Let’s talk Ike Boettger

[gonzo1105]

I was just thinking how he has kind of gone unheralded this year. Dude has been nothing but rock solid and had been nothing but overlooked with Spain, Ford, and Winters getting the early reps and playing time. 
 

With the cap being tight next year he will be a very cheap starter at LG. So that begs the question, does that mean the highly likable Feliciano walks so Ford can slot at RG and resign Williams?

 

Do we sign both Feliciano and Williams for continuity and trade Ford? I find it to be an interesting discussion. 

[IgotBILLStopay]

He is the glue that holds the line together. 

 

Dawkins, WIlliams and Mungo have been stellar all year. But Morse and Winters were the weak link. Once he moved in alongside Morse, suddenly the middle of the OL has looked so so solid. He has made Morse better no doubt. Allen has had all day to throw.

 

I'd keep all of em. Continuity is good on the Oline. And Ford will have a role when he returns since the Oline is always vulnerable to injuries.

Edited January 20, 2021 by IgotBILLStopay

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Beans collects offensive lineman in the offseason like a kid in a candy store. Every year he snatches up vets and young talents. The past few years he’s flipped a few players for late round draft picks, and I expect this trend to continue. 
 

I don’t see any immediate trades being pursued once the new league year starts, but I fully expect him to try and retain all of the guys you listed AND bring in more competition across the board. 

[thenorthremembers]

5 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I was just thinking how he has kind of gone unheralded this year. Dude has been nothing but rock solid and had been nothing but overlooked with Spain, Ford, and Winters getting the early reps and playing time. 
 

With the cap being tight next year he will be a very cheap starter at LG. So that begs the question, does that mean the highly likable Feliciano walks so Ford can slot at RG and resign Williams?

 

Do we sign both Feliciano and Williams for continuity and trade Ford? I find it to be an interesting discussion. 

You resign both Feliciano and Williams, and let Boettger and Ford compete for the LG spot.  Boettger is a RFA this year, so you get him back on a cheap contract and use whoever loses the competition as your swing guard.  To date Ford has shown absolutely no ability to play RT in the NFL.  If he cant beat out a guy who was on the practice squad at one point for the LG spot,  he sits his butt on the bench until his contract is up.

Edited January 20, 2021 by thenorthremembers

[Royale with Cheese]

I think we cut Morse for the cap savings.

 

Dawkins - Ford - Feliciano - Boettger - Williams 

[gonzo1105]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think we cut Morse for the cap savings.

 

Dawkins - Ford - Feliciano - Boettger - Williams 

 
I mean I don’t disagree I guess the problem I see is Ford has shown very little as a starting OL in this league and I don’t think you can cut Morse until your sure on Ford 

[atlbillsfan1975]

I don’t think you cut anyone on the line. Use Spain’s money and Winters to resign Feliciano. Nsekhe will be gone and cut Lee Smith, Yeldon’s contract get replaced with cheaper RB and apply some of that towards Williams. There should be enough money from other areas to keep the oline intact. 
Ike  has been serviceable but Ford for sure will get a shot to start. Hopefully Fords third season will be as good as Dawkins.

Edited January 20, 2021 by atlbillsfan1975

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 
I mean I don’t disagree I guess the problem I see is Ford has shown very little as a starting OL in this league and I don’t think you can cut Morse until your sure on Ford 

 

If not Ford, I'm sure they'll sign some other mid level salary guy for competition.  It's how we got Feliciano.  They'll make it a true competition at the guard spots.

[purple haze]

2 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I don’t think you cut anyone on the line. Use Spain’s money and Winters to resign Feliciano. Nsekhe will be gone and cut Lee Smith, Yeldon’s contract get replaced with cheaper RB and apply some of that towards Williams. There should be enough money from other areas to keep the oline intact. 

They like having a blocking tight end and none of who they have is better at it than Smith.  He’s not expensive.  Don’t count on him getting let go.

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 minutes ago, purple haze said:

They like having a blocking tight end and none of who they have is better at it than Smith.  He’s not expensive.  Don’t count on him getting let go.

Eh, he is over $3mil I believe. 

[elijah]

I don’t understand the sudden movement to get rid of John Brown & Mitch Morse for cap savings. All we have to resign are Feliciano, Daryl Williams & Matt Milano. 

