss in total performance, do remember that our O lines run blocking was not good all season long due to personnel issues and scheme changes, both of which Beane addressed in his season end PC, there are a lot of very short memories among posters it would appear...,

[BADOLBILZ]

 

There isn't a RB in the league or the draft that is "lifting" this team to a SB.

 

The Bills were perfectly middling running the ball last year despite poor run blocking........they need to block their run plays better and to become even more explosive in the passing game to improve on an offense that struggled in the playoffs.

 

I know fans prefer to ignore the math......they love shiny RB's.......when the Bills acquired Shady McCoy he had just lead the NFL in fewest yards per touch at 4.3 and yet there were people deducing that he was going to put up 2,000 yards from scrimmage.   SMH.   The best RB in the league is only going to give you around 6 yards per touch.   Every Josh Allen pass attempt averaged about 8 yards last year.  And there is room to grow that.   

 

Making the Bills offense more play choice balanced does not necessarily make them more dangerous...........throwing more screens to RB's into the teeth of defenses already squatting on short and intermediate routes is not a formula for stretching the field and making it easier to move the ball.    Even if you have the league's best receiving backs like Kamara, McCaffrey or Aaron Jones you are just averaging 8 yards per completion to those guys.......Isaiah McKenzie netted 9.4 catching mostly shovel passes and he couldn't find a job this offseason.    

 

Having a big time RB is not actually a "force multiplier".   

[MiltonWaddams]

1 hour ago, Brennan Huff said:

If he catches that pass we go on to win the Super Bowl for the next 3 years

As I understand it, in an alternate and greater universe, he caught that pass and it propelled the Bills to a record 5 straight Super Bowls and him to four 2000 yard seasons and a first ballot hall of fame career. But, he shouldn’t dwell on that...

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Frankly BOTH our RBs were decidedly mediocre but with Singletary edging out Moss in total performance, do remember that our O lines run blocking was not good all season long due to personnel issues and scheme changes, both of which Beane addressed in his season end PC, there are a lot of very short memories among posters it would appear...,

I agree with all of that.  The big difference between Moss and Singletary is that Moss was a rookie with very little offseason and Singletary was in his second.  Running the same offense with largely the same personnel he should’ve settled in.  So while neither were all that great, I’ll give Moss a second year before I pass judgement.  I think that we’ve seen what we’re going to get with Singletary. 

[BaaadThingsMan]

2 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

 

 

https://www.golongtd.com/p/what-fuels-motor-devin-singletary

Competition in the backfield will not hurt

[Mr. WEO]

42 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Believe what you like, virtually no one thought of Josh as a running QB, most saw him as a big strong armed QB with lots of flaws,( that he worked on by the way )  he was deemed an “elite” athlete after he showed he could actually run the ball, not before hand. Singletary will improve just sit back and enjoy it when we choose to run the ball.

 

LOL....Josh didn't become an "elite" QB by running the ball.  He started passing more accurately to better receivers--and running less. This was obvious in 2020, when he became "elite".  

 

Singletary is a mediocre RB.  He's now paired with a second one--his game didn't improve.  That's just how it is.

[DCOrange]

56 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Believe what you like, virtually no one thought of Josh as a running QB, most saw him as a big strong armed QB with lots of flaws,( that he worked on by the way )  he was deemed an “elite” athlete after he showed he could actually run the ball, not before hand. Singletary will improve just sit back and enjoy it when we choose to run the ball.

He was literally comped to Cam Newton throughout the draft process.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Motor is a hard ass worker. I believe he is doing all he can to improve.

His coach says he will be a different running back this year and I want to believe him.

 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, McBean said:

Devon seems like a good kid but he’s so “meh” it hurts. Can’t catch, not explosive, so slooooow..

 

We need Harris or ETN to go over the top on offense.

 

I always think back to how KC mauled us in Buffalo last year by just handing the ball off.

 

Defenses would have to focus on Harris or ETN which leads to Allen cooking all day. 
 

We need our Thurman Thomas folks. Get it through your heads.

 

Harris or ETN! Make it happen BBB

KC mauled is over and over in Buffalo because of their pass game. It had nothing to do with their run game.  McD was afraid they would beat us over top and made sure that didn’t happen.  You’re talking about the result of a scared defensive game plan imo.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

LOL....Josh didn't become an "elite" QB by running the ball.  He started passing more accurately to better receivers--and running less. This was obvious in 2020, when he became "elite".  

