Why can't Brandon Beane get the defense right?

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Knowing him doesn't make his clown threads less insufferable. 

Lighten up Francis. Take a deep breath.

38 minutes ago, Cantankeous said:

Who is this guy? Is this a schitk I’m unfamiliar with? Like some clever posters are known for? 
if so, weak effort. If not, I recommend implementing one year, ‘prove it’ posting deals be considered.

The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

3 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 Bolded was your response to my post:

The L.A. Rams had the #1 Defense last year and they had 1 player opt out, which led the league in fewest number of opt-out players. 

The Rams didn't have to change their schedule due to the impact of COVID, whereas a number of other teams including the Bills who did...and in fact played the Titans and Chiefs who were two of the best AFC teams from the year prior and proved to be again this year in back-to-back weeks, which impacted their Defense

Regarding the Rams: of the 6 games in which the Defense allowed more than 300 yards to the opponent's Offense, 4 of them came in the first 8 games - so half of their first 8 played and another which fell just short at 295 yards. Meaning, their Defense got much better as the season went on as well, but they had all of their previous year's starters, and one Aaron Donald which played at an MVP level. Not shockingly, the first three games were among the worst 4 games in yards allowed and in the final 8 games of the regular season, 5 of their best games all came in succession to end the season. In other words, the Rams' #1 Defense got better over the course of the year, generally speaking, AND didn't have COVID opt outs or schedule changes, significant injuries to starters, had a MVP level performance from an already DPOY from Donald, and played a weaker schedule than the Bills since the Bills had THE toughest schedule in the NFL. 

 

Again, this is just for context. I'm NOT saying the Bills Defense is or was better or any of that...but to say that Beane can't draft players or bring in quality FAs that can have a measurable impact on the Defense, is a blatant disregard for logic and facts. Sometimes, we want to see the '85 Bears Defense all the time, in every game, every year and we fail to account for context. IMHO, that was what your statement of opinion failed to do...take the totality of circumstances into effect, not to mention the several years prior that showed Beane does in fact have a pretty solid track record for Drafting difference makers on both sides of the ball. McD has his in-put no doubt, but to attribute it all or nothing to either person would be faulty in my mind. 

How many defensive starters did we have opt out?

 

Did the Rams also have to deal with a shortened offseason?

 

Did we wax the Chiefs offense when we had a week to prepare in the postseason? Kind of a weak excuse tbh. 

[clearwater cadet]

who said he can't get it right?  Say it, Say it

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DhafaW1uLE-4&ved=2ahUKEwjxss_vrYPwAhVlmeAKHVjLBYAQwqsBMAB6BAgDEAk&usg=AOvVaw03Zywo0M85KI7rxJYMCQcB

[Malazan]

35 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Lighten up Francis. Take a deep breath.

The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

How many defensive starters did we have opt out?

 

Did the Rams also have to deal with a shortened offseason?

 

Did we wax the Chiefs offense when we had a week to prepare in the postseason? Kind of a weak excuse tbh. 

 

Answer the questions yourself. Stop begging us for attention.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Answer the questions yourself. Stop begging us for attention.

You know you just can’t quit me.

[Malazan]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You know you just can’t quit me.

 

You're right, the forum software sucks and ignore doesn't completely remove the person from view and the policy of this board that more traffic is better than quality makes it near impossible without just leaving the forum all together.

 

On top of that, my personal crusade against those who feel that their own intrinsic need to post bait topics to get attention urges me to respond since I can't outright ignore them. 

 

Congratulations on your success. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Cantankeous said:

Who is this guy? Is this a schitk I’m unfamiliar with? Like some clever posters are known for? 
if so, weak effort. If not, I recommend implementing one year, ‘prove it’ posting deals be considered.

He’s known for it

[TheFunPolice]

The defense has been pretty good, and guys like Epenesa and Oliver have shown some flashes that are very encouraging. 

 

BUT I think Beane should draft a 350+ pound DT this year just to show you what he's made of! 

[transient]

41 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

Yes, but the wolf thinks this take is about as well thought out as the original post.

[prissythecat]

57 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

 

 

Sure .  But didn't the guy who said that get killed by a dwarf. while sitting on the crapper in an outhouse.  

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by prissythecat

[mjt328]

19 hours ago, FireChans said:

Honestly, it's kind of shocking how much worse his defensive acquisitions have been compared to Sean. 

 

Who are our best defenders currently on the roster? 

 

Poyer

Hyde

Tre

Milano

Jerry

 

Do you notice something?  4 of those players were acquired by McD without the McBeane.  Jerry was obviously already here.

 

Compare it to the list of hacks that Beane has acquired. I'd type out all the bums and disappointments but it'd take too long.