 

Will be hard to figure it out with a tight cap, but there’s still draft picks to replace one of them if they have to walk. Whatever the answer, whether it be draft picks or restructures, I doubt the Bills will cut a quality starter in either Morse or Brown. 

 

As for the question, resign both Feliciano & Williams if possible. Let Ford start at the beginning of the year in a big prove it year, and pull him in favor of Boettger if need be. 

 

Dawkins - Feliciano - Morse - Ford - Williams with Boettger as an insurance policy if Ford doesn’t pan out should be just fine. 

[gonzo1105]

1 minute ago, elijah said:

I don’t understand the sudden movement to get rid of John Brown & Mitch Morse for cap savings. All we have to resign are Feliciano, Daryl Williams & Matt Milano. 

 

Will be hard to figure it out with a tight cap, but there’s still draft picks to replace one of them if they have to walk. Whatever the answer, whether it be draft picks or restructures, I doubt the Bills will cut a quality starter in either Morse or Brown. 

 

As for the question, resign both Feliciano & Williams if possible. Let Ford start at the beginning of the year in a big prove it year, and pull him in favor of Boettger if need be. 

 

Dawkins - Feliciano - Morse - Ford - Williams with Boettger as an insurance policy if Ford doesn’t pan out should be just fine. 

i don’t really see Morse, Brown I can def see. They are set obviously with Beasley and Diggs. I think the emergence of Gabe Davis , the signing of Kenny Stills, and still having the possibility of McKenzie and Hodgins in the wings could spell the end for Brown  

[uninja]

5 minutes ago, purple haze said:

They like having a blocking tight end and none of who they have is better at it than Smith.  He’s not expensive.  Don’t count on him getting let go.

unless something goes down Lee Smith is back next year. He’s not that expensive and does his job extremely well. He’s also good for at least 1-2 hilariously open TDs because no one thinks to cover him. 

[947]

No idea why it took multiple games for the coaching staff to see that Boettger is light years better than Winters, but I'm glad they did. The guy's been rock solid.

[elijah]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

i don’t really see Morse, Brown I can def see. They are set obviously with Beasley and Diggs. I think the emergence of Gabe Davis , the signing of Kenny Stills, and still having the possibility of McKenzie and Hodgins in the wings could spell the end for Brown  

I could see where fans are getting excited about Davis, but with only one year left on Brown’s contract I think Beane will honor it and see it through. Maybe a similar restructure to Tyler Kroft, ensuring Brown that he makes the roster but cutting away some of the cap hit with that promise. 

 

Davis has been flashy at times but not quite consistent, it’s easy to forget the deep threat that Brown provides and the 1,000 yard season he just had because he’s been battling injuries all year. Let’s not forget we’re ultimately trying to keep up with the Chiefs here and a 4th legitimate receiver can pay dividends when trying to score 35 points per game. 

[Punching Bag]

7 minutes ago, purple haze said:

They like having a blocking tight end and none of who they have is better at it than Smith.  He’s not expensive.  Don’t count on him getting let go.

 

And he has made a difference in a few games.  Certainly more than the poster who created a "Birthday thread" for him.

 

BTW Lee Smith has had Zer0 penalties this year; rest of TEs in NFL 186.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/position/tight-end?year=2020

 

 

 

[gobills404]

Here we go again with the "cut morse" takes. The dude is one of the best pass blocking centers in football and we only save $5 million by cutting him. I don't get it.

[Juice_32]

24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think we cut Morse for the cap savings.

 

Dawkins - Ford - Feliciano - Boettger - Williams 

Something tells me the run game would improve with those 5. Ford is definitely a guard, and could be a really good one.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

33 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

sign both Feliciano and Williams for continuity

Sounds good to me, but it takes two to tango.

[Punching Bag]

5 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

i don’t really see Morse, Brown I can def see. They are set obviously with Beasley and Diggs. I think the emergence of Gabe Davis , the signing of Kenny Stills, and still having the possibility of McKenzie and Hodgins in the wings could spell the end for Brown  

 

Kenny Stills may be just a comp pick for Bills. He has not even signed a contract for next year.

[Bferra13]

15 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Eh, he is over $3mil I believe. 

Helluva time we live in where Lee Smith gets 3 mil a year. Im not bashing him(okay maybe a little), i know he is a fine blocker. But dam...