 

Singletary is a mediocre RB.  He's now paired with a second one--his game didn't improve.  That's just how it is.

It’s as if you didn’t even read what @Don Otreply wrote. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

KC mauled is over and over in Buffalo because of their pass game. It had nothing to do with their run game.  McD was afraid they would beat us over top and made sure that didn’t happen.  You’re talking about the result of a scared defensive game plan imo.

 

 

It’s as if you didn’t even read what @Don Otreply wrote. 

 

he was deemed a great athlete before he was also known as a running QB.  He was scouted as a superior athlete.

[Logic]

Leaving the draft aside for a moment, I'll just say that I think Singletary and Moss can absolutely provide what's needed in the running game. 

Go back and watch some of Singletary's highlights from his rookie season. Go back and watch Moss and Singletary in the Chargers and first Patriots games. These guys can both ball. 

I'm not saying the Bills will have a top five rushing attack, but they don't need to. They're going to win and lose on the arm of Josh Allen for the next decade+, as they should. But Moss and Singletary can give them enough to make their rushing offense more effective.

People overrate speed in running backs, in my opinion. Matt Breida has world class speed for a running back, and he's on his third team at age 26. Give me vision, contact balance, lateral agility, tackle-breaking ability over sprinter speed any day.

I believe Motor WILL have a bounce-back year, and I believe Moss will have a good sophomore campaign, and I believe that when we're all sitting here next April, running back will be the last thing we're worried about.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Logic

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I love Motor... but the need for speed is glaring. 

Didn't like the Moss pick for that same reason. 

[Eastport bills]

Motor can't be trusted to add a running threat to our incredible but one dimensional pass offense. He was bitterly disappointing on the biggest stage in this team's recent history. He was timid and lost his aggression running and on perfect screen setups. He looked overwhelmed by the magnitude of this opportunity. We can't waste our window wishing and hoping he becomes a difference maker. He is not Etienne and never will be.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, McBean said:

Devon seems like a good kid but he’s so “meh” it hurts. Can’t catch, not explosive, so slooooow..

 

We need Harris or ETN to go over the top on offense.

 

I always think back to how KC mauled us in Buffalo last year by just handing the ball off.

 

Defenses would have to focus on Harris or ETN which leads to Allen cooking all day. 
 

We need our Thurman Thomas folks. Get it through your heads.

 

Harris or ETN! Make it happen BBB

We can keep KC from mauling us by actually improving our defense

 

My wild card of improving our running game is Moss.....who was putting it together before he got hurt

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

The key words you use are “ possibly at his ceiling “, hell, for all we know Josh is “possibly” at his ceiling, albeit a high ceiling..., there is absolutely no reason to believe Singletary can’t improve the execution of his skills, and become a better RB because of that, it’s just a silly to think it can’t happen, the guy shined in his first season, and because of O line personal changes and run game scheme changes BOTH our RBs looked mediocre all season long, the pessimism runs deep on this forum...,

I am not pessimistic at all. 
 

I think the bills are a legit super bowl contender.

 

But I do think singletary is a mediocre football player who I really don't see getting that much better.

 

Just because I am not optimistic about every single player and every single thing about this team doesn't make me pessimistic lol.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, McBean said:

Devon seems like a good kid but he’s so “meh” it hurts. Can’t catch, not explosive, so slooooow..

 

We need Harris or ETN to go over the top on offense.

 

I always think back to how KC mauled us in Buffalo last year by just handing the ball off.

 

Defenses would have to focus on Harris or ETN which leads to Allen cooking all day. 
 

We need our Thurman Thomas folks. Get it through your heads.

 

Harris or ETN! Make it happen BBB

Totally agree. If you want to beat KC you need pressure on Mahomes and a substantially upgraded run game. Singletary took a step back last year from his rookie season. If Etienne can learn how to block then let's do this. Breida/Moss as backups would be perfect. 

[Rico]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

Ty Dunne is not your friend

 

Hack of all hacks.

[MJS]

How the tides turn. Last off season everyone was excited for Singletary and thought he would have a break out year.

 

Singletary and Moss were a small part of the problem. The oline and scheme were bigger factors. Fix those and both those guys will be good.

