The Athletic: Russell Wilson and Seahawks growing further apart

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I looked up McMahon because I didn’t see him play and I know they won a SB with him. Dude sucked. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McMaJi00.htm

??? - McMahon was objectively above average in 6 of the 7 seasons he played for Chicago. Always look at adjusted passing, which compares like to like--and not McMahon circa 1985 to Patrick Mahomes circa 2019.  A rating in the low 80s in that era was pretty darn good. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McMaJi00.htm
 

He had only one season where he wasn't at least league average or better in the completion percentage category.

Edited February 25, 2021 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

??? - McMahon was objectively above average in 6 of the 7 seasons he played for Chicago. Always look at adjusted passing, which compares like to like--and not McMahon circa 1985 to Patrick Mahomes circa 2019.  A rating in the low 80s in that era was pretty darn good. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McMaJi00.htm

He had a career high of 15 tds and was closer to 12.  Averaged about 2,000 yards. I know it was a much harder era for qbs, but those are pretty garbage stats especially with the talent he had around him. 

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He had a career high of 15 tds and was closer to 12.  Averaged about 2,000 yards. I know it was a much harder era for qbs, but those are pretty garbage stats especially with the talent he had around him. 

Did you look at the adjusted stats? Or just the raw counting stats? The latter don't mean much to me. 

 

Bear in the mind that Chicago led the league in rushing three straight years (1984-86) and were always run-heavy, that they passed far less than average teams, and that McMahon played in 2 strike-shortened seasons (1982 and 1987). From 1983-86, they never finished worst than 7th in offensive yardage, and in 1987 and 1988 they finished 11th and 12th. 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by dave mcbride

[H2o]

On 2/10/2021 at 10:55 AM, H2o said:

There have been a few reports about how the Seahawks almost traded Wilson in 2018, with the pick supposedly going to be Josh Allen. Now you have multiple reports about Wilson being frustrated over not being involved in personnel decisions. These stories are starting to gain some steam after Russell Wilson's interview the other day. There is also talk of how he is a bit frustrated with how Pete Carroll wants the offense structured. Is this another relationship headed in a direction beyond possible repair? Below you will find a couple of links with quoted excerpts. You will need to read the full stories to get the complete context, but Russ sounds like he may be looking to chef it up somewhere else imo. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30868595/russell-wilson-frustrated-getting-hit-too-much-wants-more-say-seattle-seahawks-moves

Quote

"And I think that the reality of professional sports is things happen, things change. I'm not sure how long I'll play in Seattle. I think, hopefully, it can be forever. But things change, obviously, along the way. I think you focus on what you can control every day and try to be the best version of yourself and ultimately try to win championships. I think that's why I play this game."

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/09/brandon-marshall-says-russell-wilson-is-beyond-frustrated-with-seahawks/

Quote

“Russell Wilson is beyond frustrated. I think Russell Wilson is trying to figure out how to move on in a classy way. That’s what I truly believe.,” Marshall said. “… He’s trying to leave the legacy that he did things the right way so other guys can follow that same blueprint. So I think he struggles with how to move on in a classy way, in a way where people can look at him and say you know what, he still did it the right way. Because that’s important for Russ.”

 

 

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 Sub required on the Athletic article (worth it IMO). I provided some key segments later in thread.

People were laughing at this idea when I created the thread a couple of weeks ago. Looks like there was some traction after all. 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

Let’s just hope that something like this NEVER happens with JA.

 

#ABuffaloBillForLife

Nobody will ever hold Josh Allen more accountable than he holds himself, so I doubt it. 

[PrimeTime101]

Wilson if traded will want to go a team that is built to go far in the playoffs. 

 

I really really hate to say this.... But Miami has to be thinking... hmmm

 

lol

 

This is going to be one of the craziest years with teams having new QB's.  The Draft is going to have a ton of QB's go round one no matter where the talent is at.

 

crazy year

[H2o]

5 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Wilson if traded will want to go a team that is built to go far in the playoffs. 