 

All I know is if you eliminate the 2017 fellas, our defense would be the worst in the NFL.  If you eliminate Beane's JAG brigade, eh, we'd be okay.

 

Is it time for McD to make the picks again? Beane got the QB, let's thank him for his service and let's put the King of William and Mary back in the Kirk chair.

 

Since taking over as the Bills GM in 2017, Brandon Beane has spent only four draft premium picks (defined as Rounds 1-3) on the defense.  In contrast, he has spent six premium picks (including the 1st Rounder for Stefon Diggs) on the offense.  So the first answer to your question, is that Beane has thus far put a little more focus on the offensive side of the ball.  Especially at QB, WR and O-Line.  

 

To expand on this point, you forget that until the 2020 (unexpected) down season, the Bills defense was Top 5 in the NFL.  When you are already set at certain positions, you tend to focus on other places.  Until now, Beane has no reason to add immediate impact players on defense.  After adding Tremaine Edmunds to play MLB, both starting linebacker spots were good.  With Tre White, Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde already on the team, he's pretty much just brought in competition for the #2 CB spot, and left the secondary alone for 2-3 years now.  

 

That pretty much just leaves the D-Line spots outside of Jerry Hughes.  Almost ALL of the veteran player losses since Beane has taken over have been on the defensive front seven.  Kyle Williams and Lorenzo Alexander retiring.  Shaq Lawson and Jordan Phillips leaving in free agency.  Star Lotulelei opting out.  All of this has affected the overall continuity and success on the D-Line.  But again, it really didn't show until last year.  

 

As a second answer to your question, I think your view of a "successful" draft pick or free agent signing is a little bit skewed.  Not every player can be an HUGE IMPACT All-Pro star in the NFL.  Not every guy shows up as a monster on the stat sheet.  If a GM is able to grab a solid NFL starter, then I believe he's done a good job.  

• I know that Bills fans argue endlessly about Edmunds.  But the guy has been a starter in every NFL game he's every played in, has amassed over 110 tackles in each season of his career, and has been voted to the Pro-Bowl each of the last two years.  If he becomes a free agent next year, he's going to be a full-time starter on his next team too.  It's ridiculous to argue that he's a busted pick.
• In the same way, Ed Oliver has not become a huge force yet.  But he absolutely was a solid starter last year, despite playing out of position (1-Tech) and taking double-teams a good chunk of the season.  Don't be surprised if he takes a step this season. 
• Many felt Harrison Phillips was ready to step into the 1-Tech starting role ahead of Star Lotulelei, prior to tearing his ACL. This was an unfortunate injury that he may never fully recover from.  And obviously not Beane's fault. 
• The Bills drafted A.J. Epenesa with the intention of completely changing his physique, and turning him from a strictly power rusher into a more versatile player.  You can't judge him after one rookie season in the pros.

 

On the free agent side, guys like Lotulelei and Mario Addison are considered disappointments by the fanbase.  But they are solid starters.

 

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Lighten up Francis. Take a deep breath.

The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

How many defensive starters did we have opt out?

 

Did the Rams also have to deal with a shortened offseason?

 

Did we wax the Chiefs offense when we had a week to prepare in the postseason? Kind of a weak excuse tbh. 

 

And failing to see the rest of the points is kind of a weak approach to the situation.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

21 hours ago, FireChans said:

Do you notice something?  4 of those players were acquired by McD without the McBeane.  Jerry was obviously already here.

 

At the time, the process dictated a fix for the offense 

Edited April 16, 2021 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[BillsCuse]

21 hours ago, NI Bills Fan said:

Given how close Beane and McDermott work, I'm not sure any defensive players would be recruited by Beane without the seal of approval from McDermott. 

Was going to say the same exact thing.  Some of the pickups could have been more on McDermott as well.  An average year for the D and people think the sky is falling

[Brennan Huff]

At least this thread does have some entertainment value

[TBBills]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

Lighten up Francis. Take a deep breath.

The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

How many defensive starters did we have opt out?

 

Did the Rams also have to deal with a shortened offseason?

 

Did we wax the Chiefs offense when we had a week to prepare in the postseason? Kind of a weak excuse tbh. 

You lost your argument in this thread give it up.

[Rocky Landing]

23 hours ago, FireChans said:

Honestly, it's kind of shocking how much worse his defensive acquisitions have been compared to Sean. 

 

Who are our best defenders currently on the roster? 

 

Poyer

Hyde

Tre

Milano

Jerry

 

Do you notice something?  4 of those players were acquired by McD without the McBeane.  Jerry was obviously already here.