[UConn James]

There’s no chance we can afford to resign Williams. He’s been a stud all year and shut down Watt & Bosa. He will get PAID and he absolutely deserves it. But having a third guy on the OL making $10-13M/year just isn’t feasible. Maybe especially since the refs are allowing holds unless they’re obvious & egregious, it would be easier filling that hole than an honest to god pass / edge rusher or re-upping Milano. We thank him for his service and wish him the best. It’ll either be Ford, draft pick, or another cheaper pick-up.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

What’s all this talk about Ford starting? He’s horrendous. He will be cut after next year and it would be sooner if it made sense contract-wise. I called it early with zay and I’m calling it with him. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Agree cut Morse. He is average at best. Move Feliciano to center for a year and draft a center for the next 5 years in the first three rounds.

Keep Brown. They have the best WR group in the NFL. Don't mess with it. They have a very good pass blocking OL but a below average run blocking line. Perfectly fine with making changes on the OL. And I'd rather have Williams for two or three more years at RT than Morse at center.

 

As for the OP, Ike is  servicable guard and appears to be playing better than Ford did. Ford was playing hurt at times though.  They are not getting rid of Ford or Ike. Let them compete. 

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

Can't cut anyone on this line although they all under perform on run blocking. Solid on pass rush, although leaves us one dimensional to some degree. I'd like  to see upgrades at G  and later C. T's are very weak as run blockers but can be covered with strong inside play.  

[QLBillsFan]

37 minutes ago, UConn James said:

There’s no chance we can afford to resign Williams. He’s been a stud all year and shut down Watt & Bosa. He will get PAID and he absolutely deserves it. But having a third guy on the OL making $10-13M/year just isn’t feasible. Maybe especially since the refs are allowing holds unless they’re obvious & egregious, it would be easier filling that hole than an honest to god pass / edge rusher or re-upping Milano. We thank him for his service and wish him the best. It’ll either be Ford, draft pick, or another cheaper pick-up.

Why don’t we resign Williams? If we simply don’t resign Murphy, TN, and Kroft. Plenty just from not those three.

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

i don’t really see Morse, Brown I can def see. They are set obviously with Beasley and Diggs. I think the emergence of Gabe Davis , the signing of Kenny Stills, and still having the possibility of McKenzie and Hodgins in the wings could spell the end for Brown  

John Brown makes the Bills better. Deep ball respect sets up underneath for other guys you mentioned. He will be back. 

[UConn James]

40 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Why don’t we resign Williams? If we simply don’t resign Murphy, TN, and Kroft. Plenty just from not those three.

And where does the Josh Allen money come from?

[MarlinTheMagician]

1 hour ago, gobills404 said:

Here we go again with the "cut morse" takes. The dude is one of the best pass blocking centers in football and we only save $5 million by cutting him. I don't get it.

Cutting Morse is not based on performance, it is risk management.  One more blow to the mellon and you flush that $5 million of cap space.  I don't mind if they don't cut him, but I wouldn't lose Milano, Mungo or Williams to keep him. 

[wppete]

Next year cut Morse give them money you save to Daryl Williams. Move Feliciano to Center. Line looks like this next year:

 

Dawkins - Boettger - Feliciano - Ford - Williams 

[QLBillsFan]

23 minutes ago, UConn James said:

And where does the Josh Allen money come from?

Thought the discussion was about Williams? JA certainly will impact the salary cap but think Bills will structure it in a way to best keep as many good players as possible. Morse, Yeldon, Winters, Norman added to Murphy, TN, and Kroft. Each player while part of great depth have an option to replace (again not ideal). This creates 30-40 M allowing Williams and potentially Milano to sign for average of 10M each. Won’t be easy but can be done. 

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I was just thinking how he has kind of gone unheralded this year. Dude has been nothing but rock solid and had been nothing but overlooked with Spain, Ford, and Winters getting the early reps and playing time. 
 

With the cap being tight next year he will be a very cheap starter at LG. So that begs the question, does that mean the highly likable Feliciano walks so Ford can slot at RG and resign Williams?

 

Do we sign both Feliciano and Williams for continuity and trade Ford? I find it to be an interesting discussion. 

I think Mongo, Milano and Williams can be signed because we don't need many FA acquisitions at all. 

Most SB teams don't.  

