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Could the Bills be looking to incorporate a Thug OL?

Tipster19

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dorquemada Veteran

dorquemada

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1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Yes/no as if we didn't trade Teller we might not have traded for Diggs (see us having extra draft picks). 

 

who needs the best receiver in the NFL when we could have a guy that PFF says is a good OL.  yikes we'll be in 7-9 hell forever

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Buffalo Junction Veteran

Buffalo Junction

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is a day 3 flier at best for me for exactly those reasons. The defensive linemen he is going to be facing week in and week out in the NFL have a lot more fast twitch and will be past him before he has lumbered up out of his stance and got his hands on them. I suspect he will end up with a LOT of holding penalties as a result. Although if the NFL is going to be as lax with holding moving forward as it was this past season maybe that should worry me less. Just not my kind of prospect at all and I actually think he will go a lot lower than people expect. I have seen a lot of people with round 2 grades on him but I'd be shocked if he goes before late round 3.

He’s the type of player that’s hurt by the combine changes. Showing up around 335-340 and showing some burst would be good for his draft stock. 

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The Frankish Reich All Pro

The Frankish Reich

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16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You seem to be somehow confusing "stepping up as a tough guy" or being an enforcer, with being a physical OL.

 

Other teams get paid.  Their front 7 are strong and physical. 

 

Therefore, technique matters.

Exactly. This whole "tough guys" or "thugs" thing is way overdone. Look at the best lines in football. By the end of the year, Tampa was up there. Who's the "thug" on the Tampa O line? Probably the best move they made last offseason (outside of, umm, signing that other guy) was moving up to draft Tristan Wirfs - a tackle known for huge size/athleticism, but also characterized as a guy who "plays under control" rather than as "nasty" or "mean" or "a thug."

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/4/7/21208681/tristan-wirfs-nfl-draft-2020-tackle-iowa-film-highlights-projection-bucs-tom-brady

 

The biggest single factor in how the KC offensive line failed in the Super Bowl was the loss of Pro Bowler Eric Fisher at LT, also a guy who is just damn good without ever being referred to as a "thug." They were also missing a couple other (non-thug) starters on the line (not even counting Duvernay-Tardif, M.D., who is kind of a healer and protector rather than a destroyer) and the whole thing fell apart. In fact, their O line was at its best when anchored by non-thug Mitch Morse.

 

So go ahead, draft and acquire thugs, be the Raiders of Al Davis' last years on earth, be the most penalized team in football and go 5-11 to 8-8 every year with tough guy coach Tom Cable setting the thug tone.

Or build a line of good athletes who understand their roles and schemes and maybe win something.

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Tipster19 Veteran

Tipster19

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3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Exactly. This whole "tough guys" or "thugs" thing is way overdone. Look at the best lines in football. By the end of the year, Tampa was up there. Who's the "thug" on the Tampa O line? Probably the best move they made last offseason (outside of, umm, signing that other guy) was moving up to draft Tristan Wirfs - a tackle known for huge size/athleticism, but also characterized as a guy who "plays under control" rather than as "nasty" or "mean" or "a thug."

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/4/7/21208681/tristan-wirfs-nfl-draft-2020-tackle-iowa-film-highlights-projection-bucs-tom-brady

 

The biggest single factor in how the KC offensive line failed in the Super Bowl was the loss of Pro Bowler Eric Fisher at LT, also a guy who is just damn good without ever being referred to as a "thug." They were also missing a couple other (non-thug) starters on the line (not even counting Duvernay-Tardif, M.D., who is kind of a healer and protector rather than a destroyer) and the whole thing fell apart. In fact, their O line was at its best when anchored by non-thug Mitch Morse.

 

So go ahead, draft and acquire thugs, be the Raiders of Al Davis' last years on earth, be the most penalized team in football and go 5-11 to 8-8 every year with tough guy coach Tom Cable setting the thug tone.

Or build a line of good athletes who understand their roles and schemes and maybe win something.

That’s good. I also noticed that when their QB got smashed nobody came to his defense either. I enjoyed when Kiko tried to pull his dirty play against Allen and Jordan Mills piled on him. I also believe that little melee helped to contribute to Teller getting traded imo.

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Niagara Dude Veteran

Niagara Dude

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On 2/17/2021 at 4:03 AM, machine gun kelly said:


I respect you’re opinion ND, I just don’t know.  They kept flip flopping him between tackle and guard that this year to me will be telling.  If healthy and only at guard, if he’s a bust, ok, move on.  I just think they weren’t sure where to place him until hurt.  You might be right.  My guess is they will evaluate in 2021 and then make a decision, whether starter, backup, ps, or cut.

I will give him another season,  if healthy and he has trouble staying on the field then i would say he is looking like a bust

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colin Veteran

colin

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On 2/16/2021 at 10:14 PM, deanjf said:

 

Ritchie blew huge holes open for Shady...

 

while he is basically a psycho who is one bad night from going totally off the rails, ritchie was loved by all of his teammates (except the one kid he bullied into retirement) and is a monster guard.

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Jauronimo Hall of Famer

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On 2/17/2021 at 7:58 AM, Mr. WEO said:

so they swap out Morse for someone else, keep the rest and--presto--they are suddenly a bunch of tough guys?

 

lol 

Could the Bills be looking to build a thug offensive line by keeping all the same pieces and maybe adding a thug or two???? Could Beane and his scouts be scouring the nation looking for THUGS???  Did OP start this thread just to type THUGS before offering his special brand of baseless speculation?  Bills THUGS-n Oline-play.  Kim Pegula is thug Lovin' in 2021.  THUGS only. Non-thugs need not apply. 