 

Compare it to the list of hacks that Beane has acquired. I'd type out all the bums and disappointments but it'd take too long.

 

All I know is if you eliminate the 2017 fellas, our defense would be the worst in the NFL.  If you eliminate Beane's JAG brigade, eh, we'd be okay.

 

Is it time for McD to make the picks again? Beane got the QB, let's thank him for his service and let's put the King of William and Mary back in the Kirk chair.

I assume you're fine with his offensive acquisitions, as well as special teams, but I'm curious how you feel about AJ Klein?

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Rocky Landing

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, Cantankeous said:

Who is this guy? Is this a schitk I’m unfamiliar with? Like some clever posters are known for? 
if so, weak effort. If not, I recommend implementing one year, ‘prove it’ posting deals be considered.

This here is and example of an opportunity for good practical humor, when someone does something like this, you fill their car to the top of the seats with bird seed..., it’s inexpensive and relatively harmless yet quite funny,

 

but that could just be me..,, 😂

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

23 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

i assume you got the numbers to back that up? We’ll wait.

Just checking in, assuming the facts are still on hold 😂 

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Extremely relevant in a topic about the defense.

 

EYEROLL

So did the #1 defense last year have to deal with personnel changes, opt outs or a shortened offseason? 

Name which defenders are currently on our roster and better than the ones I listed?

Intentionally or not, you typed out the list of hacks and bums and I salute you. Point well made.

Chan’s the offense is relevant to the defense.  C’mon bud.  Having a #2 offense means you can get to a championship game with a 14th defense.  Just like in 2019 we had the 24th offense and the 3rd best defense.  It’s a balancing act.  Maybe you’re frustrated as some were hard on you, but they are linked.

 

If anything look at the SB Champs, the Bucs.  They were 6th and 7th 8n the offense and defense, but in 2019 they were 3rd in offense even though Winston threw 30 picks, but were 15th in defense.  My point is you’re right we need to be balanced, but it’s odd to see a team top 5 on both sides of the ball.  Usually something gives.  If we simply can get to 8-10th in defense and stay top 5 in offense, we should be great.  It’s not a miracle needed on defense, just a small improvement will go a long way.

[Mr. WEO]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:58 PM, Nick the Greek said:

The D has been carrying the team for the past few years, prior only to last year. I was sad to see the D regress a little last year but they can’t be a top 5 unit every year. 

 

Truer words could not be posted.....

 

The D has been "top 5" 3 times in the last 15 seasons.  Only 1 time in 6 years if you go by points allowed.

 

The O has outranked the D 3 of the past 6 years.

6 hours ago, Cantankeous said:

Who is this guy? Is this a schitk I’m unfamiliar with? Like some clever posters are known for? 
if so, weak effort. If not, I recommend implementing one year, ‘prove it’ posting deals be considered.

 

Bold words for a guy with a handful of posts...

[without a drought]

Is it time for a billboard yet, or should we just start with an online petition?

 

 

[NoSaint]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:53 PM, FireChans said:

Honestly, it's kind of shocking how much worse his defensive acquisitions have been compared to Sean. 

 

Who are our best defenders currently on the roster? 

 

Poyer

Hyde

Tre

Milano

Jerry

 

Do you notice something?  4 of those players were acquired by McD without the McBeane.  Jerry was obviously already here.

 

Compare it to the list of hacks that Beane has acquired. I'd type out all the bums and disappointments but it'd take too long.

 

All I know is if you eliminate the 2017 fellas, our defense would be the worst in the NFL.  If you eliminate Beane's JAG brigade, eh, we'd be okay.

 

Is it time for McD to make the picks again? Beane got the QB, let's thank him for his service and let's put the King of William and Mary back in the Kirk chair.

If not for the 34 to 43 to 34 Whaley did pretty well stocking a defense. 
 

getting the qb right is much more important though 

[FireChans]

34 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

If not for the 34 to 43 to 34 Whaley did pretty well stocking a defense. 
 

getting the qb right is much more important though 

You mean Nix.

[NoSaint]

34 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You mean Nix.

 
sure?
 

Whaley was too.

 

on your list nix was only in buffalo for acquiring Hughes though.

[Augie]

5 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Just checking in, assuming the facts are still on hold 😂 

 

I’m starting to think Beane is just messing with @FireChans and @ScottLaw, so he gets bonus points for that! 

[Milanos Milano]

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:02 AM, Arm of Harm said:

 

Yeah. I'm just not seeing it. That "top unit" played poorly against the Colts in the playoffs, and got absolutely torched by KC. KC played three postseason games. Their game against the Bills was by far their offense's best of the three.

