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So...are Edmunds and Oliver good?


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In the past few weeks I have seen the gamut of "these guys are busts" to "they have been out of position" to "they (mainly Oliver) are on the verge of breaking out". What are your assessment of these two, maybe, core players to build around? 

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Move Edmunds to OLB already.  He has so much physical potential he would be a commanding trade bait if we so chose.   Oliver needs a big stud DT to play by his side so he can utilize his spe

Oliver is completely invisible on the field 

Edmunds is a total bust.  Can't read plays, his tackling skills are pathetic for a LB, constantly reads the play wrong too many times and is out of position.  I watched the TB vs GB game yesterday and

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Edmunds frustrates me. I still hear how "young" he is, and age wise sure. But I thought general GM wisdom was that player's NFL experience means a heck of a lot more than date of birth.

 

For these reasons I don't mind rolling the dice with Oliver next year.

 

I say busts until proven otherwise. And Edmunds is running out of time to do so.

Edited by FormerlyPT5P
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Good post.  Yesterday's loss had me thinking about this same question since between Edmunds, Oliver and Epenesa  we have invested 3 very high picks.

 

Edmunds isn't developing.  Oliver isn't penetrating at a rate I'd expect.  Epenesa, jury's still out - was surprised that he got the nod over Murphy yesterday.

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I am not sure about Edmunds, I have always wondered if he is too big, he is so lanky and does not stop/change directions quickly.  Maybe he is not in the ideal position.  I think Oliver is a bit of a disapointment at this point, not a bust but not living up to the pre draft hype yet.   He had some decent moments this year, just not enough.

Edited by mattynh
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Oliver would be much better with a real 1 tech next to him.  Regarding Edmunds, I see him at replacement level.  but he is still young, so he could improve.  he is more of an outside LB.  He is a huge liability in the run game.  If we can't keep Edmunds, we could pick up a 1 tech and draft Edmunds replacement.  Overall, the DL is a huge issue.  

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I usually take my gut (after watching every Bills game, but not the All 22s) and weigh it against other opinions just to see if I'm way out of line. (This works really well for defensive ratings in baseball; not so good for football).

Here, my gut is neither one was particularly good. And a quick check of the dreaded PFF agrees - both were below average. Kind of in JAG territory which sucks because they were supposed to be impact players.

Before everyone gets on me for citing PFF: I'm willing to listen to what other so-called professional observers say.

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Edmunds should have never been an MLB.  His tape from college all screamed OLB.

 

Oliver needs a big 1T to be effective.  Nothing wrong with that, but when Star opted out, the GM failed him by not filling that role.  I would love to draft a true MLB and letting Milano walk to move Edmunds over.

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I don't want to draw any conclusions from yesterday.

 

I want to revisit a lot of questions after the Chiefs annihilate the Bucs next week.

 

I'll feel so much better about things.  And even if they don't win....Tampa is the most talented team in the NFC and if Brady is on they are one of the 3 best teams in the league.  

 

 

That said, I think Oliver is a bigger problem right now.  

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5 minutes ago, Reader said:

In the past few weeks I have seen the gamut of "these guys are busts" to "they have been out of position" to "they (mainly Oliver) are on the verge of breaking out". What are your assessment of these two, maybe, core players to build around? 

No, and they really never have been. For all of his altehtic talent, and the fact that hE's OnLy [insert age here], Edmunds is a liability when actually playing football and Oliver is a mostly invisible player that can probably hang around the league but will never be an impact player. Neither one is good enough to start ona  team that wants to dethrone a dynasty. We need an All-Pro in the middle that can stop the pass and the run.

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3 minutes ago, mattynh said:

I am not sure about Edmunds, I have always wondered if he is too big, he is so lanky and does not stop/change directions quickly.  Maybe he is not in the ideal position.  I think Oliver is a bit of a disapointment at this point, not a bust but not living up to the pre draft hype yet.   He had some decent moments this year, just not enough.

Edmunds looks so easy to block. Could be his size and him not figuring out how to use it for him to be a better football player rather than against him

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Edmunds is a total bust.  Can't read plays, his tackling skills are pathetic for a LB, constantly reads the play wrong too many times and is out of position.  I watched the TB vs GB game yesterday and could not believe the difference in their LB's play vs our squad.  TB's linebackers are ruthless.  We don't have anything close to that.  Even Milano who is the best of our LB's can't touch TB's LB core.

Edited by Toyo321
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I believe they are but would like to see them playing or at least tried in different positions to see if they can optimize there talents . I think if Ed could be used at times off the edge seeing as they say he has a great first step they may find him better suited there and Edmunds maybe on the outside rather than the middle .

 

Nothing ventured nothing gained ! Peter's started out as a TE and with the change has went on to be one of the best LT's to ever play who knows they could have another one on this roster but if they don't try they will never know if that could be a possibility .

 

Oliver is basically the same size as John Randle but Randle's heart is incomparable and i'm not sure but would think the average weight of a O lineman when he played would be less than today just because of nutrition and weight training today in comparison .

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The short answer for both is yes.

 

I'm guilty of giving players too much benefit of the doubt, but I look at Oliver's play in the context of our overall line.  He's not lining up with very strong players around him.

 

When you watch him on most downs, he is generally fighting off double teams. I know that's an old excuse - but he is a good player.  When he's one on one, he has that ability to overpower the guy he's matched up with.  He's strong and aggressive.

 

I think he's a good foundation to build around.  The defensive line basically needs an overhaul at this point, but he's a keeper, imo.

 

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It's year three and Edmunds hasn't shown much improvement. I know he's young, but he is very below average. Never makes a big play, and always seems to lose his man when he drops into coverage. He is also a very bad tackler. I don't think he's bad enough to cut or anything, but the extension talk for him is insane. Paying him is a move we will regret. I don't even know if it's a good idea to pick up his option, which will be for about 14 million.  Oliver I'm not sure on. He has stretches where he plays well and seems to be coming on, but then he does nothing for a while. Some of it might be scheme and the excessive rotation we do on the D-Line, but I'm not sure. I'm not ready to give up on him yet, but we need some improvement from him next year. 

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