[hondo in seattle]

I hate to flaunt my ignorance but I didn't know RBs worked with RB gurus in the offseason.   I thought RBs just did gym work on strength, speedy, agility, explosiveness, etc.  Motor's guru seems to work on that - and more - in a very customized way.  I hope it all pays off.

 

As a cautionary tale, let me tell a story albeit from a different type level of football.  When I was in college, my friends and I decided to put together the most 'high level' sandlot game we could.  Most of the guys we recruited we're former high school starters.  One or two were D1 backups.  Two or three were ex high school conference all-stars.  

 

My team's offense could move the ball, even with me as QB.  But our defense couldn't stop the other team's running attack spearheaded by a kid nicknamed Little Herschel.  Little Herschel had led his high school team to a city championship and was now brutally running all over us.  He might have been the most violent football player I've ever encountered.  If you got in close to tackle him, you'd get clubbed, kneed, and otherwise abused.  If you tried to arm tackle him from a  safe distance, he'd easily run through your pathetically outstretched arms.  We did our best to gang-tackle him but he'd carry the pile for a few yards before going down.  Herschel was a beast.  

 

But what we noticed after a while is that Herschel liked to try to juke the first would-be tackler he approached.  With a level of respect that sometimes bordered on fear, the tackler would go flatfooted when Herschel danced.  And then Herschel would accelerate like an Olympic sprinter to the right or left of you and run through your outstretched arms.  

 

His juke became our aiming point.  We knew he'd be there for a second - and vulnerable.  So if you were in the vicinity and you saw him juking, you'd go full speed to that spot and ignore his fancy footwork.  As strong as Little Herschel was, we put him on his ass more than once.  His own teammates started yelling at him to stop the dancing and just run.  But he couldn't help himself.  Nearly every time he got the ball, he'd stop running forward at some point to dance.

 

And that's what I worry about with Motor.  Is his dancing so ingrained that he just won't  be able to help himself in a game?  

[billsfan89]

I think the combo at RB is fine enough for this team to win a SB. Moss is a great blocker, decent receiver and a solid power runner and Singletary is a decent all around back. Both with a good o-line can make contributions. I get feeling like you can upgrade the position but why burn a high pick moderately upgrading the RB position when you have other short and longer term needs you can fill with high draft picks? If the Bills deem the BPA at pick 30 is a RB then I am fine with it as this front office has earned the benefit of the doubt. But I personally prefer to add a Corner or Edge rusher at that pick if one is a good value there. 

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Yeah.  I didn’t read much of it.  The “good guy, works hard, has heart” shtick is nice and all, but really doesn’t matter much when compared to performance on the field.  And that’s what’s lacking with Singletary.  We can argue about his value on the roster as a backup (he’s easily replaceable IMO), but he’s definitely not the guy I want starting. 

 

I think you missed the heart of the article.  It wasn't about Motor as a good guy who works hard.  Well, it was a little.  But the beating heart of the article was about Motor doing specific drills to overcome his evident shortcomings - make him more explosive and decisive.  

 

Folks quoted in the article insist that we'll see a different Singletary this year.  

 

I'm hoping my own skepticism (mentioned above) is wrong and their optimism is right.  

Edited April 27, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[turftoe]

 

 

I would rather try to trade for Christian McCaffrey.  Maybe Carolina would like to trade up from number 39 to number 30 and we add a 5th this year and a 2nd round next year + Singletary.  Just a thought.  This way, we would still have 2- 2nd round picks and a 3rd rounder to add some talent like an edge rusher, CB, and OL.

[Shaw66]

You know, I have absolutely no idea whether we're going to see a new Motor this year, whether any of this stuff Dunne is saying will actually turn out to make a difference on the field.  

 

What I continue to be amazed about is how one Bill after another after another displays the same fierce determination to get better.  It really does seem that if you don't have that, McBeane aren't interested.   

 

If you haven't read the article, read it.  It's interesting.   It's about one motivated dude.  

[Bobby Hooks]

3 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

So all of you believe a player can’t get better at his craft? By those standards no one gets better, which we all know is patently false. You all are the shinny new toy distracted from reality, and appear to have no knowledge of what actually transpired with the O line this past season or remember what Beane said in his season end PC, but whatever..., 

What’s a shinny?