 

I really really hate to say this.... But Miami has to be thinking... hmmm

 

lol

 

This is going to be one of the craziest years with teams having new QB's.  The Draft is going to have a ton of QB's go round one no matter where the talent is at.

 

crazy year

Well, Miami isn't listed as one of the destinations he would waive the "no trade" clause for so that's a good thing. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/25/agent-says-russell-wilson-would-accept-a-trade-only-to-the-cowboys-saints-raiders-or-bears/

[junior]

Good for Wilson. If he doesn't think Seattle is moving in the right direction, then he's free to look at alternate options.

 

It was the same for Diggs - didn't like how Minnesota was a run-first team, forced his way out, and both teams made out in the deal. 

[Royale with Cheese]

43 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He had a career high of 15 tds and was closer to 12.  Averaged about 2,000 yards. I know it was a much harder era for qbs, but those are pretty garbage stats especially with the talent he had around him. 

 

Troy Aikman averaged about 14 passing TD's per season, 2,700 yards per season and about 12 INT's per season.

He might have had the greatest offensive line in the history of the NFL and also had a HOF running back and WR.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[H2o]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

[Royale with Cheese]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

The Seahawks FO need to be......

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[CommonCents]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Wilson if traded will want to go a team that is built to go far in the playoffs. 

 

I really really hate to say this.... But Miami has to be thinking... hmmm

 

lol

 

This is going to be one of the craziest years with teams having new QB's.  The Draft is going to have a ton of QB's go round one no matter where the talent is at.

 

crazy year

If the NFL turns into the NBA I’m going to have to learn how to understand the score in Tennis. 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I also said WTF is wrong with Wilson.  He went from leading the MVP race to a below average QB in the last 1/4 of the season.

 

 

 

He did and he has done that two years in a row now. He has been the consensus MVP through 8 weeks two years running and fallen apart down the stretch. The point about him hurting protection schemes has some merit too. Didn't see all the Seahawks games down the stretch but I watched that Giants game and I was like "man Russ the pocket was fine why are you escaping?" On at least 3 or 4 occasions.

 

Interesting times.

[whatdrought]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I can’t believe all the energy I wasted defending a guy named Losman. He was never going to be good. 

He also looked like a total Douche. Two major red flags. 
 

also, 7 is a garbage QB number.*
 

*this opinion may have been birthed in large part by watching JP Losman 

[HOUSE]

7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I just realized he will turn 33 in November. Always think of him as a younger guy.

He runs like Ron McDole

[TBBills]

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

Good 3 NFC teams and a beatable Raiders.

[MJS]

8 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 We all know Ciara will choose the team 

Wow, and three of those are being discussed for trading this off-season. Funny.

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

Well, Miami isn't listed as one of the destinations he would waive the "no trade" clause for so that's a good thing. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/25/agent-says-russell-wilson-would-accept-a-trade-only-to-the-cowboys-saints-raiders-or-bears/

thanks for the info

[klos63]

10 hours ago, Seoulofstone said:

 Could it be 300lb men continually crashing into him and the relentless pressure to score 30 points in order for his team to even be in a game? 

We beat the crap out of him. Never seen him get hit like that before. He wasn't the same after that game.

[BuffaloBills1998]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Wilson if traded will want to go a team that is built to go far in the playoffs. 

 

I really really hate to say this.... But Miami has to be thinking... hmmm

 

lol

 

This is going to be one of the craziest years with teams having new QB's.  The Draft is going to have a ton of QB's go round one no matter where the talent is at.

 

crazy year

I think Miami is all in on Watson, Russell at this point has reached his ceiling. Watson is only 25 and barley in his prime while Russell is in his mid 30s and is more of a what you see is what you get type of player now

[aristocrat]

Seems there could be lots of moving superstars in the future like the nba. Wonder if contracts will change cause of this so not much dead money?  
 

run a good team players will stay

[Punching Bag]

20 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 We all know Ciara will choose the team 

 

And most teams will not choose Ciara.

8 hours ago, aristocrat said:

Seems there could be lots of moving superstars in the future like the nba. Wonder if contracts will change cause of this so not much dead money?  
 

run a good team players will stay

 

Players forcing themselves out trying to keep signing bonuses like Wat$son will.