 

Is this thread a racist dog whistle like I'm told every other use of the term thug is? Penny for your THUGS on the matter.  

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

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3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Could the Bills be looking to build a thug offensive line by keeping all the same pieces and maybe adding a thug or two???? Could Beane and his scouts be scouring the nation looking for THUGS???  Did OP start this thread just to type THUGS before offering his special brand of baseless speculation?  Bills THUGS-n Oline-play.  Kim Pegula is thug Lovin' in 2021.  THUGS only. Non-thugs need not apply. 

 

Is this thread a racist dog whistle like I'm told every other use of the term thug is? Penny for your THUGS on the matter.  

 

I would risk another 1 day suspension, should I answer this directly....

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Beerball Hall of Famer

Beerball

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On 2/16/2021 at 3:07 PM, Tipster19 said:

I think so. If the the defenses isn’t physical, and they’re not, they why not make the OL the tough guys? The capabilities are there. Get rid of Morse while you can and make Feliciano the Center. Not only could the Bills save some $$$ in a cash strapped year but they’ll also strengthen a physicality to the OL.
 

Having Cody Ford coming back this year will only reinforce that concept. Keep Cody at Guard and the ShnowMan showed me something in the AFC Championship game. He stepped up as a tough guy when KC was getting a bit chippy with Josh. I didn’t know if he had it in him but I don’t question that now. 

 

I don’t know enough about D. Williams or Ike but it wouldn’t surprise me if Williams bought into this concept. Either way having 2, possible 3, physical OL would be more than enough to send a message to defenses. I’d like to see another bad ass at the Guard position to solidify this. Someone like the Giants’ OG Will Hernandez would be a perfect compliment to this concept. Does anyone know if there’s someone out there, whether be by draft, trade or FA, like Hernandez?

Do you endorse thug behavior on the football field?

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Victory Formation Veteran

Victory Formation

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On 2/16/2021 at 7:29 PM, Niagara Dude said:

Ford looks like a bust,  i know most get upset hearing this but he is not very good.  Wasted pick,

Could be, but at this point his contract is palatable. Think you add a couple guys in the draft and let them compete. Can typically find good IL prospects in the bottom of second and top of the third.


Good tackle prospects are hard to come by unless you take one in the first or top of the second. Think you re-sign Daryl Williams and add an interior lineman in the second. Should be loaded with talent, although thinner at tackle than we’d like. Hopefully we can add a project to groom behind Dawkins and Williams.

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billsfan_34 All Pro

billsfan_34

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On 2/16/2021 at 3:16 PM, somnus00 said:

I love Feliciano's attitude. But I don't love his play.

 

We can save a lot of money by restructuring Morse. D. Williams should be the priority free agent to retain for the Bills. Then we will probably draft a guard in the high / mid rounds of the draft. If they can sign a good free agent to act as a bridge or competition for Ford and Boettger, that would be great.

 

I really think we're realistically looking at Dawkins / FA / Morse / Ford / Williams as the starting line next year. With Bates, Boettger, another FA, and rookie as backups.

Why dont you like Felicianos’ play? Versatile lineman that had an incredible year. What am I missing? Ford has been epically bad imo but he gets a pass- year 3 he needs to step up. Morse is good in pass protection but subpar in run blocking.

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TailgateChef Rookie

TailgateChef

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7 hours ago, Pete said:

I like the idea of drafting Wyatt Davis, especially if we sign JJ.  Dawkins and Davis my key lineman in future years, I'd build around those 2.

Then draft TE, RB, LB, S, CB, Edge

Yes!  Though I'd change up your draft order a bit:  LB, TE, S, CB, Edge (if Watt is a Bill, if not, then 3rd round), then take a late flier on a RB.

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Tipster19 Veteran

Tipster19

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14 hours ago, Beerball said:

Do you endorse thug behavior on the football field?

Ok, I misused the description of what I meant. What I was trying to get across was I’d like to see the OL to be tough physical players, not thugs, gangsters or anything that has criminal elements in their play, I misspoke.

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Victory Formation Veteran

Victory Formation

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On 2/16/2021 at 3:07 PM, Tipster19 said:

I think so. If the the defenses isn’t physical, and they’re not, they why not make the OL the tough guys? The capabilities are there. Get rid of Morse while you can and make Feliciano the Center. Not only could the Bills save some $$$ in a cash strapped year but they’ll also strengthen a physicality to the OL.
 

Having Cody Ford coming back this year will only reinforce that concept. Keep Cody at Guard and the ShnowMan showed me something in the AFC Championship game. He stepped up as a tough guy when KC was getting a bit chippy with Josh. I didn’t know if he had it in him but I don’t question that now. 

 

I don’t know enough about D. Williams or Ike but it wouldn’t surprise me if Williams bought into this concept. Either way having 2, possible 3, physical OL would be more than enough to send a message to defenses. I’d like to see another bad ass at the Guard position to solidify this. Someone like the Giants’ OG Will Hernandez would be a perfect compliment to this concept. Does anyone know if there’s someone out there, whether be by draft, trade or FA, like Hernandez?

I absolutely understand what you’re getting at. I do think it’s important. We need a better OL and we need a more violent and aggressive front seven. In my mind, you go pass rush at #30. At #61 I think you can do a myriad of different things here. Could go DT, could go LB, could go corner even. Need more OL help for sure, but shall we cut Morse or let Feliciano and Williams walk when our defensive front seven is in tatters? I think not. At this point we are begging for Ford to turn into a big nasty guard. Could add depth on the OL RDs 3-7.

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