 

During the regular season, the defense didn't have very many good games against good quarterbacks, except for their performance against Justin Herbert. The defense definitely needs improvement, whether that's a change in the way it's coached, or additional players, or Star coming back, or Harrison Phillips getting healthy, or improvement from guys like Oliver, Edmunds, or Epenesa.

 

Against the Colts, our D gave up a lot of yards, but had some pretty epic moments.  I don't see how you can look at that goal line stand midway through the second and say "played poorly".  1st and 4 from the Buffalo 4 and TOD?  C'mon, Man.  They were leading 10-7 at the time and had a chance to put a 17-7 lead on us.

 

KC game, McDermott's comment was he got outcoached.  No argument there was a poor game on D.

[Patrick Duffy]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Against the Colts, our D gave up a lot of yards, but had some pretty epic moments.  I don't see how you can look at that goal line stand midway through the second and say "played poorly".  1st and 4 from the Buffalo 4 and TOD?  C'mon, Man.  They were leading 10-7 at the time and had a chance to put a 17-7 lead on us.

 

KC game, McDermott's comment was he got outcoached.  No argument there was a poor game on D.

Goal line stand was great, but those 2 or 3 scores Colts got in like 2 mins each time was a big issue. 

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

The goal line stand was helped out immensely by Philip Rivers, who missed a wide open receiver in the back of the end zone as he back peddle backwards into pressure for no apparent reason and overthrew him off his back foot. 

Yeah was a game where Bills D game them many chances to win and while Rivers made some plays he also helped Bills D at times with those mistakes

[Boxcar]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:06 PM, mushypeaches said:

This is a ridiculous assertion.  We've had a top defense until last year when some injuries and opt-outs hurt a lot more than any draft or FA misses did.

 

And frankly, I'm much happier that they have a top offense and a middling defense vs having a top defense and a middling offense

 

It's a much stronger and sustainable brand of football.  

 

Would you prefer that we bring another GM in to make these decisions???  Again - ridiculous

The defense last year wasn't even bad so idk why people complain about it so much. I guess I understand we're used to being some alternate version of the Bears, but it's not like the defense was below average.

[97bills]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:03 PM, NI Bills Fan said:

Given how close Beane and McDermott work, I'm not sure any defensive players would be recruited by Beane without the seal of approval from McDermott. 

This is so true everything they do is hand & hand. They work as a unit if one fails they both do that’s what I love about them. And think other teams want what we have how many times do we hear a GM and coach not getting along. Or if there doing all the cooking they want to have a say in the groceries. 

[BobbyC81]

On 4/15/2021 at 3:08 PM, glazeduck said:

While I candidly have not seen the data on this, so don't know if it's effecting things or not, it should also be mentioned along with the defense's "regression", that that tends to happen when your offense puts up more points and plays at a faster pace. I believe we were one of the fastest paced teams last season and we were certainly one of the highest scoring offenses, so purely from a "time on field" standpoint, our defense was going to be worse... Whether that's still true prorated for pace of play and other factors, I'm not sure.

 

It's also extremely silly to pretend like Beane is the only one providing input on these selections. They're absolutely collaborating on making these decisions. Furthermore, the more recently drafted guys have also suffered injuries or (though I'm loathe to defend him), like Oliver, forced into bad roles because of other injuries... I think it's pretty likely the D looks better this year.

Eh, the three-and-out offenses before last year left the defense on the field a lot.

[Thurman#1]

 

On 4/17/2021 at 1:32 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

Knowing him doesn't make his clown threads less insufferable. 

 

On 4/17/2021 at 2:36 AM, FireChans said:

Lighten up Francis. Take a deep breath.

 

 

 

Thing is, when he's right, he's right.

 

On 4/16/2021 at 10:09 PM, FireChans said:

 

Name which defenders are currently on our roster and better than the ones I listed?

 

 

 

Just read my post again. It was correct then and correct now. Tre and Milano are the two best. Beyond that there's a bunch of good guys without much between them. The other two brought in before Beane got here to help are among that group, a group of older guys who play very well in the scheme and a group of younger guys who look like they're still developing, also helped out by the scheme. 

 

But leaving Oliver and our two-time Pro bowler out shows what nearly most people answering this thread are telling you ... your evaluations are clearly off.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 4/17/2021 at 2:36 AM, FireChans said:

 

The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

 

 

In this scenario, you're the sloth.

 

 

On 4/17/2021 at 2:36 AM, FireChans said:

 

How many defensive starters did we have opt out?

 

 

The one we were physically unable to replace, particularly that late in the process. The planet theory guy.

 

 

On 4/17/2021 at 2:36 AM, FireChans said:

 

 

Did we wax the Chiefs offense when we had a week to prepare in the postseason? Kind of a weak excuse tbh. 