[MJS]

29 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I hate to flaunt my ignorance but I didn't know RBs worked with RB gurus in the offseason.   I thought RBs just did gym work on strength, speedy, agility, explosiveness, etc.  Motor's guru seems to work on that - and more - in a very customized way.  I hope it all pays off.

 

As a cautionary tale, let me tell a story albeit from a different type level of football.  When I was in college, my friends and I decided to put together the most 'high level' sandlot game we could.  Most of the guys we recruited we're former high school starters.  One or two were D1 backups.  Two or three were ex high school conference all-stars.  

 

My team's offense could move the ball, even with me as QB.  But our defense couldn't stop the other team's running attack spearheaded by a kid nicknamed Little Herschel.  Little Herschel had led his high school team to a city championship and was now brutally running all over us.  He might have been the most violent football player I've ever encountered.  If you got in close to tackle him, you'd get clubbed, kneed, and otherwise abused.  If you tried to arm tackle him from a  safe distance, he'd easily run through your pathetically outstretched arms.  We did our best to gang-tackle him but he'd carry the pile for a few yards before going down.  Herschel was a beast.  

 

But what we noticed after a while is that Herschel liked to try to juke the first would-be tackler he approached.  With a level of respect that sometimes bordered on fear, the tackler would go flatfooted when Herschel danced.  And then Herschel would accelerate like an Olympic sprinter to the right or left of you and run through your outstretched arms.  

 

His juke became our aiming point.  We knew he'd be there for a second - and vulnerable.  So if you were in the vicinity and you saw him juking, you'd go full speed to that spot and ignore his fancy footwork.  As strong as Little Herschel was, we put him on his ass more than once.  His own teammates started yelling at him to stop the dancing and just run.  But he couldn't help himself.  Nearly every time he got the ball, he'd stop running forward at some point to dance.

 

And that's what I worry about with Motor.  Is his dancing so ingrained that he just won't  be able to help himself in a game?  

You're acting like he is Lesean McCoy. Singletary doesn't do more dancing than is needed.

[hondo in seattle]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

You're acting like he is Lesean McCoy. Singletary doesn't do more dancing than is needed.

You're right - Motor isn’t Shady.  But do you think Singletary attacked the designed hole as aggressively as Moss?

 

I don’t.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

You're right - Motor isn’t Shady.  But do you think Singletary attacked the designed hole as aggressively as Moss?

 

I don’t.

What hole? The oline did a terrible job opening up holes for BOTH running backs. Moss is much bigger and more physical, so naturally he did better in situations where you have to put your head down and charge through bodies. Zack Moss averaged 4.3 yards per attempt (only 3 in the playoffs), and Singletary averaged 4.4 (3.9 in the playoffs). I think they were pretty much similar in their effectiveness, but for different reasons. Both are pretty good pass blockers, though.

[McBean]

56 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We can keep KC from mauling us by actually improving our defense

 

My wild card of improving our running game is Moss.....who was putting it together before he got hurt

Touché 

[SoCal Deek]

I didn't read through all of the comments, but from what I saw of Singletary last season, he simply didn't look all that interested in competing.  The NFL is a place for highly motivated athletes. Motor didn't seem motivated in the slightest to me. Who knows what else he has/had going on in his life, or whether Covid, or the lack of fans had anything to do with it. But he looked to be going through the motions more often than not. I'm 100% certain the coaching staff knows what was up.

[Arkady Renko]

4 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

I’m glad he agonizes over the drop. That’s all I’ll remember about that game and Singletary 25 years from now. It’s a scar that will never heal. 

 

I honestly completely forgot about the drop until I read the article.  The Chiefs game got out of hand so quickly and the Bills seemed so overmatched so quickly that it was hard to focus on one particular bad play.  

[hondo in seattle]

20 minutes ago, MJS said:

What hole? The oline did a terrible job opening up holes for BOTH running backs. Moss is much bigger and more physical, so naturally he did better in situations where you have to put your head down and charge through bodies. Zack Moss averaged 4.3 yards per attempt (only 3 in the playoffs), and Singletary averaged 4.4 (3.9 in the playoffs). I think they were pretty much similar in their effectiveness, but for different reasons. Both are pretty good pass blockers, though.

 

I laugh - but only because I agree.  Our OL did not create a lot of holes for either back.  