[Da webster guy]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

i don’t really see Morse, Brown I can def see. They are set obviously with Beasley and Diggs. I think the emergence of Gabe Davis , the signing of Kenny Stills, and still having the possibility of McKenzie and Hodgins in the wings could spell the end for Brown  

I disagree.  Brown is much too valuable, tons of chemistry with Josh, multiple 1000 yd NFL seasons, etc.  We are a spread it and sling it team now, we need 5 great receivers and Smoke is our #2.  If Diggs gets hurt then he's our clutch #1.

Obviously if one side gets screwy with money he's gone, but I think he stays.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think we cut Morse for the cap savings.

 

Dawkins - Ford - Feliciano - Boettger - Williams 

 

 

I think they cut Morse because they will be concerned that he's one bell ring from gone-for-good and because he is their biggest liability in the run game.

 

Morse is a very good pass blocker but with Morse not really being able to bang heads in the middle Feliciano is the better overall center.........and for that matter Feliciano is better AT center than he is at guard.

 

Ford isn't very good but IMO the best he's looked was as run blocker at RG next to Nsekhe in the preseason of 2018.

Edited January 20, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, UConn James said:

And where does the Josh Allen money come from?

 

Until we see the contract we won’t know, but my guess is similar Mahomes and Tre White - his new contract will be an extension to his current deal after they pick up the 5th year option.  Therefore; JA gets his money earlier, but it has almost no impact on his salary cap for 2021 or 2022 allowing the Bills to re-sign guys and plan for the hit.

 

That allowed Tre’s contract to be under 12 Mil this year and the cap hit to be under 15 mil until 2025 rather than the 19-20 mil per season of the extension.  The extension for Mahomes meant this year was under 6 million with only 24 million next year before the big money hits.

 

There is no reason the Bills can’t do something similar with an eye on the 2022 salary cap where it is expected to be new TV deals that dwarf the current deals and increase the Cap by 25-50% or more.

 

Then you are really looking at how do you fit those guys in for 1 year before the new cap and bigger deals start.

[bmur66]

Worry about next year, next year. We have a game to play Sunday!

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Eh, he is over $3mil I believe. 

 

Just over $2m next year. I think he likely gets cut because they need ever cent they can find to try and keep at least two of their three starting FAs (Williams, Feliciano and Milano) but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he is still here. They have been better since they started activating Smith mid season. 

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think they cut Morse because they will be concerned that he's one bell ring from gone-for-good and because he is their biggest liability in the run game.

 

Morse is a very good pass blocker but with Morse not really being able to bang heads in the middle Feliciano is the better overall center.........and for that matter Feliciano is better AT center than he is at guard.

 

Ford isn't very good but IMO the best he's looked was as run blocker at RG next to Nsekhe in the preseason of 2018.

 

I'd like to be able to bring Feliciano and Williams back without cutting anyone. But I prioritise both above Mitch Morse so if there has to be an odd man out on the oline it is him. 

[CSBill]

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think we cut Morse for the cap savings.

 

Dawkins - Ford - Feliciano - Boettger - Williams 

 

This is a real possibility; especially with Bates as insurance. If they do release Morse, I would also expect them to pick a lineman in the 2-4 rounds of the draft.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by CSBill

[Sad Fan]

8 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

And he has made a difference in a few games.  Certainly more than the poster who created a "Birthday thread" for him.

 

BTW Lee Smith has had Zer0 penalties this year; rest of TEs in NFL 186.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/position/tight-end?year=2020

 

 

 

I didn't know this ^^ really good to see as he struggled last year with penalties

[ProcessTruster]

9 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

He is the glue that holds the line together. 

 

Dawkins, WIlliams and Mungo have been stellar all year. But Morse and Winters were the weak link. Once he moved in alongside Morse, suddenly the middle of the OL has looked so so solid. He has made Morse better no doubt. Allen has had all day to throw.

 

I'd keep all of em. Continuity is good on the Oline. And Ford will have a role when he returns since the Oline is always vulnerable to injuries.

If the Bills break the bank on Josh now, pretty sure can't keep them all.   We need some cap space analysis on this board stat.   Does anyone know what Beane is up against if he has to spend $40m of his cap on Allen next year?   That is the real issue here.. cap management.   This will be by far the largest off season issue.. how much of this roster can be kept?