 

 

So, that's your new benchmark for a good defense? One that's able to wax the Chiefs offense? Could you real quick write up a list of 7 or 8 defenses that were good by that measure?

 

And it sure ain't like our offense waxed the Chiefs defense, is it? By your definition, the offense must also suck.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The goal line stand was helped out immensely by Philip Rivers, who missed a wide open receiver in the back of the end zone as he back peddled backwards into pressure for no apparent reason and overthrew him off his back foot. 

 

 

It was nonsense the last time you printed, word for word, this same comment. 

 

Still nonsense.

 

In fact, that reciever was about a half a step open, and hadn't fully come across the field into his open space when the pressure reached Rivers. He had to work through the trash in the middle of the field. 

 

And Butler and Addison were both less than a step from Rivers when he let it go. Neither guy had gone wide, they both ran through their OL's outside shoulder. There wasn't room for Rivers to do much of anything else. 

 

It was a damn good play by the Bills defense, forcing Rivers back off his spot and making the play tougher than it would have been if they'd been able to protect Rivers better. Rivers had to throw it an instant before he wanted to, and that threw off the timing.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 4/17/2021 at 9:57 AM, FireChans said:

You mean Nix.

 

 

Yes, you're right about this. The defense attributed to Whaley was mostly actually brought in under Nix. Whaley was part of the brain trust at that point, but the buck stopped with Nix.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

😅

 

The pressure "reached" Rivers because he back peddled into the pressure for no apparent reason when he had a clean pocket infront of him. 

 

It was a damn good play by Philip Rivers for the Bills defense. 

 

Your wrong again. 

 

 

You're right that the play reached Rivers - where it reached him - because he back-pedaled.

 

If he hadn't back-pedaled, the rush would have reached him much earlier. 

 

Sorry, man, that pocket was not clear up the middle, it simply wasn't. Butler and Addison pushed their guys back into Rivers. They didn't run the hoop and meet at the QB. They bull-rushed on the outside shoulder. If Rivers hadn't backed up, the blockers would have stepped on his legs two or three yards earlier. There was about half a yard between the two OLs at Rivers' original depth. He'd have almost certainly been constricted and swallowed up. 

 

If it had been maybe a five-step drop from center, then yeah, there was room to step up, but this was a slow-developing play. He was in shotgun and the design had him dropping to the 12 yard line at least. But the DLs had pushed the pocket to about the ten, and though they were stopped there, the DEs had beaten their guys by about the 12 or 13. The space available was too small to reach between the two DEs. Hughes and Butler were running a stunt and the pocket was narrow and unpredictable-looking early in the play.

 

Pittman took forever to run the pattern ... he was outside in trips, took a step forward and stopped to cut under the other two then ran sideways under the LBs. By the time Rivers hit the 13 yard line, Pittman hadn't even reached the hashes on the right side, much less the middle of the field, and he was running right towards Milano. Hadn't even reached Milano when Rivers had to throw it. 

 

Instead he at least got the ball away, though not from where he'd have liked. He had to feather it way over the top and try to give Pittman a chance to run under it. The Bills had it well-defended.

 

It's not only your spelling that is just so wrong on this.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Teddy KGB]

On 4/15/2021 at 7:51 PM, Mc1320 said:

Bad take bro......

Ed Oliver or Harrison Phillips or the Carolina retreads ? 

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

In this scenario, you're the sloth.

 

 

 

The one we were physically unable to replace, particularly that late in the process. The planet theory guy.

 

 

 

So, that's your new benchmark for a good defense? One that's able to wax the Chiefs offense? Could you real quick write up a list of 7 or 8 defenses that were good by that measure?

 

And it sure ain't like our offense waxed the Chiefs defense, is it? By your definition, the offense must also suck.

 

Of course a Beane Truther is also a “Star Loutotototototlelelele is irreplaceable” guy.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Of course a Beane Truther is also a “Star Loutotototototlelelele is irreplaceable” guy.

 

He didn't say Star is irreplaceable. He said the Bills were unable to replace him last year with the limited options they had, which is obviously true. They tried rotating Butler, Phillips, and Zimmer to fill that one spot, and the results were terrible. Phillips and Zimmer in particular regularly got blown off the ball. It was so bad that they had to play Oliver at 1-tech because despite being a natural 3-tech he was still better than any of the other players they tried to give the job to.

 

I see NC State DT Alim McNeill as a potential 3rd round option for the Bills. They need to find a developmental backup and long term replacement for Star so last year's problems don't resurface.

Edited April 18, 2021 by HappyDays