 

Singletary can be a patient runner.  I don't think that worked to his advantage last season.  He would wait for an opportunity that never presented itself.  Moss just went where the play was designed, whether there was a hole there or not.  

 

To me, these are the key sections of the article:

 

"Hicks, who has worked magic with backs like Dalvin Cook, J.K. Dobbins and Jerick McKinnon, supplied what he calls a “humbling assessment” of Singletary’s game: Too much dancing, too slow, no explosion.

 

And Singletary embraced it all.

 

Singletary — 2 ½ months later — is now a different running back."

 

And...

 

"You’d think Singletary essentially is what he is at this point physically.

 

Not so, Hicks says.

 

He’s adamant that everything is 'trainable.'

 

Start with explosion. Singletary’s greatest gift is elusiveness but, too often, he overplayed his hand. Too often, he juked himself right out of the frame. All of those dancin’ numbers — while perfect for any wedding, any Saturday night — muddy explosion.

 

'Motor’s got all the tools to just break one guy down in the open field and make him look like he’s never played football before,' Hicks says. 'But sometimes, you don’t have to do that. It’s all about explosive plays. I look at Motor’s explosive plays, man, and there’s not many. I think he has one carry over 30 yards for his career.'

 

'That speaks volumes. We’re not getting explosive plays. Why? Because we’re doing too much when all we need to do is just enough and then, also, you’re not accelerating through your cut. You need to put your foot in the ground and just go.'”

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[BarleyNY]

54 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I think you missed the heart of the article.  It wasn't about Motor as a good guy who works hard.  Well, it was a little.  But the beating heart of the article was about Motor doing specific drills to overcome his evident shortcomings - make him more explosive and decisive.  

 

Folks quoted in the article insist that we'll see a different Singletary this year.  

 

I'm hoping my own skepticism (mentioned above) is wrong and their optimism is right.  

Thanks for that info.  I hope it works for him and us. 

[hondo in seattle]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Thanks for that info.  I hope it works for him and us. 

 

I hope so, too.

 

They said you can't teach accuracy.  Look what happened with Josh.

 

And they say you can't teach explosiveness.  I guess we'll find out. 

 

But wouldn't it be fun if Motor took a leap as big as Josh's?

[MJS]

7 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I laugh - but only because I agree.  Our OL did not create a lot of holes for either back.  

 

Singletary can be a patient runner.  I don't think that worked to his advantage last season.  He would wait for an opportunity that never presented itself.  Moss just went where the play was designed, whether there was a hole there or not.  

 

To me, these are the key sections of the article:

 

"Hicks, who has worked magic with backs like Dalvin Cook, J.K. Dobbins and Jerick McKinnon, supplied what he calls a “humbling assessment” of Singletary’s game: Too much dancing, too slow, no explosion.

 

And Singletary embraced it all.

 

Singletary — 2 ½ months later — is now a different running back."

 

And...

 

"You’d think Singletary essentially is what he is at this point physically.

 

Not so, Hicks says.

 

He’s adamant that everything is 'trainable.'

 

Start with explosion. Singletary’s greatest gift is elusiveness but, too often, he overplayed his hand. Too often, he juked himself right out of the frame. All of those dancin’ numbers — while perfect for any wedding, any Saturday night — muddy explosion.

 

'Motor’s got all the tools to just break one guy down in the open field and make him look like he’s never played football before,' Hicks says. 'But sometimes, you don’t have to do that. It’s all about explosive plays. I look at Motor’s explosive plays, man, and there’s not many. I think he has one carry over 30 yards for his career.'

 

'That speaks volumes. We’re not getting explosive plays. Why? Because we’re doing too much when all we need to do is just enough and then, also, you’re not accelerating through your cut. You need to put your foot in the ground and just go.'”

 

 

I think he is exaggerating to make a point. More often than not, Singletary was hit in the backfield or faced a wall of defenders. That's on the oline. Of course, when things aren't working, running backs may start trying to do too much and start second guessing things and I think Singletary did that, but the big problem was not having any holes to hit.

 

I'd say Singletary was only 15% of the problem. The rest was on the oline blocking and the scheme, in my opinion. And, BTW, I don't think that Moss looked significantly better than Singletary. That narrative is out there, but I have to trust my own eyes. And the stats don't support a major difference between the two.