[Rochesterfan]

19 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

A very critical point of Allen’s career will be who replaces Daboll when the time comes. If the Bills see him as their franchise, they must include him in that process and seriously consider his opinions. They absolutely have to get that hire right. This is not said in relation to the Watson situation as that was about the HC. It is somewhat related to the Carson Wentz fallout, as the changing of the guard at OC after Reich left to be a HC was poorly handled internally from reports and a poor selection.

 

I 100% agree, but you also have to be very careful about letting him have to much say.  Look at Cleveland when they fired Hue Jackson/Greggo.  The Browns wanted to make Mayfield comfortable - so instead of keeping Greggo that had won some games or going outside the organization to find a replacement- they just promoted Kitchens (way over promoted) because of Mayfield.

 

I want Josh to have input because he and his next OC need to be able to see eye to eye, but it also has to be someone that fits with the rest of the staff and can call a good game.  I do not mind an internal promotion - if they get another assistant on the offensive side that has called plays successfully in the NFL to help if Ken Dorsey or Chad Hall gets the promotion.

 

As to the Wilson situation- I do not want my QB having a ton of input on the players you are bringing in.  The HC and GM need to take an entire team approach and can not be fixated on appeasing the QB, but if it is a franchise guy - it seems fairly easy to just be open and have a continuous talk about guys they like and what fits and what doesn’t.  
 

I have read the stories - I just do not understand the Wilson saga because that team has done a ton to try and build around Wilson - trading for OLine help, signing questionable players at WR because they might help the pass game, bringing in FA running backs, etc.  I get that he felt (feels) dismissed, but dude - look at how that team has tried to help.

 

I want Josh to be happy and feel free to go see Beane/McD to talk about guys and plans, but I also want those guys to push back and say here is our 1, 3, and 5 year plans and we will see how we can mesh.  The balancing act is so delicate, but so vital and gets harder and harder as some of these QBs push for things way outside their job description.

[colin]

not a fan of the big contract qb's getting cold feet after the fact and getting traded (if it happens, anyhow) but given his contract status, wilson has to be worth 2 firsts +.  a top fight qb at like 23mm per year for 3 years is a massive come up.  i suppose he could lose out not having his WRs, but sometimes a change is needed.

 

id say chicago or pittz if ben retires is the best spot, but pittz has cap issues and evidently wilson isn't targetting chicago.  he'd instantly be the greatest qb ever in that town, would create a huge buzz.

[bobobonators]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I think Miami is all in on Watson, Russell at this point has reached his ceiling. Watson is only 25 and barley in his prime while Russell is in his mid 30s and is more of a what you see is what you get type of player now

Wilson is 32 and an MVP candidate. I like what i see and get there. 

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I 100% agree, but you also have to be very careful about letting him have to much say.  Look at Cleveland when they fired Hue Jackson/Greggo.  The Browns wanted to make Mayfield comfortable - so instead of keeping Greggo that had won some games or going outside the organization to find a replacement- they just promoted Kitchens (way over promoted) because of Mayfield.

 

I want Josh to have input because he and his next OC need to be able to see eye to eye, but it also has to be someone that fits with the rest of the staff and can call a good game.  I do not mind an internal promotion - if they get another assistant on the offensive side that has called plays successfully in the NFL to help if Ken Dorsey or Chad Hall gets the promotion.

 

As to the Wilson situation- I do not want my QB having a ton of input on the players you are bringing in.  The HC and GM need to take an entire team approach and can not be fixated on appeasing the QB, but if it is a franchise guy - it seems fairly easy to just be open and have a continuous talk about guys they like and what fits and what doesn’t.  
 

I have read the stories - I just do not understand the Wilson saga because that team has done a ton to try and build around Wilson - trading for OLine help, signing questionable players at WR because they might help the pass game, bringing in FA running backs, etc.  I get that he felt (feels) dismissed, but dude - look at how that team has tried to help.

