Reader Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 In the past few weeks I have seen the gamut of "these guys are busts" to "they have been out of position" to "they (mainly Oliver) are on the verge of breaking out". What are your assessment of these two, maybe, core players to build around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan Huff Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Oliver is completely invisible on the field 3 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamb412 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 edmunds is young the dude is still growing. I wasn't that much of a fan of Oliver when drafted at a DT. he is too small as a DT. I don't know why they don't try him at DE 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Move Edmunds to OLB already. He has so much physical potential he would be a commanding trade bait if we so chose. Oliver needs a big stud DT to play by his side so he can utilize his speed better. He had his moments. 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) Edmunds frustrates me. I still hear how "young" he is, and age wise sure. But I thought general GM wisdom was that player's NFL experience means a heck of a lot more than date of birth. For these reasons I don't mind rolling the dice with Oliver next year. I say busts until proven otherwise. And Edmunds is running out of time to do so. Edited January 25, 2021 by FormerlyPT5P 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Good post. Yesterday's loss had me thinking about this same question since between Edmunds, Oliver and Epenesa we have invested 3 very high picks. Edmunds isn't developing. Oliver isn't penetrating at a rate I'd expect. Epenesa, jury's still out - was surprised that he got the nod over Murphy yesterday. 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Oliver will be considered a bust at 9. Edmunds is still very salvageable 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) I am not sure about Edmunds, I have always wondered if he is too big, he is so lanky and does not stop/change directions quickly. Maybe he is not in the ideal position. I think Oliver is a bit of a disapointment at this point, not a bust but not living up to the pre draft hype yet. He had some decent moments this year, just not enough. Edited January 25, 2021 by mattynh 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Oliver would be much better with a real 1 tech next to him. Regarding Edmunds, I see him at replacement level. but he is still young, so he could improve. he is more of an outside LB. He is a huge liability in the run game. If we can't keep Edmunds, we could pick up a 1 tech and draft Edmunds replacement. Overall, the DL is a huge issue. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I usually take my gut (after watching every Bills game, but not the All 22s) and weigh it against other opinions just to see if I'm way out of line. (This works really well for defensive ratings in baseball; not so good for football). Here, my gut is neither one was particularly good. And a quick check of the dreaded PFF agrees - both were below average. Kind of in JAG territory which sucks because they were supposed to be impact players. Before everyone gets on me for citing PFF: I'm willing to listen to what other so-called professional observers say. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Edmunds should have never been an MLB. His tape from college all screamed OLB. Oliver needs a big 1T to be effective. Nothing wrong with that, but when Star opted out, the GM failed him by not filling that role. I would love to draft a true MLB and letting Milano walk to move Edmunds over. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I don't want to draw any conclusions from yesterday. I want to revisit a lot of questions after the Chiefs annihilate the Bucs next week. I'll feel so much better about things. And even if they don't win....Tampa is the most talented team in the NFC and if Brady is on they are one of the 3 best teams in the league. That said, I think Oliver is a bigger problem right now. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, Reader said: In the past few weeks I have seen the gamut of "these guys are busts" to "they have been out of position" to "they (mainly Oliver) are on the verge of breaking out". What are your assessment of these two, maybe, core players to build around? No, and they really never have been. For all of his altehtic talent, and the fact that hE's OnLy [insert age here], Edmunds is a liability when actually playing football and Oliver is a mostly invisible player that can probably hang around the league but will never be an impact player. Neither one is good enough to start ona team that wants to dethrone a dynasty. We need an All-Pro in the middle that can stop the pass and the run. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artem Lipatov Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Oliver is disappointment for #9 pick. Almost Invisible for 2 years. He was compared with Aaron Donald (DT making havoc in backfield) but not even close. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, mattynh said: I am not sure about Edmunds, I have always wondered if he is too big, he is so lanky and does not stop/change directions quickly. Maybe he is not in the ideal position. I think Oliver is a bit of a disapointment at this point, not a bust but not living up to the pre draft hype yet. He had some decent moments this year, just not enough. Edmunds looks so easy to block. Could be his size and him not figuring out how to use it for him to be a better football player rather than against him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyo321 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) Edmunds is a total bust. Can't read plays, his tackling skills are pathetic for a LB, constantly reads the play wrong too many times and is out of position. I watched the TB vs GB game yesterday and could not believe the difference in their LB's play vs our squad. TB's linebackers are ruthless. We don't have anything close to that. Even Milano who is the best of our LB's can't touch TB's LB core. Edited January 25, 2021 by Toyo321 2 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Oliver is the reason I love big, sloppy DTs with a mean streak. You cannot coach or teach God-given massive bulk. Oliver is a high effort guy but he is just plain too small. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I believe they are but would like to see them playing or at least tried in different positions to see if they can optimize there talents . I think if Ed could be used at times off the edge seeing as they say he has a great first step they may find him better suited there and Edmunds maybe on the outside rather than the middle . Nothing ventured nothing gained ! Peter's started out as a TE and with the change has went on to be one of the best LT's to ever play who knows they could have another one on this roster but if they don't try they will never know if that could be a possibility . Oliver is basically the same size as John Randle but Randle's heart is incomparable and i'm not sure but would think the average weight of a O lineman when he played would be less than today just because of nutrition and weight training today in comparison . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 The short answer for both is yes. I'm guilty of giving players too much benefit of the doubt, but I look at Oliver's play in the context of our overall line. He's not lining up with very strong players around him. When you watch him on most downs, he is generally fighting off double teams. I know that's an old excuse - but he is a good player. When he's one on one, he has that ability to overpower the guy he's matched up with. He's strong and aggressive. I think he's a good foundation to build around. The defensive line basically needs an overhaul at this point, but he's a keeper, imo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWK Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 It's year three and Edmunds hasn't shown much improvement. I know he's young, but he is very below average. Never makes a big play, and always seems to lose his man when he drops into coverage. He is also a very bad tackler. I don't think he's bad enough to cut or anything, but the extension talk for him is insane. Paying him is a move we will regret. I don't even know if it's a good idea to pick up his option, which will be for about 14 million. Oliver I'm not sure on. He has stretches where he plays well and seems to be coming on, but then he does nothing for a while. Some of it might be scheme and the excessive rotation we do on the D-Line, but I'm not sure. I'm not ready to give up on him yet, but we need some improvement from him next year. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I feel like Edmunds was picked on multiple times. He falls for the "window dressing " as they say, way too much- motion , play action , pump fakes . Gotta watch the all 22. But I've said all year that once he got healthy around week 8-9 , the D started to look like the 2019 D. I'll chalk it up to a bad game and gameplan. I think Oliver is very good , I think not having Star really hurt him 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) No right now they arent. With Oliver at least you get him taking up some double teams, but he has offered you very little in terms of pass rush, which is what you drafted him to do. On Edmunds, I am sick of watching him play. For everyone in this thread who keeps saying he is young, you gotta let him develop...can you please tell me what he is good at? Where does he make an impact on the field? What does he excel at? Because when I watch the kid play he looks like a giant who cant tackle well, isnt all that physical intimidating, is slow to process plays, is constantly getting juked out of his shoes and has done nothing in terms of rushing the passer. Every week I watch him play, I think to myself what the hell am I missing? Edited January 25, 2021 by thenorthremembers 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokes84 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Edmunds has no instincts. I don’t think that’s something you develop either, it’s innate. His brother plays the same way, and Pittsburgh ran out of patience and cut him. Oliver is a fine rotational player, but he was massively over drafted. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Neither one of them would be in any long term plans if it was my call. Oliver is probably the most forgettable player on the Roster. Edmunds looks the part but is still waiting for the light to come on in year 4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 move Oliver to DE move Edmunds to OLB 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Stokes84 said: Edmunds has no instincts. I don’t think that’s something you develop either, it’s innate. His brother plays the same way, and Pittsburgh ran out of patience and cut him. Oliver is a fine rotational player, but he was massively over drafted. I agree to an extent but Pitt didn't cut Terrell, their 1st rd Safety. And wasn't the other bro a RB? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Edmunds has shown he can be good but not great. I think he's best suited as a strong side LB and feel is better at rushing the passer then being a sideline to sideline guy. Because he was named to 2 Pro Bowls think he'll be looking for too big a contract to keep. Oliver on other hand just hasn't been shown to be much. Like Edmunds I keep them for their 4 years and not rush to re-sign to top end money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, papazoid said: move Oliver to DE move Edmunds to OLB Id LOVE THIS . At least try! I think Edmunds could even play DE but that'll never happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWK Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, JerseyBills said: I agree to an extent but Pitt didn't cut Terrell, their 1st rd Safety. And wasn't the other bro a RB? Yep, that's who they cut. But Terrell does have some serious issues at safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, JerseyBills said: I agree to an extent but Pitt didn't cut Terrell, their 1st rd Safety. And wasn't the other bro a RB? The other brother got cut. The safety is still on the team but is in trouble of being demoted, Steelers are incredibly unhappy with his production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Both have been disappointing. Crazy idea but try Oliver at MLB and put Edmunds at DE on some downs. Why the hell not!?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, The Jokeman said: Edmunds has shown he can be good but not great. I think he's best suited as a strong side LB and feel is better at rushing the passer then being a sideline to sideline guy. Because he was named to 2 Pro Bowls think he'll be looking for too big a contract to keep. Oliver on other hand just hasn't been shown to be much. Like Edmunds I keep them for their 4 years and not rush to re-sign to top end money. I honestly think Edmunds best position may be 3-4 Edge Rusher. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
947 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Draft Zaven Collins to take Edmunds' role, Edmonds take's over Milano's role, Let Milano walk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, thenorthremembers said: I honestly think Edmunds best position may be 3-4 Edge Rusher. Belichick could use him no doubt in a Chandler Jones roll. Yet think he tops out at 8 sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokes84 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: I agree to an extent but Pitt didn't cut Terrell, their 1st rd Safety. And wasn't the other bro a RB? Oops... yeah, that’s right. They cut Trey, the RB. I remember watching the game before Trey was cut, and the safety was just whiffing on tackles. Then when the news broke, I just assumed that it was him. My bad. The point still stands, the Edmunds brothers are physical specimens that don’t love to tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, The Jokeman said: Belichick could use him no doubt in a Chandler Jones roll. Yet think he tops out at 8 sacks. Just a half a sack less than what we got from our top two pass rushers this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costrovs Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Edmunds was an OLB in college, but McD converted him to MLB. That hasn't really worked out very well. I (and probably McD and others) were hoping for a Luke Kuechly-esque MLB. I'm honestly not sure how he's made the pro bowl these past couple seasons. Oliver's to small for DT, I never liked the pick when it happened. He's playing exactly how I thought he would play, like crap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: The other brother got cut. The safety is still on the team but is in trouble of being demoted, Steelers are incredibly unhappy with his production. yea. He was a major reach imo and hasn't flashed much of anything imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills6969 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Edmunds definitely regressed since last year. Maybe battling an injury? Oliver doesn’t really impress me much. I think as a whole, the entire front 7 just leaves a lot to be desired. Biggest weakness is in the trenches. We just lack physicality up front. No pressure on QB, can’t stop the run. As a result that puts a lot of pressure on good LB play to hit the gaps, make tackles and cover guys in the middle. Beane needs to prioritize the Dline this offseason. Total revamp needed. Draft/sign some big, mean dudes in the middle. A good pass rusher is a must. Maybe move Oliver to DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Well not sure yet, but maybe Oliver would make more of an impact with a big DT beside him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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