 

I want Josh to be happy and feel free to go see Beane/McD to talk about guys and plans, but I also want those guys to push back and say here is our 1, 3, and 5 year plans and we will see how we can mesh.  The balancing act is so delicate, but so vital and gets harder and harder as some of these QBs push for things way outside their job description.

 

Do QBs have a say on coaching staff hires?    The answer to that is No

[DCOrange]

19 hours ago, whatdrought said:

“I’m sicka your run first defense team! Trade me to the bears!!”

The Bears were quietly one of the most pass-heavy teams in the league last year, and that was with maybe the worst QB situation in the league.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, prissythecat said:

Do QBs have a say on coaching staff hires?    The answer to that is No

They’re starting to think they do. 

[prissythecat]

33 minutes ago, Doc said:

They’re starting to think they do. 

 

Yes.  That is pretty interesting.   They also think they should have a say in the hiring of a GM.

[RyanC883]

On 2/25/2021 at 10:50 AM, MiltonWaddams said:

So, the question is whose acquisition cost will be higher, Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson? Russell has a Super Bowl on his résumé and a lot of winning seasons. Deshaun is younger, but his stats and skillset jump off the page.

 

Watson > Wilson.  He is younger and more talented.  

[BaaadThingsMan]

Nowhere to put this but whaaaaat????

[whatdrought]

16 minutes ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

Nowhere to put this but whaaaaat????

go hire whoever crossed out the name just so we can fire his ass again.

[RyanC883]

I think he ends up on the Jets.   He's been wanting (well, his wife) has wanted to be in NYC.  I hope he goes there and sucks (nothing against him, just the Jets)!

3 hours ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

Nowhere to put this but whaaaaat????

 

THAT'S wild.  Although, don't they make the Jerseys for a few people?  They suddenly have them after the pick is announced?  

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

I think he ends up on the Jets.   He's been wanting (well, his wife) has wanted to be in NYC.  I hope he goes there and sucks (nothing against him, just the Jets)!

 

Being a member of JEST would be great. Bills neutralized him with a better team in 2020 and him playing in NJ will be worst for him.

And I will love to see NYC media tear him apart.

[GunnerBill]

18 hours ago, Doc said:

They’re starting to think they do. 

 

In fairness teams are starting to give them more influence. Teams are thinking about the fit with their Quarterback when they hire coaches. The Rams had McVay meet Goff and talk football before they finalised his hiring. The Packers took Rodgers's view before hiring LaFleur. 

[Doc Brown]

20 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

Do QBs have a say on coaching staff hires?    The answer to that is No

Any smart organization that has an established elite franchise QB locked up for big money should absolutely ask for their opinion.  I'm talking a top 5 established QB in their prime though.

[Doc Brown]

21 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

I have read the stories - I just do not understand the Wilson saga because that team has done a ton to try and build around Wilson - trading for OLine help, signing questionable players at WR because they might help the pass game, bringing in FA running backs, etc.  I get that he felt (feels) dismissed, but dude - look at how that team has tried to help.

Also, he takes a 4 year 140 million dollar contract and is upset they aren't signing better offensive free agents?  I know complimenting Brady is heresy on this board but he could've made more money at the cost of a worst supporting cast throughout his career.  Instead he has seven rings.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Doc Brown

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Also, he takes a 4 year 140 million dollar contract and is upset they aren't signing better offensive free agents?  I know complimenting Brady is heresy on this board but he could've made more money at the cost of a worst supporting cast throughout his career.  Instead he has seven rings.

 

Yep. Brady has only set the market once in his career - in his 2010 contract renegotiation. When he signed in 2005 coming off 3 Superbowls in 4 years he took the third highest deal in the league, after Peyton Manning and Michael Vick. 

[Matt_In_NH]

I hate that the nfl is going the way of the nba.   For me this is a clear case of “stay in you lane Russell”.  He’s the qb, team and community leader.  Now he wants to be a capilogist/gm?   In the nfl that takes a lot of work, let the pros do their job.   If you want an example of how to get away, look no further than Brady...play out your deal and leave.